Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:53 AM - Wing Position (Jack)
2. 05:13 AM - Re: Wing Position (Don Emch)
3. 05:25 AM - Re: Re: Wing Position (Jack Phillips)
4. 05:28 AM - Re: Wing Position (Ben Charvet)
5. 06:09 AM - Re: Wing Position (Jack)
6. 06:45 AM - Re: Re: Wing Position (airlion)
7. 07:40 AM - Re: Wing Position (Greg Cardinal)
8. 09:01 AM - Re: Wing Position (aerocarjake)
9. 09:03 AM - Re: Wing Position (aerocarjake)
10. 09:32 AM - Re: Wing Position (Piet2112)
11. 09:47 AM - Re: Wing Position (Billy McCaskill)
12. 10:49 AM - Re: Re: Wing Position (Ryan Mueller)
13. 12:00 PM - Re: Re: Wing Position (Charles Campbell)
14. 03:24 PM - Re: Wing Position (helspersew@aol.com)
15. 03:28 PM - Re: Re: Wing Position (airlion)
16. 03:35 PM - Re: Wing position (helspersew@aol.com)
17. 05:36 PM - Florida sales tax (Jerry Dotson)
18. 06:23 PM - Re: Florida sales tax (Ben Charvet)
19. 07:07 PM - Re: Wing Position (Don Emch)
20. 07:17 PM - Re: Wing Position (Chris)
21. 09:15 PM - Re: Wing Position (aerocarjake)
Message 1
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For those flying I would like to enlist your help. I'm doing some
guestimating regarding control setup, weight and balance, etc. Could you
share your wing position, IE 3" aft vertical and also your fuselage size and
engine type? I'm also utilizing the recent articles in the Association
newsletter.
Thank you very much!
Jack
DSM
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Subject: | Re: Wing Position |
Hi Jack,
I built the long fuselage. Axle is 1" forward, cabanes are 2" longer, and wing
is positioned back 3 1/2", as per the Pietenpols' recommendations. I put the
tank in the nose, 14.5 gallons. If you keep the tail very light and use a small
tailwheel you shouldn't have any trouble with c.g.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336438#336438
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Subject: | Re: Wing Position |
Hi Jack,
Mine is the long fuselage. Cabanes are 2-1/2" longer and the wing is 3-3/4"
aft of vertical. Centersection tank, small (4") tailwheel). A65
Continental.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Emch
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 8:11 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Position
Hi Jack,
I built the long fuselage. Axle is 1" forward, cabanes are 2" longer, and
wing is positioned back 3 1/2", as per the Pietenpols' recommendations. I
put the tank in the nose, 14.5 gallons. If you keep the tail very light and
use a small tailwheel you shouldn't have any trouble with c.g.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336438#336438
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Subject: | Re: Wing Position |
Long fuselage, Continental A-65 with the mount extended 1.5 inches
forward, wings tilted aft 3.5-4 inches. I have a heavy Maule tailwheel
and weigh around 170, but with empty fuel (in the nose) I'm within the
envelope.
Ben Charvet
Titusville, Fl
On 4/9/2011 7:50 AM, Jack wrote:
>
> For those flying I would like to enlist your help. I'm doing some
> guestimating regarding control setup, weight and balance, etc. Could
> you share your wing position, IE 3"aftverticaland also your fuselage
> size and enginetype? I'm also utilizing the recent articles in the
> Association newsletter.
>
> Thank you very much!
>
> Jack
>
> DSM
>
Message 5
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Very helpful guys, I will note in a spreadsheet and share. Anyone else that
can contribute please do. Don is your engine an A65?
Thanks again!
Jack
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 6:51 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Position
For those flying I would like to enlist your help. I'm doing some
guestimating regarding control setup, weight and balance, etc. Could you
share your wing position, IE 3" aft vertical and also your fuselage size and
engine type? I'm also utilizing the recent articles in the Association
newsletter.
Thank you very much!
Jack
DSM
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Wing Position |
Hi Jack, Mine was the long fuse, corvair moved forward 1 in., wings tilted back
3.5 in. Taller cabanes, 36 in center section with 20 gal aluminum tank, 26 in
wide fuse, and Scott 2000 tailwheel, 600-6 wheels,and CGcame in within limits
for my 200 lb body. Of course all that is history now due to that tornado.
Gardiner Mason
----- Original Message ----
From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Sat, April 9, 2011 8:22:34 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Position
Hi Jack,
Mine is the long fuselage. Cabanes are 2-1/2" longer and the wing is 3-3/4"
aft of vertical. Centersection tank, small (4") tailwheel). A65
Continental.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Emch
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 8:11 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Position
Hi Jack,
I built the long fuselage. Axle is 1" forward, cabanes are 2" longer, and
wing is positioned back 3 1/2", as per the Pietenpols' recommendations. I
put the tank in the nose, 14.5 gallons. If you keep the tail very light and
use a small tailwheel you shouldn't have any trouble with c.g.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336438#336438
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Wing Position |
Wing PositionHi Jack,
NX18235 is a long fuselage with an A-65. Cabanes are 2" longer than
plans and the wing is 3 1/2" aft. Motor mount built to plans. 14 gallons
of fuel in the center section. Axle is 20" aft of the firewall. Tailskid
and no brakes.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 6:50 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Position
For those flying I would like to enlist your help. I'm doing some
guestimating regarding control setup, weight and balance, etc. Could
you share your wing position, IE 3" aft vertical and also your fuselage
size and engine type? I'm also utilizing the recent articles in the
Association newsletter.
Thank you very much!
Jack
DSM
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Wing Position |
Greg,
How did you tie in your 36" center section to the fuselage...? I am considering
a wider center section as well to hold more fuel for my thirsty ROTEC engine.......
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336457#336457
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Wing Position |
Ooops.... correction, Gardiner not Greg.
P.s. REALLY sad to see the Sun 'n fun situation......
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336458#336458
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Subject: | Re: Wing Position |
I know a wooden propeller looks great on the Piet, but I'm curious a metal
prop's efficiency is enough to counter act the extra weight of the prop.
The only reason I ask, is because the extra 12 or so pounds at the forward
most part of the airplane might help keep the c.g. within limits without
moving the wing. Cost might be the biggest disadvantage at three times
that of a wooden one though. Has anyone calculated how much ballast would
be required to keep the cabanes vertical using the a continental or corvair?
Curt Merdan
Flower Mound, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336461#336461
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Wing Position |
Curt, from what I know of the Corvair, I don't think that metal props are recommended
due to the increased loads imposed on the crankshaft. If you are even
considering a metal prop on a Corvair, I think that the 5th bearing is a MANDATORY
addition to the engine. As we all know, the Corvair cranks are susceptible
to breaking, and all of the incidents that I know about have happened when
using wood props which weigh much less than metal props. If you are intent on
keeping the cabanes vertical, then consider moving the firewall forward an inch
or two, building the engine mount a little bit longer, and definitely keep
the tail end as light as possible as you build.
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336462#336462
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Wing Position |
Agreed, metal props on a Corvair are verboten. Additionally, the weight
difference between a wood/composite prop and a metal prop is going to make a
minute difference as far as CG is concerned. As the articles in the BPA
newsletter have shown, moving the wing aft will get you the most bang for
the buck when correcting an aft CG situation. If you are close to acceptable
then adding an inch at the firewall or extending the motor mount can help,
but if you are a ways out then you are better off shifting the wing aft,
lest you end up with an ant-eater Piet....
On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 11:44 AM, Billy McCaskill <billmz@cox.net> wrote:
>
> Curt, from what I know of the Corvair, I don't think that metal props are
> recommended due to the increased loads imposed on the crankshaft. If you
> are even considering a metal prop on a Corvair, I think that the 5th bearing
> is a MANDATORY addition to the engine. As we all know, the Corvair cranks
> are susceptible to breaking, and all of the incidents that I know about have
> happened when using wood props which weigh much less than metal props. If
> you are intent on keeping the cabanes vertical, then consider moving the
> firewall forward an inch or two, building the engine mount a little bit
> longer, and definitely keep the tail end as light as possible as you build.
>
> --------
> Billy McCaskill
> Urbana, IL
> tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336462#336462
>
>
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Wing Position |
Jake, I would make the butt strap that joins the center section to the wing
panel the same except don't weld the other part of the assembly to it. Make
the vertical parts of the 'U' shaped piece square across the top and add
another AN4 bolt above the one that's already called for and assemble the
assembly directly above the top longeron of the fuselage. Clear as mud?
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 11:58 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Position
> <flight.jake@gmail.com>
>
> Greg,
>
> How did you tie in your 36" center section to the fuselage...? I am
> considering a wider center section as well to hold more fuel for my
> thirsty ROTEC engine.......
>
> --------
> Jake Schultz - curator,
> Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336457#336457
>
>
>
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Wing Position |
Hi Jack,
NX929DH. Short fuse, Straight up and down cabanes, Model A, pilot weight 15
0. Ended up nose heavy. I twisted the outboard LE of the horizontal stab do
wn to compensate. It worked but it still bugs me. As much as I hate to add
weight, I think at some point in time I will add (experiment) some weight i
nside the fuse at the tail end to try to solve the problem. "They" say that
an airplane balanced close to the aft CG range is a better flyer. I believ
e "them".
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN (but tomorrow I am driving up to Poplar Grove so I can fly my S
edan back down here. :O) ............I hate being without an airplane.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack <jack@textors.com>
Sent: Sat, Apr 9, 2011 6:53 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Position
For those flying I would like to enlist your help. I=99m doing some
guestimating regarding control setup, weight and balance, etc. Could you s
hare your wing position, IE 3=9D aft vertical and also your fuselage
size and engine type? I=99m also utilizing the recent articles in th
e Association newsletter.
Thank you very much!
Jack
DSM
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Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Wing Position |
The warp drive that I had on my corvair piet worked very well. WM Wynne say that
it is the most efficient. Gardiner
----- Original Message ----
From: Charles Campbell <cncampbell@windstream.net>
Sent: Sat, April 9, 2011 2:56:00 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Position
<cncampbell@windstream.net>
Jake, I would make the butt strap that joins the center section to the wing
panel the same except don't weld the other part of the assembly to it. Make
the vertical parts of the 'U' shaped piece square across the top and add
another AN4 bolt above the one that's already called for and assemble the
assembly directly above the top longeron of the fuselage. Clear as mud?
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 11:58 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Position
> <flight.jake@gmail.com>
>
> Greg,
>
> How did you tie in your 36" center section to the fuselage...? I am
> considering a wider center section as well to hold more fuel for my
> thirsty ROTEC engine.......
>
> --------
> Jake Schultz - curator,
> Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336457#336457
>
>
>
Message 16
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Subject: | RE: Wing position |
Hi Jack,
Just wanted to add that I placed my engine and mount to plans. Walt Bowe, f
rom California, (who built the same way) experienced the same nose-heavines
s.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
Message 17
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Subject: | Florida sales tax |
I registered my airplane with the FAA and guess what.....Florida Department of
Revenue sends me forms to fill out as to what I paid for the airplane. Then multiply
that by 6% and send it in. Life is never dull.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336486#336486
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: Florida sales tax |
Actually the State of Florida is very easy going on plans built
airplanes. All you owe tax on is what you bought out of state, since
you paid tax on that when you bought it, and they pretty much take your
word on that. I kept my Aircraft Spruce and Wicks invoices separate,
and the tax wasn't all that much. I think the rules are the same in
pretty much every state. At least you aren't building an RV-12, then
you'd owe tax on $60000. Another advantage to registering early is you
aren't finished buying stuff out of state, so you only pay tax on what
you've bought out of state so far.
Ben Charvet
Titusville, Fl
Beautiful flight in the Piet this morning, and took up a friend who has
always been terrified of flying in airliners. She had a ball!
On 4/9/2011 8:33 PM, Jerry Dotson wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jerry Dotson"<jdotson@centurylink.net>
>
> I registered my airplane with the FAA and guess what.....Florida Department of
Revenue sends me forms to fill out as to what I paid for the airplane. Then
multiply that by 6% and send it in. Life is never dull.
>
> --------
> Jerry Dotson
> 59 Daniel Johnson Rd
> Baker, FL 32531
>
> Started building NX510JD July, 2009
> wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
> using Lycoming O-235
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336486#336486
>
>
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
Message 19
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Subject: | Re: Wing Position |
Jack,
Yes I do have an A-65.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336490#336490
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This is some great information for us builders. Remember to include one more
important point of information, where is your CG at max weight.
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 4:51 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Position
For those flying I would like to enlist your help. I'm doing some
guestimating regarding control setup, weight and balance, etc. Could you
share your wing position, IE 3" aft vertical and also your fuselage size and
engine type? I'm also utilizing the recent articles in the Association
newsletter.
Thank you very much!
Jack
DSM
Message 21
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Subject: | Re: Wing Position |
Thanks Chuck.... I believe u understand...... that method is better than cabinet
struts that splay outward - way too Waco...(ha!)
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336499#336499
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