---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 04/09/11: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:53 AM - Wing Position (Jack) 2. 05:13 AM - Re: Wing Position (Don Emch) 3. 05:25 AM - Re: Re: Wing Position (Jack Phillips) 4. 05:28 AM - Re: Wing Position (Ben Charvet) 5. 06:09 AM - Re: Wing Position (Jack) 6. 06:45 AM - Re: Re: Wing Position (airlion) 7. 07:40 AM - Re: Wing Position (Greg Cardinal) 8. 09:01 AM - Re: Wing Position (aerocarjake) 9. 09:03 AM - Re: Wing Position (aerocarjake) 10. 09:32 AM - Re: Wing Position (Piet2112) 11. 09:47 AM - Re: Wing Position (Billy McCaskill) 12. 10:49 AM - Re: Re: Wing Position (Ryan Mueller) 13. 12:00 PM - Re: Re: Wing Position (Charles Campbell) 14. 03:24 PM - Re: Wing Position (helspersew@aol.com) 15. 03:28 PM - Re: Re: Wing Position (airlion) 16. 03:35 PM - Re: Wing position (helspersew@aol.com) 17. 05:36 PM - Florida sales tax (Jerry Dotson) 18. 06:23 PM - Re: Florida sales tax (Ben Charvet) 19. 07:07 PM - Re: Wing Position (Don Emch) 20. 07:17 PM - Re: Wing Position (Chris) 21. 09:15 PM - Re: Wing Position (aerocarjake) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:53:11 AM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Position For those flying I would like to enlist your help. I'm doing some guestimating regarding control setup, weight and balance, etc. Could you share your wing position, IE 3" aft vertical and also your fuselage size and engine type? I'm also utilizing the recent articles in the Association newsletter. Thank you very much! Jack DSM ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:13:35 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Position From: "Don Emch" Hi Jack, I built the long fuselage. Axle is 1" forward, cabanes are 2" longer, and wing is positioned back 3 1/2", as per the Pietenpols' recommendations. I put the tank in the nose, 14.5 gallons. If you keep the tail very light and use a small tailwheel you shouldn't have any trouble with c.g. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336438#336438 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:25:11 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Position Hi Jack, Mine is the long fuselage. Cabanes are 2-1/2" longer and the wing is 3-3/4" aft of vertical. Centersection tank, small (4") tailwheel). A65 Continental. Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Emch Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 8:11 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Position Hi Jack, I built the long fuselage. Axle is 1" forward, cabanes are 2" longer, and wing is positioned back 3 1/2", as per the Pietenpols' recommendations. I put the tank in the nose, 14.5 gallons. If you keep the tail very light and use a small tailwheel you shouldn't have any trouble with c.g. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336438#336438 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:28:42 AM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Position Long fuselage, Continental A-65 with the mount extended 1.5 inches forward, wings tilted aft 3.5-4 inches. I have a heavy Maule tailwheel and weigh around 170, but with empty fuel (in the nose) I'm within the envelope. Ben Charvet Titusville, Fl On 4/9/2011 7:50 AM, Jack wrote: > > For those flying I would like to enlist your help. I'm doing some > guestimating regarding control setup, weight and balance, etc. Could > you share your wing position, IE 3"aftverticaland also your fuselage > size and enginetype? I'm also utilizing the recent articles in the > Association newsletter. > > Thank you very much! > > Jack > > DSM > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:06 AM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing Position Very helpful guys, I will note in a spreadsheet and share. Anyone else that can contribute please do. Don is your engine an A65? Thanks again! Jack _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 6:51 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Position For those flying I would like to enlist your help. I'm doing some guestimating regarding control setup, weight and balance, etc. Could you share your wing position, IE 3" aft vertical and also your fuselage size and engine type? I'm also utilizing the recent articles in the Association newsletter. Thank you very much! Jack DSM ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:45:48 AM PST US From: airlion Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Position Hi Jack, Mine was the long fuse, corvair moved forward 1 in., wings tilted back 3.5 in. Taller cabanes, 36 in center section with 20 gal aluminum tank, 26 in wide fuse, and Scott 2000 tailwheel, 600-6 wheels,and CGcame in within limits for my 200 lb body. Of course all that is history now due to that tornado. Gardiner Mason ----- Original Message ---- From: Jack Phillips Sent: Sat, April 9, 2011 8:22:34 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Position Hi Jack, Mine is the long fuselage. Cabanes are 2-1/2" longer and the wing is 3-3/4" aft of vertical. Centersection tank, small (4") tailwheel). A65 Continental. Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Emch Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 8:11 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Position Hi Jack, I built the long fuselage. Axle is 1" forward, cabanes are 2" longer, and wing is positioned back 3 1/2", as per the Pietenpols' recommendations. I put the tank in the nose, 14.5 gallons. If you keep the tail very light and use a small tailwheel you shouldn't have any trouble with c.g. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336438#336438 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:40:05 AM PST US From: "Greg Cardinal" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Position Wing PositionHi Jack, NX18235 is a long fuselage with an A-65. Cabanes are 2" longer than plans and the wing is 3 1/2" aft. Motor mount built to plans. 14 gallons of fuel in the center section. Axle is 20" aft of the firewall. Tailskid and no brakes. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 6:50 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Position For those flying I would like to enlist your help. I'm doing some guestimating regarding control setup, weight and balance, etc. Could you share your wing position, IE 3" aft vertical and also your fuselage size and engine type? I'm also utilizing the recent articles in the Association newsletter. Thank you very much! Jack DSM ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:01:17 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Position From: "aerocarjake" Greg, How did you tie in your 36" center section to the fuselage...? I am considering a wider center section as well to hold more fuel for my thirsty ROTEC engine....... -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336457#336457 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:03:50 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Position From: "aerocarjake" Ooops.... correction, Gardiner not Greg. P.s. REALLY sad to see the Sun 'n fun situation...... -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336458#336458 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:32:31 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Position From: "Piet2112" I know a wooden propeller looks great on the Piet, but I'm curious a metal prop's efficiency is enough to counter act the extra weight of the prop. The only reason I ask, is because the extra 12 or so pounds at the forward most part of the airplane might help keep the c.g. within limits without moving the wing. Cost might be the biggest disadvantage at three times that of a wooden one though. Has anyone calculated how much ballast would be required to keep the cabanes vertical using the a continental or corvair? Curt Merdan Flower Mound, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336461#336461 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:47:08 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Position From: "Billy McCaskill" Curt, from what I know of the Corvair, I don't think that metal props are recommended due to the increased loads imposed on the crankshaft. If you are even considering a metal prop on a Corvair, I think that the 5th bearing is a MANDATORY addition to the engine. As we all know, the Corvair cranks are susceptible to breaking, and all of the incidents that I know about have happened when using wood props which weigh much less than metal props. If you are intent on keeping the cabanes vertical, then consider moving the firewall forward an inch or two, building the engine mount a little bit longer, and definitely keep the tail end as light as possible as you build. -------- Billy McCaskill Urbana, IL tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336462#336462 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:44 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Position From: Ryan Mueller Agreed, metal props on a Corvair are verboten. Additionally, the weight difference between a wood/composite prop and a metal prop is going to make a minute difference as far as CG is concerned. As the articles in the BPA newsletter have shown, moving the wing aft will get you the most bang for the buck when correcting an aft CG situation. If you are close to acceptable then adding an inch at the firewall or extending the motor mount can help, but if you are a ways out then you are better off shifting the wing aft, lest you end up with an ant-eater Piet.... On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 11:44 AM, Billy McCaskill wrote: > > Curt, from what I know of the Corvair, I don't think that metal props are > recommended due to the increased loads imposed on the crankshaft. If you > are even considering a metal prop on a Corvair, I think that the 5th bearing > is a MANDATORY addition to the engine. As we all know, the Corvair cranks > are susceptible to breaking, and all of the incidents that I know about have > happened when using wood props which weigh much less than metal props. If > you are intent on keeping the cabanes vertical, then consider moving the > firewall forward an inch or two, building the engine mount a little bit > longer, and definitely keep the tail end as light as possible as you build. > > -------- > Billy McCaskill > Urbana, IL > tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336462#336462 > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:00:13 PM PST US From: "Charles Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Position Jake, I would make the butt strap that joins the center section to the wing panel the same except don't weld the other part of the assembly to it. Make the vertical parts of the 'U' shaped piece square across the top and add another AN4 bolt above the one that's already called for and assemble the assembly directly above the top longeron of the fuselage. Clear as mud? Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "aerocarjake" Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 11:58 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Position > > > Greg, > > How did you tie in your 36" center section to the fuselage...? I am > considering a wider center section as well to hold more fuel for my > thirsty ROTEC engine....... > > -------- > Jake Schultz - curator, > Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336457#336457 > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:24:26 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Position From: helspersew@aol.com Hi Jack, NX929DH. Short fuse, Straight up and down cabanes, Model A, pilot weight 15 0. Ended up nose heavy. I twisted the outboard LE of the horizontal stab do wn to compensate. It worked but it still bugs me. As much as I hate to add weight, I think at some point in time I will add (experiment) some weight i nside the fuse at the tail end to try to solve the problem. "They" say that an airplane balanced close to the aft CG range is a better flyer. I believ e "them". Dan Helsper Puryear, TN (but tomorrow I am driving up to Poplar Grove so I can fly my S edan back down here. :O) ............I hate being without an airplane. -----Original Message----- From: Jack Sent: Sat, Apr 9, 2011 6:53 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Position For those flying I would like to enlist your help. I=99m doing some guestimating regarding control setup, weight and balance, etc. Could you s hare your wing position, IE 3=9D aft vertical and also your fuselage size and engine type? I=99m also utilizing the recent articles in th e Association newsletter. Thank you very much! Jack DSM -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:28:19 PM PST US From: airlion Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Position The warp drive that I had on my corvair piet worked very well. WM Wynne say that it is the most efficient. Gardiner ----- Original Message ---- From: Charles Campbell Sent: Sat, April 9, 2011 2:56:00 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Position Jake, I would make the butt strap that joins the center section to the wing panel the same except don't weld the other part of the assembly to it. Make the vertical parts of the 'U' shaped piece square across the top and add another AN4 bolt above the one that's already called for and assemble the assembly directly above the top longeron of the fuselage. Clear as mud? Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "aerocarjake" Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 11:58 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Position > > > Greg, > > How did you tie in your 36" center section to the fuselage...? I am > considering a wider center section as well to hold more fuel for my > thirsty ROTEC engine....... > > -------- > Jake Schultz - curator, > Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336457#336457 > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:35:49 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Wing position From: helspersew@aol.com Hi Jack, Just wanted to add that I placed my engine and mount to plans. Walt Bowe, f rom California, (who built the same way) experienced the same nose-heavines s. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:36:20 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Florida sales tax From: "Jerry Dotson" I registered my airplane with the FAA and guess what.....Florida Department of Revenue sends me forms to fill out as to what I paid for the airplane. Then multiply that by 6% and send it in. Life is never dull. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336486#336486 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:23:23 PM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Florida sales tax Actually the State of Florida is very easy going on plans built airplanes. All you owe tax on is what you bought out of state, since you paid tax on that when you bought it, and they pretty much take your word on that. I kept my Aircraft Spruce and Wicks invoices separate, and the tax wasn't all that much. I think the rules are the same in pretty much every state. At least you aren't building an RV-12, then you'd owe tax on $60000. Another advantage to registering early is you aren't finished buying stuff out of state, so you only pay tax on what you've bought out of state so far. Ben Charvet Titusville, Fl Beautiful flight in the Piet this morning, and took up a friend who has always been terrified of flying in airliners. She had a ball! On 4/9/2011 8:33 PM, Jerry Dotson wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jerry Dotson" > > I registered my airplane with the FAA and guess what.....Florida Department of Revenue sends me forms to fill out as to what I paid for the airplane. Then multiply that by 6% and send it in. Life is never dull. > > -------- > Jerry Dotson > 59 Daniel Johnson Rd > Baker, FL 32531 > > Started building NX510JD July, 2009 > wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling > using Lycoming O-235 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336486#336486 > > -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:07:27 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Position From: "Don Emch" Jack, Yes I do have an A-65. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336490#336490 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:17:43 PM PST US From: "Chris" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing Position This is some great information for us builders. Remember to include one more important point of information, where is your CG at max weight. Chris Sacramento, Ca Westcoastpiet.com _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 4:51 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Position For those flying I would like to enlist your help. I'm doing some guestimating regarding control setup, weight and balance, etc. Could you share your wing position, IE 3" aft vertical and also your fuselage size and engine type? I'm also utilizing the recent articles in the Association newsletter. Thank you very much! Jack DSM ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:15:47 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Position From: "aerocarjake" Thanks Chuck.... I believe u understand...... that method is better than cabinet struts that splay outward - way too Waco...(ha!) -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336499#336499 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.