Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:14 AM - Re: Re: Wing Position (Clif Dawson)
2. 04:57 AM - Re: Wing Position (Jack Phillips)
3. 07:04 AM - Re: Re: Wing Position (Rick Holland)
4. 12:08 PM - Speaking of Wing Sweep and CG (Michael Perez)
5. 01:24 PM - Re: Speaking of Wing Sweep and CG (Jack Phillips)
6. 01:39 PM - Re: Speaking of Wing Sweep and CG (Ryan Mueller)
7. 03:12 PM - Re: Speaking of Wing Sweep and CG (Jack Phillips)
8. 03:40 PM - Re: Speaking of Wing Sweep and CG (Ryan Mueller)
9. 03:53 PM - Nice Day FLying (Jack Phillips)
10. 04:02 PM - Tailwheel connection (KM Heide CPO/FAAOP)
11. 05:24 PM - Re: Tailwheel connection (Jerry Dotson)
12. 05:24 PM - Re: Florida sales tax (Jerry Dotson)
13. 05:41 PM - Stromberg carb. NA-S3 B (vagabondpa15)
14. 05:55 PM - Re: Re: Florida sales tax (KM Heide CPO/FAAOP)
15. 07:14 PM - Re: Nice Day FLying (aerocarjake)
16. 07:20 PM - Re: Re: Tailwheel connection (Ben Charvet)
17. 07:59 PM - Re: Re: Tailwheel connection (Ryan M)
18. 08:12 PM - Re: Tailwheel connection (kevinpurtee)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Position |
If they're splayed out it's not a Pietenpol! :-)
Clif
> <flight.jake@gmail.com>
>
> Thanks Chuck.... I believe u understand...... that method is better than
> cabinet struts that splay outward - way too Waco...(ha!)
Message 2
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For mine, at gross weight with pilot, passenger and full fuel my CG is
34.67% of the chord of the wing, or 21" aft of the leading edge of the wing.
Since my wing leading edge is 16.5" aft of the firewall, this puts my CG at
gross weight (90 lbs of fuel, 200 lbs of me and a 170 lb passenger) at 37.5"
aft of the firewall. My axle (straight axle, 21" wire wheels) is 19.5" aft
of the firewall. Empty weight is 739.5 lbs.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 10:14 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing Position
This is some great information for us builders. Remember to include one more
important point of information, where is your CG at max weight.
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 4:51 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Position
For those flying I would like to enlist your help. I'm doing some
guestimating regarding control setup, weight and balance, etc. Could you
share your wing position, IE 3" aft vertical and also your fuselage size and
engine type? I'm also utilizing the recent articles in the Association
newsletter.
Thank you very much!
Jack
DSM
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Position |
My 3' CC fittings.
On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 12:56 PM, Charles Campbell <cncampbell@windstream.net
> wrote:
> cncampbell@windstream.net>
>
> Jake, I would make the butt strap that joins the center section to the wing
> panel the same except don't weld the other part of the assembly to it. Make
> the vertical parts of the 'U' shaped piece square across the top and add
> another AN4 bolt above the one that's already called for and assemble the
> assembly directly above the top longeron of the fuselage. Clear as mud?
> Chuck
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake@gmail.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 11:58 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Position
>
>
>> flight.jake@gmail.com>
>>
>> Greg,
>>
>> How did you tie in your 36" center section to the fuselage...? I am
>> considering a wider center section as well to hold more fuel for my thirsty
>> ROTEC engine.......
>>
>> --------
>> Jake Schultz - curator,
>> Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336457#336457
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
NX6819Z
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 4
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| Subject: | Speaking of Wing Sweep and CG |
Jack P. mentioned his CG in terms of distance from a fixed point as well as % of
wing chord. Is there an ideal distance or % of chord that is best? I ask because
someone mentioned that "they" seem to think that a more aft CG flies better.
I would like to know if, idealy, there is a fixed point or fixed % of wing
chord that we should all be aiming for to get that "flies best" CG. I would assume
this would be best figured out as a % of wing chord, but I'm just guessing.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
Message 5
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| Subject: | Speaking of Wing Sweep and CG |
It depends on the airfoil, but generally the CG should be somewhere between
25% and 33% of the wing chord. Pietenpols seems to be able to handle a more
aft CG than other airfoils, but I would be very leery of flying one with a
CG any further aft than about 35%.
CG too far aft makes the airplane divergent in stability, meaning that if
the plane pitches up, it will tend to keep pitching further nose up, rather
than tending to ease the nose down, as a stable airplane would do. This can
quickly lead to loss of control and entering a non-recoverable spin. Not
good.
CG too far forward can make it impossible to flare for landing, or even to
get the nose up enough to climb. Also not good.
Before setting up your test program for your Pietenpol, I strongly recommend
reading the book "Flight Testing Homebuilt Aircraft", by Vaughan Askue.
http://www.actechbooks.com/products/act226/
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Perez
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2011 3:05 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Speaking of Wing Sweep and CG
Jack P. mentioned his CG in terms of distance from a fixed point as well as
% of wing chord. Is there an ideal distance or % of chord that is best? I
ask because someone mentioned that "they" seem to think that a more aft CG
flies better. I would like to know if, idealy, there is a fixed point or
fixed % of wing chord that we should all be aiming for to get that "flies
best" CG. I would assume this would be best figured out as a % of wing
chord, but I'm just guessing.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Speaking of Wing Sweep and CG |
The stated aft limit, per the Pietenpol family, is 20" back of the leading
edge....I want to say the forward limit was 15", but I can't find where I
read that at the moment...
Ryan
On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>wrot
e:
> It depends on the airfoil, but generally the CG should be somewhere
> between 25% and 33% of the wing chord. Pietenpols seems to be able to
> handle a more aft CG than other airfoils, but I would be very leery of
> flying one with a CG any further aft than about 35%.
>
>
> CG too far aft makes the airplane divergent in stability, meaning that if
> the plane pitches up, it will tend to keep pitching further nose up, rath
er
> than tending to ease the nose down, as a stable airplane would do. This
can
> quickly lead to loss of control and entering a non-recoverable spin. Not
> good.
>
>
> CG too far forward can make it impossible to flare for landing, or even
to
> get the nose up enough to climb. Also not good.
>
>
> Before setting up your test program for your Pietenpol, I strongly
> recommend reading the book =93Flight Testing Homebuilt Aircraft=94, by Va
ughan
> Askue. http://www.actechbooks.com/products/act226/
>
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94
>
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Michael Perez
> *Sent:* Sunday, April 10, 2011 3:05 PM
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Speaking of Wing Sweep and CG
>
>
> Jack P. mentioned his CG in terms of distance from a fixed point as well
as
> % of wing chord. Is there an ideal distance or % of chord that is best? I
> ask because someone mentioned that "they" seem to think that a more aft C
G
> flies better. I would like to know if, idealy, there is a fixed point or
> fixed % of wing chord that we should all be aiming for to get that "flies
> best" CG. I would assume this would be best figured out as a % of wing
> chord, but I'm just guessing.
>
> Michael Perez
> Karetaker Aero
> www.karetakeraero.com
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Speaking of Wing Sweep and CG |
20" aft, with a 60" chord (my chord is 60.5" due to the type of trailing
edge I put on), would be 33%. 15" would be 25%. Those are pretty typical
numbers for most airfoils.
With my CG at 34.6% of chord, I would definitely not try to spin mine, but
it flies well, with no divergent qualities. Stalls are straightforward,
with a fairly sharp break (due to the tight radius of the leading edge on
the Pietenpol airfoil) and a slight tendency to drop a wing. It is stable
in pitch.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Mueller
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2011 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Speaking of Wing Sweep and CG
The stated aft limit, per the Pietenpol family, is 20" back of the leading
edge....I want to say the forward limit was 15", but I can't find where I
read that at the moment...
Ryan
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Speaking of Wing Sweep and CG |
Too bad you didn't use the Riblett...you could lift an elephant AND go
100mph with your hair on fire.... ;)
Ryan
do not archive
On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 5:09 PM, Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>wrot
e:
> 20=94 aft, with a 60=94 chord (my chord is 60.5=94 due to the type of tr
ailing
> edge I put on), would be 33%. 15=94 would be 25%. Those are pretty typi
cal
> numbers for most airfoils.
>
>
> With my CG at 34.6% of chord, I would definitely not try to spin mine, bu
t
> it flies well, with no divergent qualities. Stalls are straightforward,
> with a fairly sharp break (due to the tight radius of the leading edge on
> the Pietenpol airfoil) and a slight tendency to drop a wing. It is stabl
e
> in pitch.
>
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94
>
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Ryan Mueller
> *Sent:* Sunday, April 10, 2011 4:29 PM
>
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Speaking of Wing Sweep and CG
>
>
> The stated aft limit, per the Pietenpol family, is 20" back of the leadin
g
> edge....I want to say the forward limit was 15", but I can't find where I
> read that at the moment...
>
>
> Ryan
>
> *
>
===========
>
===========
===========
===========
>
> *
>
>
Message 9
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This afternoon was just about perfect. Temperature 74=B0, no wind, air
smooth
as glass. I took the Pietenpol up over Smith Mountain Lake, in the Blue
Ridge Mountains of Virginia, and just tooled around, 400=92 above the
water,
making smoke circles. Waved at a few folks out in boats on the lake and
just had a blast. This is what flying a Pietenpol is all about. I just
wish there were more days like this one.
Since there were a few folks at the FBO right beside the runway, I
naturally
bounced the landing, but that=92s OK. At least I was flying in an open
cockpit ' they were about to climb into a Cessna 172.
Do Not Archive
Jack Phillips
NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
Message 10
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| Subject: | Tailwheel connection |
Pieters:
-
I am seeking help in locating my pulleys for the rudder control and tail wh
eel control cables.
-
Does anyone have photos to-visualize the location and attachment for thes
e? I am not understanding if I need to cable splice or run two cable to for
the set-up. Any help appreciated.
-
KMHeide
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Tailwheel connection |
Mine has yet to fly but I have only wooden guides on my rudder cables. The
tail wheel cables are attached to the rudder cables about 8" behind the seat using
Nicopress sleeves.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336579#336579
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Florida sales tax |
Thanks Ben. I will start the process tomorrow I guess. I just thought it was ironic
in that it has not flown yet.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336580#336580
Message 13
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| Subject: | Stromberg carb. NA-S3 B |
I have a Vagabond PA-15 with C-85-12 using a Stromberg carburetor.
I need to know all the set up spec. such as float drop dim. any SB bulletins
& AD if any. Also any tips on how to..........
Thanking you all in advance.... Dave H
--------
Dave Harmon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336583#336583
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Florida sales tax |
Jerry,
-
Don't worry, in Minnesota we tax the air your plane flies in if-your stay
-in Minnesota is longer than 30 days!....and you thought ait was free....
.- yea...(laughing)
-
KMHeide
-
--- On Sun, 4/10/11, Jerry Dotson <jdotson@centurylink.net> wrote:
From: Jerry Dotson <jdotson@centurylink.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Florida sales tax
et>
Thanks Ben. I will start the process tomorrow I guess. I just thought it wa
s ironic in that it has not flown yet.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building- NX510JD- July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336580#336580
le, List Admin.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Nice Day FLying |
They probably bounced their landings too... distracted by the beautiful vintage
pietenpol...!
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336588#336588
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Tailwheel connection |
I attached my tailwheel cables like Jerry, but I added pulleys towards
the rear so the tailwheel cables exit the bottom of the fuselage. I
made some fairleads out of some micardis that I found in an old cabinet
I inherited from my grandfather who's been dead for 30 years, which
works well and ads a little more nostalgia to the airplane. He was a
pilot back in the late 30's.
Ben Charvet
Titusville, Fl
On 4/10/2011 8:21 PM, Jerry Dotson wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jerry Dotson"<jdotson@centurylink.net>
>
> Mine has yet to fly but I have only wooden guides on my rudder cables. The
> tail wheel cables are attached to the rudder cables about 8" behind the seat
using Nicopress sleeves.
>
> --------
> Jerry Dotson
> 59 Daniel Johnson Rd
> Baker, FL 32531
>
> Started building NX510JD July, 2009
> wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
> using Lycoming O-235
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336579#336579
>
>
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Tailwheel connection |
Micardis (telmisartan) is used to treat high blood pressure (hypertension)?
________________________________
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet@gmail.com>
Sent: Sun, April 10, 2011 10:16:36 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tailwheel connection
I attached my tailwheel cables like Jerry, but I added pulleys towards
the rear so the tailwheel cables exit the bottom of the fuselage. I
made some fairleads out of some micardis that I found in an old cabinet
I inherited from my grandfather who's been dead for 30 years, which
works well and ads a little more nostalgia to the airplane. He was a
pilot back in the late 30's.
Ben Charvet
Titusville, Fl
On 4/10/2011 8:21 PM, Jerry Dotson wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jerry Dotson"<jdotson@centurylink.net>
>
> Mine has yet to fly but I have only wooden guides on my rudder cables. The
> tail wheel cables are attached to the rudder cables about 8" behind the seat
>using Nicopress sleeves.
>
> --------
> Jerry Dotson
> 59 Daniel Johnson Rd
> Baker, FL 32531
>
> Started building NX510JD July, 2009
> wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
> using Lycoming O-235
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336579#336579
>
>
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Tailwheel connection |
Ironic that he's a PhD pharmacist....
do not archive
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336593#336593
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