---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 04/10/11: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:14 AM - Re: Re: Wing Position (Clif Dawson) 2. 04:57 AM - Re: Wing Position (Jack Phillips) 3. 07:04 AM - Re: Re: Wing Position (Rick Holland) 4. 12:08 PM - Speaking of Wing Sweep and CG (Michael Perez) 5. 01:24 PM - Re: Speaking of Wing Sweep and CG (Jack Phillips) 6. 01:39 PM - Re: Speaking of Wing Sweep and CG (Ryan Mueller) 7. 03:12 PM - Re: Speaking of Wing Sweep and CG (Jack Phillips) 8. 03:40 PM - Re: Speaking of Wing Sweep and CG (Ryan Mueller) 9. 03:53 PM - Nice Day FLying (Jack Phillips) 10. 04:02 PM - Tailwheel connection (KM Heide CPO/FAAOP) 11. 05:24 PM - Re: Tailwheel connection (Jerry Dotson) 12. 05:24 PM - Re: Florida sales tax (Jerry Dotson) 13. 05:41 PM - Stromberg carb. NA-S3 B (vagabondpa15) 14. 05:55 PM - Re: Re: Florida sales tax (KM Heide CPO/FAAOP) 15. 07:14 PM - Re: Nice Day FLying (aerocarjake) 16. 07:20 PM - Re: Re: Tailwheel connection (Ben Charvet) 17. 07:59 PM - Re: Re: Tailwheel connection (Ryan M) 18. 08:12 PM - Re: Tailwheel connection (kevinpurtee) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:14:57 AM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Position If they're splayed out it's not a Pietenpol! :-) Clif > > > Thanks Chuck.... I believe u understand...... that method is better than > cabinet struts that splay outward - way too Waco...(ha!) ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:57:19 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing Position For mine, at gross weight with pilot, passenger and full fuel my CG is 34.67% of the chord of the wing, or 21" aft of the leading edge of the wing. Since my wing leading edge is 16.5" aft of the firewall, this puts my CG at gross weight (90 lbs of fuel, 200 lbs of me and a 170 lb passenger) at 37.5" aft of the firewall. My axle (straight axle, 21" wire wheels) is 19.5" aft of the firewall. Empty weight is 739.5 lbs. Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 10:14 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing Position This is some great information for us builders. Remember to include one more important point of information, where is your CG at max weight. Chris Sacramento, Ca Westcoastpiet.com _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 4:51 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Position For those flying I would like to enlist your help. I'm doing some guestimating regarding control setup, weight and balance, etc. Could you share your wing position, IE 3" aft vertical and also your fuselage size and engine type? I'm also utilizing the recent articles in the Association newsletter. Thank you very much! Jack DSM href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:04:02 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Position From: Rick Holland My 3' CC fittings. On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 12:56 PM, Charles Campbell wrote: > cncampbell@windstream.net> > > Jake, I would make the butt strap that joins the center section to the wing > panel the same except don't weld the other part of the assembly to it. Make > the vertical parts of the 'U' shaped piece square across the top and add > another AN4 bolt above the one that's already called for and assemble the > assembly directly above the top longeron of the fuselage. Clear as mud? > Chuck > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "aerocarjake" > To: > Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 11:58 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Position > > >> flight.jake@gmail.com> >> >> Greg, >> >> How did you tie in your 36" center section to the fuselage...? I am >> considering a wider center section as well to hold more fuel for my thirsty >> ROTEC engine....... >> >> -------- >> Jake Schultz - curator, >> Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) >> >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336457#336457 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado NX6819Z "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:08:22 PM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Pietenpol-List: Speaking of Wing Sweep and CG Jack P. mentioned his CG in terms of distance from a fixed point as well as % of wing chord. Is there an ideal distance or % of chord that is best? I ask because someone mentioned that "they" seem to think that a more aft CG flies better. I would like to know if, idealy, there is a fixed point or fixed % of wing chord that we should all be aiming for to get that "flies best" CG. I would assume this would be best figured out as a % of wing chord, but I'm just guessing. Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:24:45 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Speaking of Wing Sweep and CG It depends on the airfoil, but generally the CG should be somewhere between 25% and 33% of the wing chord. Pietenpols seems to be able to handle a more aft CG than other airfoils, but I would be very leery of flying one with a CG any further aft than about 35%. CG too far aft makes the airplane divergent in stability, meaning that if the plane pitches up, it will tend to keep pitching further nose up, rather than tending to ease the nose down, as a stable airplane would do. This can quickly lead to loss of control and entering a non-recoverable spin. Not good. CG too far forward can make it impossible to flare for landing, or even to get the nose up enough to climb. Also not good. Before setting up your test program for your Pietenpol, I strongly recommend reading the book "Flight Testing Homebuilt Aircraft", by Vaughan Askue. http://www.actechbooks.com/products/act226/ Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Perez Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2011 3:05 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Speaking of Wing Sweep and CG Jack P. mentioned his CG in terms of distance from a fixed point as well as % of wing chord. Is there an ideal distance or % of chord that is best? I ask because someone mentioned that "they" seem to think that a more aft CG flies better. I would like to know if, idealy, there is a fixed point or fixed % of wing chord that we should all be aiming for to get that "flies best" CG. I would assume this would be best figured out as a % of wing chord, but I'm just guessing. Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:39:49 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Speaking of Wing Sweep and CG From: Ryan Mueller The stated aft limit, per the Pietenpol family, is 20" back of the leading edge....I want to say the forward limit was 15", but I can't find where I read that at the moment... Ryan On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Jack Phillips wrot e: > It depends on the airfoil, but generally the CG should be somewhere > between 25% and 33% of the wing chord. Pietenpols seems to be able to > handle a more aft CG than other airfoils, but I would be very leery of > flying one with a CG any further aft than about 35%. > > > CG too far aft makes the airplane divergent in stability, meaning that if > the plane pitches up, it will tend to keep pitching further nose up, rath er > than tending to ease the nose down, as a stable airplane would do. This can > quickly lead to loss of control and entering a non-recoverable spin. Not > good. > > > CG too far forward can make it impossible to flare for landing, or even to > get the nose up enough to climb. Also not good. > > > Before setting up your test program for your Pietenpol, I strongly > recommend reading the book =93Flight Testing Homebuilt Aircraft=94, by Va ughan > Askue. http://www.actechbooks.com/products/act226/ > > > Jack Phillips > > NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94 > > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Michael Perez > *Sent:* Sunday, April 10, 2011 3:05 PM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Speaking of Wing Sweep and CG > > > Jack P. mentioned his CG in terms of distance from a fixed point as well as > % of wing chord. Is there an ideal distance or % of chord that is best? I > ask because someone mentioned that "they" seem to think that a more aft C G > flies better. I would like to know if, idealy, there is a fixed point or > fixed % of wing chord that we should all be aiming for to get that "flies > best" CG. I would assume this would be best figured out as a % of wing > chord, but I'm just guessing. > > Michael Perez > Karetaker Aero > www.karetakeraero.com > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List* > > ** > > ** > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > * * > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:12:08 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Speaking of Wing Sweep and CG 20" aft, with a 60" chord (my chord is 60.5" due to the type of trailing edge I put on), would be 33%. 15" would be 25%. Those are pretty typical numbers for most airfoils. With my CG at 34.6% of chord, I would definitely not try to spin mine, but it flies well, with no divergent qualities. Stalls are straightforward, with a fairly sharp break (due to the tight radius of the leading edge on the Pietenpol airfoil) and a slight tendency to drop a wing. It is stable in pitch. Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Mueller Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2011 4:29 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Speaking of Wing Sweep and CG The stated aft limit, per the Pietenpol family, is 20" back of the leading edge....I want to say the forward limit was 15", but I can't find where I read that at the moment... Ryan ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:40:21 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Speaking of Wing Sweep and CG From: Ryan Mueller Too bad you didn't use the Riblett...you could lift an elephant AND go 100mph with your hair on fire.... ;) Ryan do not archive On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 5:09 PM, Jack Phillips wrot e: > 20=94 aft, with a 60=94 chord (my chord is 60.5=94 due to the type of tr ailing > edge I put on), would be 33%. 15=94 would be 25%. Those are pretty typi cal > numbers for most airfoils. > > > With my CG at 34.6% of chord, I would definitely not try to spin mine, bu t > it flies well, with no divergent qualities. Stalls are straightforward, > with a fairly sharp break (due to the tight radius of the leading edge on > the Pietenpol airfoil) and a slight tendency to drop a wing. It is stabl e > in pitch. > > > Jack Phillips > > NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94 > > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Ryan Mueller > *Sent:* Sunday, April 10, 2011 4:29 PM > > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Speaking of Wing Sweep and CG > > > The stated aft limit, per the Pietenpol family, is 20" back of the leadin g > edge....I want to say the forward limit was 15", but I can't find where I > read that at the moment... > > > Ryan > > * > =========== > =========== =========== =========== > > * > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:53:33 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Nice Day FLying This afternoon was just about perfect. Temperature 74=B0, no wind, air smooth as glass. I took the Pietenpol up over Smith Mountain Lake, in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia, and just tooled around, 400=92 above the water, making smoke circles. Waved at a few folks out in boats on the lake and just had a blast. This is what flying a Pietenpol is all about. I just wish there were more days like this one. Since there were a few folks at the FBO right beside the runway, I naturally bounced the landing, but that=92s OK. At least I was flying in an open cockpit ' they were about to climb into a Cessna 172. Do Not Archive Jack Phillips NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94 Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:02:32 PM PST US From: KM Heide CPO/FAAOP Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel connection Pieters: - I am seeking help in locating my pulleys for the rudder control and tail wh eel control cables. - Does anyone have photos to-visualize the location and attachment for thes e? I am not understanding if I need to cable splice or run two cable to for the set-up. Any help appreciated. - KMHeide ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:24:18 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tailwheel connection From: "Jerry Dotson" Mine has yet to fly but I have only wooden guides on my rudder cables. The tail wheel cables are attached to the rudder cables about 8" behind the seat using Nicopress sleeves. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336579#336579 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:24:22 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Florida sales tax From: "Jerry Dotson" Thanks Ben. I will start the process tomorrow I guess. I just thought it was ironic in that it has not flown yet. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336580#336580 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:41:13 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stromberg carb. NA-S3 B From: "vagabondpa15" I have a Vagabond PA-15 with C-85-12 using a Stromberg carburetor. I need to know all the set up spec. such as float drop dim. any SB bulletins & AD if any. Also any tips on how to.......... Thanking you all in advance.... Dave H -------- Dave Harmon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336583#336583 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:55:59 PM PST US From: KM Heide CPO/FAAOP Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Florida sales tax Jerry, - Don't worry, in Minnesota we tax the air your plane flies in if-your stay -in Minnesota is longer than 30 days!....and you thought ait was free.... .- yea...(laughing) - KMHeide - --- On Sun, 4/10/11, Jerry Dotson wrote: From: Jerry Dotson Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Florida sales tax et> Thanks Ben. I will start the process tomorrow I guess. I just thought it wa s ironic in that it has not flown yet. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building- NX510JD- July, 2009 wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336580#336580 le, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:14:56 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Nice Day FLying From: "aerocarjake" They probably bounced their landings too... distracted by the beautiful vintage pietenpol...! -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336588#336588 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:20:17 PM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tailwheel connection I attached my tailwheel cables like Jerry, but I added pulleys towards the rear so the tailwheel cables exit the bottom of the fuselage. I made some fairleads out of some micardis that I found in an old cabinet I inherited from my grandfather who's been dead for 30 years, which works well and ads a little more nostalgia to the airplane. He was a pilot back in the late 30's. Ben Charvet Titusville, Fl On 4/10/2011 8:21 PM, Jerry Dotson wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jerry Dotson" > > Mine has yet to fly but I have only wooden guides on my rudder cables. The > tail wheel cables are attached to the rudder cables about 8" behind the seat using Nicopress sleeves. > > -------- > Jerry Dotson > 59 Daniel Johnson Rd > Baker, FL 32531 > > Started building NX510JD July, 2009 > wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling > using Lycoming O-235 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336579#336579 > > -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:59:15 PM PST US From: Ryan M Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tailwheel connection Micardis (telmisartan) is used to treat high blood pressure (hypertension)? ________________________________ From: Ben Charvet Sent: Sun, April 10, 2011 10:16:36 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tailwheel connection I attached my tailwheel cables like Jerry, but I added pulleys towards the rear so the tailwheel cables exit the bottom of the fuselage. I made some fairleads out of some micardis that I found in an old cabinet I inherited from my grandfather who's been dead for 30 years, which works well and ads a little more nostalgia to the airplane. He was a pilot back in the late 30's. Ben Charvet Titusville, Fl On 4/10/2011 8:21 PM, Jerry Dotson wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jerry Dotson" > > Mine has yet to fly but I have only wooden guides on my rudder cables. The > tail wheel cables are attached to the rudder cables about 8" behind the seat >using Nicopress sleeves. > > -------- > Jerry Dotson > 59 Daniel Johnson Rd > Baker, FL 32531 > > Started building NX510JD July, 2009 > wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling > using Lycoming O-235 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336579#336579 > > -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:12:52 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tailwheel connection From: "kevinpurtee" Ironic that he's a PhD pharmacist.... do not archive -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336593#336593 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.