---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 05/12/11: 25 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:25 AM - look what I found (Clif Dawson) 2. 03:46 AM - Re: bellcrank geometry (Jack) 3. 05:57 AM - Re: My Instrument Panel Layout (bubbleboy) 4. 06:42 AM - Re: Dave's Pietenpol Airworthiness Inspection on the 17th (AircamperN11MS) 5. 07:34 AM - Re: bellcrank geometry (bender) 6. 08:09 AM - Re: Re: bellcrank geometry (Michael Perez) 7. 08:23 AM - Re: Re: Dave's Pietenpol Airworthiness Inspection on the 17th (Ken Bickers) 8. 08:32 AM - Re: Re: Dave's Pietenpol Airworthiness Inspection on the 17th (Dan Yocum) 9. 08:35 AM - Re: Re: Dave's W&B (Dan Yocum) 10. 08:38 AM - Re: Re: Dave's Pietenpol Airworthiness Inspection on the 17th (Ryan Mueller) 11. 08:43 AM - Re: bellcrank geometry (bender) 12. 08:59 AM - Re: Dave's Pietenpol Airworthiness Inspection on the 17th (AircamperN11MS) 13. 09:07 AM - Re: Dave's Pietenpol Airworthiness Inspection on the 17th (AircamperN11MS) 14. 09:10 AM - Re: Re: Dave's W&B (KM Heide CPO/FAAOP) 15. 09:22 AM - Re: Dave's Pietenpol Airworthiness Inspection on the 17th (kevinpurtee) 16. 09:39 AM - She's got legs - again (TOM STINEMETZE) 17. 09:58 AM - Re: Re: bellcrank geometry (Jack) 18. 10:09 AM - Re: She's got legs - again (Jack) 19. 10:27 AM - Re: She's got legs - again (Ryan Mueller) 20. 12:40 PM - Where is the Belize Fisherman Ray Axillou when you need him ?? (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]) 21. 12:57 PM - Re: Where is the Belize Fisherman Ray Axillou when you need him ?? (John Hofmann) 22. 02:11 PM - Re: Where is the Belize Fisherman Ray Axillou when you need him (K5YAC) 23. 05:34 PM - Re: West Coast Piet gathering...darn! (Darrel Jones) 24. 07:15 PM - Re: West Coast Piet gathering...darn! (Jim Boyer) 25. 07:27 PM - Re: Re: Where is the Belize Fisherman Ray Axillou when you need him (Clif Dawson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:25:27 AM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Pietenpol-List: look what I found ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:46:39 AM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: bellcrank geometry Jeff, It's my understanding that some slack is good. There is an alternative bellcrank design by Ken Perkins, you can see a picture here http://textors.com/DSCN4226_640x480.jpg not far enough along to say it works but Ken is a fantastic builder. His contact info, Kenandvernaperkins@sbcglobal.net 913-764-6949 -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bender Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 3:08 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: bellcrank geometry Ok .... i'm dying here i've read the post about the slack in the elevator cables... i'm confused the cables from the control stick to the bellcrank loose tension as i move the stick fore and aft.... pressure in the middle and way slack at the up and down positions...i don't get it... this can't be right i can see where a tube with a rod end is nice i thought this was going to be the easy part jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339593#339593 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:57:30 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: My Instrument Panel Layout From: "bubbleboy" Thank you guys! I didnt think about not being able to read the smaller instruments. I guess I will check once the fuse is assembled and then make the adjustments. Can anyone give me an idea of the distance from the panel to where the aileron cables run through the back? Scotty -------- Scotty Tamworth, Australia Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper www.scottyspietenpol.com Rudder, Vert stab, Elevators and 22 Ribs built... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339670#339670 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:42:53 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dave's Pietenpol Airworthiness Inspection on the 17th From: "AircamperN11MS" Congratulations Dave, I have one item I think you should consider. I was looking at you W&B and noticed that you have the gross weight at 1250 pounds. If you were to lower it to 1230 or lower before your inspection it would then be able to be flown by a Sport Pilot. Once it gets its AW with 1250 documented it cannot be changed. As the builder you can set the gross weight anywhere you would like. My two cents. Good luck and enjoy every flight. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339673#339673 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:36 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: bellcrank geometry From: "bender" i understand the aft cable issue... as i move the stick...no cables aft of the bellcrank the cables go from loose to tight to loose again my problem is up front... i see from mr Cuys photos that 2 inches of travel at the location of his stop is all thats required and that would help but i'm wondering if the bellcrank going overcenter is the problem i really thought this closed loop in the front was a no brainer now i feel like i'm missing a brain myself jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339676#339676 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/cable_205.jpg ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:09:35 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: bellcrank geometry I use the push/pull tube setup on my plane so I can't help you with the cab le slack/tight problem. However, it would be wise to position the bellcrank to be vertical when the control stick is neutral. This will give you the s ame stick "feel" when you move the stick from neutral forward and neutral a ft. Also, it will give the controls the same amount a travel in both direct ions. (which if needed can be limited by stops.) You will find the same cable issues with the rudder. Michael Perez =0AKaretaker Aero =0Awww.karetakeraero.com --- On Thu, 5/12/11, bender wrote: From: bender Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: bellcrank geometry > i understand the aft cable issue... as i move the stick...no cables aft of the bellcrank the cables go from loo se to tight to loose again my problem is up front... i see from mr Cuys photos that 2 inches of travel at the location of his stop is all thats required and that would help but i'm wondering if the bellcrank going overcenter is the problem i really thought this closed loop in the front was a no brainer now i feel like i'm missing a brain myself jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339676#339676 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/cable_205.jpg le, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:23:14 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dave's Pietenpol Airworthiness Inspection on the 17th From: Ken Bickers Scott, The information I've seen is that the gross weight limit for airplanes to be sport pilot eligible is 1320 lbs. Has that number been changed? Ken On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 7:40 AM, AircamperN11MS wrote: > > Congratulations Dave, > > I have one item I think you should consider. I was looking at you W&B and noticed that you have the gross weight at 1250 pounds. If you were to lower it to 1230 or lower before your inspection it would then be able to be flown by a Sport Pilot. Once it gets its AW with 1250 documented it cannot be changed. As the builder you can set the gross weight anywhere you would like. > > My two cents. Good luck and enjoy every flight. > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339673#339673 > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:32:23 AM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dave's Pietenpol Airworthiness Inspection on the 17th Scott, I hear there's a dyslexia for cure found! News good, us for! The definition of light sport aircraft is found in FAR 1.1 Light-sport aircraft means an aircraft, other than a helicopter or powered-lift that, since its original certification, has continued to meet the following: (1) A maximum takeoff weight of not more than (i) 1,320 pounds (600 kilograms) for aircraft not intended for operation on water; or (ii) 1,430 pounds (650 kilograms) for an aircraft intended for operation on water. Dave's OK with his weight spec'd at 1250. Dan On 05/12/2011 08:40 AM, AircamperN11MS wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "AircamperN11MS" > > Congratulations Dave, > > I have one item I think you should consider. I was looking at you W&B and noticed that you have the gross weight at 1250 pounds. If you were to lower it to 1230 or lower before your inspection it would then be able to be flown by a Sport Pilot. Once it gets its AW with 1250 documented it cannot be changed. As the builder you can set the gross weight anywhere you would like. > > My two cents. Good luck and enjoy every flight. > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339673#339673 > > -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:35:23 AM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dave's W&B And N8031 has a cut-out which works pretty well, too. Dan On 05/11/2011 10:45 PM, Clif Dawson wrote: > You want flop? I geeve you flop! > > I'm pretty agile, now. Later, down the avenue of > years? Probably not. I don't want to have to give > up Piet flyin' because I can no longer get in the > silly thing! > > Clif :-) > >> Dave, >> I just realized - you don't have a center section flop or a cut-out. >> No wonder it's hard to get in and out! >> Cheers, >> Dan -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:38:12 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dave's Pietenpol Airworthiness Inspection on the 17th From: Ryan Mueller No, don't believe it's changed: http://www.sportpilot.org/questions/afmviewfaq.asp?faqid=415 On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 10:20 AM, Ken Bickers wrote: > > Scott, > > The information I've seen is that the gross weight limit for airplanes > to be sport pilot eligible is 1320 lbs. Has that number been changed? > > Ken > > On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 7:40 AM, AircamperN11MS > wrote: > Scott.liefeld@lacity.org> > > > > Congratulations Dave, > > > > I have one item I think you should consider. I was looking at you W&B > and noticed that you have the gross weight at 1250 pounds. If you were to > lower it to 1230 or lower before your inspection it would then be able to be > flown by a Sport Pilot. Once it gets its AW with 1250 documented it cannot > be changed. As the builder you can set the gross weight anywhere you would > like. > > > > My two cents. Good luck and enjoy every flight. > > > > -------- > > Scott Liefeld > > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > > Steel Tube > > C-85-12 > > Wire Wheels > > Brodhead in 1996 > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339673#339673 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:43:13 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: bellcrank geometry From: "bender" thanks... i was just out in the hangar messing with it.... if i leave the cables just tight enough not to sag then it actually feels ok.. it just seems weird to be that loose.. the wooden block under the seat instead of the pulley would work great too , no real friction with loose cables in unison now... " stick to the plans " jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339686#339686 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:59:27 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dave's Pietenpol Airworthiness Inspection on the 17th From: "AircamperN11MS" Opps, you are correct. Maybe it was to early this morning for me. Just got my first cup of coffee. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339689#339689 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:07:33 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dave's Pietenpol Airworthiness Inspection on the 17th From: "AircamperN11MS" Now you all see why I don't say to much. I have Foot in mouth disease. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339690#339690 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:10:52 AM PST US From: KM Heide CPO/FAAOP Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dave's W&B Sure.... You just wanted everyone to see your grin! --- On Thu, 5/12/11, Dan Yocum wrote: > From: Dan Yocum > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dave's W&B > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Date: Thursday, May 12, 2011, 10:32 AM > And N8031 has a cut-out which works > pretty well, too. > > Dan > > > On 05/11/2011 10:45 PM, Clif Dawson wrote: > > You want flop? I geeve you flop! > > > > I'm pretty agile, now. Later, down the avenue of > > years? Probably not. I don't want to have to give > > up Piet flyin' because I can no longer get in the > > silly thing! > > > > Clif :-) > > > >> Dave, > >> I just realized - you don't have a center section > flop or a cut-out. > >> No wonder it's hard to get in and out! > >> Cheers, > >> Dan > > -- > Dan Yocum > Fermilab 630.840.6509 > yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov > "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of > petty things." > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:22:53 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dave's Pietenpol Airworthiness Inspection on the 17th From: "kevinpurtee" Scott - I keep my foot firmly in my mouth most of the time on this list. Keeps me out of some trouble:). do not archive -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339696#339696 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:39:38 AM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Pietenpol-List: She's got legs - again Progress comes in baby steps I guess. I finished the final welds last night and got N328X back up on its gear after building it wrong the first time. Thanks to our own Ryan Mueller and guru William Wynne the axles have been moved forward a full 6 inches from the plans location to account for brakes and no tail skid. One additional benefit will be a slight shift of weight in the forward direction which I expect to be beneficial as well. Sorry, no photos yet since everything had to come back off for cleaning up, priming, and painting before (what I hope to be) final assembly. Tom Stinemetze N328X SpaceShipZero.One ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:58:40 AM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: bellcrank geometry Jeff, again, I'm not past this point but my understanding is it helps forward of the bellcrank also. Jack DSM -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bender Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 9:32 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: bellcrank geometry i understand the aft cable issue... as i move the stick...no cables aft of the bellcrank the cables go from loose to tight to loose again my problem is up front... i see from mr Cuys photos that 2 inches of travel at the location of his stop is all thats required and that would help but i'm wondering if the bellcrank going overcenter is the problem i really thought this closed loop in the front was a no brainer now i feel like i'm missing a brain myself jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339676#339676 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/cable_205.jpg ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:09:59 AM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: She's got legs - again That's great Tom! Jack DSM Do not archive _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM STINEMETZE Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 11:37 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: She's got legs - again Progress comes in baby steps I guess. I finished the final welds last night and got N328X back up on its gear after building it wrong the first time. Thanks to our own Ryan Mueller and guru William Wynne the axles have been moved forward a full 6 inches from the plans location to account for brakes and no tail skid. One additional benefit will be a slight shift of weight in the forward direction which I expect to be beneficial as well. Sorry, no photos yet since everything had to come back off for cleaning up, priming, and painting before (what I hope to be) final assembly. Tom Stinemetze N328X SpaceShipZero.One ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:27:37 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: She's got legs - again From: Ryan Mueller Congratulations Tom!! Ryan do not archive On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 11:37 AM, TOM STINEMETZE wrote: > *Progress comes in baby steps I guess. I finished the final welds last > night and got N328X back up on its gear after building it wrong the first > time. Thanks to our own Ryan Mueller and guru William Wynne the axles have > been moved forward a full 6 inches from the plans location to account for > brakes and no tail skid. One additional benefit will be a slight shift of > weight in the forward direction which I expect to be beneficial as well.* > ** > *Sorry, no photos yet since everything had to come back off for cleaning > up, priming, and painting before (what I hope to be) final assembly.* > ** > *Tom Stinemetze* > *N328X* > *SpaceShipZero.One* > ** > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:40:12 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Where is the Belize Fisherman Ray Axillou when you need him ?? For those of you who joined the list after Wildman Ray, (aka The Fisherman ) Axillou dropped off the Piet list, he was building a Piet under some shade trees in Florida out of anything he could get his hands on from Home Depot and was making grand headway until he found out there are a hundred metal f ittings to be hand-fabricated and welded to hold everything together. He was always yacking about retiring to Belize and flying is Pietenpol down there. He actually caused such a ruckus on the list with his hair-up-his-netheregion ideas (most were downright unairw orthy and outright dangerous) that it caused some of us to become good friends on the list as we all shared our frustrat ions with this character in trying to get him to build safely out of decent grade materials. >From AvWeb below. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:57:06 PM PST US From: John Hofmann Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Where is the Belize Fisherman Ray Axillou when you need him ?? http://falconview0.tripod.com/raymondauxillou/ John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2424 American Lane Madison, WI 53704 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com On May 12, 2011, at 2:37 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP] wrote: > For those of you who joined the list after Wildman Ray, (aka The Fisherman) Axillou dropped off the Piet list, > he was building a Piet under some shade trees in Florida out of anything he could get his hands on from Home Depot > and was making grand headway until he found out there are a hundred metal fittings to be hand-fabricated and > welded to hold everything together. > > He was always yacking about retiring to Belize and flying is Pietenpol down there. He actually caused such a ruckus on > the list with his hair-up-his-netheregion ideas (most were downright unairworthy and outright dangerous) that it caused > some of us to become good friends on the list as we all shared our frustrations with this character in trying to get him to > build safely out of decent grade materials. > > =46rom AvWeb below. Do not archive > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:11:09 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Where is the Belize Fisherman Ray Axillou when you need him From: "K5YAC" What? Un-airworthy practices on THIS list? Inconceivable! :D They need to be delivered by C-46 Commando or C-47 Skytrain... I can't think of a more fitting aircraft to deliver something on the 5th-6th of June. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339713#339713 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 05:34:24 PM PST US From: Darrel Jones Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: West Coast Piet gathering...darn! Jim, You can load a case of your best stuff in baggage compartment. I promise not to touch it while in flight. At least not until the first fuel stop. There might be some left by the time I get to Brodhead. The Stinson is good for 6oo pounds in the back seat. (For those who don't know me...just kidding.) I'll be working on the Taylorcraft Saturday so swing by the hangar and we'll get a hamburger. Darrel On 5/11/2011 7:52 PM, Jim Boyer wrote: > > Hi Darrel, > > I think I would bring it but make sure its not accessible to you while > moving. Are you flying back this year too? Are you going to be there > this Saturday? I can come over this Saturday. > > Cheers, > > Jim > > Do not archive > > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:15:21 PM PST US From: Jim Boyer Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: West Coast Piet gathering...darn! Cool Darrel see you=C2-Saturday morning around 10:30. Jim ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:17 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Where is the Belize Fisherman Ray Axillou when you need him Better call up Buffalo Air! By the way, I understand they've been contracted to do a re-enactment of the Dambuster bombings. Clif > > They need to be delivered by C-46 Commando or C-47 Skytrain... I can't > think of a more fitting aircraft to deliver something on the 5th-6th of > June. > Mark Chouinard ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.