Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:51 AM - Re: Crosswind in a GN-1 and stalls (Jack)
2. 03:54 AM - Re: Re: update (Jack)
3. 04:28 AM - Re: Crosswind in a GN-1 and stalls (ldmill)
4. 05:06 AM - Re: update (airlion)
5. 05:29 AM - Tom's son on msnbc.com (Jim Markle)
6. 06:00 AM - Re: Re: Crosswind in a GN-1 and stalls (Jack)
7. 06:17 AM - Crosswind in a GN-1 and stalls (Oscar Zuniga)
8. 06:30 AM - Re: Tom's son on msnbc.com (TOM STINEMETZE)
9. 07:11 AM - Re: Crosswind in a GN-1 and stalls (Steve Ruse)
10. 07:12 AM - Re: Crosswind in a GN-1 and stalls (ldmill)
11. 07:21 AM - Re: Crosswind in a GN-1 and stalls (Dan Yocum)
12. 07:28 AM - Congratulations Tom Stinemetze: Tom's son on msnbc.com (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP])
13. 07:44 AM - Re: Tom's son on msnbc.com (K5YAC)
14. 08:33 AM - Re: Cloudcars prop (Woodflier@aol.com)
15. 08:36 AM - ()
16. 08:50 AM - Re: Cloudcars prop (AircamperN11MS)
17. 09:05 AM - Pietenpol For Sale (Lagowski Morrow)
18. 02:39 PM - Flip-open map storage door... (aerocarjake)
19. 07:01 PM - Re: Crosswind in a GN-1 and stalls (ldmill)
20. 10:52 PM - Re: Brodhead (amsafetyc@aol.com)
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Subject: | Crosswind in a GN-1 and stalls |
Thanks for sharing Lorin, glad it worked out!
Jack
DSM
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ldmill
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 10:36 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Crosswind in a GN-1 and stalls
Fairly long post (adrenaline letdown).
After about 30 hours in this plane, am finally starting to expand my
knowledge of how it handles a wider flight envelope. Today, I learned about
where my limit in crosswind in the GN-1 is. Flew for a little over an hour
and winds in Marshalltown, Iowa were 9kt at 20 degrees off the runway
heading when I took-off - did six T@G with no problem (crosswind component
about 3kt, no biggie). This was the most wind I've ever flown this plane in
to date. However - keep reading for the Paul Harvey version of the saga.
Next - went up to 3k AGL and did my first stall in this plane. Kept
throttling back and started playing around with slow flight getting a feel
for it. At 47mph indicated (1100rpm), the nose would start to wander around
- at 45 mph I'd get the occasional wiffodill (beginning light buffet of a
stall). The rudder was very sensitive and I felt like I could easily
accidentally kick the plane into a spin if not careful. At 42 mph indicated
(the stick was about buried in my nether regions) - the nose abruptly
dropped like a stone slightly to the right and plane quickly accelerated to
85 mph before I got it pulled out without pulling too much G. This was a
more abrupt stall with not as much warning as the C-172 that I'm used to
flying, but not too bad. However - my big lesson on this was to make damn
sure to watch the airspeed on final - no way will you ever have time to pull
out if you accidentally stall it, and you don't get very much notice that
it's going to happen.
Now the interesting part - I was flying past the airport again (on the way
somewhere else) and decided to check the AWOS - 19kt gusting to 26, 50
degrees off the runway. Holy smokes.... that can't be right, it's only been
an hour - next update it was 17kt gusting to 25, 45 degrees off - next
update it was 18kt gusting to 24kt, 55 degrees off, then 21kt, then 25, then
23... Okay - I needed to get down NOW before I soiling myself thinking
about this...
First approach was 19 gusting to 23 at 55 degrees off - and I was full
rudder and couldn't hold the 100ft wide runway - was churning butter with
the stick it was miserably rough within 100 ft of the ground - aborted and
went around.
Second approach was reported 18 gusting 26 at 55 off the runway- absolute
full rudder and about 30 degrees down wing to hold center line - to a
landing that I would be happy with in a normal situation. Was down and
stopped in about 300ft. What an absolute ego trip!! Of bloody course nobody
was watching to congratulate me on my expert pilot skills... sigh...
18kt crosswind at 55 off the runway is around a 15kt direct crosswind
component - or 17+mph. I don't think I saw more than about a 23kt gust -
which would put it at about 19kt crosswind (22mph).
I'm impressed with the planes ability to handle this high of crosswind - I
don't know what the plane is actually capable of, but I was definitely at my
personal limit.
Too much excitement today for me.
Lorin
--------
Lorin Miller
Waiex N81YX
GN-1 N30PP
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340350#340350
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Dan,
I believe they sell at Brodhead for $300. Can't remember but I sold a set
for $200 to $300 a couple of years ago.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dwilson
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 9:46 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: update
Anyone know what would be a fair price for a set of ribs ? These are
original Piet airfoil. Considering building a another set myself.
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340347#340347
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Subject: | Re: Crosswind in a GN-1 and stalls |
Thanks guys! Jack - am going to have to slip down some time and see your project.
lorin
--------
Lorin Miller
Waiex N81YX
GN-1 N30PP
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340376#340376
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Jack, I am flabbergasted. Of course I will take you up on that. But let me see
what I can come up with at Brodhead first. Last year there two sets available
for about 300.00. Thanks, Gardiner
----- Original Message ----
From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Wed, May 18, 2011 8:47:34 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: update
Gardiner, If you'll buy the material I will build you the ribs.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of airlion
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 8:09 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: update
Gentlemen, I am in the process of tearing my Piet down to see what can be
saved. The fuselage and firewall forward are good. The tailcone needed some
repair and I have already done that. The landing gear has been rewelded but
not
installed yet. My elevators are good but the horizontal and vertical stabs
are
toast. I have been doing a lot of repair on the cowling. Also, I will be
rewiring because I took all the instruments out by cutting the wires to keep
from being stolen. I will need to build new wings as they really got
smushed.
Will there be any ribs available at brodhead this year? I don't want to
spend
all winter building ribs as I am too old. Cheers and I am keeping my hopes
up.
See ya'll at Brodhead. I will be driving this time but I was planning to fly
my
Piet up. Gardiner Mason
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Subject: | Tom's son on msnbc.com |
This morning there's an interesting video on msnbc.msn.com about a recent Virgin
Galactic flight....
And Tom Stinemetze's son is interviewed! Pretty cool....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Er9-sTDhJ58&feature=player_detailpage
Congrats Tom!
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Subject: | Re: Crosswind in a GN-1 and stalls |
Please do!
Do not archive
Jack Textor
Sent from my iPhone
On May 19, 2011, at 6:26 AM, "ldmill" <lorin.miller@emerson.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks guys! Jack - am going to have to slip down some time and see your project.
> lorin
>
> --------
> Lorin Miller
> Waiex N81YX
> GN-1 N30PP
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340376#340376
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Subject: | Crosswind in a GN-1 and stalls |
Lorin:
What airfoil does your GN-1 have? That power-off stall speed
and abrupt nose-down don't sound like what my Piet does with
the stock Pietenpol undercambered airfoil.
A tip of my hat to you for the x-wind landing though. Nice
save after one 'bolter'... it usually goes downhill after you
miss one and the pressure is on.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket"
San Antonio, TX (soon to be Eagle Point, Oregon)
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
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Subject: | Re: Tom's son on msnbc.com |
Thanks for the kudo Jim. Yes, I have a son who builds space ships. But
at least I can grow hair.
Stinemetze
N328X (SpaceShipZero.One)
>>> Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com> 5/19/2011 7:27 AM >>>
>
This morning there's an interesting video on msnbc.msn.com about a recent
Virgin Galactic flight....
And Tom Stinemetze's son is interviewed! Pretty cool....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Er9-sTDhJ58&feature=player_detailpage
Congrats Tom!
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Crosswind in a GN-1 and stalls |
I have been amazed at the crosswinds my GN-1 can handle. In central
Oklahoma in the springtime, if you don't fly in high gusty winds you
don't fly (or at least not often at all). I've been known to show up
at the local (KPVJ) monthly fly-in on a day when no one else would
fly...in my sub 1,000lbs plane. The super, super low ground speed
makes an amazing difference when landing. It is hard to ground loop
when your groundspeed is 15 to 20mph and you still have an airspeed of
40 to 50mph to keep the tail behind you, even if it is a 45 degree
crosswind. Landing with a 100 to 200 foot rollout is common on these
days. I come down with maybe 2,000 or more RPM (A-75), get 3' to 5'
up, and wait until the gusts let up enough to stabilize, chop the
power and it'll be on the ground and stopped in under 10 seconds due
to the headwind.
I completely understand your "churning butter with the stick" comment.
At these low speeds with gusty winds you'll be taking the stick from
stop to stop very fast and very often. Knock on wood, I haven't
really even scared myself on landing yet (in 400 or so hours in the
plane). I have however thought much about increasing the rate of
aileron deflection I get with the stick so that I can go stop to stop
faster (not more total deflection, just faster deflection).
After these landings, you have a combined feeling of "wow, that was
great", and "wow, that was stupid, don't do that again" and "wow, that
was great practice, I need to do this semi-regularly to keep my skills
up".
Sure is fun. :)
As for stalls, I've never gotten mine to do more than a fast mush. It
has never broken over on me, but I can pull the nose up 30 or more
degrees with no power and she just mushes forward (and downward), with
probably more than 500fpm descent (that is a guess, I have no VSI).
Steve Ruse
in windy, gusty Norman, OK
Quoting ldmill <lorin.miller@emerson.com>:
>
> Fairly long post (adrenaline letdown).
>
> After about 30 hours in this plane, am finally starting to expand my
> knowledge of how it handles a wider flight envelope. Today, I
> learned about where my limit in crosswind in the GN-1 is. Flew for a
> little over an hour and winds in Marshalltown, Iowa were 9kt at 20
> degrees off the runway heading when I took-off - did six T@G with no
> problem (crosswind component = about 3kt, no biggie). This was the
> most wind I've ever flown this plane in to date. However - keep
> reading for the Paul Harvey version of the saga.
>
> Next - went up to 3k AGL and did my first stall in this plane. Kept
> throttling back and started playing around with slow flight getting
> a feel for it. At 47mph indicated (1100rpm), the nose would start
> to wander around - at 45 mph I'd get the occasional wiffodill
> (beginning light buffet of a stall). The rudder was very sensitive
> and I felt like I could easily accidentally kick the plane into a
> spin if not careful. At 42 mph indicated (the stick was about buried
> in my nether regions) - the nose abruptly dropped like a stone
> slightly to the right and plane quickly accelerated to 85 mph before
> I got it pulled out without pulling too much G. This was a more
> abrupt stall with not as much warning as the C-172 that I'm used to
> flying, but not too bad. However - my big lesson on this was to make
> damn sure to watch the airspeed on final - no way will you ever have
> time to pull out if you accidentally stall it, and you don't get
> very much notice that it's going to happen.
>
> Now the interesting part - I was flying past the airport again (on
> the way somewhere else) and decided to check the AWOS - 19kt
> gusting to 26, 50 degrees off the runway. Holy smokes.... that
> can't be right, it's only been an hour - next update it was 17kt
> gusting to 25, 45 degrees off - next update it was 18kt gusting to
> 24kt, 55 degrees off, then 21kt, then 25, then 23... Okay - I
> needed to get down NOW before I soiling myself thinking about this...
>
> First approach was 19 gusting to 23 at 55 degrees off - and I was
> full rudder and couldn't hold the 100ft wide runway - was churning
> butter with the stick it was miserably rough within 100 ft of the
> ground - aborted and went around.
>
> Second approach was reported 18 gusting 26 at 55 off the runway-
> absolute full rudder and about 30 degrees down wing to hold center
> line - to a landing that I would be happy with in a normal
> situation. Was down and stopped in about 300ft. What an absolute
> ego trip!! Of bloody course nobody was watching to congratulate me
> on my expert pilot skills... sigh...
>
> 18kt crosswind at 55 off the runway is around a 15kt direct
> crosswind component - or 17+mph. I don't think I saw more than about
> a 23kt gust - which would put it at about 19kt crosswind (22mph).
>
> I'm impressed with the planes ability to handle this high of
> crosswind - I don't know what the plane is actually capable of, but
> I was definitely at my personal limit.
>
> Too much excitement today for me.
>
> Lorin
>
> --------
> Lorin Miller
> Waiex N81YX
> GN-1 N30PP
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340350#340350
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Crosswind in a GN-1 and stalls |
Hi Oscar,
I think I've got the stock Grega airfoil on it. I didn't get a build log when
I purchased the plane, am fairly new to the Piet world - so am not for sure.
That's one of the things that I'd like to look at on Jack's plane in Des Moines.
Also - talking to my boss this morning (who is also a CFII), he said that
moderate power on stalls tend to have the worst characteristics as it pulls in
torque effect, etc. He highly recommended that I do a full power off stall next
time up to get a true feel for how the plane responds.
I've had time now to sit and mull over the whole landing sequence and pick it
apart. I had to bolt on the first landing - just too much turbulence and couldn't
keep the plane lined up on the runway. Could have possibly saved it - but
it wasn't worth taking the chance. I realized that there was more crosswind
than I could handle with just full rudder and cross control.
Second landing I had to approach in a huge crab, then at the last second full
cross control and slip down and slow wheel landing. Had the tail down in about
3 seconds. It was amazing landing like that with the wind blasting me from the
left side. I'd never done it before. Very turbulent in an open cockpit plane...
I've got 40 hours total tailwheel time now with one beautiful soft "off into
the grass" groundloop skid (right in front of my boss - of course). I wouldn't
trade this type of flying for anything.
Lorin
--------
Lorin Miller
Waiex N81YX
GN-1 N30PP
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340389#340389
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Subject: | Re: Crosswind in a GN-1 and stalls |
Lorin,
Have you put gap seals on your ailerons? It makes a world of difference
in a cross-wind.
Dan
On 05/18/2011 10:36 PM, ldmill wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "ldmill"<lorin.miller@emerson.com>
>
> Fairly long post (adrenaline letdown).
>
> After about 30 hours in this plane, am finally starting to expand my knowledge
of how it handles a wider flight envelope. Today, I learned about where my limit
in crosswind in the GN-1 is. Flew for a little over an hour and winds in
Marshalltown, Iowa were 9kt at 20 degrees off the runway heading when I took-off
- did six T@G with no problem (crosswind component = about 3kt, no biggie).
This was the most wind I've ever flown this plane in to date. However - keep
reading for the Paul Harvey version of the saga.
>
> Next - went up to 3k AGL and did my first stall in this plane. Kept throttling
back and started playing around with slow flight getting a feel for it. At 47mph
indicated (1100rpm), the nose would start to wander around - at 45 mph I'd
get the occasional wiffodill (beginning light buffet of a stall). The rudder
was very sensitive and I felt like I could easily accidentally kick the plane
into a spin if not careful. At 42 mph indicated (the stick was about buried
in my nether regions) - the nose abruptly dropped like a stone slightly to the
right and plane quickly accelerated to 85 mph before I got it pulled out without
pulling too much G. This was a more abrupt stall with not as much warning
as the C-172 that I'm used to flying, but not too bad. However - my big lesson
on this was to make damn sure to watch the airspeed on final - no way will
you ever have time to pull out if you accidentally stall it, and you don't get
very much notice that it's going to happen.
>
> Now the interesting part - I was flying past the airport again (on the way somewhere
else) and decided to check the AWOS - 19kt gusting to 26, 50 degrees
off the runway. Holy smokes.... that can't be right, it's only been an hour -
next update it was 17kt gusting to 25, 45 degrees off - next update it was 18kt
gusting to 24kt, 55 degrees off, then 21kt, then 25, then 23... Okay - I needed
to get down NOW before I soiling myself thinking about this...
>
> First approach was 19 gusting to 23 at 55 degrees off - and I was full rudder
and couldn't hold the 100ft wide runway - was churning butter with the stick
it was miserably rough within 100 ft of the ground - aborted and went around.
>
> Second approach was reported 18 gusting 26 at 55 off the runway- absolute full
rudder and about 30 degrees down wing to hold center line - to a landing that
I would be happy with in a normal situation. Was down and stopped in about 300ft.
What an absolute ego trip!! Of bloody course nobody was watching to congratulate
me on my expert pilot skills... sigh...
>
> 18kt crosswind at 55 off the runway is around a 15kt direct crosswind component
- or 17+mph. I don't think I saw more than about a 23kt gust - which would
put it at about 19kt crosswind (22mph).
>
> I'm impressed with the planes ability to handle this high of crosswind - I don't
know what the plane is actually capable of, but I was definitely at my personal
limit.
>
> Too much excitement today for me.
>
> Lorin
>
> --------
> Lorin Miller
> Waiex N81YX
> GN-1 N30PP
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340350#340350
>
>
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
Message 12
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Subject: | Congratulations Tom Stinemetze: Tom's son on msnbc.com |
What a proud father you must be Tom and how exciting to see your son right in
the middle of managing history in the making with Virgin Galactic and Scaled Composites.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Er9-sTDhJ58&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
Thanks for posting this for us to see Jim Markle!
Mike C.
do not archive
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Subject: | Re: Tom's son on msnbc.com |
That is awesome. Thanks Jim!
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340397#340397
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Subject: | Re: Cloudcars prop |
Scott, the engine is a Continental A65-8.
Matt
Time: 05:39:17 AM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: 40 hour fly-off and Cloudcars prop
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org>
Matt,
What engine do you have the Cloudcar bolted to?
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
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Subject: | Re: Cloudcars prop |
Matt,
I know that on a CUb with a 65 Cont. and certified wood prop, it would have these
prop choices.
72x42 for cruise
72x40 for climb
I believe that Mike Cuy is flying his with the same engine you have. He would
probably have better and confirmed info for you. Not sure but I think your redline
is 2350 RPM.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340404#340404
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Subject: | Pietenpol For Sale |
Built in 2008, TTAE ~55 hours, Completely rebuilt Continental 65,
Polyfiber covered, gear is Fly Baby type, Scott tail wheel, 800 x 6
mains, basic instruments, hand prop, light sport, located in N.W.
Michigan @ Antrim County (ACB ) airport, hangered
I'm asking $14,750 but will consider any reasonable offer. Bought a
1941Taylorcraft and can't afford to have 2 planes
Jim Lagowski
231-264-6489 Home
231-709-1373 Cell
jimdeb@charter.net
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Subject: | Flip-open map storage door... |
Having continued fun working on the Piet...
The most recent few days have been spent fabricating a flip-down door for the forward
"instrument board" (as Bernard called it) I am planning to use that space
for storage, not instruments so the panel is attached via cabinet hinges with
a veneer of "Bubinga" overlay (so that the fastener heads do not show.)
Having a wonderful time....
I'm finally able to work in the shop with the door wide-open to the greenbelt -
because the weather is so nice, yahooo...!
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340427#340427
Attachments:
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Subject: | Re: Crosswind in a GN-1 and stalls |
Steve - thanks for the hints! I also have an A-75 in mine - so will try that technique
next time. From landing to completed roll out was at most 200ft last
evening. The last full month here in central Iowa has been pretty much 15-20+mph
almost every day - so I understand what you're saying - either fly in it -
or not much flying to be had.
Your comment "After these landings, you have a combined feeling of "wow, that was
great", and "wow, that was stupid, don't do that again" and "wow, that was
great practice, I need to do this semi-regularly to keep my skills up" was a perfect
synopsis of how I was feeling last night!
Dan,
Yes, I do have gap seals on the ailerons. They are very responsive when moved,
that's not an issue, it just takes quite a bit of stick movement to move the
ailerons very much.
Lorin
--------
Lorin Miller
Waiex N81YX
GN-1 N30PP
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340436#340436
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