Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Thu 05/19/11


Total Messages Posted: 20



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 03:51 AM - Re: Crosswind in a GN-1 and stalls (Jack)
     2. 03:54 AM - Re: Re: update (Jack)
     3. 04:28 AM - Re: Crosswind in a GN-1 and stalls (ldmill)
     4. 05:06 AM - Re: update (airlion)
     5. 05:29 AM - Tom's son on msnbc.com (Jim Markle)
     6. 06:00 AM - Re: Re: Crosswind in a GN-1 and stalls (Jack)
     7. 06:17 AM - Crosswind in a GN-1 and stalls (Oscar Zuniga)
     8. 06:30 AM - Re: Tom's son on msnbc.com (TOM STINEMETZE)
     9. 07:11 AM - Re: Crosswind in a GN-1 and stalls (Steve Ruse)
    10. 07:12 AM - Re: Crosswind in a GN-1 and stalls (ldmill)
    11. 07:21 AM - Re: Crosswind in a GN-1 and stalls (Dan Yocum)
    12. 07:28 AM - Congratulations Tom Stinemetze: Tom's son on msnbc.com (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP])
    13. 07:44 AM - Re: Tom's son on msnbc.com (K5YAC)
    14. 08:33 AM - Re: Cloudcars prop (Woodflier@aol.com)
    15. 08:36 AM -  ()
    16. 08:50 AM - Re: Cloudcars prop (AircamperN11MS)
    17. 09:05 AM - Pietenpol For Sale (Lagowski Morrow)
    18. 02:39 PM - Flip-open map storage door... (aerocarjake)
    19. 07:01 PM - Re: Crosswind in a GN-1 and stalls (ldmill)
    20. 10:52 PM - Re: Brodhead (amsafetyc@aol.com)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 03:51:26 AM PST US
    From: "Jack" <jack@textors.com>
    Subject: Crosswind in a GN-1 and stalls
    Thanks for sharing Lorin, glad it worked out! Jack DSM Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ldmill Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 10:36 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Crosswind in a GN-1 and stalls Fairly long post (adrenaline letdown). After about 30 hours in this plane, am finally starting to expand my knowledge of how it handles a wider flight envelope. Today, I learned about where my limit in crosswind in the GN-1 is. Flew for a little over an hour and winds in Marshalltown, Iowa were 9kt at 20 degrees off the runway heading when I took-off - did six T@G with no problem (crosswind component about 3kt, no biggie). This was the most wind I've ever flown this plane in to date. However - keep reading for the Paul Harvey version of the saga. Next - went up to 3k AGL and did my first stall in this plane. Kept throttling back and started playing around with slow flight getting a feel for it. At 47mph indicated (1100rpm), the nose would start to wander around - at 45 mph I'd get the occasional wiffodill (beginning light buffet of a stall). The rudder was very sensitive and I felt like I could easily accidentally kick the plane into a spin if not careful. At 42 mph indicated (the stick was about buried in my nether regions) - the nose abruptly dropped like a stone slightly to the right and plane quickly accelerated to 85 mph before I got it pulled out without pulling too much G. This was a more abrupt stall with not as much warning as the C-172 that I'm used to flying, but not too bad. However - my big lesson on this was to make damn sure to watch the airspeed on final - no way will you ever have time to pull out if you accidentally stall it, and you don't get very much notice that it's going to happen. Now the interesting part - I was flying past the airport again (on the way somewhere else) and decided to check the AWOS - 19kt gusting to 26, 50 degrees off the runway. Holy smokes.... that can't be right, it's only been an hour - next update it was 17kt gusting to 25, 45 degrees off - next update it was 18kt gusting to 24kt, 55 degrees off, then 21kt, then 25, then 23... Okay - I needed to get down NOW before I soiling myself thinking about this... First approach was 19 gusting to 23 at 55 degrees off - and I was full rudder and couldn't hold the 100ft wide runway - was churning butter with the stick it was miserably rough within 100 ft of the ground - aborted and went around. Second approach was reported 18 gusting 26 at 55 off the runway- absolute full rudder and about 30 degrees down wing to hold center line - to a landing that I would be happy with in a normal situation. Was down and stopped in about 300ft. What an absolute ego trip!! Of bloody course nobody was watching to congratulate me on my expert pilot skills... sigh... 18kt crosswind at 55 off the runway is around a 15kt direct crosswind component - or 17+mph. I don't think I saw more than about a 23kt gust - which would put it at about 19kt crosswind (22mph). I'm impressed with the planes ability to handle this high of crosswind - I don't know what the plane is actually capable of, but I was definitely at my personal limit. Too much excitement today for me. Lorin -------- Lorin Miller Waiex N81YX GN-1 N30PP Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340350#340350


    Message 2


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    Time: 03:54:26 AM PST US
    From: "Jack" <jack@textors.com>
    Subject: Re: update
    Dan, I believe they sell at Brodhead for $300. Can't remember but I sold a set for $200 to $300 a couple of years ago. Jack -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dwilson Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 9:46 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: update Anyone know what would be a fair price for a set of ribs ? These are original Piet airfoil. Considering building a another set myself. Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340347#340347


    Message 3


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    Time: 04:28:51 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Crosswind in a GN-1 and stalls
    From: "ldmill" <lorin.miller@emerson.com>
    Thanks guys! Jack - am going to have to slip down some time and see your project. lorin -------- Lorin Miller Waiex N81YX GN-1 N30PP Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340376#340376


    Message 4


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    Time: 05:06:06 AM PST US
    From: airlion <airlion@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: update
    Jack, I am flabbergasted. Of course I will take you up on that. But let me see what I can come up with at Brodhead first. Last year there two sets available for about 300.00. Thanks, Gardiner ----- Original Message ---- From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> Sent: Wed, May 18, 2011 8:47:34 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: update Gardiner, If you'll buy the material I will build you the ribs. Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of airlion Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 8:09 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: update Gentlemen, I am in the process of tearing my Piet down to see what can be saved. The fuselage and firewall forward are good. The tailcone needed some repair and I have already done that. The landing gear has been rewelded but not installed yet. My elevators are good but the horizontal and vertical stabs are toast. I have been doing a lot of repair on the cowling. Also, I will be rewiring because I took all the instruments out by cutting the wires to keep from being stolen. I will need to build new wings as they really got smushed. Will there be any ribs available at brodhead this year? I don't want to spend all winter building ribs as I am too old. Cheers and I am keeping my hopes up. See ya'll at Brodhead. I will be driving this time but I was planning to fly my Piet up. Gardiner Mason


    Message 5


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    Time: 05:29:52 AM PST US
    From: Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
    Subject: Tom's son on msnbc.com
    This morning there's an interesting video on msnbc.msn.com about a recent Virgin Galactic flight.... And Tom Stinemetze's son is interviewed! Pretty cool.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Er9-sTDhJ58&feature=player_detailpage Congrats Tom!


    Message 6


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    Time: 06:00:45 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Crosswind in a GN-1 and stalls
    From: Jack <jack@textors.com>
    Please do! Do not archive Jack Textor Sent from my iPhone On May 19, 2011, at 6:26 AM, "ldmill" <lorin.miller@emerson.com> wrote: > > Thanks guys! Jack - am going to have to slip down some time and see your project. > lorin > > -------- > Lorin Miller > Waiex N81YX > GN-1 N30PP > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340376#340376 > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 7


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    Time: 06:17:47 AM PST US
    From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Crosswind in a GN-1 and stalls
    Lorin: What airfoil does your GN-1 have? That power-off stall speed and abrupt nose-down don't sound like what my Piet does with the stock Pietenpol undercambered airfoil. A tip of my hat to you for the x-wind landing though. Nice save after one 'bolter'... it usually goes downhill after you miss one and the pressure is on. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket" San Antonio, TX (soon to be Eagle Point, Oregon) website at http://www.flysquirrel.net


    Message 8


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    Time: 06:30:40 AM PST US
    From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS@mcpcity.com>
    Subject: Re: Tom's son on msnbc.com
    Thanks for the kudo Jim. Yes, I have a son who builds space ships. But at least I can grow hair. Stinemetze N328X (SpaceShipZero.One) >>> Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com> 5/19/2011 7:27 AM >>> > This morning there's an interesting video on msnbc.msn.com about a recent Virgin Galactic flight.... And Tom Stinemetze's son is interviewed! Pretty cool.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Er9-sTDhJ58&feature=player_detailpage Congrats Tom!


    Message 9


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    Time: 07:11:44 AM PST US
    From: Steve Ruse <steve@wotelectronics.com>
    Subject: Re: Crosswind in a GN-1 and stalls
    I have been amazed at the crosswinds my GN-1 can handle. In central Oklahoma in the springtime, if you don't fly in high gusty winds you don't fly (or at least not often at all). I've been known to show up at the local (KPVJ) monthly fly-in on a day when no one else would fly...in my sub 1,000lbs plane. The super, super low ground speed makes an amazing difference when landing. It is hard to ground loop when your groundspeed is 15 to 20mph and you still have an airspeed of 40 to 50mph to keep the tail behind you, even if it is a 45 degree crosswind. Landing with a 100 to 200 foot rollout is common on these days. I come down with maybe 2,000 or more RPM (A-75), get 3' to 5' up, and wait until the gusts let up enough to stabilize, chop the power and it'll be on the ground and stopped in under 10 seconds due to the headwind. I completely understand your "churning butter with the stick" comment. At these low speeds with gusty winds you'll be taking the stick from stop to stop very fast and very often. Knock on wood, I haven't really even scared myself on landing yet (in 400 or so hours in the plane). I have however thought much about increasing the rate of aileron deflection I get with the stick so that I can go stop to stop faster (not more total deflection, just faster deflection). After these landings, you have a combined feeling of "wow, that was great", and "wow, that was stupid, don't do that again" and "wow, that was great practice, I need to do this semi-regularly to keep my skills up". Sure is fun. :) As for stalls, I've never gotten mine to do more than a fast mush. It has never broken over on me, but I can pull the nose up 30 or more degrees with no power and she just mushes forward (and downward), with probably more than 500fpm descent (that is a guess, I have no VSI). Steve Ruse in windy, gusty Norman, OK Quoting ldmill <lorin.miller@emerson.com>: > > Fairly long post (adrenaline letdown). > > After about 30 hours in this plane, am finally starting to expand my > knowledge of how it handles a wider flight envelope. Today, I > learned about where my limit in crosswind in the GN-1 is. Flew for a > little over an hour and winds in Marshalltown, Iowa were 9kt at 20 > degrees off the runway heading when I took-off - did six T@G with no > problem (crosswind component = about 3kt, no biggie). This was the > most wind I've ever flown this plane in to date. However - keep > reading for the Paul Harvey version of the saga. > > Next - went up to 3k AGL and did my first stall in this plane. Kept > throttling back and started playing around with slow flight getting > a feel for it. At 47mph indicated (1100rpm), the nose would start > to wander around - at 45 mph I'd get the occasional wiffodill > (beginning light buffet of a stall). The rudder was very sensitive > and I felt like I could easily accidentally kick the plane into a > spin if not careful. At 42 mph indicated (the stick was about buried > in my nether regions) - the nose abruptly dropped like a stone > slightly to the right and plane quickly accelerated to 85 mph before > I got it pulled out without pulling too much G. This was a more > abrupt stall with not as much warning as the C-172 that I'm used to > flying, but not too bad. However - my big lesson on this was to make > damn sure to watch the airspeed on final - no way will you ever have > time to pull out if you accidentally stall it, and you don't get > very much notice that it's going to happen. > > Now the interesting part - I was flying past the airport again (on > the way somewhere else) and decided to check the AWOS - 19kt > gusting to 26, 50 degrees off the runway. Holy smokes.... that > can't be right, it's only been an hour - next update it was 17kt > gusting to 25, 45 degrees off - next update it was 18kt gusting to > 24kt, 55 degrees off, then 21kt, then 25, then 23... Okay - I > needed to get down NOW before I soiling myself thinking about this... > > First approach was 19 gusting to 23 at 55 degrees off - and I was > full rudder and couldn't hold the 100ft wide runway - was churning > butter with the stick it was miserably rough within 100 ft of the > ground - aborted and went around. > > Second approach was reported 18 gusting 26 at 55 off the runway- > absolute full rudder and about 30 degrees down wing to hold center > line - to a landing that I would be happy with in a normal > situation. Was down and stopped in about 300ft. What an absolute > ego trip!! Of bloody course nobody was watching to congratulate me > on my expert pilot skills... sigh... > > 18kt crosswind at 55 off the runway is around a 15kt direct > crosswind component - or 17+mph. I don't think I saw more than about > a 23kt gust - which would put it at about 19kt crosswind (22mph). > > I'm impressed with the planes ability to handle this high of > crosswind - I don't know what the plane is actually capable of, but > I was definitely at my personal limit. > > Too much excitement today for me. > > Lorin > > -------- > Lorin Miller > Waiex N81YX > GN-1 N30PP > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340350#340350 > >


    Message 10


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    Time: 07:12:57 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Crosswind in a GN-1 and stalls
    From: "ldmill" <lorin.miller@emerson.com>
    Hi Oscar, I think I've got the stock Grega airfoil on it. I didn't get a build log when I purchased the plane, am fairly new to the Piet world - so am not for sure. That's one of the things that I'd like to look at on Jack's plane in Des Moines. Also - talking to my boss this morning (who is also a CFII), he said that moderate power on stalls tend to have the worst characteristics as it pulls in torque effect, etc. He highly recommended that I do a full power off stall next time up to get a true feel for how the plane responds. I've had time now to sit and mull over the whole landing sequence and pick it apart. I had to bolt on the first landing - just too much turbulence and couldn't keep the plane lined up on the runway. Could have possibly saved it - but it wasn't worth taking the chance. I realized that there was more crosswind than I could handle with just full rudder and cross control. Second landing I had to approach in a huge crab, then at the last second full cross control and slip down and slow wheel landing. Had the tail down in about 3 seconds. It was amazing landing like that with the wind blasting me from the left side. I'd never done it before. Very turbulent in an open cockpit plane... I've got 40 hours total tailwheel time now with one beautiful soft "off into the grass" groundloop skid (right in front of my boss - of course). I wouldn't trade this type of flying for anything. Lorin -------- Lorin Miller Waiex N81YX GN-1 N30PP Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340389#340389


    Message 11


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    Time: 07:21:10 AM PST US
    From: Dan Yocum <yocum@fnal.gov>
    Subject: Re: Crosswind in a GN-1 and stalls
    Lorin, Have you put gap seals on your ailerons? It makes a world of difference in a cross-wind. Dan On 05/18/2011 10:36 PM, ldmill wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "ldmill"<lorin.miller@emerson.com> > > Fairly long post (adrenaline letdown). > > After about 30 hours in this plane, am finally starting to expand my knowledge of how it handles a wider flight envelope. Today, I learned about where my limit in crosswind in the GN-1 is. Flew for a little over an hour and winds in Marshalltown, Iowa were 9kt at 20 degrees off the runway heading when I took-off - did six T@G with no problem (crosswind component = about 3kt, no biggie). This was the most wind I've ever flown this plane in to date. However - keep reading for the Paul Harvey version of the saga. > > Next - went up to 3k AGL and did my first stall in this plane. Kept throttling back and started playing around with slow flight getting a feel for it. At 47mph indicated (1100rpm), the nose would start to wander around - at 45 mph I'd get the occasional wiffodill (beginning light buffet of a stall). The rudder was very sensitive and I felt like I could easily accidentally kick the plane into a spin if not careful. At 42 mph indicated (the stick was about buried in my nether regions) - the nose abruptly dropped like a stone slightly to the right and plane quickly accelerated to 85 mph before I got it pulled out without pulling too much G. This was a more abrupt stall with not as much warning as the C-172 that I'm used to flying, but not too bad. However - my big lesson on this was to make damn sure to watch the airspeed on final - no way will you ever have time to pull out if you accidentally stall it, and you don't get very much notice that it's going to happen. > > Now the interesting part - I was flying past the airport again (on the way somewhere else) and decided to check the AWOS - 19kt gusting to 26, 50 degrees off the runway. Holy smokes.... that can't be right, it's only been an hour - next update it was 17kt gusting to 25, 45 degrees off - next update it was 18kt gusting to 24kt, 55 degrees off, then 21kt, then 25, then 23... Okay - I needed to get down NOW before I soiling myself thinking about this... > > First approach was 19 gusting to 23 at 55 degrees off - and I was full rudder and couldn't hold the 100ft wide runway - was churning butter with the stick it was miserably rough within 100 ft of the ground - aborted and went around. > > Second approach was reported 18 gusting 26 at 55 off the runway- absolute full rudder and about 30 degrees down wing to hold center line - to a landing that I would be happy with in a normal situation. Was down and stopped in about 300ft. What an absolute ego trip!! Of bloody course nobody was watching to congratulate me on my expert pilot skills... sigh... > > 18kt crosswind at 55 off the runway is around a 15kt direct crosswind component - or 17+mph. I don't think I saw more than about a 23kt gust - which would put it at about 19kt crosswind (22mph). > > I'm impressed with the planes ability to handle this high of crosswind - I don't know what the plane is actually capable of, but I was definitely at my personal limit. > > Too much excitement today for me. > > Lorin > > -------- > Lorin Miller > Waiex N81YX > GN-1 N30PP > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340350#340350 > > -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."


    Message 12


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    Time: 07:28:50 AM PST US
    From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
    Subject: Congratulations Tom Stinemetze: Tom's son on msnbc.com
    What a proud father you must be Tom and how exciting to see your son right in the middle of managing history in the making with Virgin Galactic and Scaled Composites. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Er9-sTDhJ58&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL Thanks for posting this for us to see Jim Markle! Mike C. do not archive


    Message 13


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    Time: 07:44:02 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Tom's son on msnbc.com
    From: "K5YAC" <hangar10@cox.net>
    That is awesome. Thanks Jim! -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340397#340397


    Message 14


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    Time: 08:33:50 AM PST US
    From: Woodflier@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Cloudcars prop
    Scott, the engine is a Continental A65-8. Matt Time: 05:39:17 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: 40 hour fly-off and Cloudcars prop From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org> Matt, What engine do you have the Cloudcar bolted to? -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996


    Message 15


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    Time: 08:36:18 AM PST US


    Message 16


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    Time: 08:50:21 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Cloudcars prop
    From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org>
    Matt, I know that on a CUb with a 65 Cont. and certified wood prop, it would have these prop choices. 72x42 for cruise 72x40 for climb I believe that Mike Cuy is flying his with the same engine you have. He would probably have better and confirmed info for you. Not sure but I think your redline is 2350 RPM. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340404#340404


    Message 17


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    Time: 09:05:46 AM PST US
    From: "Lagowski Morrow" <jimdeb@charter.net>
    Subject: Pietenpol For Sale
    Built in 2008, TTAE ~55 hours, Completely rebuilt Continental 65, Polyfiber covered, gear is Fly Baby type, Scott tail wheel, 800 x 6 mains, basic instruments, hand prop, light sport, located in N.W. Michigan @ Antrim County (ACB ) airport, hangered I'm asking $14,750 but will consider any reasonable offer. Bought a 1941Taylorcraft and can't afford to have 2 planes Jim Lagowski 231-264-6489 Home 231-709-1373 Cell jimdeb@charter.net


    Message 18


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    Time: 02:39:26 PM PST US
    Subject: Flip-open map storage door...
    From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake@gmail.com>
    Having continued fun working on the Piet... The most recent few days have been spent fabricating a flip-down door for the forward "instrument board" (as Bernard called it) I am planning to use that space for storage, not instruments so the panel is attached via cabinet hinges with a veneer of "Bubinga" overlay (so that the fastener heads do not show.) Having a wonderful time.... I'm finally able to work in the shop with the door wide-open to the greenbelt - because the weather is so nice, yahooo...! -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340427#340427 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/_map_box_closed_211.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/_map_box_open_107.jpg


    Message 19


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    Time: 07:01:54 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Crosswind in a GN-1 and stalls
    From: "ldmill" <lorin.miller@emerson.com>
    Steve - thanks for the hints! I also have an A-75 in mine - so will try that technique next time. From landing to completed roll out was at most 200ft last evening. The last full month here in central Iowa has been pretty much 15-20+mph almost every day - so I understand what you're saying - either fly in it - or not much flying to be had. Your comment "After these landings, you have a combined feeling of "wow, that was great", and "wow, that was stupid, don't do that again" and "wow, that was great practice, I need to do this semi-regularly to keep my skills up" was a perfect synopsis of how I was feeling last night! Dan, Yes, I do have gap seals on the ailerons. They are very responsive when moved, that's not an issue, it just takes quite a bit of stick movement to move the ailerons very much. Lorin -------- Lorin Miller Waiex N81YX GN-1 N30PP Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340436#340436


    Message 20


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    Time: 10:52:54 PM PST US
    From: "amsafetyc@aol.com" <amsafetyc@aol.com>
    Subject: Re: Brodhead
    --- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---




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