Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:12 AM - Re: Cloudcars Prop Performance (Bill Church)
2. 05:09 AM - Re: Cloudcars Prop Performance (Don Emch)
3. 06:26 AM - Cloudcars Prop Performance (jeff wilson)
4. 06:53 AM - Re: Subject: NX929DH update....Model A guys take note (Pieti Lowell)
5. 06:56 AM - Re: Cloudcars Prop Performance (Jack Phillips)
6. 07:03 AM - Re: Cloudcars prop performance (Woodflier@aol.com)
7. 07:05 AM - Re: Twin Rivers flying (Woodflier@aol.com)
8. 07:19 AM - Re: Cloudcars Prop Performance (Boatright, Jeffrey)
9. 07:32 AM - Re: Re: Cloudcars Prop Performance (Dan Yocum)
10. 11:46 AM - Re: Cloudcars Prop Performance (Billy McCaskill)
11. 01:29 PM - Diesel (mark lee)
12. 02:04 PM - Re: Dan Helsper and his Pietenpol at the Poplar Grove Airport (Don Emch)
13. 03:02 PM - Re: Dan Helsper and his Pietenpol at the Poplar Grove Airport (bubbleboy)
14. 06:00 PM - Gasoline questions (helspersew@aol.com)
15. 06:08 PM - Re: Gasoline questions (Gene Rambo)
16. 06:10 PM - Re: Gasoline questions (Gene Rambo)
17. 06:59 PM - Re: Gasoline questions (Jerry Dotson)
18. 07:44 PM - Re: Gasoline questions (Billy McCaskill)
19. 09:47 PM - Re: Pietenpol Flying Video (rvanengen)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Cloudcars Prop Performance |
Dan,
Rather than taking one of your wife's dresses to Brodhead, you could just wear
one of your own. ;)
BC
do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: Cloudcars Prop Performance |
A few years ago I had Ed Sterba carve a prop for me. After a lot of research I
told him I wanted it to be a 76 x 38. When I replaced my 72 x 42 with it I was
very surprised at the performance. Since then I've been able to get a hold
of a Falcon prop that performs close to the same but I just love the looks of
it with the brass leading edge and all. So I sold the Sterba. But the Pietenpol
really does need a larger diameter flatter pitch prop for the engines that
turn somewhere in the 2100 rpm range. All that drag out there really needs
that large prop disk to be effective at the slower speeds.
Glad you are happy with it Jack!
Don Emch
NX899DE
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| Subject: | Cloudcars Prop Performance |
-
Hey Guys,
-
I've been following the discussion about Cloudcars- Props for a little ov
er a year now.
-
Jack, thanks for the excellent data.- I have a Hegy semi scimitar 72 x 42
that I have not yet mounted and tested but now when I do finally get her f
lying, I'll have some solid numbers to compare to.
-
-I have two different Piets I may be able to try it on. One is the chapte
r project,-an 800 pound GN-1 witrh an 0-200, the other is my long fuse Pi
et with an A-65. It may come in around 670 lbs.-
-
Jack, the main difference I see is your 38" pitch. Great climb performance
but what is your cruise performance and what size engine are you using?
-
Jeff Wilson
St. Louis
N899WT
75% done, 74% to go.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Subject: NX929DH update....Model A guys take note |
Don
I can give you my experiences from a few years of Ford and Funk engines. Only a
touch !
I use fresh fuel only if it is "Auto", less than 1 year old.
100 Oct will hold out much longer 2 years in a can , and works.
Now. I have mentioned a number of times the following.
I used to mix Marvel with all fuel, and didn't have a problem, I have been using
a different mix, with the hottest plugs available I.E.,& at the same mix ratio
: Amsoil 2 cycle oil : , Clearances of all valves .012", 7.5:1 compression.Never
a stuck valve ! !
I have run out of water an flew and added 30 min. oil temps over 350 Deg. and still
never damaged my Ford. I run inserts and a few mods if you are interested
in the old stuff.
I am now trying a horizontal flow radiator, that allows 10" open area up to the
wing, and fly very differently. Will be at brodhead again.
Pieti Lowell
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| Subject: | Cloudcars Prop Performance |
Actually I think the 76" diameter has more effect than the lower pitch. It
allows 11% more swept area, moving a larger column of air.
Cruise performance with the Sensenich 72 x 40: 2150 RPM yields 65 mph
Cruise performance with the Cloudcars: 2150 RPM yields 69 mph
Calculating efficiencies based on the above gives an efficiency for the
Sensenich of 79.83%. The Cloudcars has an efficiency of 89.20%.
The combination of moving more air and doing it more efficiently is the key
to the Cloudcars performance.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Smith Mountin Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jeff wilson
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 9:24 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cloudcars Prop Performance
Hey Guys,
I've been following the discussion about Cloudcars Props for a little over
a year now.
Jack, thanks for the excellent data. I have a Hegy semi scimitar 72 x 42
that I have not yet mounted and tested but now when I do finally get her
flying, I'll have some solid numbers to compare to.
I have two different Piets I may be able to try it on. One is the chapter
project, an 800 pound GN-1 witrh an 0-200, the other is my long fuse Piet
with an A-65. It may come in around 670 lbs.
Jack, the main difference I see is your 38" pitch. Great climb performance
but what is your cruise performance and what size engine are you using?
Jeff Wilson
St. Louis
N899WT
75% done, 74% to go.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Cloudcars prop performance |
Jack, glad you got the kind of performance improvement you were hoping for.
I wonder what I would get with a longer prop like you got. Mine's 72 X 44
but I'm very satisfied with the performance. Now less worries about getting
over those West Va mountains.
Matt Paxton
NX629ML
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Twin Rivers flying |
Sorry Gene. With the Piet's first flight date in '29, I had that on the
brain. Sure good to see you and the Travel Air and great that you brought
Will, Peter and Peter.
Matt
Message 8
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| Subject: | Cloudcars Prop Performance |
Jack,
Stunning! Your 30% performance increase may be even better than what we get
! No question, the CC prop was the biggest performance gain per dollar (and
per unit of effort) that we've seen out our Piet.
Jeff Boatright
PS: It looks great, too!
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Cloudcars Prop Performance |
On 06/21/2011 05:09 AM, Bill Church wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bill Church"<billspiet@sympatico.ca>
>
> Dan,
> Rather than taking one of your wife's dresses to Brodhead, you could just wear
one of your own. ;)
I didn't want to be a barber anyway. I wanted to be a Lumberjack!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zey8567bcg
oh no. no no no
do not archive
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Cloudcars Prop Performance |
If you want to be a lumberjack, Dan, that's ok!
:)
do not archive
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343665#343665
Message 11
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I'm interested if anyone has found a diesel engine suitable for a
Pietenpol.The name Chris Rusch came up as a possible diesel engine user.I
don't see his name in the posts etc.Anyone know anything on this subject?
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Dan Helsper and his Pietenpol at the Poplar Grove |
Airport
I think you are having way too much fun Dan! Very Nice!!!
Don Emch
NX899DE
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| Subject: | Re: Dan Helsper and his Pietenpol at the Poplar Grove |
Airport
After watching that I got off my rear end and glued rib 31! Very inspirational!
Thanks for posting that Dan!
Scotty
--------
Scotty
Tamworth, Australia
Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper
www.scottyspietenpol.com
Rudder, Vert stab, Elevators and 30 Ribs built...
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Message 14
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| Subject: | Gasoline questions |
Ok, I guess I don't get it.
In the last day or so there have been several posts detailing anecdotal exp
eriences with the use of different gasolines, comparing 100LL, unleaded aut
o fuel etc. Some of the posts blamed the lead for fouling of plugs, and als
o sticking of valves, and the implication was that the lead was a "bad" thi
ng. When I went to A&P school, oh those many years ago, I can recall that t
he reason for the lead was that there was some advantage to scavenging of e
xhaust gasses. Seeing that the addition of lead to gasoline was the norm fo
r many decades, I can only assume that the lead was added for a reason, cre
ating some advantage in engine performance. The old 100 octane aviation gas
oline had much more lead than the modern 100LL. The "wizards of smart" that
were responsible for such things must have had a good reason for leaving s
ome lead in the 100LL. How can the little bit of lead that is now used be r
esponsible for plug and valve problems, but for all those previous decades
it was just fine and dandy?
Anyone with an opinion, informed or not, please chime-in so I can be enligh
tened (or entertained at least) :O)
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Gasoline questions |
Lead lubricates valves. The stuff on plugs is CARBON, not lead.
Gene Rambo
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 21, 2011, at 8:58 PM, helspersew@aol.com wrote:
> Ok, I guess I don't get it.
>
> In the last day or so there have been several posts detailing anecdotal ex
periences with the use of different gasolines, comparing 100LL, unleaded aut
o fuel etc. Some of the posts blamed the lead for fouling of plugs, and also
sticking of valves, and the implication was that the lead was a "bad" thing
. When I went to A&P school, oh those many years ago, I can recall that the r
eason for the lead was that there was some advantage to scavenging of exhaus
t gasses. Seeing that the addition of lead to gasoline was the norm for many
decades, I can only assume that the lead was added for a reason, creating s
ome advantage in engine performance. The old 100 octane aviation gasoline ha
d much more lead than the modern 100LL. The "wizards of smart" that were res
ponsible for such things must have had a good reason for leaving some lead i
n the 100LL. How can the little bit of lead that is now used be responsible f
or plug and valve problems, but for all those previous decades it was just f
ine and dandy?
>
> Anyone with an opinion, informed or not, please chime-in so I can be enlig
htened (or entertained at least) :O)
>
> Dan Helsper
> Puryear, TN.
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Gasoline questions |
And, tetraethyl lead boosts octane, but I am no chemist.
Gene Rambo
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 21, 2011, at 8:58 PM, helspersew@aol.com wrote:
> Ok, I guess I don't get it.
>
> In the last day or so there have been several posts detailing anecdotal ex
periences with the use of different gasolines, comparing 100LL, unleaded aut
o fuel etc. Some of the posts blamed the lead for fouling of plugs, and also
sticking of valves, and the implication was that the lead was a "bad" thing
. When I went to A&P school, oh those many years ago, I can recall that the r
eason for the lead was that there was some advantage to scavenging of exhaus
t gasses. Seeing that the addition of lead to gasoline was the norm for many
decades, I can only assume that the lead was added for a reason, creating s
ome advantage in engine performance. The old 100 octane aviation gasoline ha
d much more lead than the modern 100LL. The "wizards of smart" that were res
ponsible for such things must have had a good reason for leaving some lead i
n the 100LL. How can the little bit of lead that is now used be responsible f
or plug and valve problems, but for all those previous decades it was just f
ine and dandy?
>
> Anyone with an opinion, informed or not, please chime-in so I can be enlig
htened (or entertained at least) :O)
>
> Dan Helsper
> Puryear, TN.
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Gasoline questions |
Here are some links that might clear the air a little. I will state my opinion
and it is no engine with a compression ratio of 7.0 or less needs any lead at
all. Lead is an octane booster. Read the Shell link closely.
http://www.shell.com/home/content/aviation/aeroshell/technical_talk/techart18_30071600.html
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/tech_support/spark_plugs/faqs/faqread.asp
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
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Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Gasoline questions |
I have always heard that lead protected the valves and the valve seats, which is
why cars manufactured prior to the introduction of unleaded gas did not use
hardened valve seats. I've seen cylinder heads from the 1960's and 70's where
the valve seats have receded into the heads from excessive running on no-lead
fuel. It is recommended to have hardened valve seats installed in vintage cylinder
heads if you plan to drive the car (or fly the plane, Corvair guys) a lot
on today's formulation of automotive gasoline.
I have also heard that the lead increased the 'knock-resistance" of the fuel, probably
from creating a higher octane rating as Gene mentioned... Anybody who
was driving in the 60's and early 70's will remember that the "low grade" gas
was 94 octane, and "Super" 103-108 octane was common in gas stations back then.
The owner's manual for my 1967 Ford Fairlane 500 with the 200hp 289 specifies
that the car be run on a MINIMUM of 94 octane gas, and if the car were to
have the 300 0r 325hp, 390 cubic inch engine, they recommended 97 or higher.
At the pump today, 93 is about the BEST you'll find although I do occasionally
see 95 octane available at some Shell stations.
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
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Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Flying Video |
Makes me grin just watching...got the plans and starting to get the garage cleared
out (and an A/C unit installed). :D
--------
--Randall
02xB || !02xB
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