Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:10 AM - Re: Cloudcars Prop Performance (Clif Dawson)
2. 03:36 AM - Re: Re: Gasoline questions (Jack)
3. 03:45 AM - Subject: Gasoline questions (Donald Lane)
4. 04:31 AM - Re: Gasoline questions (Jerry Dotson)
5. 04:57 AM - Re: Re: Gasoline questions (helspersew@aol.com)
6. 05:13 AM - Re: Gasoline questions (Ben Charvet)
7. 06:32 AM - Re: Cloudcars Prop Performance (Michael Perez)
8. 06:54 AM - Re: Gasoline questions (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG FORSCOM)
9. 07:04 AM - Re: Cloudcars Prop Performance (Bill Church)
10. 07:30 AM - Re: Re: Cloudcars Prop Performance (Michael Perez)
11. 07:33 AM - Re: Re: Cloudcars Prop Performance (Michael Perez)
12. 07:38 AM - Re: Gasoline questions (AircamperN11MS)
13. 07:39 AM - Re: Gasoline questions (Jack Phillips)
14. 07:41 AM - Re: Re: Cloudcars Prop Performance (Ryan Mueller)
15. 07:50 AM - Lead on Skark plugs. (Barry Davis)
16. 07:50 AM - Re: Gasoline questions (Kip and Beth Gardner)
17. 08:05 AM - Re: Gasoline questions (Jerry Dotson)
18. 08:06 AM - Re: Gasoline questions (AircamperN11MS)
19. 08:14 AM - Re: Lead on Skark plugs. (Jerry Dotson)
20. 09:17 AM - Re: Re: Cloudcars Prop Performance (Jim Markle)
21. 09:41 AM - Corvair College #20 (coxwelljon)
22. 10:33 AM - Re: Cloudcars Prop Performance (Jeff Wilson)
23. 11:15 AM - Re: Cloudcars Prop Performance (jarheadpilot82)
24. 11:18 AM - Re: Corvair College #20 (jarheadpilot82)
25. 11:21 AM - Re: Re: Gasoline questions (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG FORSCOM)
26. 11:25 AM - Re: Gasoline questions (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG FORSCOM)
27. 01:09 PM - Osh - Brodhead (Dick N)
28. 01:15 PM - Re: Osh - Brodhead (K5YAC)
29. 01:29 PM - Re: Osh - Brodhead (dog67@aol.com)
30. 02:58 PM - Re: Osh - Brodhead (Jack Phillips)
31. 03:25 PM - Cloud Car Scimitars (jeff wilson)
32. 04:07 PM - Re: Re: Cloudcars Prop Performance (helspersew@aol.com)
33. 05:05 PM - Re: Osh - Brodhead (kevinpurtee)
34. 07:40 PM - Re: Re: Cloudcars Prop Performance (Ryan Mueller)
35. 07:47 PM - Re: Osh - Brodhead (Don Emch)
36. 07:53 PM - Re: Osh - Brodhead (K5YAC)
37. 07:54 PM - Re: Re: Gasoline questions (Clif Dawson)
38. 08:08 PM - engine mounted (bender)
39. 08:50 PM - Re: Re: Osh - Brodhead (Dick N)
40. 09:01 PM - clipped wing Stinson takeoff (off topic, but educational) (Oscar Zuniga)
41. 09:23 PM - Re: Corvair College #20 (coxwelljon)
42. 10:23 PM - Brodhead fuel status? (Greg Cardinal)
43. 10:23 PM - Re: engine mounted (aerocarjake)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Cloudcars Prop Performance |
Don't forget that some makers use the flat side of the
blade as reference for pitch and others use the
airfoil chord line. Two different 40" pitch props may
not be the same pitch at all.
That info is important for any meaningful comparison.
Clif
Cruise performance with the Sensenich 72 x 40: 2150 RPM yields 65 mph
Cruise performance with the Cloudcars: 2150 RPM yields 69 mph
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Smith Mountin Lake, Virginia
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
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Subject: | Re: Gasoline questions |
Jerry, excellent articles! Thanks for sharing!
Jack
DSM
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Dotson
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:58 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Gasoline questions
<jdotson@centurylink.net>
Here are some links that might clear the air a little. I will state my
opinion and it is no engine with a compression ratio of 7.0 or less needs
any lead at all. Lead is an octane booster. Read the Shell link closely.
http://www.shell.com/home/content/aviation/aeroshell/technical_talk/techart1
8_30071600.html
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/tech_support/spark_plugs/faqs/faqread.asp
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343700#343700
Message 3
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Subject: | Gasoline questions |
Thanks to everyone for the advice on fuel for the A engine.
I have the engine down now to redo the exhaust stacks. I will keep the
valves well oiled in the meantime and maybe put a little oil in the fuel
when I restart it.
Don L
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Subject: | Re: Gasoline questions |
I have a pretty good bit of auto gas experience but not in recent years. We ran
auto gas in a Pawnee with an O-540 235 HP and a Stearman with a P&W 985 in the
70's. That gas had some lead in it. Then a Cessna 150 with an O-320 150 HP off
a Piper Apache for several years with zero problems. The gas I ran in the Cessna
150 was unleaded 89 octane from Standard Oil. Filled it from my 500 gallon
tank. I never got past the smell. The only difference I could tell between
avgas and auto gas was the smell.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343742#343742
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Gasoline questions |
Great articles Jerry. This info will have to be digested. In my case I gues
s it will be a process of trial and error to see what works best. Thanks fo
r chiming in.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN.
do not archive
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Gasoline questions |
I've heard lots of stories of sticking valves in small continentals like
the A-65 when using 100LL. I've been told its because they don't run
hot enough to prevent the lead from depositing on the shaft of the
valve, causing it to bind in the guide. An old A&P that was expaining it
to me called it 100*L*otsa *L*ead. I live in Florida, and rarely see
my oil temps above 140. Another thing to consider is the difference in
specific gravity between 100LL and auto gas. This effectively changes
the float level, which changes your mixture. When I rebuilt my carb, I
used non-ethanol auto gas to set the float level
On 6/21/2011 8:58 PM, helspersew@aol.com wrote:
Ben Charvet
Expected 103 Heat index today. Probably 2000' density altitude at 35 msl
Titusville, Fl
> Ok, I guess I don't get it.
> In the last day or so there have been several posts detailing
> anecdotal experiences with the use of different gasolines, comparing
> 100LL, unleaded auto fuel etc. Some of the posts blamed the lead for
> fouling of plugs, and also sticking of valves, and the implication was
> that the lead was a "bad" thing. When I went to A&P school, oh those
> many years ago, I can recall that the reason for the lead was that
> there was some advantage to scavenging of exhaust gasses. Seeing that
> the addition of lead to gasoline was the norm for many decades, I can
> only assume that the lead was added for a reason, creating some
> advantage in engine performance. The old 100 octane aviation gasoline
> had much more lead than the modern 100LL. The "wizards of smart" that
> were responsible for such things must have had a good reason for
> leaving some lead in the 100LL. How can the little bit of lead that is
> now used be responsible for plug and valve problems, but for all those
> previous decades it was just fine and dandy?
> Anyone with an opinion, informed or not, please chime-in so I can be
> enlightened (or entertained at least) :O)
> Dan Helsper
> Puryear, TN.
> *
>
>
> *
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
Message 7
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Subject: | Cloudcars Prop Performance |
I seem to remember a post a while back about these props having a "short li
fe span". I don't remember any details other then the person was looking in
to buying a new prop and said one draw back tothe Cloudcarse props was a sh
ort life span.- Anyone have details on this?
Michael Perez
=0AKaretaker Aero
=0Awww.karetakeraero.com
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Gasoline questions |
My airport coffee discussions lead me to believe that plug fowling is more of a
problem on the early engines that were OK with 80 Octane than on engines that
require the higher octane.
While I will probably be able to fly my old Bonanza on anything with the octane
of hair oil, There is concern that suddenly stopping the use of 100 LL with no
replacement could ground 20 % of our fleet. That affects everyone who flies.
We don't need a divot like that in our pilot population.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
----- Original Message -----
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gasoline questions
> I've heard lots of stories of sticking valves in small continentals
> like
> the A-65 when using 100LL. I've been told its because they don't
> run
> hot enough to prevent the lead from depositing on the shaft of the
> valve, causing it to bind in the guide. An old A&P that was
> expaining it
> to me called it 100*L*otsa *L*ead. I live in Florida, and rarely
> see
> my oil temps above 140. Another thing to consider is the
> difference in
> specific gravity between 100LL and auto gas. This effectively
> changes
> the float level, which changes your mixture. When I rebuilt my
> carb, I
> used non-ethanol auto gas to set the float level
> On 6/21/2011 8:58 PM, helspersew@aol.com wrote:
>
> Ben Charvet
> Expected 103 Heat index today. Probably 2000' density altitude at
> 35 msl
> Titusville, Fl
> > Ok, I guess I don't get it.
> > In the last day or so there have been several posts detailing
> > anecdotal experiences with the use of different gasolines,
> comparing
> > 100LL, unleaded auto fuel etc. Some of the posts blamed the lead
> for
> > fouling of plugs, and also sticking of valves, and the
> implication was
> > that the lead was a "bad" thing. When I went to A&P school, oh
> those
> > many years ago, I can recall that the reason for the lead was
> that
> > there was some advantage to scavenging of exhaust gasses. Seeing
> that
> > the addition of lead to gasoline was the norm for many decades, I
> can
> > only assume that the lead was added for a reason, creating some
> > advantage in engine performance. The old 100 octane aviation
> gasoline
> > had much more lead than the modern 100LL. The "wizards of smart"
> that
> > were responsible for such things must have had a good reason for
> > leaving some lead in the 100LL. How can the little bit of lead
> that is
> > now used be responsible for plug and valve problems, but for all
> those
> > previous decades it was just fine and dandy?
> > Anyone with an opinion, informed or not, please chime-in so I can
> be
> > enlightened (or entertained at least) :O)
> > Dan Helsper
> > Puryear, TN.
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
>
>
> --
> Ben Charvet, PharmD
> Staff Pharmacist
> Parrish Medical center
>
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Cloudcars Prop Performance |
The unsubstantiated "short life span" claim was regarding scimitar propellers in
general, NOT Cloudcars propellers. However, Cloudcars did issue a response when
the question was posed:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=69612
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343760#343760
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Cloudcars Prop Performance |
Thanks Bill.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Cloudcars Prop Performance |
For those of us whom use these propellers, how do they compare in price to other
appropriately sized propellers? I am very interested in using one when the time
comes.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Gasoline questions |
I am flying behind stock Cont. C-85-12F engine with the old style cylinder heads.
I have an all metal fuel system except for an 8" piece of aircraft quality
air-quip hose between the gascolator and carb. I have a metal float and needle
and seat in my carb. Here is my experience with auto and 100LL. I have found
that when I run pure auto gas that it is a little harder to start but still
easy to do whether the engine is hot or cold. If I run the auto gas for a few
hundred hours without the Marvel Mystery oil in the gas, I risk sticking an
exhaust valve on the right front cylinder. The fix is to just remove the exhaust
valve and run a 7/16" reamer through the guide, hand lap the valve and re
assemble it. Now if I run 100LL it will start with less priming and will flood
easier when hot. If pure 100LL is run for about 60 to 80hours I will be blessed
with a lead fowled lower plug. All that being said, I typically will fill
up with auto one time and 100LL the next time without the use of the Marvel
Mystery oil. I have never had a problem with this method and it is easy to do
if you are just flying locally. Out here on the west coast we don't have Mogas
available at the airports. One other point I must make. Because I have an
all metal fuel system and don't fly above 9000 feet, I have never been concerned
with the auto gas additives (alcohol and ethanol) and have not had any engine
problems related to them. Maybe I am just lucky.
Your results may vary, [/b]
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343766#343766
Message 13
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Subject: | Gasoline questions |
100 Octane (the green stuff) had 10 times the amount of lead that was in
80/87 (the old red stuff). 100LL (the blue stuff) has less lead that 100,
but it still has 4 times as much as 80 Octane had.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Charvet
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 8:11 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gasoline questions
I've heard lots of stories of sticking valves in small continentals like the
A-65 when using 100LL. I've been told its because they don't run hot enough
to prevent the lead from depositing on the shaft of the valve, causing it to
bind in the guide. An old A&P that was expaining it to me called it 100
Lotsa Lead. I live in Florida, and rarely see my oil temps above 140.
Another thing to consider is the difference in specific gravity between
100LL and auto gas. This effectively changes the float level, which changes
your mixture. When I rebuilt my carb, I used non-ethanol auto gas to set
the float level
On 6/21/2011 8:58 PM, helspersew@aol.com wrote:
Ben Charvet
Expected 103 Heat index today. Probably 2000' density altitude at 35 msl
Titusville, Fl
Ok, I guess I don't get it.
In the last day or so there have been several posts detailing anecdotal
experiences with the use of different gasolines, comparing 100LL, unleaded
auto fuel etc. Some of the posts blamed the lead for fouling of plugs, and
also sticking of valves, and the implication was that the lead was a "bad"
thing. When I went to A&P school, oh those many years ago, I can recall that
the reason for the lead was that there was some advantage to scavenging of
exhaust gasses. Seeing that the addition of lead to gasoline was the norm
for many decades, I can only assume that the lead was added for a reason,
creating some advantage in engine performance. The old 100 octane aviation
gasoline had much more lead than the modern 100LL. The "wizards of smart"
that were responsible for such things must have had a good reason for
leaving some lead in the 100LL. How can the little bit of lead that is now
used be responsible for plug and valve problems, but for all those previous
decades it was just fine and dandy?
Anyone with an opinion, informed or not, please chime-in so I can be
enlightened (or entertained at least) :O)
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN.
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Cloudcars Prop Performance |
I don't believe it. Why aren't you going to to design your own propeller?
;-)
do not archive
On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 9:31 AM, Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>wrote:
> For those of us whom use these propellers, how do they compare in price to
> other appropriately sized propellers? I am very interested in using one when
> the time comes.
>
> Michael Perez
> Karetaker Aero
> www.karetakeraero.com
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 15
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Subject: | Lead on Skark plugs. |
I wish I had taken more pictures of all the "lead" I flaked out of the
cylinders and out of these plugs. It filled the palm of my hand, twice! This
is the result of a trip from Atlanta to Key West, Fl. One summer, Harold and
I decided to fly to Key West, so off we went. Mike flew with me in the
straight tail 150 and Paul rode along with Harold in his 100HP J3 Cub. On
the trip I had to fly at 1900 to 2050 RPM to be able to fly beside the Cub.
Normally I fly the Cessna at 2550 cruise. At this reduced setting, the
engine never got up to operating temperature. We logged 25 hours of flying
time on this trip over a 10 day period, but did not realize I was having a
problem until about a month later. On landing at Huntsville, AL, I got 2
stuck valves on final at the airport. I got them unstuck and flew back home,
but one valve stuck again when I reduced power at my home airport. I pulled
the cylinders and cleaned about a half pint of chalky tan lead deposits out
of the cylinders and had to really work on the spark plugs. Jump ahead 2
years - The first year that a couple of the Big Piets went to Sun n Fun, I
flew the Cessna with spare parts and tools, just in case we had a problem. I
had the same lead problem flying with the Piets. I had to fly at 1800 to
1900 RPM for 12 hours and got the same leading problem. this time I tried
the "knock the valve into the cylinder" fix and everything is back to
normal. (see article I wrote in the June Sport Aviation)
So the moral of this story is: When the Cubs fly somewhere, I fly my Cub.
When the Cessnas fly, I fly the Cessna, and for the Big Piets, same applies.
Now I have no more lead fouling problems.
Barry
NX973BP
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: Gasoline questions |
Plug Fowling? You have chickens in your cylinders? That would be a real performance
killer :).
Sorry, couldn't help it.
Do not archive.
Kip Gardner
On Jun 22, 2011, at 9:51 AM, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG FORSCOM wrote:
>
> My airport coffee discussions lead me to believe that plug fowling is more of
a problem on the early engines that were OK with 80 Octane than on engines that
require the higher octane.
>
> While I will probably be able to fly my old Bonanza on anything with the octane
of hair oil, There is concern that suddenly stopping the use of 100 LL with
no replacement could ground 20 % of our fleet. That affects everyone who flies.
We don't need a divot like that in our pilot population.
>
> Blue Skies,
> Steve D
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet@gmail.com>
> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 7:18
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gasoline questions
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
>
>> I've heard lots of stories of sticking valves in small continentals
>> like
>> the A-65 when using 100LL. I've been told its because they don't
>> run
>> hot enough to prevent the lead from depositing on the shaft of the
>> valve, causing it to bind in the guide. An old A&P that was
>> expaining it
>> to me called it 100*L*otsa *L*ead. I live in Florida, and rarely
>> see
>> my oil temps above 140. Another thing to consider is the
>> difference in
>> specific gravity between 100LL and auto gas. This effectively
>> changes
>> the float level, which changes your mixture. When I rebuilt my
>> carb, I
>> used non-ethanol auto gas to set the float level
>> On 6/21/2011 8:58 PM, helspersew@aol.com wrote:
>>
>> Ben Charvet
>> Expected 103 Heat index today. Probably 2000' density altitude at
>> 35 msl
>> Titusville, Fl
>>> Ok, I guess I don't get it.
>>> In the last day or so there have been several posts detailing
>>> anecdotal experiences with the use of different gasolines,
>> comparing
>>> 100LL, unleaded auto fuel etc. Some of the posts blamed the lead
>> for
>>> fouling of plugs, and also sticking of valves, and the
>> implication was
>>> that the lead was a "bad" thing. When I went to A&P school, oh
>> those
>>> many years ago, I can recall that the reason for the lead was
>> that
>>> there was some advantage to scavenging of exhaust gasses. Seeing
>> that
>>> the addition of lead to gasoline was the norm for many decades, I
>> can
>>> only assume that the lead was added for a reason, creating some
>>> advantage in engine performance. The old 100 octane aviation
>> gasoline
>>> had much more lead than the modern 100LL. The "wizards of smart"
>> that
>>> were responsible for such things must have had a good reason for
>>> leaving some lead in the 100LL. How can the little bit of lead
>> that is
>>> now used be responsible for plug and valve problems, but for all
>> those
>>> previous decades it was just fine and dandy?
>>> Anyone with an opinion, informed or not, please chime-in so I can
>> be
>>> enlightened (or entertained at least) :O)
>>> Dan Helsper
>>> Puryear, TN.
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ben Charvet, PharmD
>> Staff Pharmacist
>> Parrish Medical center
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: Gasoline questions |
My brother has a Skyranger with 240 hours on the Rotax 912ULS running 93 octane
with 10% ethanol with no problems to date. We can't find any gas without ethanol
in it. The only difference we can tell between the non-ethanol and the 10%
ethanol is it takes a little more per hour but not much more. He has been running
the 10% ethanol since 2007.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343773#343773
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: Gasoline questions |
I didn't think you would catch on to my secret. Yes, the chickens have wings and
wings create lift. That's why my plane climbs so well.
Want to know another secret? If you remove the inspection plates from the bottom
of the wings and then fly upside down, All the lift will fall out. Not good!
Secrets are out.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343774#343774
Message 19
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Subject: | Re: Lead on Skark plugs. |
Barry at that low of a power setting(1900 to 2050 RPM) you can lean your engine
until it starts getting rough and push the mixture back in just far enough to
smooth it up and really help with that problem. You can't hurt an engine at that
low power. Just have to remember before landing to go back full rich in case
of needing a go round. I spotted fish in a 150 Super Cub at just enough power
to keep it airborne for hours at a time. It would gunk up like that if you
didn't lean the heck out of it.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343777#343777
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Subject: | Re: Cloudcars Prop Performance |
After completely re-designing a homebuilt how could anyone have time left to design
a prop????
:-)
-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan Mueller
Sent: Jun 22, 2011 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cloudcars Prop Performance
I don't believe it. Why aren't you going to to design your own propeller? ;-)
do not archive
On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 9:31 AM, Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
For those of us whom use these propellers, how do they compare in price to other
appropriately sized propellers? I am very interested in using one when the time
comes.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Subject: | Corvair College #20 |
This is a little late but I thought I would post anyway for those Corvair guys
or those considering the Corvair engine. Early in the month I loaded my engine
parts and drove some 650 miles to Corvair College #20 in hopes that I could
assemble and run my engine. This was wishful thinking but the experience of attending
was well worth it. I am reconverting an engine that came with a project
and it was supposed to be ready to fly and actually had been run for 5 hrs
static. I got wind of some things that had not been done so I decided to disassemble
my engine and make some changes. I also saw the location of Corvair
College #20 and decided it was happening about as close as I would find to my
location, at least for the foreseeable future.
My engine did not have a nitrided crank or forged pistons which was the main reason
for me deciding to disassemble it. I want to add a pitch here. I found
the name of Advanced Heat Treat Corp. on Mark Langford's website as a place that
does nitriding. This is not the firm that William Wynn recommends but I decided
to use them as they are a company with some 30 years of experience in the
treatment of metals. They also had a competitive price. I sent them my crankshaft
and picked it up at one of their facilities on my way to the CC#20.
I cannot say enough good things about the way I was treated. They went out of
their way to accomodate my situation and I was only getting one crank done by
a facility that is set up to do production work for manufacturing. I even got
a handwritten thank you for my business after I returned home. They would certainly
be my choice again for magnafluxing and nitriding.
Now some about the College. There were about 60 people there and I would say that
there were 20 engines in various stages from disassembly to final running.
I think 12 to 15 engines ran on the test stand. There were also flying examples
of corvair powered aircraft there to look at and talk with the builders.
The following are some of my thoughts.
1. The college did not include "lecture" sessions with handouts or diagrams but
was very much a hands on workshop. That said I was glad I had my engine parts
there to work on and I was not just an onlooker. One can get a lot out of
watching, but the real value for me was actually working with the tools and getting
a feel for what I was doing.
2. You will see a lot of different solution to the same problems so the opportunity
to circulate around and talk to other builders is invaluable. One may have
made up their mind on a particular part to buy or not to buy and the give
and take with other builders is a big advantage.
3. There were 3 experts there and their time obviously got divided up among the
various projects. At times is was necessary to be a little forward to get their
attention, but doing so resulted in how to sessions that benefited the whole
group. If you attend and see a group gathered go see what is going on. It
likely will be something you will also need to do or have done.
4. There was a real sense of sharing of tools, parts, and expertise. My table
mate was continually into my tool box and I was borrowing special tools from
other tables. When I needed to start a particular phase the guy from the table
next to me was there to show me the process as he had already done his. Parts
that I had were used on other engines to get them on the test stand, and my
table mate borrowed a whole starter assembly from another engine to get his on
the test stand.
5. Some lasting friendship were created. I received 2 emails as soon as I got
home from people I met inquiring about my return trip and with promised information.
I got there the day before everything started and 5 of us who did not
know each other went out to dinner together to get acquainted.
6. Food was good and no one went away hungry.
7. I enjoyed getting to know William Wynne, and Roy Szarafinski of Roy's Garageon
on a more personal level which gave me a greater appreciation for their knowledge
and mechanical skills. I now see them as being far more approachable
for questions.
Many people there had attended previous colleges, this was my first. If you are
assembling a corvair engine or plan to consider one for your project then attending
at least one Corvair College should be on your list.
If anyone has particular question about my experience at this College, email me
and I will be happy to respond.
--------
Jon Coxwell
GN-1 Builder
Recycle and preserve the planet
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343783#343783
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Subject: | Re: Cloudcars Prop Performance |
I believe that was in response to scimitar props in general.
A true scimitar prop does a lot of flexing and were used mainly on racers ba
ck in the day. Modern scimitars are a semi- scimitars and more lasting. But I
'm not sure if they are more lasting than say your standard Sensenich.
I have an email from cloud cars explaining this and I'll look it up and post
it later today.
Jeff Wilson
N899WT
St. Louis, MO
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 22, 2011, at 8:28 AM, Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> I seem to remember a post a while back about these props having a "short l
ife span". I don't remember any details other then the person was looking in
to buying a new prop and said one draw back tothe Cloudcarse props was a sho
rt life span. Anyone have details on this?
>
> Michael Perez
> Karetaker Aero
> www.karetakeraero.com
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
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Subject: | Re: Cloudcars Prop Performance |
Could someone explain to me the definition of "rather short life span"? Coming
back into airplane flying that involves a propeller (it has been over 20 years
since I consistently flew an aircraft with a propeller, and that one was metal),
I have no real frame of reference. This discussion of the Scimitar prop has
got me to thinkin' (a dangerous thing, to be sure).
With a wooden prop, what are the indications that you are approaching the end of
the prop's life span? I can imagine that there are preflight indications. Do
indicators manifest themselves in flight? I certainly would hate to find out
what it looks like AFTER the prop has exceeded its life span! What about metal
or composite props? Does anyone fly composite or metal props on a Pietenpol?
Thanks in advance for the information.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343791#343791
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Subject: | Re: Corvair College #20 |
Jon,
Thanks for the really in depth description.
Would it be advisable for someone without a Corvair to attend and just watch? Is
an extra set of hands welcome if all I wanted to do was help someone with their
project and learn a little at the same time?
Thanks again.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343792#343792
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Subject: | Re: Gasoline questions |
NW Oklahoma all the stations have signs that say 100% Gasoline No ethanol. San
Antonio, Texas you can't find ethanol free gas.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jerry Dotson <jdotson@centurylink.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Gasoline questions
>
> My brother has a Skyranger with 240 hours on the Rotax 912ULS running 93 octane
with 10% ethanol with no problems to date. We can't find any gas
> without ethanol in it. The only difference we can tell between the
> non-ethanol and the 10% ethanol is it takes a little more per hour
> but not much more. He has been running the 10% ethanol since 2007.
>
> --------
> Jerry Dotson
> 59 Daniel Johnson Rd
> Baker, FL 32531
>
> Started building NX510JD July, 2009
> wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
> using Lycoming O-235
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343773#343773
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 26
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Subject: | Re: Gasoline questions |
Not only kills performance, the stench of burned feathers is awful.
It ain't funy to mak fun of us suthern ainglish spekers.
BLU skis
Steve D
----- Original Message -----
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gasoline questions
>
> Plug Fowling? You have chickens in your cylinders? That would be a real performance
killer :).
>
> Sorry, couldn't help it.
>
> Do not archive.
>
> Kip Gardner
>
> On Jun 22, 2011, at 9:51 AM, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG FORSCOM wrote:
>
> >
> > My airport coffee discussions lead me to believe that plug fowling is more
of a problem on the early engines that were OK with 80 Octane than on engines
that require the higher octane.
> >
> > While I will probably be able to fly my old Bonanza on anything with the octane
of hair oil, There is concern that suddenly stopping the use of 100 LL with
no replacement could ground 20 % of our fleet. That affects everyone who flies.
We don't need a divot like that in our pilot population.
> >
> > Blue Skies,
> > Steve D
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Ben Charvet <
> > Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 7:18
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gasoline questions
> > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> >
> >
> >> I've heard lots of stories of sticking valves in small continentals
> >> like
> >> the A-65 when using 100LL. I've been told its because they don't
> >> run
> >> hot enough to prevent the lead from depositing on the shaft of the
> >> valve, causing it to bind in the guide. An old A&P that was
> >> expaining it
> >> to me called it 100*L*otsa *L*ead. I live in Florida, and rarely
> >> see
> >> my oil temps above 140. Another thing to consider is the
> >> difference in
> >> specific gravity between 100LL and auto gas. This effectively
> >> changes
> >> the float level, which changes your mixture. When I rebuilt my
> >> carb, I
> >> used non-ethanol auto gas to set the float level
> >> On 6/21/2011 8:58 PM, helspersew@aol.com wrote:
> >>
> >> Ben Charvet
> >> Expected 103 Heat index today. Probably 2000' density altitude at
> >> 35 msl
> >> Titusville, Fl
> >>> Ok, I guess I don't get it.
> >>> In the last day or so there have been several posts detailing
> >>> anecdotal experiences with the use of different gasolines,
> >> comparing
> >>> 100LL, unleaded auto fuel etc. Some of the posts blamed the lead
> >> for
> >>> fouling of plugs, and also sticking of valves, and the
> >> implication was
> >>> that the lead was a "bad" thing. When I went to A&P school, oh
> >> those
> >>> many years ago, I can recall that the reason for the lead was
> >> that
> >>> there was some advantage to scavenging of exhaust gasses. Seeing
> >> that
> >>> the addition of lead to gasoline was the norm for many decades, I
> >> can
> >>> only assume that the lead was added for a reason, creating some
> >>> advantage in engine performance. The old 100 octane aviation
> >> gasoline
> >>> had much more lead than the modern 100LL. The "wizards of smart"
> >> that
> >>> were responsible for such things must have had a good reason for
> >>> leaving some lead in the 100LL. How can the little bit of lead
> >> that is
> >>> now used be responsible for plug and valve problems, but for all
> >> those
> >>> previous decades it was just fine and dandy?
> >>> Anyone with an opinion, informed or not, please chime-in so I can
> >> be
> >>> enlightened (or entertained at least) :O)
> >>> Dan Helsper
> >>> Puryear, TN.
> >>> *
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> *
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Ben Charvet, PharmD
> >> Staff Pharmacist
> >> Parrish Medical center
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Is anybody going up to OSH after Brodhead. It would be nice to a group
fly thing like 2 years ago. I am going up on
Sun am. if weather is good.
Dick N.
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Subject: | Re: Osh - Brodhead |
My family and I are going up, but we'll have to wave to you from Hwy 151. :-(
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343804#343804
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Subject: | Re: Osh - Brodhead |
I am, but my Piet is still under construction, so it'll be in the yellow pl
astic plane.
But will still be drooling over the "real" planes
Cheers
Jon Apfelbaum
(Glastar N767JA)
-----Original Message-----
From: Dick N <horzpool@goldengate.net>
Sent: Wed, Jun 22, 2011 10:10 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Osh - Brodhead
Is anybody going up to OSH after Brodhead. It would be nice to a group fly
thing like 2 years ago. I am going up on
Sun am. if weather is good.
Dick N.
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Me too. And I think Matt Paxton will bring his new ship there after
Brodhead. Randy Bush was talking about going as well, if we could get a
group going.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick N
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 4:07 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Osh - Brodhead
Is anybody going up to OSH after Brodhead. It would be nice to a group fly
thing like 2 years ago. I am going up on
Sun am. if weather is good.
Dick N.
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Subject: | Cloud Car Scimitars |
>From March of 2010
-
In reply to the comments about our propellers' lifespan.....
Before everyone goes into a panic, I'd like to clear up a possible misunder
standing!!!!
The Scimitars that we cut are NOT "true functioning" Scimitars. They are a
"profile
Scimitar" (basically like a club profile). All propeller blades will flex.
A true functioning Scimitar is designed to flex a lot more than a conventio
nal propeller, and along more of the blade span. On a true functioning Scim
itar the lams are vertical instead of horizontal, so as to amplify the wood
s flexing characteristics. This is not so with our Scimitars.
Our lams are a conventional horizontal sandwich or stack, just like Senseni
ch and others.
The airfoil is cut the same also. There is a slight flexing at the tip, whi
ch is common in all propellers, especially those with a blade sweep. I'm no
t sure how someone came up with 500 hours.....all woods have different char
acteristics and there is no way this could be applied in a concrete way. If
any of you guys have knowledge of bow making/archery, especially long bows
...this might help to explain the different characteristics of wood elastic
ity.
You won't find us on the internet, we don't have a website, or advertise an
y more.
All of our business is by referral and word of mouth.
If you have any questions or concerns, please contact me.
Jay Anderson
CLOUDCARS
cloudcars(at)verizon.net
325-356-2810
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Subject: | Re: Cloudcars Prop Performance |
HEY! What's wrong with that?
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN.
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com>
Sent: Wed, Jun 22, 2011 9:41 am
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cloudcars Prop Performance
I don't believe it. Why aren't you going to to design your own propeller?
;-)
do not archive
On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 9:31 AM, Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net> w
rote:
For those of us whom use these propellers, how do they compare in price to
other appropriately sized propellers? I am very interested in using one whe
n the time comes.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
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Subject: | Re: Osh - Brodhead |
I'll go with you, Dick (Good Lord willin' and the creek don't rise).
My stock gas tank gives me short legs so I refuel at Watertown to handle any potential
delays arriving at OSH. We can work the logistics and timing of that
at C37.
do not archive
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343831#343831
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Subject: | Re: Cloudcars Prop Performance |
The main issue with short life span....is overthinking. There is no issue
On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 1:12 PM, jarheadpilot82
<jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>wrote:
> jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>
>
> Could someone explain to me the definition of "rather short life span"?
> Coming back into airplane flying that involves a propeller (it has been over
> 20 years since I consistently flew an aircraft with a propeller, and that
> one was metal), I have no real frame of reference. This discussion of the
> Scimitar prop has got me to thinkin' (a dangerous thing, to be sure).
>
> With a wooden prop, what are the indications that you are approaching the
> end of the prop's life span? I can imagine that there are preflight
> indications. Do indicators manifest themselves in flight? I certainly would
> hate to find out what it looks like AFTER the prop has exceeded its life
> span! What about metal or composite props? Does anyone fly composite or
> metal props on a Pietenpol?
>
> Thanks in advance for the information.
>
> --------
> Semper Fi,
>
> Terry
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343791#343791
>
>
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|
Subject: | Re: Osh - Brodhead |
You guys are making me want to just burn all my vacation time and go to OSH too!
Hmmmm... decisions...decisions!
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343841#343841
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Subject: | Re: Osh - Brodhead |
Don Emch wrote:
> You guys are making me want to just burn all my vacation time and go to OSH too!
Hmmmm... decisions...decisions!
>
> Don Emch
> NX899DE
I'm burning most of mine... let's all go!
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343844#343844
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Subject: | Re: Gasoline questions |
Are we talkin' a larger version of this puppy??
http://www.markfelling.com/id385.htm
Clif
do not archive
> I didn't think you would catch on to my secret. Yes, the chickens have
> wings and wings create lift. That's why my plane climbs so well.
> Secrets are out.
> Scott Liefeld
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|
i've watched Dan's flying video 50 times i'm sure....i'm jealous so i set my engine
in place today after painting the intake and making a wedge for the carb
out of aluminum instead of cutting the intake itself.... makes it look closer
to done
jeff in stormy louisville
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343850#343850
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/carb_135.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/engine_181.jpg
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Subject: | Re: Osh - Brodhead |
Hey Kevin
Great to hear you are on board. We will be able to make an event out of
this yet.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 7:03 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Osh - Brodhead
> <kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>
>
> I'll go with you, Dick (Good Lord willin' and the creek don't rise).
>
> My stock gas tank gives me short legs so I refuel at Watertown to handle
> any potential delays arriving at OSH. We can work the logistics and
> timing of that at C37.
>
> do not archive
>
> --------
> Kevin "Axel" Purtee
> NX899KP
> Austin/Georgetown, TX
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343831#343831
>
>
>
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Subject: | clipped wing Stinson takeoff (off topic, but educational) |
It's a 108-3=2C with an 6A4-165-B3 Franklin in it.
Go to http://tinyurl.com/3hx847q
A short=2C but instructional=2C video concerning planning your takeoff.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket"
Medford=2C OR (soon to be Eagle Point=2C Oregon)
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
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Subject: | Re: Corvair College #20 |
There were 60 people in attendance and only 20 engines. Many were only lookers.
If you wanted to team up with someone I am sure your help would be welcomed.
Get there early and look for someone who is disassembling an engine or has
lots of parts. They will be the ones that need the most help. Just ask if you
can help for the experience. If you could do that I think the experience would
be more beneficial. I am a hands on person and I retain more if I can actually
do some work.
One thing I failed to mention was that discussion of politics and religion were
off limits. I thought that was a real breath of fresh air.
--------
Jon Coxwell
GN-1 Builder
Recycle and preserve the planet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343858#343858
Message 42
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Subject: | Brodhead fuel status? |
What is the status of fuel availability at Brodhead this year?
Greg C.
Message 43
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Subject: | Re: engine mounted |
Beautiful......!
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343861#343861
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