Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:03 AM - Axel's visit (TOM STINEMETZE)
2. 07:47 AM - source for Eisemann magneto parts? (Dan Yocum)
3. 08:11 AM - Re: source for Eisemann magneto parts? (Perry Rhoads)
4. 08:29 AM - Re: source for Eisemann magneto parts? (Dan Yocum)
5. 09:08 AM - Wing Strut Cable Length Change (Michael Perez)
6. 09:12 AM - Re: source for Eisemann magneto parts? (gboothe5@comcast.net)
7. 09:57 AM - Where to find good, cheap turnbuckles (John Kuhfahl)
8. 10:12 AM - Re: Where to find good, cheap turnbuckles (John Franklin)
9. 10:51 AM - Re: Where to find good, cheap turnbuckles (Michael Perez)
10. 10:54 AM - Re: Wing Strut Cable Length Change (Jerry Dotson)
11. 11:04 AM - Re: Where to find good, cheap turnbuckles (John Kuhfahl)
12. 12:46 PM - Re: Re: GA 30-613.5 airfoil drawings. (jdominguez8826@comcast.net)
13. 01:00 PM - Re: GA 30-613.5 airfoil drawings. (Billy McCaskill)
14. 01:10 PM - cabanes (Robert S. Edson)
15. 01:35 PM - Re: Wing Strut Cable Length Change (kevinpurtee)
16. 01:39 PM - Re: Axel's visit (kevinpurtee)
17. 01:44 PM - Re: cabanes (Billy McCaskill)
18. 01:59 PM - Re: Wing Strut Cable Length Change (Ben Charvet)
19. 02:01 PM - Re: cabanes (Dan Yocum)
20. 02:23 PM - Made it home (kevinpurtee)
21. 03:25 PM - A Great big Thank You To Kevin and Shelly (shad bell)
22. 04:06 PM - Re: A Great big Thank You To Kevin and Shelly (helspersew@aol.com)
23. 04:18 PM - Re: cabanes (Pieti Lowell)
24. 04:21 PM - Re: GA 30-613.5 airfoil drawings. (Billy McCaskill)
25. 04:27 PM - Re: GA 30-613.5 airfoil drawings. (Pieti Lowell)
26. 05:07 PM - Re: skytek struts (bender)
27. 05:18 PM - Re: Made it home (Jack)
28. 05:49 PM - Re: Made it home (tkreiner)
29. 06:36 PM - Re: A Great big Thank You To Kevin and Shelly (Jack Phillips)
30. 06:39 PM - Re: A Great big Thank You To Kevin and Shelly (Ryan Mueller)
31. 07:16 PM - Re: Re: GA 30-613.5 airfoil drawings. (jdominguez8826@comcast.net)
32. 07:37 PM - Piet vs. GN-1 (FlyBoy57)
33. 07:40 PM - Re: source for Eisemann magneto parts? (Don Emch)
34. 08:02 PM - Re: cabanes (Bill Princell)
35. 08:29 PM - Re: Piet vs. GN-1 (Billy McCaskill)
36. 09:07 PM - Re: Made it home (K5YAC)
37. 11:03 PM - Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
38. 11:05 PM - Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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OMG! I got a ride in FBG. (And that's pretty much all of the modern
speak that I know)
Kevin "Axel" Purtee made a huge deviation from his straight route back
from Oshkosh just for the purpose of giving me a ride AND IT WAS
MARVELOUS! I got some good video which I will upload once I figure out
how but in the meantime I just want to wax poetic about how great it is
to get to do something like this at my advanced age (61). It's about
all my poor heart could take. Unfortunately Axel and Shelly could not
stick around for the wineing and dining part (well home grown steak and
root beer anyway) since they had been held up by weather and had to make
up time. I will return the favor one of these days though!
Anyway, the density altitude here in McPherson was 5,000+ due to the
100+ temps and you know how much hotter it gets on a concrete ramp.
With my substantial mass added to a full tank of gas and Kevin's more
reasonable weight, FBG was pretty much at gross. In spite of that,
however, the mighty Corvair lifted us up with authority and performed
flawlessly throughout. What a nice airplane and a great couple! What a
shot in the arm!
That was my first flight in a Pietenpol, my first flight behind a
Corvair, and only my second flight in an open cockpit. I am STOKED as
the surfer dudes like to say.
And, by the way Axel, "I am not worthy."
Tom Stinemetze
McPherson, KS.
Message 2
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Subject: | source for Eisemann magneto parts? |
Hi all,
Does anyone have a source for Eisemann mag parts? It seems that the
contactor spring has "sprung" on the left mag on N8031.
Thanks,
Dan
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: source for Eisemann magneto parts? |
Fresno Airparts
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Yocum" <yocum137@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 9:45 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: source for Eisemann magneto parts?
>
> Hi all,
>
> Does anyone have a source for Eisemann mag parts? It seems that the
> contactor spring has "sprung" on the left mag on N8031.
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: source for Eisemann magneto parts? |
Thanks Perry - I just sent them an email through TAP, though I've heard
it's better just to call them. If I don't hear back in a day or so,
I'll give them a ring.
And, thanks again, for helping me get my engine running this year.
Say, why didn't you fly your Piet up this year?
Dan
On 08/01/2011 10:08 AM, Perry Rhoads wrote:
> <prhoads61@frontiernet.net>
>
> Fresno Airparts
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Yocum" <yocum137@gmail.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 9:45 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: source for Eisemann magneto parts?
>
>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Does anyone have a source for Eisemann mag parts? It seems that the
>> contactor spring has "sprung" on the left mag on N8031.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Dan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
Message 5
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Subject: | Wing Strut Cable Length Change |
Crew, I am wrapping up the work involved with attaching the wings and =0Awi
ng struts, running the aileron cables, making cable guides, etc. One =0Aof
the last steps prior to taking it all apart is to make my wing strut =0Asup
port cables. I have my wings angled back, but I have no idea if this =0Ais
in fact, where they will end up. (no engine right now)- I am =0Awondering
if I make the wing strut support cables now and latter end up =0Amoving th
e wing to a different set back angle, will the cables still =0Afit?- Look
ing at the geometry, it appears to me that the wings would =0Ahave to move
A LOT before the cables/turnbuckles would run out of travel=0A and need to
be re-made, but I want to be sure. Remember, I use the swage on fittings, s
o I only get one shot at getting the length correct.
Thanks.
Michael Perez
=0AKaretaker Aero
=0Awww.karetakeraero.com
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: source for Eisemann magneto parts? |
Dan,
I'm going to be in Fresno next week, if it's any help.
Gary
------Original Message------
From: Dan Yocum
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
ReplyTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: source for Eisemann magneto parts?
Sent: Aug 1, 2011 8:26 AM
Thanks Perry - I just sent them an email through TAP, though I've heard
it's better just to call them. If I don't hear back in a day or so,
I'll give them a ring.
And, thanks again, for helping me get my engine running this year.
Say, why didn't you fly your Piet up this year?
Dan
On 08/01/2011 10:08 AM, Perry Rhoads wrote:
> <prhoads61@frontiernet.net>
>
> Fresno Airparts
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Yocum" <yocum137@gmail.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 9:45 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: source for Eisemann magneto parts?
>
>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Does anyone have a source for Eisemann mag parts? It seems that the
>> contactor spring has "sprung" on the left mag on N8031.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Dan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry
Message 7
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Subject: | Where to find good, cheap turnbuckles |
Life got in the way but I am now back restoring a 35-plus year old Piet.
The builder put in nice "Flying" tail brace wires, but they are shot now
(frozen)
I will go back to the plans and use cables and turnbuckles (Flying wires are
nearly $1000)
I'll need eight turnbuckles--anyone have a source, maybe used or surplus?
--
John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret),
President, KUHLCOUPER LLC
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Where to find good, cheap turnbuckles |
John,
B & B Aircraft Supplies. PO Box 37, Gardner, Kansas 66030, Phone (913)
884-5930.
Regards,
John F .
Richmond, TX
GN-1/Corvair
-----Original Message-----
From: John Kuhfahl
Sent: Aug 1, 2011 11:55 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Where to find good, cheap turnbuckles
Life got in the way but I am now back restoring a 35-plus year old Piet.
The builder put in nice "Flying" tail brace wires, but they are shot now (frozen)
I will go back to the plans and use cables and turnbuckles (Flying wires are nearly
$1000)
I'll need eight turnbuckles--anyone have a source, maybe used or surplus?
--
John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret),
President, KUHLCOUPER LLC
________________________________________
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Where to find good, cheap turnbuckles |
John, if there is a way for you to remove the flying wires intact, (say without
cutting them off), I would be interested in having them. Assuming you plan on
throwing them away, we can work out a deal.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Wing Strut Cable Length Change |
FWIW I had to move my wing back 4" and had to make 2 new ones and shorten the other
2.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348278#348278
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Where to find good, cheap turnbuckles |
There are of course 8 wires--a left and right thread on each end--that is 16
threads. I got 12 threads free, 3 still frozen, and broke one off. I was
very gentle, but it broke. One of the wires is also pitted. I was going to
try to "save" these, but when one broke, I gave up. But sure, I might
consider giving these up if you want to mess with them.
On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 12:48 PM, Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>wrote:
> John, if there is a way for you to remove the flying wires intact, (say
> without cutting them off), I would be interested in having them. Assuming
> you plan on throwing them away, we can work out a deal.
>
> Michael Perez
> Karetaker Aero
> www.karetakeraero.com
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret),
President, KUHLCOUPER LLC
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: GA 30-613.5 airfoil drawings. |
----- Original Message -----
Hi Bill:
=C2-I did several searches on the Matronics list, but the only thing that
came up just the mention of it's caracteristics, and Mr. Roman had some dr
awings. I could not find plots for any of them.
=C2-Take good care.
=C2- Jose'
If you search the archives of this list, the coordinates of the original Pi
et airfoil, the Riblett 612 and the 613.5 are posted. =C2-It's a simple m
atter to graph out the airfoil outline on some large paper with the coordin
ates provided.
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348232#348232
===========
===========
MS -
===========
e -
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2--Matt Dralle, List Admin.
===========
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: GA 30-613.5 airfoil drawings. |
Jose, let me search in my computer for the files and if I can find them I will
email them direct to you as an attachment. They were posted here on the list
as an attachment quite some time ago, and I saved them. Just not sure where I
saved them, or if it was even on this computer.
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348289#348289
Message 14
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I am useing riblett 612 ribs and I was told to make the cabanes the same
length. Now I was told if (if) it was me I
I would make the front cabane 1/2" longer. Does anyone have any positive
input on this. I started my piet last year upon my return from Brodhead
and the frame is complete and on the gear, 21" wheels,ash gear with
brakes. Gages in and 0-200 running with one hour run time. Cowting
complete, windshield,leather comming,padded seats and installing
innercom.Almost ready to cover. Thank you for your time ---I enjoy
everyones comments . Bob Edson
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Wing Strut Cable Length Change |
Same here. Suggest you wait to make them.
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348295#348295
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: Axel's visit |
Oh, but you are, my friend!
It was a pleasure to meet you and your wife. Thanks for letting us stop by and
trusting us to take you for your first Piet flight.
You're project is very well built. Look forward to your first flight.
and FBG ain't skeered of no full-sized adults!
do not archive
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348297#348297
Message 17
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Wow, you work fast Bob!
As far as I know, Pieti Lowell is the only one who is currently flying a Piet with
the 612 wing, so he would be the one to offer any valid input on this. I
do know that I talked to him at Brodhead last year about the 612, and at that
time he was flying his plane with the cabanes as per the plans and he stated
that he had to hold a lot of forward pressure on the stick for straight and level
flight. He said that he needed to address this by either shortening the front
struts or lengthening the rear struts to change the angle of incidence, not
sure if he's done this yet. He was at Brodhead this year, but I did not get
a chance to ask him about this.
If it were me, I'd make the rear struts longer rather than shortening the front
struts, just as a matter of making for easier entry into the cockpit. As to
the +1/2" incidence for your wing, I hope that Pieti chimes in on this, as he's
the authority on the Riblett wing on Piets right now...
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348299#348299
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: Wing Strut Cable Length Change |
I waited until the weight/balance was done and my wing position set
before making the wing strut support cables. They are right on the CG,
so I didn't think waiting would make a significant difference.
Ben
On 8/1/2011 12:06 PM, Michael Perez wrote:
> Crew, I am wrapping up the work involved with attaching the wings and
> wing struts, running the aileron cables, making cable guides, etc. One
> of the last steps prior to taking it all apart is to make my wing
> strut support cables. I have my wings angled back, but I have no idea
> if this is in fact, where they will end up. (no engine right now) I
> am wondering if I make the wing strut support cables now and latter
> end up moving the wing to a different set back angle, will the cables
> still fit? Looking at the geometry, it appears to me that the wings
> would have to move A LOT before the cables/turnbuckles would run out
> of travel and need to be re-made, but I want to be sure. Remember, I
> use the swage on fittings, so I only get one shot at getting the
> length correct.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Michael Perez
> Karetaker Aero
> www.karetakeraero.com
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
Message 19
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|
According to my math, if you put both spars directly on top of the
bottom rib capstrip and you build the cabanes the same length, this will
automatically build in the 1.5-ish degree angle of incidence.
The reason is that the front spar will sit about an inch lower than the
rear spar with respect to the wing cord line. Building the cabanes the
same length with raise the front of the wing the necessary amount.
It's simple geometry, so get out a calculator and calculate the angle at
the rear spar location between the line parallel to the chord and the
line drawn to the bottom of the front spar.
Dan
PS. We're suckers for pictures, post some of your progress!
On 08/01/2011 03:08 PM, Robert S. Edson wrote:
> I am useing riblett 612 ribs and I was told to make the cabanes the same
> length. Now I was told if (if) it was me I
> I would make the front cabane 1/2" longer. Does anyone have any positive
> input on this. I started my piet last year upon my return from Brodhead
> and the frame is complete and on the gear, 21" wheels,ash gear with
> brakes. Gages in and 0-200 running with one hour run time. Cowting
> complete, windshield,leather comming,padded seats and installing
> innercom.Almost ready to cover. Thank you for your time ---I enjoy
> everyones comments . Bob Edson
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
Message 20
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|
Bottom line up front: home yesterday after 2 weeks on the road. Flew ~40 hours
and ~2400 miles. Met lots of nice people and gave a bunch of rides. Had a ball
at both C37 and OSH.
Thanks to: IT Girl Shelley wife, Aeden, the Markles, the Chouinards, Gary Boothe,
Jeremy Heidinger, Curt Merdan, Billy McAskill, Jeff Gaulden, the Stinemetzes,
and, of course, my Pietenpol brothers who know who they are and who are family.
I'll do a trip report when I have the energy.
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348303#348303
Message 21
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Subject: | A Great big Thank You To Kevin and Shelly |
To Kevin, and Shelly, A GREAT BIG THANK YOU FOR YOUR TEXAS HOSPITALITY!-
Kevin be sure to give Shelly Dad and my thanks, we were very greatful for t
he cooking and friendship we recieved.- Look forward to seeing you again.
- Congrats on your journey, and good job representing the Corvair Crowd,
my crank did not snap either.
-
Shad
Message 22
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Subject: | Re: A Great big Thank You To Kevin and Shelly |
A Huge Ditto from me, that mean man Dan Helsper. Shelly you are the greates
t, the absolute best IT girl of all time. You also pick out the nicest clot
hes I have seen in quite a while. I would have starved if it weren't for yo
u and your great kindness.
-----Original Message-----
From: shad bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
Sent: Mon, Aug 1, 2011 5:26 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: A Great big Thank You To Kevin and Shelly
To Kevin, and Shelly, A GREAT BIG THANK YOU FOR YOUR TEXAS HOSPITALITY! Ke
vin be sure to give Shelly Dad and my thanks, we were very greatful for the
cooking and friendship we recieved. Look forward to seeing you again. Co
ngrats on your journey, and good job representing the Corvair Crowd, my cra
nk did not snap either.
Shad
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Message 23
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Hi People:
I suggest : make the cabanes the same length and, one can add adapter blocks to
get it perfect with standard wing length, Keep in mind that my wings are 2 feet
shorter than standard, It shouldn't make any difference. I find that , with
the lower radiator the trim is different, the center section is now lift area.
If I fly at 65 MPH and at 1800 RPM the stick is neutral, at 1900 the speed moves
to 72 MPH , and at 1875 RPM air speed increases to 78 MPH. And as the speeds
go up the forward pressure increases on the stick.
I have been slow in raising the aft cabanes because it also requires a number of
other adjustments in the flying wires and rear strut length.
The entrance is much easer with a higher wing location and it does not effect the
flying characteristics one bit.
The 612 ers are going to be surprised with their wing, Just wait and see what I
have enjoyed since 2004.
If the angle is too close to natural I gain air speed, like being on the step,
with a little stick back-pressure added.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348310#348310
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Subject: | Re: GA 30-613.5 airfoil drawings. |
Jose,
I tried emailing you with the info you requested, but the email bounced. Please
contact me at billmz (at) cox. net with a valid email address so that I can
email those files to you...
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348311#348311
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Subject: | Re: GA 30-613.5 airfoil drawings. |
I gave Doc. a bunch of Riblett stuff and I believe that what you are looking for
Doc has a copy.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348312#348312
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Subject: | Re: skytek struts |
i did something similar but put the straps on the inside..7 inches long i believe...and
3/4" wide and 1/4" thick 6060 t6.. 4, 3/16 stainless structural rivets
on each side...leaves just enough room for the as drawn fittings to slide inside..
not flying but my math says it will hold and an engineer buddy liked it
too
btw ..small struts from carlson
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348314#348314
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/alum_strut_attach_163.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/strut_111.jpg
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Kevin, glad you made it home safe! Great to meet you and Shelley, can't
wait for next year...
Jack
DSM
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kevinpurtee
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 4:21 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Made it home
<kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>
Bottom line up front: home yesterday after 2 weeks on the road. Flew ~40
hours and ~2400 miles. Met lots of nice people and gave a bunch of rides.
Had a ball at both C37 and OSH.
Thanks to: IT Girl Shelley wife, Aeden, the Markles, the Chouinards, Gary
Boothe, Jeremy Heidinger, Curt Merdan, Billy McAskill, Jeff Gaulden, the
Stinemetzes, and, of course, my Pietenpol brothers who know who they are and
who are family.
I'll do a trip report when I have the energy.
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348303#348303
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Subject: | Re: Made it home |
Kevin,
Along with "winning" the not-so-blind auction for the Piet fuselage, my trip to
Brodhead was fabulous this year.
Many thanks to you and Shelley for having given me my first ride in a Piet, even
tho its a 'crank snapper...
The entire experience has charged my batteries, and I'm formulating plans for the
'12 flyin as I write this.
Many thanks also go to Dick Navratil, and the entire gang of fellow Piet enthusiasts
who built my fuse.
Blue Skies,
Tom Kreiner
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348317#348317
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Subject: | A Great big Thank You To Kevin and Shelly |
By the way, Shad, a big thank you to you and your Dad, Gary, for letting me
fly your crank-snapper. It's a good flying airplane, if you can keep it
from going off the right side of the runway on takeoff. You'll notice I
stayed within gliding distance of the runway, but it ran strong and true.
Jack Phillips
Glad to be home after 3 days of flying from Wisconsin
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 6:23 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: A Great big Thank You To Kevin and Shelly
To Kevin, and Shelly, A GREAT BIG THANK YOU FOR YOUR TEXAS HOSPITALITY!
Kevin be sure to give Shelly Dad and my thanks, we were very greatful for
the cooking and friendship we recieved. Look forward to seeing you again.
Congrats on your journey, and good job representing the Corvair Crowd, my
crank did not snap either.
Shad
Message 30
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Subject: | Re: A Great big Thank You To Kevin and Shelly |
Well...I dunno about starve...probably would have had to eat fish boil...oh
wait....starving sounds kinda good, now that I think about it...
do not archive
On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 6:03 PM, <helspersew@aol.com> wrote:
> A *Huge* Ditto from me, that* mean man *Dan Helsper. Shelly you are the
> greatest, the absolute best IT girl of all time. You also pick out the
> nicest clothes I have seen in quite a while. I would have starved if it
> weren't for you and your great kindness.
>
> **
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: shad bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
> To: pietenpol-list <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Mon, Aug 1, 2011 5:26 pm
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: A Great big Thank You To Kevin and Shelly
>
> To Kevin, and Shelly, A GREAT BIG THANK YOU FOR YOUR TEXAS
> HOSPITALITY! Kevin be sure to give Shelly Dad and my thanks, we were very
> greatful for the cooking and friendship we recieved. Look forward to seeing
> you again. Congrats on your journey, and good job representing the Corvair
> Crowd, my crank did not snap either.
>
> Shad
>
> *
>
> " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> p://forums.matronics.com
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
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Subject: | Re: GA 30-613.5 airfoil drawings. |
----- Original Message -----
Hi Pieti:
=C2- Thanks for the info, I'll see if I can get hold of Doc.
=C2- Thanks.
=C2-=C2- Jose'.
m>
I gave Doc. a bunch of Riblett stuff and I believe that what you are lookin
g for Doc has a copy.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348312#348312
===========
===========
MS -
===========
e -
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2--Matt Dralle, List Admin.
===========
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I have all of the Pietenpol plans and just purchased the GN-1 plans. I have read
some great posts on the pros and cons of each, but I need more details. I
am not 100% sure at this time which airplane I should build.
Can anyone please tell me why you chose to build and fly the GN-1 over the original
Pietenpol? Do they fly the same? Any major cost differences or building
skills needed?
Thanks a bunch, please send me all of your thoughts pros and cons.
Blue skies,
Donato
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348327#348327
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Subject: | Re: source for Eisemann magneto parts? |
Definitely call them. Great people to deal with but they just don't do "modern".
You can just describe to them what you need over the phone and they'll send
it out. They don't do Visa. Just check or C.O.D. If you are in a bind you
can tell them and usually they will send it out before they receive the payment.
I've bought a lot of stuff from them...always good quality.
Don Emch
NX899DE
P.S. Great to hear everyone has made it home safe!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348329#348329
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Hi Dan:
I'm also using the GA612 airfoil and just finished fabricating my cabane
struts this afternoon. They are going to the weld shop in the morning. Bill
Rewey, who I bought the full size GA612 rib drawing from, told me last
summer at Brodhead, to make the rear cabanes 1" shorter than the front ones.
A couple of weeks ago Bill Church who has an engineering background posted
information on this list, stating that he had calculated the actual
difference in length to be 11/16" between the longer front cabanes and the
rear ones. I went with Bill's dimensions. I guess if I find out later that I
screwed up, I can always use Lowell's spacer suggestion.
Bill Princell - Noblesville, IN
Corvair Powered/Pietenpol Rebuild Project
On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 4:58 PM, Dan Yocum <yocum@fnal.gov> wrote:
>
> According to my math,
>
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Subject: | Re: Piet vs. GN-1 |
Hi FlyBoy57,
The GN-1 was designed back in the late 1950's to look like a Pietenpol, but make
use of cheap, readily available parts such as landing gear, engine and mounts,
cowlings, struts, and wing panels from Piper Cubs or Aeronca Champs that were
no longer airworthy or repairable for whatever reason. Those parts are no
longer as cheap or easily obtainable as they once were. So essentially you must
still fabricate pretty much everything on the plans unless you can source some
old usable Cub parts.
The GN's rib profile is slightly different from the Pietenpol, with more rounded
leading edge and no undercamber, and supposedly softer stall characteristics.
Additionally, due to changes in the way the GN-1's cabane struts and wing fittings
are made, changing the position of the wing to bring weight & balance
into line is not possible. On the Piet, the wing can easily be moved back up
to 4" to affect the weight and balance, rather than adding ballast or moving accessories
and components as necessary on the GN-1.
I'm told that GN-1's are typically a little bit heavier than Pietenpols due to
the way the fuselage is skinned with plywood from the firewall all the way back
to the tailpost.
I cannot comment on the flying qualities of the GN-1, as I have never flown one
or even in one. Several have made their way to Brodhead over the years, so obviously
the GN-1 is certainly capable of flying, but as to how the flight qualities
of the GN compare to the Piet, somebody else on the list who has flown
both types will have to speak to that issue.
Hope this answers some of your questions.
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348334#348334
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Subject: | Re: Made it home |
Glad you got back ok... we just got in last night too. Got tons of pics to share...
prob do it on FB. Can you believe I got pulled over in StL on the way home?
Damn that town! Got me coming and going.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348335#348335
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Subject: | Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
complete Pietenpol-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ]
This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
************************************************************
******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS *******
************************************************************
PLEASE READ. This document contains Pietenpol-List policies and information
for new and old subscribers. Understanding the Pietenpol-List policies will
minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the Pietenpol-List
running smoothly for all of us.
******************************************
*** Quick Start Guide to List Features ***
******************************************
There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each
one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator
you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this
List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
****************************************
*** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe ***
****************************************
Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and
select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You
may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of
your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the
complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information.
The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption
process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request
was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed.
You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request.
The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post
until you receive the second conformation email message.
*****************************
*** How to Post a Message ***
*****************************
Send an email message to:
pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed
to the List.
*****************************************************
*** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post ***
*****************************************************
When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message
is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the
email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor.
If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it
is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that
gets posted to the Lists.
Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important
with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook
or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be
functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM
test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List:
smith@machine.domain.com
smith@domain.com
Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure
your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to
the List.
**************************************
*** Enclosure Support on the Lists ***
**************************************
Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets
is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these
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content of enclosures.
These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics
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1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists.
2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists.
3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site.
4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives.
5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature.
6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed:
bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls
All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to
sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from
a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk.
7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting
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Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules
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1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files
you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there
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2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000
pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just
unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture
down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the
file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less.
Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically
scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it!
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
Look for the link "Image Resizer"
3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not
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BE COURTEOUS!
Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where
you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server
for long time viewing and availability.
*******************
*** Digest Mode ***
*******************
Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started.
This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:"
and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting
of a line of underscores.
Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be
combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list.
To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form
described above, and just select the Digest version of the List.
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Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions
of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable.
Now some caveats:
* Messages sent to "pietenpol-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard
email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
digest List.
* If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you
will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
the day.
* If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the
normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change
the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please
*do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.
****************************
*** List Digest Browser ***
****************************
An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to
the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found
at the following location:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
email distribution as normal.
**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the Pietenpol-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
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If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
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*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/pietenpol-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Pietenpol-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Pietenpol-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* Pietenpol-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Pietenpol
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Pietenpol-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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Subject: | Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Pietenpol-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Pietenpol-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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