---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 08/03/11: 22 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:43 AM - Re: metal bender (womenfly2) 2. 08:19 AM - Re: Does anybody recognize this... (Dan Yocum) 3. 08:52 AM - brake cables (Richard Schreiber) 4. 09:08 AM - Re: brake cables (gboothe5@comcast.net) 5. 09:13 AM - Re: brake cables (helspersew@aol.com) 6. 09:18 AM - Re: brake cables (Ben Charvet) 7. 10:06 AM - Re: Does anybody recognize this... (Jim Markle) 8. 10:21 AM - Re: Does anybody recognize this... (Dan Yocum) 9. 10:24 AM - Re: Does anybody recognize this... (kevinpurtee) 10. 11:08 AM - Re: Does anybody recognize this... (K5YAC) 11. 11:58 AM - Re: Does anybody recognize this... (Bill Church) 12. 02:19 PM - Re: Re: Does anybody recognize this... (mark lee) 13. 02:32 PM - brake cables (Richard Schreiber) 14. 03:04 PM - Re: GA 30-613.5 airfoil drawings. (Michael Silvius) 15. 03:21 PM - Re: Re: GA 30-613.5 airfoil drawings. (Greg Cardinal) 16. 03:31 PM - Re: Re: Does anybody recognize this... (Ryan Mueller) 17. 04:29 PM - Re: Re: GA 30-613.5 airfoil drawings. (bkemike@gmail.com) 18. 04:30 PM - Fw: Re: GA 30-613.5 airfoil drawings. (helspersew@aol.com) 19. 05:23 PM - Re: Re: Does anybody recognize this... (mark lee) 20. 06:31 PM - Re: Re: GA 30-613.5 airfoil drawings. (Ben Charvet) 21. 07:45 PM - Re: GA 30-613.5 airfoil drawings. (kevinpurtee) 22. 10:16 PM - Re: Re: GA 30-613.5 airfoil drawings. (Ryan Mueller) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:43:15 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: metal bender From: "womenfly2" Remember the minimum inside radius, when bending 4130, is equal to its thickness. -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348490#348490 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:19:14 AM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Does anybody recognize this... Something from the Peanut Gallery over here... do not archive -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:52:18 AM PST US From: "Richard Schreiber" Subject: Pietenpol-List: brake cables Question for those that are using mechanical drum or band brakes. What diameter cable are you using? 1/16" stranded cable and sheaths are readilly available from bicycle shops, but is this to thin? Rick Schreiber ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:08:45 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: brake cables From: gboothe5@comcast.net VGhhdCdzIHdoYXQgSSBoYXZlLCBidXQgaXQncyB1bnRlc3RlZC4NCg0KR2FyeQ0KU2VudCBvbiB0 aGUgU3ByaW50riBOb3cgTmV0d29yayBmcm9tIG15IEJsYWNrQmVycnmuDQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2lu YWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiAiUmljaGFyZCBTY2hyZWliZXIiIDxsbWZvcmdlQGVhcnRo bGluay5uZXQ+DQpTZW5kZXI6IG93bmVyLXBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0LXNlcnZlckBtYXRyb25pY3Mu Y29tDQpEYXRlOiBXZWQsIDMgQXVnIDIwMTEgMTA6NDk6NDggDQpUbzogcGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3Q8 cGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbT4NClJlcGx5LVRvOiBwaWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdEBt YXRyb25pY3MuY29tU3ViamVjdDogUGlldGVucG9sLUxpc3Q6IGJyYWtlIGNhYmxlcw0KDQoNCg0K UXVlc3Rpb24gZm9yIHRob3NlIHRoYXQgYXJlIHVzaW5nIG1lY2hhbmljYWwgZHJ1bSBvciBiYW5k IGJyYWtlcy4gV2hhdCBkaWFtZXRlciBjYWJsZSBhcmUgeW91IHVzaW5nPyAxLzE2IiBzdHJhbmRl ZCBjYWJsZSBhbmQgc2hlYXRocyBhcmUgcmVhZGlsbHkgYXZhaWxhYmxlIGZyb20gYmljeWNsZSBz aG9wcywgYnV0IGlzIHRoaXMgdG8gdGhpbj8NCg0KUmljayBTY2hyZWliZXINCg= ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:13:14 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: brake cables From: helspersew@aol.com Hi Rick, I used the 1/16th stranded cable. Seems to work fine. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: Richard Schreiber Sent: Wed, Aug 3, 2011 10:52 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: brake cables Question for those that are using mechanical drum or band brakes. What diam eter cable are you using? 1/16" stranded cable and sheaths are readilly ava ilable from bicycle shops, but is this to thin? Rick Schreiber -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:18:47 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: brake cables From: Ben Charvet I used 1/16 cable and sheaths from ASS. Ive had one brake come apart but no p roblems with the cables in 85 hours Sent from my iPhone On Aug 3, 2011, at 12:06 PM, gboothe5@comcast.net wrote: > That's what I have, but it's untested. > > Gary > Sent on the Sprint=C3=86 Now Network from my BlackBerry=C3=86 > > From: "Richard Schreiber" > Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 10:49:48 -0500 > To: pietenpol-list > ReplyTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: brake cables > > > > Question for those that are using mechanical drum or band brakes. What dia meter cable are you using? 1/16" stranded cable and sheaths are readilly ava ilable from bicycle shops, but is this to thin? > > Rick Schreiber > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > > ky=88=91=C3=8B=C3=BB=82=AC"=C3-=C3=8C=C3=BA=C2=A2Z+=9DM4 =9DG=81=84q=C3=81(=88=AB=88=8F=C3=BB=C3=86w=88=9Er=C3=A3=C2=B4=C3 =A2=C3=8D=9D=C3'=9E=9Az=97=8A=C3=9F=C2=B6=C3=A2K=C3=A4 =C3D=C3=B4=C2=AE=A2=16=C3=A4=C3=93=C3=B4K=1E=88=82=17=C3=A5j=81 =84=C3=8B=C3=BB',.+-=15=C3=8A=89-=88=AB=88=91=C2=A85=C2=B4=9A =C3=85=C2=B4h=C3=86=81=84=1B=C3=86=C3=A5,z=C3^=C3=B4=C2=A9=C3=9A.+- =88=AB=C3=A2=C3=A4=C3=C3=BB=89=A4=C3=C3=BA=C3'=C2=B4=0B=C3 =A4=C3T=C3=BC=C3=99=C3=86n=C2=AB+=C3=A4=C3=B5b=C2=A2p+r=18=C3=98y'=C3=B6 =89-=C2=BBC=C2=A3 =C3=82=C2=B0=C3=9F{ =C2=A8=C3=85=C3=86=C3=A5,x(Z=C2 =A5P=10>=1A-=C2=A2=C2=BBZ=89-=C3=8A=C3=9Fvk=C3=BA=C3=9Ck=C3=BA=C3=9Cj+y =C2=AEky=C2=AFm=88=82=C3=BC=CB=87=88=9A=0C&j=81=84=C3=8B=C3=BB',r=C3 =A2=C3=B85=C2=B4=9A=C3=85=C2=B4h=C2=A8=C2=AF=C3=BB=C2=B5=C3=88=C3=88=C2 =A2R=9A=89=A4=C3m=88=82=C3=BC=CB=87=88=9A=0C&j=81=84=C3 =8B=C3=BB',r=C3=A2=C3=B85=C2=B4=9A=C3=85=C2=B4h=C2=A8=C2=AF=C3=BB=C2=B5 =C3=88=C3=88=C2=A2R=9A=89=A4=EF=AC=82=81=840=04=948=9C =02Ia=01=14=B0T1$=C3=B6=C3=B4=C3=8B+y=C2=B4\=C2=A2{^=C3=BB=C3=B7 =A2=89=A4=C3=9C=C3=98j)ZnW=C3=98=C3=A2=C2=B4ayg=C3=B5=16=C3=A4=C3=93=C3=B6 =88=86=C2=B0=89-=C3=81=C2=B7=88=82=81=84=7F=CB=9D=CB=99+=88 =ABk&j=81=84=C3=8B=C3=BB',r=C3=A2=C2=B0=88=82=81=84=7F=CB=9D=CB=99+ =88=ABk&j=81=84=C3=8B=C3=BB',r=C3=A2=C3=B8h=88=8F=C2=A8=C2=A5*'=88 =82=88=8F=C3=B5=88=AB=C3=C2=AE=C3=B9g=C3=B5J+^N=16=C3=9F=C3=AC*.~=C3 =A4=C3=9A=C2=A2=C3=8D=A1zw=C2=B4=C2=A2=C3=8E,=88=AB=C3=B6h=C3=86 =9D=1A=88=82=93=C3=8EjY^.+-=01=C5=B8=C2=A2=C3=B9=C2=AEky=C2=AFm =88=82=C3=BC=CB=87=88=9A=0C&j=81=84=C3=8B=C3=BB',r=C3=A2=C3=B8r=C3=A2=C3 =8C=C3=86&=C3=93=88=82*'=C3=9C=82=ACi=CB=87=C2=B80=C2=ACf=89-=C3=86 =C3=A2=9Ar=C2=AB(=C3=B5=CB=9C(=C3=BB=81=84=9An=C3=8Eb=C2=A2=7F =81=84=CB=9D=C3=B8=EF=AC=82=C2=A2{=7F=C2=B6=88=91=C3=B8n=C3=A1r=CB=9B=1B f ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:06:39 AM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Does anybody recognize this... This is a proud moment for me.... -----Original Message----- >From: Dan Yocum >Sent: Aug 3, 2011 10:16 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Does anybody recognize this... > >Something from the Peanut Gallery over here... > >do not archive > > >-- >Dan Yocum >Fermilab 630.840.6509 >yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov >"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:21:57 AM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Does anybody recognize this... Jim, It's a running internal battle that I have - do I remain polite and let the opportunity slip quietly past, or do I go for the cheap laugh that might possibly offend someone? Usually, I go for the cheap laugh. I know that I'm going to burn in hell. Sincerely and always respectfully yours, Big Nose ;-) On 08/03/2011 12:04 PM, Jim Markle wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Markle > > This is a proud moment for me.... > > > -----Original Message----- >> From: Dan Yocum >> Sent: Aug 3, 2011 10:16 AM >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Does anybody recognize this... >> >> Something from the Peanut Gallery over here... >> >> do not archive >> >> >> -- >> Dan Yocum >> Fermilab 630.840.6509 >> yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov >> "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > ______________________________________________________________________ -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:24:25 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Does anybody recognize this... From: "kevinpurtee" "Do these shorts make my butt look big?" do not archive -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348520#348520 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:08:00 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Does anybody recognize this... From: "K5YAC" Where is Hofmann? That would be a great shot for a coffee cup... er, better make that a mug! Probably sell like hot cakes! -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348523#348523 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:58:53 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Does anybody recognize this... From: "Bill Church" Why fight it, Dan? It's not worth the stress. Oh, and for the record, I didn't identify the subject of the photo. I didn't really think anyone would be able to identify a photo of an ... uh, I mean a photo without a face. On the other hand, isn't it nice that nobody is talking about you "markling" things anymore, Jim. Glad to be of assistance. BC (someone's going to get me for this) do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348527#348527 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:19:39 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Does anybody recognize this... From: mark lee When I was asking about the need for a Riblett, why didn't you guys just show me the proof of the Piet airfoils capability! A picture is worth a thousand words.Thanks for finally showing us the big picture.It's about time. On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Bill Church wrote: > billspiet@sympatico.ca> > > Why fight it, Dan? It's not worth the stress. > > Oh, and for the record, I didn't identify the subject of the photo. I > didn't really think anyone would be able to identify a photo of an ... uh, I > mean a photo without a face. > > On the other hand, isn't it nice that nobody is talking about you > "markling" things anymore, Jim. Glad to be of assistance. > > BC > > (someone's going to get me for this) > > do not archive > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348527#348527 > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:32:54 PM PST US From: "Richard Schreiber" Subject: Pietenpol-List: brake cables Gary, Dan and Ben..... Thanks for the response. I'll be going with the 1/16 inch brake cables. Rcik Schreiber ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:04:21 PM PST US From: "Michael Silvius" Subject: Pietenpol-List: re: GA 30-613.5 airfoil drawings. Jose: Found these in my stash of goodies, hope they help... Saludos: Michael ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:21:17 PM PST US From: "Greg Cardinal" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: re: GA 30-613.5 airfoil drawings. Mr. Riblett's comments on the stall characteristics of the original Pietenpol airfoil are complete rubbish. Watch Jeff Boatright's youtube videos demonstrating stalls for one example of mild stalls. The stall characteristics of NX18235 are equally mild. There is nothing sudden or unsafe when stalling a Pietenpol. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Silvius To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 6:00 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: re: GA 30-613.5 airfoil drawings. Jose: Found these in my stash of goodies, hope they help... Saludos: Michael ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:31:38 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Does anybody recognize this... From: Ryan Mueller Why didn't you look at 80+ years of empirical evidence? On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 4:17 PM, mark lee wrote: > When I was asking about the need for a Riblett, why didn't you guys just > show me the proof of the Piet airfoils capability! A picture is worth a > thousand words.Thanks for finally showing us the big picture.It's about > time. > > On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Bill Church wrote: > >> billspiet@sympatico.ca> >> >> Why fight it, Dan? It's not worth the stress. >> >> Oh, and for the record, I didn't identify the subject of the photo. I >> didn't really think anyone would be able to identify a photo of an ... uh, I >> mean a photo without a face. >> >> On the other hand, isn't it nice that nobody is talking about you >> "markling" things anymore, Jim. Glad to be of assistance. >> >> BC >> >> (someone's going to get me for this) >> >> do not archive >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348527#348527 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ========== >> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> ========== >> http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> le, List Admin. >> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========== >> >> >> >> > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:29:41 PM PST US From: bkemike@gmail.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: re: GA 30-613.5 airfoil drawings. Airfoil characteristics are profoundly affected by planform/aspect ratio, washout/twist, adjacent bodies such as struts, radiators, etc. Obviously, many years of successful flying trump some early computer analysis. I have flown, safely and happily, in airplanes with sharp leading edges and thin sections that had horrible AIRFOIL characteristics but quite controllable AIRPLANE characteristics. To call a serious scientific investigation of an airfoil into doubt because your airplane behaves in a way that, to your non-scientific observation, is inconsistent with the results of the investigation, is like saying lead paint can't be dangerous because your grandma safely drove a Buick. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:30:49 PM PST US Subject: Fwd: Pietenpol-List: re: GA 30-613.5 airfoil drawings. From: helspersew@aol.com Why all this discussion of Riblett and other airfoils? I don't get it. Chec k out this vid from The Great Jim Markle, Brodhead 2011, at 3:00 min and 5: 00 min. First one is a Ford Model A and the second is Kevin's proven 85 hor se Corvair. Both climb like a rocket on a hot summer day. What more does on e want from a Piet? http://youtu.be/DjY0YVsjc7U Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: Michael Silvius Sent: Wed, Aug 3, 2011 5:05 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: re: GA 30-613.5 airfoil drawings. Jose: Found these in my stash of goodies, hope they help... Saludos: Michael Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: Michael Silvius Sent: Wed, Aug 3, 2011 5:05 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: re: GA 30-613.5 airfoil drawings. Jose: Found these in my stash of goodies, hope they help... Saludos: Michael ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:23:24 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Does anybody recognize this... From: mark lee Not as much fun as you guys are having with the picture I suppose. On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 3:29 PM, Ryan Mueller wrote: > Why didn't you look at 80+ years of empirical evidence? > > On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 4:17 PM, mark lee wrote: > >> When I was asking about the need for a Riblett, why didn't you guys just >> show me the proof of the Piet airfoils capability! A picture is worth a >> thousand words.Thanks for finally showing us the big picture.It's about >> time. >> >> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Bill Church wrote: >> >>> billspiet@sympatico.ca> >>> >>> Why fight it, Dan? It's not worth the stress. >>> >>> Oh, and for the record, I didn't identify the subject of the photo. I >>> didn't really think anyone would be able to identify a photo of an ... uh, I >>> mean a photo without a face. >>> >>> On the other hand, isn't it nice that nobody is talking about you >>> "markling" things anymore, Jim. Glad to be of assistance. >>> >>> BC >>> >>> (someone's going to get me for this) >>> >>> do not archive >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348527#348527 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ========== >>> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >>> ========== >>> http://forums.matronics.com >>> ========== >>> le, List Admin. >>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> ========== >>> >>> >>> >>> >> * >> >> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> * >> >> > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:31:10 PM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: re: GA 30-613.5 airfoil drawings. Have to agree with you Greg Ben On 8/3/2011 6:19 PM, Greg Cardinal wrote: > Mr. Riblett's comments on the stall characteristics of the original > Pietenpol airfoil are complete rubbish. > Watch Jeff Boatright's youtube videos demonstrating stalls for one > example of mild stalls. > The stall characteristics of NX18235 are equally mild. There is > nothing sudden or unsafe when stalling a Pietenpol. > Greg Cardinal > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Michael Silvius > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 03, 2011 6:00 PM > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: re: GA 30-613.5 airfoil drawings. > > Jose: > Found these in my stash of goodies, hope they help... > Saludos: > Michael > > * > > > * -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:45:06 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: GA 30-613.5 airfoil drawings. From: "kevinpurtee" And I've gotta go with you, Ben. -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348562#348562 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 10:16:52 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: re: GA 30-613.5 airfoil drawings. From: Ryan Mueller Careful Dan....you've gotten by since you're so properly sized...you're almost the IT Boy of the skies. I'm afraid if you put someone in the front pit that you may not get off the ground. I mean, good lord man, it's an FC-10! You want to dance with the devil fine....don't bring others into it! As an aside....she's damn pretty.....too bad some Virginan didn't think of that paint scheme first.... ;-) On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 6:28 PM, wrote: > ** > Why all this discussion of Riblett and other airfoils? I don't get it. > Check out this vid from The Great Jim Markle, Brodhead 2011, at 3:00 min and > 5:00 min. First one is a Ford Model A and the second is Kevin's proven 85 > horse Corvair. Both climb like a rocket on a hot summer day. What more does > one want from a Piet? http://youtu.be/DjY0YVsjc7U > > Dan Helsper > Puryear, TN > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Silvius > To: pietenpol-list > Sent: Wed, Aug 3, 2011 5:05 pm > Subject: Pietenpol-List: re: GA 30-613.5 airfoil drawings. > > Jose: > > Found these in my stash of goodies, hope they help... > > Saludos: > > Michael > > * > > > * > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.