Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:42 AM - Re: Spins (Jack Phillips)
2. 03:59 AM - Re: Spins (Wayne Bressler)
3. 05:13 AM - Luggage Pod (FlyBoy57)
4. 05:19 AM - Re: Spins (FlyBoy57)
5. 05:22 AM - Re: Spins (Ben Charvet)
6. 05:24 AM - Re: Luggage Pod (Ben Charvet)
7. 05:32 AM - Re: Luggage Pod (Jack Phillips)
8. 08:33 AM - Re: Luggage Pod (Bill Church)
9. 08:42 AM - Re: Spins (shad bell)
10. 09:07 AM - Re: Luggage Pod (FlyBoy57)
11. 09:16 AM - Re: Spins (jarheadpilot82)
12. 10:06 AM - Re: Re: Spins (Charles Campbell)
13. 10:10 AM - Re: Spins (Graham Hansen)
14. 11:13 AM - Re: Spins (mark lee)
15. 11:25 AM - Re: Spins (GliderMike)
16. 12:32 PM - Re: Re: Luggage Pod (Jack Phillips)
17. 12:36 PM - Re: Re: Luggage Pod (Dan Yocum)
18. 12:47 PM - Re: Spins (Jack Phillips)
19. 01:19 PM - Re: Re: Luggage Pod (Gerry Holland)
20. 01:27 PM - Re: Re: Luggage Pod (Gerry Holland)
21. 01:42 PM - Re: Re: Wil Graff (Ryan Mueller)
22. 04:40 PM - Spins (Oscar Zuniga)
23. 04:58 PM - Re: Spins (mark lee)
24. 05:25 PM - Re: Spins (Jack Phillips)
25. 05:34 PM - Re: Spins (GliderMike)
Message 1
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I've never spun mine, and don't intend to try. The Pietenpol has a very
small vertical fin and is only marginally stable in yaw. I'm not sure it
would recover well from a spin and would hate to try to spin it, only to
find that it will not recover. Just don't see the point in trying it.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GliderMike
Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2011 11:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spins
Does anyone spin their Piet? Is the general consensus the airframe is
strong enough to do 1 or 2 turn spins, if you don't get drastic with it.
When Beech and Piper came out with the Skipper and Tomahawk, they were
originally supposed to be OK to do spins in them, until a couple of tails
fell off.
--------
HOMEBUILDER
Will WORK for Spruce
Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings,
GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348786#348786
Message 2
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It's my understanding that spinning used to be an acceptable method of descending
VFR through clouds when there were no holes to come down through.
Can't you just imagine the terror (or giddy joy) of spinning your Piet through
a thousand feet of solid overcast?
Do not archive (or try this at home)
Wayne Bressler
Taildraggers, Inc.
www.taildraggersinc.com
On Aug 7, 2011, at 6:39 AM, "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> I've never spun mine, and don't intend to try. The Pietenpol has a very
> small vertical fin and is only marginally stable in yaw. I'm not sure it
> would recover well from a spin and would hate to try to spin it, only to
> find that it will not recover. Just don't see the point in trying it.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GliderMike
> Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2011 11:00 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spins
>
>
> Does anyone spin their Piet? Is the general consensus the airframe is
> strong enough to do 1 or 2 turn spins, if you don't get drastic with it.
> When Beech and Piper came out with the Skipper and Tomahawk, they were
> originally supposed to be OK to do spins in them, until a couple of tails
> fell off.
>
> --------
> HOMEBUILDER
> Will WORK for Spruce
> Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings,
> GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348786#348786
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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Has anyone thought about some type of removable luggage pod that can be installed
under the fuselage on or near the landing gear? Something about the size of
a small carry on for airline travel.
Reason is, I am thinking about installing two fuel tanks. One in front and a few
gallon tank in the center wing section. I will use the pod for overnight trips.
Dumb idea?
Stay well,
Donato
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348804#348804
Message 4
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I agree with Jack, don't do it. However, if you must, a few suggestions. Install
a BRS and have an expert test pilot do it. Be willing to say good bye to
your Piet. if it doesn't go well.
Donato
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348805#348805
Message 5
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I heard Pat Green tell of a friend spinning his Pietenpol (original
Pietenpol corvair conversion, long fuselage) The guy was wearing a
parachute and Pat was on the ground watching. Evidently it spun so many
times that Pat was hoping the guy would just hit the silk, but he was
able to eventually stop the spin and the airplane was saved. Pat was
telling this story to explain why he had remade his rudder taller than
the plans. It was compelling enough to convince me to make my rudder a
few inches taller. I'm not sure I would fit in my Piet wearing a
parachute, and I'm having enough fun just putting around doing the
occasional lazy-8.
Ben Charvet
Titusville, Fl
Does anyone spin their Piet? Is the general consensus the airframe is
strong enough to do 1 or 2 turn spins, if you don't get drastic with it.
When Beech and Piper came out with the Skipper and Tomahawk, they were
originally supposed to be OK to do spins in them, until a couple of tails
fell off.
--------
HOMEBUILDER
Will WORK for Spruce
Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings,
GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348786#348786
>
>
-
Message 6
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If you are flying solo it would be better to strap it in the front
seat. I doubt you would be able to carry a passenger with both fuel
tanks full anyway.
Ben Charvet
On 8/7/2011 8:10 AM, FlyBoy57 wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "FlyBoy57"<donato_m@hotmail.com>
>
> Has anyone thought about some type of removable luggage pod that can be installed
under the fuselage on or near the landing gear? Something about the size
of a small carry on for airline travel.
>
> Reason is, I am thinking about installing two fuel tanks. One in front and a
few gallon tank in the center wing section. I will use the pod for overnight
trips. Dumb idea?
>
> Stay well,
> Donato
>
>
Message 7
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Pete Bowers designed such a belly pod for his FlyBaby. I'm sure the plans
are available somewhere. Try the Fly Baby website:
http://www.bowersflybaby.com
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of FlyBoy57
Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2011 8:11 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Luggage Pod
Has anyone thought about some type of removable luggage pod that can be
installed under the fuselage on or near the landing gear? Something about
the size of a small carry on for airline travel.
Reason is, I am thinking about installing two fuel tanks. One in front and
a few gallon tank in the center wing section. I will use the pod for
overnight trips. Dumb idea?
Stay well,
Donato
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348804#348804
Message 8
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Something like this?:
https://picasaweb.google.com/TresClements/Thanksgiving2008#5275056994507370914
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348814#348814
Message 9
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.com>...............
..........
"Can't you just imagine the terror (or giddy joy) of spinning your Piet thr
ough a thousand feet of solid overcast?".
-
-
-
......................
..................... OR fly into brodhead-through it?
-
Shad
Message 10
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Yea, but I'm not sure I want to make it look like a bomb? Thanks for the pic.
Donato
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348816#348816
Message 11
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> It's my understanding that spinning used to be an acceptable method of descending
VFR through clouds when there were no holes to come down through.
>
> Can't you just imagine the terror (or giddy joy) of spinning your Piet through
a thousand feet of solid overcast?
I have also heard of guys spinning through the cloud layer. I, personally, would
rather go partial panel with a turn needle and balance ball for 30-60 seconds
if I found myself VFR on top with no hole to let through rather than spin an
airplane that has not been certified to do so. We each choose how we respond
to situations that we get ourselves into. That just happens to be my answer to
that scenario. You may choose to respond differently.
I guess my question about doing spins in a Piet is, Why? If you want to do spins
in order to develop a comfort zone of your flying skills should you get into
an inadvertent spin, I would respectfully suggest going and doing it with an
instructor in a spin-certified airplane. If you would like to do it because it
is fun (and don't get me wrong- spins are fun!), just understand that the Pietenpol,
as wonderful an airplane as it is, is not a certified airplane and as
such, you are your own test pilot when doing such maneuvers.
These airplanes are built with the same plans, but not the same QA standards. Yours
might be overbuilt, while I may have not been near as exacting in my quality
standards. Both are Pietenpols, and both might be flying, but they are very
different airplanes. That is why I would suggest that just because someone has
spun the Pietenpol, or done aerobatics in theirs, that does not mean it is
a good option for you. Especially if you bought the airplane and did not build
it.
Just my $.02
Do not archive.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348817#348817
Message 12
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Why not buy an SP-400 hand-held radio with ILS capability and come down the
glide slope. At least someone would know where you are and what you're
doing.
Not to archive!
----- Original Message -----
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2011 12:14 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spins
> <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>
>
>
>> It's my understanding that spinning used to be an acceptable method of
>> descending VFR through clouds when there were no holes to come down
>> through.
>>
>> Can't you just imagine the terror (or giddy joy) of spinning your Piet
>> through a thousand feet of solid overcast?
>
>
> I have also heard of guys spinning through the cloud layer. I, personally,
> would rather go partial panel with a turn needle and balance ball for
> 30-60 seconds if I found myself VFR on top with no hole to let through
> rather than spin an airplane that has not been certified to do so. We each
> choose how we respond to situations that we get ourselves into. That just
> happens to be my answer to that scenario. You may choose to respond
> differently.
>
> I guess my question about doing spins in a Piet is, Why? If you want to do
> spins in order to develop a comfort zone of your flying skills should you
> get into an inadvertent spin, I would respectfully suggest going and doing
> it with an instructor in a spin-certified airplane. If you would like to
> do it because it is fun (and don't get me wrong- spins are fun!), just
> understand that the Pietenpol, as wonderful an airplane as it is, is not a
> certified airplane and as such, you are your own test pilot when doing
> such maneuvers.
>
> These airplanes are built with the same plans, but not the same QA
> standards. Yours might be overbuilt, while I may have not been near as
> exacting in my quality standards. Both are Pietenpols, and both might be
> flying, but they are very different airplanes. That is why I would suggest
> that just because someone has spun the Pietenpol, or done aerobatics in
> theirs, that does not mean it is a good option for you. Especially if you
> bought the airplane and did not build it.
>
> Just my $.02
>
> Do not archive.
>
> --------
> Semper Fi,
>
> Terry Hand
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348817#348817
>
>
>
Message 13
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I'm with Jack Phillips on this one. A few years ago I submitted a post on
this topic and it should be languishing in the archives, so I 'll not repeat
it.
I have been flying my Piet for over forty years and have never spun it. Some
reasons:
1. Type-certified production airplanes are built according to a pretty rigid
specification in order that each aircraft will have predictable and safe
flying characteristics, including spin behavior and spin recovery. One Piper
J3, for example, will behave in the same way as all others of the type,
provided they all conform to the original specification.
2. Homebuilts tend to vary and no two of the same design are exactly
alike.Variations in CG location, rigging and other deviations from the plans
may create problems in spin behaviour and recovery.
3. There is no space for a parachute in my Pietenpol and I am not inclined
to risk losing my airplane by having to abandon it, even if there was room
for both me and a parachute. (Note that the weight of a parachute would be
well aft and could have a bad effect on spin behavior.)
Back in the 1930s several pilots I knew used to spin Pietenpols with heavy
Ford A engines up front, but these guys were young, lean and light (also
brave!). Presumably the CG was far enough forward or they wouldn't have been
able to tell me about it.
Personally, I will spin a type-certified airplane provided it conforms to
the original type specification and is not placarded against spinning, but I
will not do it with my Pietenpol. If I need spin and recovery practice I'll
use an unmodified Luscombe or Taylorcraft..
Graham Hansen Pietenpol Cf-AUN in wet central Alberta, Canada
Message 14
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Does the Piet behave enough like a cub to be able to practice some spin
recovery and have it translate.It doesn't sound like most Piets are in any
way prone to spinning.Good recovery is a reflex that I want to have anyway.I
will have to start from scratch with the flight training.So I need to get an
idea of what to look for that would help with a Piet.No doubt about it,I'm
going to have a very full dance card for several years.My goal is to never
get a Piet in that situation but build one that would survive at least in
theory.Money,guns,lawyers and good flight training should help with the
other problems,I hope.
Please don't archive.I want them to forget about this in time.
On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 10:03 AM, Graham Hansen <ghans@cable-lynx.net> wrote:
> ghans@cable-lynx.net>
>
> I'm with Jack Phillips on this one. A few years ago I submitted a post on
> this topic and it should be languishing in the archives, so I 'll not repeat
> it.
>
> I have been flying my Piet for over forty years and have never spun it.
> Some reasons:
>
> 1. Type-certified production airplanes are built according to a pretty
> rigid specification in order that each aircraft will have predictable and
> safe flying characteristics, including spin behavior and spin recovery. One
> Piper J3, for example, will behave in the same way as all others of the
> type, provided they all conform to the original specification.
>
> 2. Homebuilts tend to vary and no two of the same design are exactly
> alike.Variations in CG location, rigging and other deviations from the plans
> may create problems in spin behaviour and recovery.
>
> 3. There is no space for a parachute in my Pietenpol and I am not inclined
> to risk losing my airplane by having to abandon it, even if there was room
> for both me and a parachute. (Note that the weight of a parachute would be
> well aft and could have a bad effect on spin behavior.)
>
> Back in the 1930s several pilots I knew used to spin Pietenpols with heavy
> Ford A engines up front, but these guys were young, lean and light (also
> brave!). Presumably the CG was far enough forward or they wouldn't have been
> able to tell me about it.
>
> Personally, I will spin a type-certified airplane provided it conforms to
> the original type specification and is not placarded against spinning, but I
> will not do it with my Pietenpol. If I need spin and recovery practice I'll
> use an unmodified Luscombe or Taylorcraft..
>
> Graham Hansen Pietenpol Cf-AUN in wet central Alberta, Canada
>
>
Message 15
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Graham, I'll look thru the archives, and see if I can find your old post about
spins. Thanks.
--------
HOMEBUILDER
Will WORK for Spruce
Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings,
GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348824#348824
Message 16
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That looks just like Dan Yocum's Pietenpol
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2011 11:31 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Luggage Pod
Something like this?:
https://picasaweb.google.com/TresClements/Thanksgiving2008#52750569945073709
14
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348814#348814
Message 17
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Yep. I tried to get Tres to sell me the bomb pod, as he called it, but he wouldn't.
Oh, well. Maybe I'll try again noe that he's flying the Boomerang.
Dan
--
Dan Yocum
yocum137@gmail.com
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
On Aug 7, 2011, at 10:31 AM, "Bill Church" <billspiet@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> Something like this?:
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/TresClements/Thanksgiving2008#5275056994507370914
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348814#348814
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
> For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
> ______________________________________________________________________
Message 18
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Mark,
If you haven't even learned to fly yet, why in the world are you worried
about spinning a Pietenpol? Get your flight training, and insist on spin
training if you can find an instructor and an airplane to do it in. Then
build an airplane that will meet your needs. If you are going to be flying
in the high country I would probably look at something like a Bearhawk
rather than a Pietenpol. Call Bob Barrows and ask him about the spin
characteristics of the Bearhawk.
I can tell you from personal experience that a Pietenpol is not an ideal
mountain flying airplane. On the way back from Oshkosh, as I flew over the
Blue Ridge Mountains at 6,000' there were any number of times when I got
caught in downdrafts and put the plane in climb mode, climbing at full
throttle and best rate of climb speed, and was still losing over 500 feet
per minute. Then a minute or two later, I would be throttled back to idle
and still climbing at 700 feet per minute. I love flying the Pietenpol to
Wisconsin every summer - as soon as I cross the Ohio River and get into the
midwest, where flying is easy. It is not a joy to fly a Pietenpol in the
mountains.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of mark lee
Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2011 2:11 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spins
Does the Piet behave enough like a cub to be able to practice some spin
recovery and have it translate.It doesn't sound like most Piets are in any
way prone to spinning.Good recovery is a reflex that I want to have anyway.I
will have to start from scratch with the flight training.So I need to get an
idea of what to look for that would help with a Piet.No doubt about it,I'm
going to have a very full dance card for several years.My goal is to never
get a Piet in that situation but build one that would survive at least in
theory.Money,guns,lawyers and good flight training should help with the
other problems,I hope.
Please don't archive.I want them to forget about this in time.
On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 10:03 AM, Graham Hansen <ghans@cable-lynx.net> wrote:
I'm with Jack Phillips on this one. A few years ago I submitted a post on
this topic and it should be languishing in the archives, so I 'll not repeat
it.
I have been flying my Piet for over forty years and have never spun it. Some
reasons:
1. Type-certified production airplanes are built according to a pretty rigid
specification in order that each aircraft will have predictable and safe
flying characteristics, including spin behavior and spin recovery. One Piper
J3, for example, will behave in the same way as all others of the type,
provided they all conform to the original specification.
2. Homebuilts tend to vary and no two of the same design are exactly
alike.Variations in CG location, rigging and other deviations from the plans
may create problems in spin behaviour and recovery.
3. There is no space for a parachute in my Pietenpol and I am not inclined
to risk losing my airplane by having to abandon it, even if there was room
for both me and a parachute. (Note that the weight of a parachute would be
well aft and could have a bad effect on spin behavior.)
Back in the 1930s several pilots I knew used to spin Pietenpols with heavy
Ford A engines up front, but these guys were young, lean and light (also
brave!). Presumably the CG was far enough forward or they wouldn't have been
able to tell me about it.
Personally, I will spin a type-certified airplane provided it conforms to
the original type specification and is not placarded against spinning, but I
will not do it with my Pietenpol. If I need spin and recovery practice I'll
use an unmodified Luscombe or Taylorcraft..
Graham Hansen Pietenpol Cf-AUN in wet central Alberta, Canada
===================================
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
===================================
http://forums.matronics.com
===================================
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
Message 19
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Has anyone seen these. Seems to be a Pietenpol on view.
Regards
Gerry
Message 20
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Here is the Link!!!!
http://www.uflyit.com/cargo_pods.htm
Message 21
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Nice....she'll be in good company with some of Denny's beauties and the
Wiley Post Bird. Nice collection
Ryan
do not archive
On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 8:39 PM, Baldeagle <baldeagle27@earthlink.net> wrote:
> baldeagle27@earthlink.net>
>
> The new home for Will's Piet:
>
> http://www.eaglesmereairmuseum.org/
>
> Will and Frank Pavliga and I flew a lot of miles together
>
>
> -
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348716#348716
>
>
Message 22
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I have not spun 41CC, although I've been tempted to a couple of times.
My only hesitation was that my instructor, who is very competent flying
aerobatics, told me that he would prefer that the airplane have a little
more rudder before he would spin it.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket"
Medford, OR
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 23
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To say I haven't learned to fly yet isn't exactly true.It's more of a matte
r
of learning to fly in a very different environment in a different kind of
aircraft.I have a lot of air time at high altitude over the mountains.Also
have been involved with building gyros and the PRA.Still I do realize that
I
need to start over from scratch.I'm not concerned with putting a Pietenpol
into a spin.That's another post from someone else.But I am going to have to
get the proper license and do it right.So finding out what acts much like a
Piet and spending the money on that type of training is important.I was
asking if a Cub was similar because I would look for instruction in one
later on.The kind of air you describe is what I spent years looking for and
dealing with. My woodworking skills should be a help.Welding is another
educational problem that I've got to overcome.First I've got to buy that
elephant before I eat it.Things at least in that dept are looking pretty
good.
Do not archive
On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>wrot
e:
> ** ** ** **
>
> Mark,****
>
> ** **
>
> If you haven=92t even learned to fly yet, why in the world are you worrie
d
> about spinning a Pietenpol? Get your flight training, and insist on spin
> training if you can find an instructor and an airplane to do it in. Then
> build an airplane that will meet your needs. If you are going to be flyi
ng
> in the high country I would probably look at something like a Bearhawk
> rather than a Pietenpol. Call Bob Barrows and ask him about the spin
> characteristics of the Bearhawk.****
>
> ** **
>
> I can tell you from personal experience that a Pietenpol is not an ideal
> mountain flying airplane. On the way back from Oshkosh, as I flew over t
he
> Blue Ridge Mountains at 6,000=92 there were any number of times when I go
t
> caught in downdrafts and put the plane in climb mode, climbing at full
> throttle and best rate of climb speed, and was still losing over 500 feet
> per minute. Then a minute or two later, I would be throttled back to idl
e
> and still climbing at 700 feet per minute. I love flying the Pietenpol t
o
> **Wisconsin** every summer ' as soon as I cross the **Ohio River** and
get
> into the midwest, where flying is easy. It is not a joy to fly a Pietenp
ol
> in the mountains.****
>
> ** **
>
> Jack Phillips****
>
> NX899JP****
>
> ****Smith Mountain Lake**, **Virginia********
>
> ** **
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *mark lee
> *Sent:* Sunday, August 07, 2011 2:11 PM
>
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Spins****
>
> ** **
>
> Does the Piet behave enough like a cub to be able to practice some spin
> recovery and have it translate.It doesn't sound like most Piets are in an
y
> way prone to spinning.Good recovery is a reflex that I want to have anywa
y.I
> will have to start from scratch with the flight training.So I need to get
an
> idea of what to look for that would help with a Piet.No doubt about it,I'
m
> going to have a very full dance card for several years.My goal is to neve
r
> get a Piet in that situation but build one that would survive at least in
> theory.Money,guns,lawyers and good flight training should help with the
> other problems,I hope.
>
> ****
>
> Please don't archive.I want them to forget about this in time.
>
> On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 10:03 AM, Graham Hansen <ghans@cable-lynx.net>
> wrote:****
>
> ghans@cable-lynx.net>
>
> I'm with Jack Phillips on this one. A few years ago I submitted a post on
> this topic and it should be languishing in the archives, so I 'll not rep
eat
> it.
>
> I have been flying my Piet for over forty years and have never spun it.
> Some reasons:
>
> 1. Type-certified production airplanes are built according to a pretty
> rigid specification in order that each aircraft will have predictable and
> safe flying characteristics, including spin behavior and spin recovery. O
ne
> Piper J3, for example, will behave in the same way as all others of the
> type, provided they all conform to the original specification.
>
> 2. Homebuilts tend to vary and no two of the same design are exactly
> alike.Variations in CG location, rigging and other deviations from the pl
ans
> may create problems in spin behaviour and recovery.
>
> 3. There is no space for a parachute in my Pietenpol and I am not incline
d
> to risk losing my airplane by having to abandon it, even if there was roo
m
> for both me and a parachute. (Note that the weight of a parachute would b
e
> well aft and could have a bad effect on spin behavior.)
>
> Back in the 1930s several pilots I knew used to spin Pietenpols with heav
y
> Ford A engines up front, but these guys were young, lean and light (also
> brave!). Presumably the CG was far enough forward or they wouldn't have b
een
> able to tell me about it.
>
> Personally, I will spin a type-certified airplane provided it conforms to
> the original type specification and is not placarded against spinning, bu
t I
> will not do it with my Pietenpol. If I need spin and recovery practice I'
ll
> use an unmodified Luscombe or Taylorcraft..
>
> Graham Hansen Pietenpol Cf-AUN in wet central **Alberta**, ****Canada
*
> *******
>
>
> ==========
> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
Message 24
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So in regards to that question, yes a Cub is an excellent trainer for a
Pietenpol. I used to own a Cub and one of the reasons I chose to build a
Piet is because it flies very much like a Cub. When I finished my Piet,
before I flew it I got a couple of hours in a friend's J-3, even though I
owned a Cessna 140. The Cub flies so much like a Piet that it is an
excellent trainer for ti.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of mark lee
Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2011 7:56 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spins
To say I haven't learned to fly yet isn't exactly true.It's more of a matter
of learning to fly in a very different environment in a different kind of
aircraft.I have a lot of air time at high altitude over the mountains.Also
have been involved with building gyros and the PRA.Still I do realize that I
need to start over from scratch.I'm not concerned with putting a Pietenpol
into a spin.That's another post from someone else.But I am going to have to
get the proper license and do it right.So finding out what acts much like a
Piet and spending the money on that type of training is important.I was
asking if a Cub was similar because I would look for instruction in one
later on.The kind of air you describe is what I spent years looking for and
dealing with. My woodworking skills should be a help.Welding is another
educational problem that I've got to overcome.First I've got to buy that
elephant before I eat it.Things at least in that dept are looking pretty
good.
Do not archive
On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
Mark,
If you haven't even learned to fly yet, why in the world are you worried
about spinning a Pietenpol? Get your flight training, and insist on spin
training if you can find an instructor and an airplane to do it in. Then
build an airplane that will meet your needs. If you are going to be flying
in the high country I would probably look at something like a Bearhawk
rather than a Pietenpol. Call Bob Barrows and ask him about the spin
characteristics of the Bearhawk.
I can tell you from personal experience that a Pietenpol is not an ideal
mountain flying airplane. On the way back from Oshkosh, as I flew over the
Blue Ridge Mountains at 6,000' there were any number of times when I got
caught in downdrafts and put the plane in climb mode, climbing at full
throttle and best rate of climb speed, and was still losing over 500 feet
per minute. Then a minute or two later, I would be throttled back to idle
and still climbing at 700 feet per minute. I love flying the Pietenpol to
Wisconsin every summer - as soon as I cross the Ohio River and get into the
midwest, where flying is easy. It is not a joy to fly a Pietenpol in the
mountains.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of mark lee
Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2011 2:11 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spins
Does the Piet behave enough like a cub to be able to practice some spin
recovery and have it translate.It doesn't sound like most Piets are in any
way prone to spinning.Good recovery is a reflex that I want to have anyway.I
will have to start from scratch with the flight training.So I need to get an
idea of what to look for that would help with a Piet.No doubt about it,I'm
going to have a very full dance card for several years.My goal is to never
get a Piet in that situation but build one that would survive at least in
theory.Money,guns,lawyers and good flight training should help with the
other problems,I hope.
Please don't archive.I want them to forget about this in time.
On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 10:03 AM, Graham Hansen <ghans@cable-lynx.net> wrote:
I'm with Jack Phillips on this one. A few years ago I submitted a post on
this topic and it should be languishing in the archives, so I 'll not repeat
it.
I have been flying my Piet for over forty years and have never spun it. Some
reasons:
1. Type-certified production airplanes are built according to a pretty rigid
specification in order that each aircraft will have predictable and safe
flying characteristics, including spin behavior and spin recovery. One Piper
J3, for example, will behave in the same way as all others of the type,
provided they all conform to the original specification.
2. Homebuilts tend to vary and no two of the same design are exactly
alike.Variations in CG location, rigging and other deviations from the plans
may create problems in spin behaviour and recovery.
3. There is no space for a parachute in my Pietenpol and I am not inclined
to risk losing my airplane by having to abandon it, even if there was room
for both me and a parachute. (Note that the weight of a parachute would be
well aft and could have a bad effect on spin behavior.)
Back in the 1930s several pilots I knew used to spin Pietenpols with heavy
Ford A engines up front, but these guys were young, lean and light (also
brave!). Presumably the CG was far enough forward or they wouldn't have been
able to tell me about it.
Personally, I will spin a type-certified airplane provided it conforms to
the original type specification and is not placarded against spinning, but I
will not do it with my Pietenpol. If I need spin and recovery practice I'll
use an unmodified Luscombe or Taylorcraft..
Graham Hansen Pietenpol Cf-AUN in wet central Alberta, Canada
==========
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 25
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Jack, it was me that was interested in doing spins. I'm rated in land airplanes
under 12,500 pounds, with at least one reciprocating engine, and free balloons
with airborne heaters. I don't have as much air time as Mark does in the mountains,
but what I do have is in unpowered ultralights. Like Mark, my mountain
flying time is spent looking for the updrafts to gain altitude, and quickly
flying thru the downdrafts, or avoiding the areas where a downdraft is likely
to happen.
--------
HOMEBUILDER
Will WORK for Spruce
Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings,
GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348873#348873
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