---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 08/08/11: 27 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:30 AM - Re: Spins (Charles Campbell) 2. 05:36 AM - Re: Re: Luggage Pod (Charles Campbell) 3. 06:32 AM - Wise words from a wise man (cjborsuk) 4. 08:35 AM - Engine out (Ozarkflyer) 5. 09:06 AM - Re: Engine out (Jose Dominguez) 6. 10:09 AM - marvel carb (Robert S. Edson) 7. 10:32 AM - Re: marvel carb (Dan Yocum) 8. 10:51 AM - Re: Engine out (Michael Perez) 9. 10:56 AM - Re: marvel carb (Gene Rambo) 10. 11:11 AM - Re: Luggage Pod (Billy McCaskill) 11. 11:23 AM - Re: Luggage Pod (Gerry Holland) 12. 12:58 PM - Re: Engine out (Ozarkflyer) 13. 01:19 PM - Re: Engine out (Charles Campbell) 14. 01:22 PM - Re: Engine out (Charles Campbell) 15. 02:08 PM - Piet for Sale (Lagowski Morrow) 16. 02:27 PM - Re: marvel carb (shad bell) 17. 02:37 PM - Re: Engine out (Hans Van Der Voort) 18. 02:40 PM - Re: Luggage Pod (Billy McCaskill) 19. 04:50 PM - Re: Engine out (tdudley@umn.edu) 20. 05:14 PM - Annual Inspection Checklist (TriScout) 21. 05:26 PM - Re: Annual Inspection Checklist (Jack Phillips) 22. 05:30 PM - Engine out (Kenneth M. Heide) 23. 05:31 PM - Re: Annual Inspection Checklist (Dan Yocum) 24. 07:53 PM - Re: Annual Inspection Checklist (TriScout) 25. 07:55 PM - Re: Engine out (Baldeagle) 26. 08:40 PM - New Crankshafts for Fords (macz@peak.org) 27. 09:33 PM - Re: New Crankshafts for Fords (mark lee) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:30:49 AM PST US From: "Charles Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spins Just practice stall recovery. Every spin starts with a stall. If you can recover from a stall you have already done the important part of spin recovery. I used to do a spin with a student who was about ready for solo, just to show him what it was like. I stopped that when one of my students quit the training because the spin scared the desire to fly out of him. 2 cents wortth. ----- Original Message ----- From: mark lee To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2011 2:10 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spins Does the Piet behave enough like a cub to be able to practice some spin recovery and have it translate.It doesn't sound like most Piets are in any way prone to spinning.Good recovery is a reflex that I want to have anyway.I will have to start from scratch with the flight training.So I need to get an idea of what to look for that would help with a Piet.No doubt about it,I'm going to have a very full dance card for several years.My goal is to never get a Piet in that situation but build one that would survive at least in theory.Money,guns,lawyers and good flight training should help with the other problems,I hope. Please don't archive.I want them to forget about this in time. On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 10:03 AM, Graham Hansen wrote: I'm with Jack Phillips on this one. A few years ago I submitted a post on this topic and it should be languishing in the archives, so I 'll not repeat it. I have been flying my Piet for over forty years and have never spun it. Some reasons: 1. Type-certified production airplanes are built according to a pretty rigid specification in order that each aircraft will have predictable and safe flying characteristics, including spin behavior and spin recovery. One Piper J3, for example, will behave in the same way as all others of the type, provided they all conform to the original specification. 2. Homebuilts tend to vary and no two of the same design are exactly alike.Variations in CG location, rigging and other deviations from the plans may create problems in spin behaviour and recovery. 3. There is no space for a parachute in my Pietenpol and I am not inclined to risk losing my airplane by having to abandon it, even if there was room for both me and a parachute. (Note that the weight of a parachute would be well aft and could have a bad effect on spin behavior.) Back in the 1930s several pilots I knew used to spin Pietenpols with heavy Ford A engines up front, but these guys were young, lean and light (also brave!). Presumably the CG was far enough forward or they wouldn't have been able to tell me about it. Personally, I will spin a type-certified airplane provided it conforms to the original type specification and is not placarded against spinning, but I will not do it with my Pietenpol. If I need spin and recovery practice I'll use an unmodified Luscombe or Taylorcraft.. Graham Hansen Pietenpol Cf-AUN in wet central Alberta, Canada st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:36:16 AM PST US From: "Charles Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Luggage Pod Has anyone seen what? Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerry Holland" Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2011 4:16 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Luggage Pod > > > Has anyone seen these. Seems to be a Pietenpol on view. > Regards > Gerry > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:32:47 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wise words from a wise man From: "cjborsuk" In the lated Sport Aviation magazine there is an article written by Dick Vangrunsven from Van's Aircraft that should be required reading for anyone building an airplane. He talks about adding weight to the aircraft and making changes to the plans. Never a hot topic here. ;) Not sure the link will work, but the article starts on page 96. The story he refers to in the June edition (p.32), is about a guy who built a beautiful RV-10 (I can't find the link. That website needs some help). http://www.sportaviationonline.org/sportaviation/201108#pg96 Chuck - Manufacturing metal parts in Raleigh NC! 989CB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348902#348902 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:35:12 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Engine out From: "Ozarkflyer" Just curious....how many of you have suffered an engine-out failure? Either in a Piet or any other aircraft. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348921#348921 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:06:05 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engine out From: Jose Dominguez I had the left engine quit on takeoff wile flying a Cessna 402 for Cape Air. Sent from my iPad On Aug 8, 2011, at 11:32 AM, "Ozarkflyer" wrote: > > Just curious....how many of you have suffered an engine-out failure? Either in a Piet or any other aircraft. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348921#348921 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:09:07 AM PST US From: "Robert S. Edson" Subject: Pietenpol-List: marvel carb We purchased an 0 200 complete with new mags,a remanufactered marvel carb with 30 min. run time. It hadn't been run for 2 years and it starts easy but it has a very bad hesitation when pushing the throttle. The pump works good and it runs good and sounds good . We put a new kit ($300.00) in it and soaked it for a couple days but it didn't help.Tha carb is part # 10-4894-1 marvel. We took a carb off a culver cadet and put it on and it runs beautiful. Does anyone have any suggestions on a remedy. Thank you,Bob ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:32:36 AM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: marvel carb Hi Bob, Check out the following page of collected wisdom of Harry Fenton: http://bowersflybaby.com/tech/fenton.htm In particular search for the term 'Marvel' and you'll find a few articles regarding these carbs. The one I'm looking at is called "A65 Hesitiation/Miss" (yes, that's a typo). The summary is this: "You probably have some blocked bleed holes in the carb. If you look into the carb throat, you will see a series of holes running vertically in the bore. As the butterfly opens, more of the holes are exposed. There is an airbleed circuit which provides the transition from idle to cruise power settings. I'm pretty sure that this is the problem. Could be that the throttle shaft is too loose in the carb housing and air is being pulled past the elongated shaft holes. By the way, I'm assuming that you have a Marvel Schebler MAS carb. The only fix is to get the carb to a shop to run on a bench." Best! Dan On 08/08/2011 12:06 PM, Robert S. Edson wrote: > We purchased an 0 200 complete with new mags,a remanufactered marvel > carb with 30 min. run time. It hadn't been run for 2 years and it starts > easy but it has a very bad hesitation when pushing the throttle. The > pump works good and it runs good and sounds good . We put a new kit > ($300.00) in it and soaked it for a couple days but it didn't help.Tha > carb is part # 10-4894-1 marvel. We took a carb off a culver cadet and > put it on and it runs beautiful. Does anyone have any suggestions on a > remedy. Thank you,Bob > > * > > > * > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > ______________________________________________________________________ -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:51:54 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engine out I'm suffering from that now...my engine is out. As in out of the plane, as in I don't have one. 8^[ ) Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com Do not archive (assuming this actually works) ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:56:03 AM PST US From: Gene Rambo Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: marvel carb before you unblock bleed holes=2C you need to make sure what ones are what. There is a vent hole in some carburetors that has to be blocked in some a pplications. If you have ever seen a tailwheel aircraft with a C85 that dr ipped all the time=2C it is a sure bet the carb came off of an Ercoupe or s ome other nosewheel (training wheel) type aircraft. The solution is to blo ck a certain port=2C although I cannot recall how to locate and identify it . A carb shop could probably help. Gene > Date: Mon=2C 8 Aug 2011 12:28:10 -0500 > From: yocum@fnal.gov > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: marvel carb > > > Hi Bob=2C > > Check out the following page of collected wisdom of Harry Fenton: > > http://bowersflybaby.com/tech/fenton.htm > > In particular search for the term 'Marvel' and you'll find a few > articles regarding these carbs. The one I'm looking at is called "A65 > Hesitiation/Miss" (yes=2C that's a typo). The summary is this: > > "You probably have some blocked bleed holes in the carb. If you look > into the carb throat=2C you will see a series of holes running vertically > in the bore. As the butterfly opens=2C more of the holes are exposed. > There is an airbleed circuit which provides the transition from idle to > cruise power settings. I'm pretty sure that this is the problem. Could > be that the throttle shaft is too loose in the carb housing and air is > being pulled past the elongated shaft holes. By the way=2C I'm assuming > that you have a Marvel Schebler MAS carb. The only fix is to get the > carb to a shop to run on a bench." > > Best! > Dan > > > > On 08/08/2011 12:06 PM=2C Robert S. Edson wrote: > > We purchased an 0 200 complete with new mags=2Ca remanufactered marvel > > carb with 30 min. run time. It hadn't been run for 2 years and it start s > > easy but it has a very bad hesitation when pushing the throttle. The > > pump works good and it runs good and sounds good . We put a new kit > > ($300.00) in it and soaked it for a couple days but it didn't help.Tha > > carb is part # 10-4894-1 marvel. We took a carb off a culver cadet and > > put it on and it runs beautiful. Does anyone have any suggestions on a > > remedy. Thank you=2CBob > > > > * > > > > > > * > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > -- > Dan Yocum > Fermilab 630.840.6509 > yocum@fnal.gov=2C http://fermigrid.fnal.gov > "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:11:29 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Luggage Pod From: "Billy McCaskill" Gerry, that's a Grega GN-1 in the photo with the pod attached to the wing strut. Not exactly a Piet, but close. The pod should work on a Piet just as well as on the GN-1. I don't think that I'd put a lot of heavy stuff in a cargo pod either on the wing strut or hanging from the belly. I'd restrict it to bulky but lightweight stuff like sleeping bags, small tent, change of clothes, etc. Just my $.02. do not archive -------- Billy McCaskill Urbana, IL tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348945#348945 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:23:47 AM PST US From: Gerry Holland Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Luggage Pod Billy Hi from UK. Thanks for clearing up the Piet type aircraft. I'm not from the Piet world but like them a lot. Belonging to this Pietenpol List is great as I have a similar age of design Parasol, The Corben Junior Ace. I'll send you a picture to keep your spirits up before the conquest of the ribs! Regards Gerry ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:58:04 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Engine out From: "Ozarkflyer" Michael I hope you're on the ground. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348955#348955 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:19:38 PM PST US From: "Charles Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engine out I had an engine failure in a Navy SNJ. I think it was carb ice. I dead stick landed at an auxilliary air field. Restarted the engine and it checked out fine so I took off and went back to main base. When that engine quit, man it really got quiet all of a sudden. Don't want it to happen again. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ozarkflyer" Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 11:32 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Engine out > > Just curious....how many of you have suffered an engine-out failure? > Either in a Piet or any other aircraft. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348921#348921 > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:22:06 PM PST US From: "Charles Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engine out Yeah, Michael. I'm suffering from that 'engine out' also. ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Perez To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 1:47 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engine out I'm suffering from that now...my engine is out. As in out of the plane, as in I don't have one. 8^[ ) Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com Do not archive (assuming this actually works) ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:08:44 PM PST US From: "Lagowski Morrow" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet for Sale My Piet is still for sale and no reasonable offer will be refused. Built in 2008. TTAE~55hours. Rebuilt Continental 65. Hand prop. Basic instruments. Steerable Scott tail wheel. Fly Baby landing gear. 800x6 tires. Hangered. In N.W. Michigan. Was asking $14,750--Jim Lagowski--231-709-1373 (cell ) ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:27:01 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: marvel carb Posibly the wrong size main-jet-is installed, The ma3spa has several di fferent applications, I think there are different size-venturis for the m a3spa series as well.- If you can identify what pn's (jets, venturi) are installed you could look up which pn numbers are supposed to be installed i n an ilistrated parts catalog.- One more thought, Is it a lean condition or a overly rich hesitation (loading up).- If it is too rich on throttle up, one W.A.G., maybe the accelrator pump piston arm (actuation arm-to pist on connection thingy) is in the wrong hole allowing more fuel to be squirte d into the venturi (longer stroke), thus flooding it out. - My 2 cents worth, let us know what fixes it, Shad --- On Mon, 8/8/11, Robert S. Edson wrote: From: Robert S. Edson Subject: Pietenpol-List: marvel carb We purchased- an 0 200 complete with new mags,a remanufactered marvel car b with 30 min. run time. It hadn't been run for 2 years and it starts easy but it has a very bad hesitation when pushing the throttle. The pump works good and it runs good and sounds good . We put a new kit ($300.00) in it- and soaked it for a couple days but it didn't help.Tha carb is part # 10-48 94-1 marvel.-We took a carb off a culver cadet and put it on and it runs beautiful.-Does anyone have any suggestions on a remedy.--Thank you,B ob ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:37:24 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engine out From: Hans Van Der Voort I did, three weeks after my first flight in my Pietenpol. Engine out was caused by my flawed fuel system. I orginally had a 2 1/2 gallon header tank behind the firewall this header tank was vented in a high pressure area. While the main tank was vented in low pressure area. The short of it, when the 2 1/2 gallon Header tank was empty the engine qui t. The header tank started filling again when I was stationary on the Ground. No damage, just a lesson learned. Needles to say fuel system has been changed. Hans NX15KV -----Original Message----- From: Ozarkflyer Sent: Mon, Aug 8, 2011 10:57 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: Engine out Just curious....how many of you have suffered an engine-out failure? Eithe r in a Piet or any other aircraft. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348921#348921 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:40:32 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Luggage Pod From: "Billy McCaskill" i just got back from the Brodhead Piet reunion/ fly-in a few weeks ago, so my spirits are still quite high Gerry! But the entire Piet list and I are always suckers for pictures, so send them on! And welcome to the list! -------- Billy McCaskill Urbana, IL tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348965#348965 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 04:50:00 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Engine out From: "tdudley@umn.edu" I was thirteen in a Quicksilver MX Ultralight. My dad said "always have a landing spot in mind". Good advice. I even landed with wheels between the bean rows. First time I remember swearing out loud. Tom Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348982#348982 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:14:08 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Annual Inspection Checklist From: "TriScout" Hello all.. Does anyone use a checklist of items to tackle on an annual conditional inpection? I'm about to annual the GN-1 w/the help of a DAR. I thought there was once a list or two floating around the forum a yr or so ago that had some good stuff on it. Cannot seem to find it in the archives. Thx in advance.. Larry Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348984#348984 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 05:26:21 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Annual Inspection Checklist Larry, This is the list I use for my annual Condition Inspection. It is geared towards my airplane, which has wire wheels and a straight axle, but should give you a good starting point. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TriScout Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 8:11 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Annual Inspection Checklist Hello all.. Does anyone use a checklist of items to tackle on an annual conditional inpection? I'm about to annual the GN-1 w/the help of a DAR. I thought there was once a list or two floating around the forum a yr or so ago that had some good stuff on it. Cannot seem to find it in the archives. Thx in advance.. Larry Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348984#348984 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 05:30:18 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Engine out From: "Kenneth M. Heide" When I started flying challenger ultralights the first thing I learned was to cut power at 3 thousand feet and land back at the airport! That airplane could gulide anywhere! No fear of engine out as it taught me to fly the plane and land safe. KMH Sent from my iPhone ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 05:31:31 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Annual Inspection Checklist From: Dan Yocum Larry, Don't search on "annual". Search on "condition inspection.". Jack posted his, and someone else posted theirs... I think there are 3 Word docs in the matronics archives. I'm not near my laptop, so I can't send you one directly. Dan -- Dan Yocum yocum137@gmail.com "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." On Aug 8, 2011, at 7:11 PM, "TriScout" wrote: > > Hello all.. > > Does anyone use a checklist of items to tackle on an annual conditional inpection? I'm about to annual the GN-1 w/the help of a DAR. I thought there was once a list or two floating around the forum a yr or so ago that had some good stuff on it. Cannot seem to find it in the archives. Thx in advance.. > > Larry > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348984#348984 > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > ______________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:53:09 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Annual Inspection Checklist From: "TriScout" Thanks.. I printed your stuff Jack. I think that's the one I saw before. There's alot of good detail in it. Thanks all.. Larry Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348999#348999 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:55:06 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Engine out From: "Baldeagle" 13691 with a broken crankshaft, in the beans near Momence, IL in July 2009 - Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349000#349000 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:40:19 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Crankshafts for Fords From: macz@peak.org I just ran across an announcement that SCAT Enterprises, which is well-known for cranks for racing VWs and lately for newer Ford V-8 blocks, is now offering Chromoly forged cranks for Model As and Ts. They are apparently counterweighted, accurately machined and balanced and micropolished. I assume they are for insert bearings, but the announcement didn't say one way or the other. Sound interesting for Ford aficionados who can't find a good, straight, stock crank. --Mac in Oregon ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 09:33:51 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Crankshafts for Fords From: mark lee There have been counter balanced cranks available for Ts for years.They are made from heat treated Spheroidal Graphite Iron.It is a surprise that this is new for the A.The T cranks were over 1,400 dollars three years ago.I don't remember them being drilled.They make a lot of difference to the T engines bearing life.These Chromoly Forged A Cranks might really be a good thing. On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 8:37 PM, wrote: > > I just ran across an announcement that SCAT Enterprises, which is > well-known for cranks for racing VWs and lately for newer Ford V-8 blocks, > is now offering Chromoly forged cranks for Model As and Ts. > > They are apparently counterweighted, accurately machined and balanced and > micropolished. I assume they are for insert bearings, but the > announcement didn't say one way or the other. > > Sound interesting for Ford aficionados who can't find a good, straight, > stock crank. > > --Mac in Oregon > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.