---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 08/18/11: 23 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:32 AM - Re: external static port (Dan Yocum) 2. 07:42 AM - Re: external static port (Dan Yocum) 3. 08:50 AM - Re: Two Part Post- need help in SE Ohio looking at a fuselage (skipgadd@earthlink.net) 4. 09:11 AM - Re: Idea about front cockpit side door (giacummo) 5. 09:19 AM - Re: Idea about front cockpit side door (womenfly2) 6. 09:40 AM - Re: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door (Doug Dever) 7. 09:53 AM - Re: Idea about front cockpit side door (Bill Church) 8. 10:48 AM - Re: Two Part Post- need help in SE Ohio looking at a fuselage (Bill Church) 9. 12:13 PM - Different thot about door (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG FORSCOM) 10. 03:54 PM - update (airlion) 11. 04:04 PM - Re: update (Billy McCaskill) 12. 04:07 PM - Re: update (gboothe5@comcast.net) 13. 04:17 PM - Re: update (Jack Phillips) 14. 04:24 PM - Re: update (Dan Yocum) 15. 05:33 PM - Green's Airplane Building suggestions (Pieti Lowell) 16. 05:38 PM - Re: Different thot about door (IT Girl) 17. 05:40 PM - Re: Thomasville Ga Fly-in? (Gene Rambo) 18. 05:41 PM - Re: Any Piets/Piet Builders in the St Augusting, FL area? (IT Girl) 19. 06:02 PM - Re: Re: Any Piets/Piet Builders in the St Augusting, FL area? (airlion) 20. 06:50 PM - Re: Thomasville Ga Fly-in? (Jerry Dotson) 21. 07:48 PM - Re: Re: Thomasville Ga Fly-in? (Gene Rambo) 22. 09:14 PM - Re: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door (Jim Boyer) 23. 10:11 PM - external static port (Oscar Zuniga) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:32:59 AM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: external static port Hi Hans, On 08/17/2011 04:17 PM, Hans Van Der Voort wrote: > Did you check if the pitot is not leaking in to the static port. > The design is fairly crude and some of the welding could have created a > pin hole. Oh, I didn't even think of that. That would certainly account for the ram pressure on the static side, and the low airspeed on the pitot. I'll check it for leaks next time I'm at the airport. Thanks! Dan ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:42:15 AM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: external static port On 08/17/2011 03:09 PM, Jack Phillips wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips" > > Dan, > > I'm using a static port. Don't know if it's any real benefit from just > leaving the ports open on the back of the instruments. Maybe I should try > opening them up - I might get more airspeed and get to Brodhead in 10 hours > instead of 12 :-) Heck, you should just disconnect everything - you'll get there in 30 minutes flat! do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:50:15 AM PST US From: "skipgadd@earthlink.net" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Two Part Post- need help in SE Ohio looking at a fuselage Terry, Actually that fuze is located at Hales Landing WV(2WV3). Mike has another residence in Washington WV. I took the golf cart down to Mikes hangar and looked at the fuze just now. Mike is a great welder, all welds appear professional. All tabs that he could think of are on except the elevator bell crank, the plans don't show tabs. He has not injected tube oil. The fuze is made to plans, correct tube size and all except he used 4130 in place of mild steel. The steel tube Pietenpol plans are for the 13' 5", Flying and glider size fuselage. Mike is my neighbor, that being said I think anybody who looked at this fuze would think it is a great deal as I do. You could not buy the steel and argon to build this for the price, and you would have to be a really good welder. Feel free to email me on or off list. Skip > [Original Message] > From: jarheadpilot82 > To: > Date: 8/17/2011 6:39:30 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Two Part Post- need help in SE Ohio looking at a fuselage > > > To the forum- > > I have found a welded steel tube fuselage on Barnstormers. > He has sent me pictures which I can upload if anyone is interested. The seller says he is a welder by profession and TIG welded it about 5 years ago and stopped at that point. he is building something with an enclosed cockpit as he decided it was too cold up there to fly the Piet year round. > > Here are my questions- > > 1. What are the pluses and minuses of the steel tube fuse? > 2. I just do not know value, but $1000 dollars seems like a good price. Your thoughts? > 3. I am a little nervous sending a Grand to someone I do not know for something sight unseen. Are there any forum members that are in the SE Ohio area that might be able to go take a look for me? I would be happy to reimburse for a tank of 100LL if someone s looking to do something other than a $100 hamburger. The fuse is in Washington WV, about 35 miles east of Athens OH. > > If you want to email me off-forum you can at jarheadpilot82 (at) hotmail (dot) com. > Thanks in advance for your advice and help. > > -------- > Semper Fi, > > Terry Hand ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:11:44 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door From: "giacummo" Bill, I agree with you, open and closing with bolts it's an uncomfortable idea, but I think (I did't see any statistic about) that the major time the piets fly with just the pilot.. about dimenssions, of course, it just an idea, not a design. I do not messure anything yet, i am going to do it.. so from yours three points I am going to see 2, the lenght of the fitting, and how to fix the square tube to the wood without damage to much de longeron. -------- Mario Giacummo http://vgmk1.blogspot.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349859#349859 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:19:18 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door From: "womenfly2" giacummo ... what you are doing here is a very unsafe and uncalculated engineered design. ... but what do I know. -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349861#349861 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:40:55 AM PST US From: Doug Dever Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door If you want a door=2C why not just use Kerri Ann's plans. Proven design. Just my .02 Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door > From: mario.giacummo@gmail.com > Date: Thu=2C 18 Aug 2011 09:09:21 -0700 > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > m> > > Bill=2C > > I agree with you=2C open and closing with bolts it's an uncomfortable ide a=2C but I think (I did't see any statistic about) that the major time the piets fly with just the pilot.. about dimenssions=2C of course=2C it just a n idea=2C not a design. > I do not messure anything yet=2C i am going to do it.. so from yours thre e points I am going to see 2=2C the lenght of the fitting=2C and how to fix the square tube to the wood without damage to much de longeron. > > -------- > Mario Giacummo > http://vgmk1.blogspot.com > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349859#349859 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:53:51 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door From: "Bill Church" Mario, I think you'll find that the fittings would need to be so long that there would not be a large enough opening to make access to the front seat any easier. Really, the best way to incorporate a front door in an Air Camper is by building a steel tube fuselage. The welded steel joints are much more able to properly transfer the structural loads. Putting a passenger door in a wooden fuselage requires a significant amount of extra wood (extra wood = extra weight, and extra weight means that your passenger carrying capacity is lessened). I have spoken with a Pietenpol builder who eventually also became the owner of an Air Camper with a door, and found the Piet with the passenger door to be no easier to get into than the standard Piet (no door). It has something to do with the position that one must be in to enter the front cockpit, and having the door did nothing to make it easier. That's what he told me. In any case - be careful with any modifications. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349867#349867 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:48:53 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Two Part Post- need help in SE Ohio looking at a fuselage From: "Bill Church" I'd say that $1000 for a well built steel tube fuselage, built with 4130, complete with landing gear and control stick assembly is a deal. Subtract the cost of materials and divide the remainder by the number of hours of work, and you have one very poorly paid welder. On another note... Just curious, but how is this a "Two Part Post", as referred to in the topic title? Where's Part two? Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349870#349870 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:13:38 PM PST US From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG FORSCOM" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Different thot about door I saw a photo of a barnstorming Biplane that carried two or three in the front seat. Open cockpit. But about where the "normal" Piet door was they had the opening, but no door. Just open. What would that do to drag? It would be lighter. Just a lurker Steve "Be home soon" D ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:54:42 PM PST US From: airlion Subject: Pietenpol-List: update Hey ya'll. Just to let you know what is going on. I AM rebuilding my Piet. Thanks to Tim Willis for tail feather parts and Jack Phillips for wing rib parts, the rebuild is making progress. Also, thanks to Ryan Mueller for ordering the rib package. My fuse is back on the gear after all the welding repairs and fixing damage to the tail cone. Also I had to rebuild the leading edge of the center section. Jack was able to build 9 ribs untill his accident on his hand. I drove up to Va . to pick up the rest of the rib project and now I have 19 ribs done. I had originally bought the last rib set from C Rubeck, and now I can really appreciate how much work goes into building a Piet. I am planning on taking the corvair to Barnwell S C to put a 5th bearing in while I have the plane torn apart. Now that would give me more incentive to get flying again. I am flying in my cessna 140 to Triple Tree Aerodrome in South Carolina Sept 8 for their Fly in. Will anyone else be there, I am sorry about putting so many I's in this report. Cheers, Gardiner ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:04:25 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: update From: "Billy McCaskill" Nothing wrong with using that many "I's" when you are talking about making progress on your rebuild! Keep it up, and keep us posted. Glad that you are still flying in the 140 while you are getting the Piet back together. -------- Billy McCaskill Urbana, IL tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349892#349892 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:07:45 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: update From: gboothe5@comcast.net Gardiner, Feel free to use as many 'I's as you want! You know you have the good wishes and God Speeds of many friends! Gary ------Original Message------ From: airlion Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com ReplyTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: update Sent: Aug 18, 2011 3:52 PM Hey ya'll. Just to let you know what is going on. I AM rebuilding my Piet. Thanks to Tim Willis for tail feather parts and Jack Phillips for wing rib parts, the rebuild is making progress. Also, thanks to Ryan Mueller for ordering the rib package. My fuse is back on the gear after all the welding repairs and fixing damage to the tail cone. Also I had to rebuild the leading edge of the center section. Jack was able to build 9 ribs untill his accident on his hand. I drove up to Va . to pick up the rest of the rib project and now I have 19 ribs done. I had originally bought the last rib set from C Rubeck, and now I can really appreciate how much work goes into building a Piet. I am planning on taking the corvair to Barnwell S C to put a 5th bearing in while I have the plane torn apart. Now that would give me more incentive to get flying again. I am flying in my cessna 140 to Triple Tree Aerodrome in South Carolina Sept 8 for their Fly in. Will anyone else be there, I am sorry about putting so many I's in this report. Cheers, Gardiner Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:17:37 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: update Great to hear, Gardiner. Karen and I really enjoyed your visit to our home - sorry that my hand injury prevented me from building all your ribs, but I think you're enjying building them yourself now. I'll try to get down to Triple Tree if I can, even if it's just in the RV-4. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virigina -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of airlion Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 6:52 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: update Hey ya'll. Just to let you know what is going on. I AM rebuilding my Piet. Thanks to Tim Willis for tail feather parts and Jack Phillips for wing rib parts, the rebuild is making progress. Also, thanks to Ryan Mueller for ordering the rib package. My fuse is back on the gear after all the welding repairs and fixing damage to the tail cone. Also I had to rebuild the leading edge of the center section. Jack was able to build 9 ribs untill his accident on his hand. I drove up to Va . to pick up the rest of the rib project and now I have 19 ribs done. I had originally bought the last rib set from C Rubeck, and now I can really appreciate how much work goes into building a Piet. I am planning on taking the corvair to Barnwell S C to put a 5th bearing in while I have the plane torn apart. Now that would give me more incentive to get flying again. I am flying in my cessna 140 to Triple Tree Aerodrome in South Carolina Sept 8 for their Fly in. Will anyone else be there, I am sorry about putting so many I's in this report. Cheers, Gardiner ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:24:32 PM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: update I think the "ayes" have it! Glad to hear about the excellent progress! Dan -- Dan Yocum yocum137@gmail.com "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." On Aug 18, 2011, at 6:15 PM, "Jack Phillips" wrote: > > Great to hear, Gardiner. Karen and I really enjoyed your visit to our home > - sorry that my hand injury prevented me from building all your ribs, but I > think you're enjying building them yourself now. > > I'll try to get down to Triple Tree if I can, even if it's just in the RV-4. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Smith Mountain Lake, Virigina > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of airlion > Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 6:52 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: update > > > Hey ya'll. Just to let you know what is going on. I AM rebuilding my Piet. > Thanks to Tim Willis for tail feather parts and Jack Phillips for wing rib > parts, the rebuild is making progress. Also, thanks to Ryan Mueller for > ordering > the rib package. My fuse is back on the gear after all the welding repairs > and > fixing damage to the tail cone. Also I had to rebuild the leading edge of > the > center section. Jack was able to build 9 ribs untill his accident on his > hand. I > drove up to Va . to pick up the rest of the rib project and now I have 19 > ribs > done. I had originally bought the last rib set from C Rubeck, and now I can > really appreciate how much work goes into building a Piet. I am planning on > taking the corvair to Barnwell S C to put a 5th bearing in while I have the > > plane torn apart. Now that would give me more incentive to get flying again. > I > am flying in my cessna 140 to Triple Tree Aerodrome in South Carolina Sept 8 > for > their Fly in. Will anyone else be there, I am sorry about putting so many > I's > in this report. Cheers, Gardiner > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > ______________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:33:42 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Green's Airplane Building suggestions From: "Pieti Lowell" Check out some excellent points on aircraft construction, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HioV-vQvqio Pieti Lowell Don't Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349904#349904 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:38:03 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Different thot about door From: "IT Girl" Not sure about all of that Steve, but come on over when you get home, and we'll give you a ride.... If you can find you way back to G'town. It won't be like riding in your Bonanza... it'll be better. We will even buy lunch. -------- Shelley Tumino IT Girl wife of "Axel" NX899KP DO NOT ARCHIVE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349906#349906 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:40:24 PM PST US From: Gene Rambo Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Thomasville Ga Fly-in? I am from Thomasville. It used to be THE antique airplane fly-in in the co untry (in the 1970s)=2C much like Brodhead has taken over. It has grown ov er the past years into a large fly-in once again. I would like to get home for it=2C but I definitely would advocate anyone else going!!!! I will pr ovide any necessary introductions. Gene Rambo > Date: Wed=2C 17 Aug 2011 13:34:20 -0400 > From: bencharvet@gmail.com > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Thomasville Ga Fly-in? > > > Anybody ever been the the Thomasville Fly-in in October? Looks like a > great two leg flight for me=2C and the wife has even offered to come > along. It would be a great prelude for a trip to Brodhead=2C since its in > the same direction. > > http://www.thomasvilleflyin.com/ > > -- > Ben Charvet=2C PharmD > Staff Pharmacist > Parrish Medical center > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:41:27 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Any Piets/Piet Builders in the St Augusting, FL area? From: "IT Girl" don't you ever stay home :) -------- Shelley Tumino IT Girl wife of "Axel" NX899KP DO NOT ARCHIVE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349907#349907 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:02:57 PM PST US From: airlion Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Any Piets/Piet Builders in the St Augusting, FL area? Shelly, Look up Pat Green in Jacksonville area. He keeps his Piet at the Hilliard Fl airport. He built it about 30 years ago with a corvair engine. Don't know his phone as I lost it. He isvery interesting to talk to especially why he added 10 inches to the verticle fin. Cheers, Gardiner ----- Original Message ---- From: IT Girl Sent: Thu, August 18, 2011 8:39:16 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Any Piets/Piet Builders in the St Augusting, FL area? don't you ever stay home :) -------- Shelley Tumino IT Girl wife of "Axel" NX899KP DO NOT ARCHIVE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349907#349907 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:50:30 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Thomasville Ga Fly-in? From: "Jerry Dotson" Gene, Did you or do you know Jim Dekle? I knew him once upon a time. I think Thomasville 1973 was the last time I saw him. He is a fine gentleman. The whole Dekle clan is good folks. He had a Cessna Airmaster in the rebuild stages. I never knew if he finished it or not. Ben and Gardiner are going this year so I am going to make a real effort to go even if I have to drive(sigh). -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349916#349916 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:48:59 PM PST US From: Gene Rambo Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Thomasville Ga Fly-in? I was at Jim's house a few weeks ago. The Airmaster was nothis=2C it belon ged to Roy Wicker. I used to fly it many years ago. I think that airplane is in England now. I had my own Airmaster=2C and I brought it to the first Pietenpol Fly In I ever attended in 1997 or so. Gene > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Thomasville Ga Fly-in? > From: jdotson@centurylink.net > Date: Thu=2C 18 Aug 2011 18:48:08 -0700 > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > .net> > > Gene=2C > Did you or do you know Jim Dekle? I knew him once upon a time. I think Th omasville 1973 was the last time I saw him. He is a fine gentleman. The who le Dekle clan is good folks. He had a Cessna Airmaster in the rebuild stage s. I never knew if he finished it or not. Ben and Gardiner are going this y ear so I am going to make a real effort to go even if I have to drive(sigh) .. > > -------- > Jerry Dotson > 59 Daniel Johnson Rd > Baker=2C FL 32531 > > Started building NX510JD July=2C 2009 > wing=2C tailfeathers done=2C fuselage rolling > using Lycoming O-235 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349916#349916 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:14:49 PM PST US From: Jim Boyer Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door Hi Bill, Your comments about not being easier to get into a Piet with the cockpit do or (Keri Ann's) disign is not correct. I have a door in my Piet and it is m uch easier to get into.=C2- My wife would not be able to get into a Piet without it as she has two artificial hip joints and one knee joint. She can get into my Piet and Charlie Miller's Piet with no problem. Cheers, Jim B. ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:11:10 PM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: external static port Dan asked- >is anyone else using an external static port, or is >everyone just leaving the static ports open on the back of >their instruments? On 41CC, Corky installed a full pitot-static system as well as a venturi for the gyro instruments. The pitot tube is on the starboard side, mounted to the jury strut, down a ways from the wing so as to be out of the effects of the wing. The static ports are on each side of the fuselage aft of the pilot's seat, pretty much where the elevator walking beam station is located... if memory serves. Plastic tubing connects everything to the instruments. I think the ASI on 41CC is quite responsive and accurate, but I have not experimented with it with the fuselage static ports disconnected and just sensing "cabin" static pressure. I have never noticed any area of reverse sensing or ram effect, even in a sideslip. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket" Medford, OR website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.