---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 08/25/11: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:54 AM - Re: Spruce vs. ????? (Clif Dawson) 2. 12:57 AM - Re: Re: Wooden Lift Struts (Clif Dawson) 3. 01:05 AM - Re: Re: Wooden Lift Struts (Clif Dawson) 4. 04:21 AM - Re: Spruce vs. ????? (Wayne Bressler) 5. 05:21 AM - Re: Spruce vs. ????? (Ben Charvet) 6. 06:27 AM - Re: Spruce vs. ????? (Michael Perez) 7. 06:48 AM - Rib - about to cut wood - spar perpendicular chord line? (MaximumBob) 8. 06:56 AM - Re: Wooden Lift Struts (kevinpurtee) 9. 07:01 AM - Re: flying my 95 year old uncle around in the Piet... () 10. 07:01 AM - Re: flying my 95 year old uncle around in the Piet... (kevinpurtee) 11. 07:05 AM - Re: Flight video (kevinpurtee) 12. 08:22 AM - Re: Wooden Lift Struts (K5YAC) 13. 08:57 AM - Re: flying my 95 year old uncle around in the Piet... (Ken Bickers) 14. 09:53 AM - Re: Re: flying my 95 year old uncle around in the Piet... (Dan Yocum) 15. 02:26 PM - Re: Rib - about to cut wood - spar perpendicular to chord line? (Mild Bill) 16. 05:12 PM - Re: Rib - about to cut wood - spar perpendicular to chord line? (MaximumBob) 17. 08:24 PM - Re: Sharing the Wealth (Amsafetyc@gmail.com) 18. 10:14 PM - Re: Re: Wooden Lift Struts (Clif Dawson) 19. 10:21 PM - Keri-Ann's plans (j_dunavin) 20. 11:01 PM - FW: Cabanes (Spruce vs. ?????) (Gary Boothe) 21. 11:15 PM - Re: Wooden Lift Struts (Billy McCaskill) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:54:12 AM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce vs. ????? No it's not worthless weight. The strength is commenserately more per square inch. Therefore you would resize the parts to bring the weight and strength in line with spruce. Also you can go to the link I've provided previously and compare the weights and strengths for yourself. Clif > > If I remember correctly, douglas fir is 23% heavier than spruce, so that's > worthless weight... > > With any light-weight, low-power aircraft, any increase in empty weight is > significant. Why add worthless weight just to save a few bucks or time > during building? You'll be lugging that dead weight around every time you > go flying. > Wayne Bressler ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:57:16 AM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wooden Lift Struts VERY GOOD!! :-) :-) :-) I love it!! Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: TOM STINEMETZE To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 11:39 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wooden Lift Struts OK, check this out the next time you visit the Bat cave to retrieve the sacred papers. I believe I heard correctly that Bernard P. and Albert E. were the best of buddies. After all, minds like those would find little to discuss with mere mortals such as ourselves. Anyway, the story goes that Bernard and Albert were out flying one day and Bernard mentions that it would be so much less butt clenching if a particular fence was to be removed giving access to a second field and making their runway longer. Albert's little light bulb lights up - he says "Ach! Of course. A unified field theory." And, the rest is history. Honest Injun, that's the way I heard it. Stinemetze and, of course, DO NOT ARCHIVE >>> 8/24/2011 12:28 PM >>> I guess you guys really don't care what BHP was thinking. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 08/24/11 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:05:51 AM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wooden Lift Struts Yes. With anything you use it's not what you use but HOW you use it. Something else to ponder; ALL THE REST OF THE DAMN PLANE IS WOOD! Just remember, those struts attach to the wing spars. Those wing spars support the entire plane 3000' in the air ( including YOU ). And what are they made of?? Just sayin........... :-) Nasty Bad Clif > > I remember Clif's analysis found that solid spruce has more than enough > strength to handle the job. Am I remembering this correctly? > > Chuck > 899CB > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:21:00 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce vs. ????? From: Wayne Bressler Clif, In all fairness, and with due respect, the weight WILL be worthless unless you go through the engineering required to re-design the entire structure to suit Douglas fir (I know, I know, that's what you just said). I should have been more specific and clarified that DF is stronger, and that all members could be resized to accommodate this. According to this EAA wood book I'm reading, DF is 23% stronger, and 26% heavier than spruce. If the entire airframe was redesigned to accommodate the DF, there would only be a 3% increase in weight of the structure. My hunch is that someone who builds their entire airframe from DF will not do the requisite engineering, and their airplane will, in fact, be unnecessarily heavier than an identical example built from spruce. The 23% increased strength isn't needed, as has been proven time and again over the last 80+ years. Now, let's assume all the wood in the completed airframe weighs 200 pounds (that's a total guess). A 26% increase would cost you 52 pounds. That's roughly a 7.5% increase in empty weight (assuming a 700lb empty weight), or 8.6 gallons of 100LL. That's 52 pounds of people, stuff, or gas that you can no longer haul around. In my mind, everything is a compromise. Without a complete reengineering, substituting DF for spruce compromises useful load and performance while unnecessarily increasing strength. It's a lose-meh... All that's saved is money. Wayne Bressler Taildraggers, Inc. www.taildraggersinc.com On Aug 25, 2011, at 3:52 AM, "Clif Dawson" wrote: > > No it's not worthless weight. The strength is > commenserately more per square inch. Therefore > you would resize the parts to bring the weight > and strength in line with spruce. > > Also you can go to the link I've provided previously > and compare the weights and strengths for yourself. > > Clif > > > > >> >> If I remember correctly, douglas fir is 23% heavier than spruce, so that's worthless weight... >> >> With any light-weight, low-power aircraft, any increase in empty weight is significant. Why add worthless weight just to save a few bucks or time during building? You'll be lugging that dead weight around every time you go flying. >> Wayne Bressler > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:21:22 AM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce vs. ????? All that may be true, but its still possible to build a light DF Piet. Mine doesn't have a splinter of Spruce and came in at 692 empty. This subject has been argued on the list as much as the Continental/Corvair issue. It all comes down to the compromise between availability, price, and how much the builder weighs. If you are close to the "average" FAA pilot weight of 170, Douglas Fir may be for you. I guess my point is you have to look at all the options and make your own choice. Ben Charvet On 8/25/2011 7:18 AM, Wayne Bressler wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Wayne Bressler > > Clif, > > In all fairness, and with due respect, the weight WILL be worthless unless you go through the engineering required to re-design the entire structure to suit Douglas fir (I know, I know, that's what you just said). > > I should have been more specific and clarified that DF is stronger, and that all members could be resized to accommodate this. According to this EAA wood book I'm reading, DF is 23% stronger, and 26% heavier than spruce. If the entire airframe was redesigned to accommodate the DF, there would only be a 3% increase in weight of the structure. > > My hunch is that someone who builds their entire airframe from DF will not do the requisite engineering, and their airplane will, in fact, be unnecessarily heavier than an identical example built from spruce. The 23% increased strength isn't needed, as has been proven time and again over the last 80+ years. > > Now, let's assume all the wood in the completed airframe weighs 200 pounds (that's a total guess). A 26% increase would cost you 52 pounds. That's roughly a 7.5% increase in empty weight (assuming a 700lb empty weight), or 8.6 gallons of 100LL. That's 52 pounds of people, stuff, or gas that you can no longer haul around. > > In my mind, everything is a compromise. Without a complete reengineering, substituting DF for spruce compromises useful load and performance while unnecessarily increasing strength. It's a lose-meh... > > All that's saved is money. > > Wayne Bressler > Taildraggers, Inc. > www.taildraggersinc.com > > On Aug 25, 2011, at 3:52 AM, "Clif Dawson" wrote: > >> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Clif Dawson" >> >> No it's not worthless weight. The strength is >> commenserately more per square inch. Therefore >> you would resize the parts to bring the weight >> and strength in line with spruce. >> >> Also you can go to the link I've provided previously >> and compare the weights and strengths for yourself. >> >> Clif >> >> >> >> >>> If I remember correctly, douglas fir is 23% heavier than spruce, so that's worthless weight... >>> >>> With any light-weight, low-power aircraft, any increase in empty weight is significant. Why add worthless weight just to save a few bucks or time during building? You'll be lugging that dead weight around every time you go flying. >>> Wayne Bressler >> >> >> >> >> > > -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:27:01 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce vs. ????? I doubt they give you a choice, but you can ask. The wood I received was very nice, tight, straight grain. Pay attention to how you orient the grain as you make your pieces for the various parts. Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:48:03 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rib - about to cut wood - spar perpendicular chord line? From: "MaximumBob" My first post - got "ruined" at Brodhead when Dale McCleskey gave me a ride in his Piet. Never underestimate the [positive] impact of a small act of kindness! My Sonex project (scratch build #1465) is now wondering why wood and epoxy are showing up in the shop. Not abandoning the Sonex, just figured that a little variety might get me through builders' block. Just starting on the Pientenpol ribs and would like some advice regarding whether to tilt the spars 1.5 degrees forward or build them perpendicular to the chord line. I purchased Bill Rewey's 612 Riblett plott. I replotted using the original Riblett offsets (incidentally the computer plot was identical to Bill's hand drawn layout). When I went to lay out the spars and verticals I noticed that Bill's were canted 1.5 degrees forward. (see attached picture - i.e. the spars are not perpendicular to the chord line, instead they form an 88.5 degree angle to the chord line). Reading through the archives I've learned that the angle of incidence of the wing is supposed to be 2 degrees and that it is common to make the rear cabanes 1" shorter to achieve the 2 degree angle of incidence. Drawing on this logic, if I build the wing as per Bill's drawing, I'd make the rear cabanes 0.25" shorter to achieve the 2 degree angle of incidence (i.e. if 2 degrees requires a 1" shorter rear cabane, then if the wing had 1.5 degrees built in, then only 25% or 0.25" adjustment to the rear cabane is necessary. So the question: should I build the rib so the spars are: (a) perpendicular to the chord line, (b) 88.5 degrees to the chord line, or (c) 88.0 degrees to the chord line? Here's the archive research if anyone is interested: Googled (site:forums.matronics.com pietenpol "chord line") which returned the following link: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=59897&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start I'm about to start cutting wood so any advice would be appreciated. Thanks, Bob Jacoby Jacksonville, FL Brodhead 2011 Working on Ribs Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350539#350539 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/rib_question_111.jpg ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:56:42 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wooden Lift Struts From: "kevinpurtee" What I hear you saying, Clif, is that we should be building wing struts out of rebar reinforced kevlar..... do not archive -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350540#350540 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:01:39 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: flying my 95 year old uncle around in the Piet... Thanks Brett! It was just one of those experiences that I had to pass along. Lorin Sent from my Samsung Captivate(tm) on AT&T Brett Phillips wrote: That's a first rate story Lorin! It brought a smile to my face after a long ugly day at work. I'm looking forward to similar experiences some day. I'm a real fan of your uncle's generation, those folks deserve all the respect we can muster. Brett Phillips Strasburg, VA On Wed, 24 Aug 2011 21:05:05 -0400, ldmill wrote: > > Cherished Memories. Yes - I did it. I stuffed my 95 year old great uncle > into a plane designed 80+ years ago that many 30 year olds have trouble > getting into... ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:01:48 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: flying my 95 year old uncle around in the Piet... From: "kevinpurtee" Spectacular, Lorin. Thanks for sharing. Did you charge him the $5? Sorry we didn't get to talk more at Brodhead. I may not make it in '12 but let's try to fly formation in '13. do not archive -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350541#350541 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:05:11 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Flight video From: "kevinpurtee" The challenge with giving a ride to Mark is he is a tall mountain of a man (and handsome, too!). I was afraid he'd knock the fuel fitting off the bottom of the wing tank with his head - not good for any of us. Billy's sized a little more practically for a plans-built Piet front seat. You'll be flying your own soon enough, Mark. You got Theresa varnishing and that means progress. do not archive -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350542#350542 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:22:31 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wooden Lift Struts From: "K5YAC" Thats what I heard him say too. kevinpurtee wrote: > What I hear you saying, Clif, is that we should be building wing struts out of rebar reinforced kevlar..... > > do not archive -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350552#350552 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:57:11 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: flying my 95 year old uncle around in the Piet... From: Ken Bickers Lorin, Very nice story. I hope your Uncle Glenn is forthcoming with lots of his recollections for you and your kids. Those will be recollections that will live long in their memories. My best, Ken On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 7:59 AM, wrote: > > Thanks Brett! It was just one of those experiences that I had to pass along. > Lorin > > Sent from my Samsung Captivate(tm) on AT&T > > Brett Phillips wrote: > > > That's a first rate story Lorin! It brought a smile to my face after a > long ugly day at work. I'm looking forward to similar experiences some > day. I'm a real fan of your uncle's generation, those folks deserve all > the respect we can muster. > > Brett Phillips > Strasburg, VA > > On Wed, 24 Aug 2011 21:05:05 -0400, ldmill > wrote: > >> >> Cherished Memories. Yes - I did it. I stuffed my 95 year old great uncle >> into a plane designed 80+ years ago that many 30 year olds have trouble >> getting into... > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:53:16 AM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: flying my 95 year old uncle around in the Piet... 20 Piets in formation at Brodhead... That'd be fun! On 08/25/2011 08:59 AM, kevinpurtee wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "kevinpurtee" > > Spectacular, Lorin. Thanks for sharing. > > Did you charge him the $5? > > Sorry we didn't get to talk more at Brodhead. I may not make it in '12 but let's try to fly formation in '13. > > do not archive > > -------- > Kevin"Axel" Purtee > NX899KP > Austin/Georgetown, TX > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350541#350541 > > -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:26:45 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rib - about to cut wood - spar perpendicular to chord line? From: "Mild Bill" >From a structural strength perspective these small changes in the spar orientation are not critical. It's more important to make the front and rear cabane struts equal length so you can easily adjust the wing fore and aft location. You can use the Search facility to search the Pietenpol-List forum for "Riblett incidence" (DON'T include the double quotation marks but DO select the "Search for all terms" radio button) and you'll get a fairly relevant list of threads to read. At first glance there is a lot of confusing information regarding how to set the incidence for a Riblett 612. I don't have time to sort it all out and give an opinion at this time, but it appears at least possible that the angle of incidence relative to the upper longerons will come out OK provided that the spars rest on the rib bottom capstrips: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311826#311826 -------- Bill Frank Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350576#350576 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:12:57 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rib - about to cut wood - spar perpendicular to chord line? From: "MaximumBob" Unrelated, but when I re-read the opening sentences from my post this morning, they didn't make much sense! Would have been better stated as: This is my first post. I'm in the midst of scratch building a Sonex, but I got "ruined" at Brodhead. Dale McCleskey gave me a ride in his Piet and now I'm embarking on a Piet project. Never underestimate the [positive] impact of a small act of kindness! Hopefully that opening makes a little more sense! Related to the Rib - if anyone has a full size layout handy, just check the angle between the chord line and the spar and let me know if it is a right angle or a slightly acute (i.e. 88.0 degrees or 88.5 degrees) tilted toward the front of the wing. My guess is that the full-size original pientenpol layout will not be a right angle. Thanks Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350589#350589 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:24:30 PM PST US From: "Amsafetyc@gmail.com" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sharing the Wealth Very very very neat story doc! Good job. Smile son! John Do not archive Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless -----Original message----- From: Gboothe5 Sent: Thu, Aug 25, 2011 02:15:55 GMT+00:00 Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sharing the Wealth Lucky girl.lucky Dad. Do not archive From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hofmann Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 2:28 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sharing the Wealth Saturday was a good day for 502Rocket. I got to share the joy with Amy Gesch. Amy is 20 and completely bitten by the aviation bug. She is a Cub junkie and interned at Dakota Cub this Summer. I have known her since she started hanging around HXF in 2008. Saturday, Hartford was the sight of the pig roast around the birthday of Steve Krog's assistant Dana. Unbeknownst to us she and her significant other Paul, decided to tie the knot at lunch. Nobody knew ahead of time. It was very cool. Their little farmette is adjacent to the airport so a bunch of us went back, grabbed our planes and headed over for an impromptu flour bomb drop. I had bombardier Rachel with me and we made some "daring low level passes" while she aimed for the cone in the back yard. I think she hit a goat, a small boy and the side of the house. If you were to stay safe, you needed to stand where the cone was. After the carpet bombing, we headed back over to the house and there was Amy. I had not seen her all year so we caught up and I found out she was leaving for school the next day. I said if she wanted to fly the Piet then we would have to go back now. She said okay and off we went. I put her in the front ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:14:13 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wooden Lift Struts Whoa! Now wait a minute! :-) Sheesh! Where did THAT come from?? Rebar? Kevlar? Are you sure you're not cross-eyed there boy? :-) On the other hand, purely thinking of safety mind you, if the whole thing was rebar covered in kevlar, there would be no need for insurance. Right? Clif Don't archive this one either Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wooden Lift Struts > > > What I hear you saying, Clif, is that we should be building wing struts > out of rebar reinforced kevlar..... > > do not archive > > -------- > Kevin "Axel" Purtee > NX899KP > Austin/Georgetown, TX > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350540#350540 > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:21:13 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Keri-Ann's plans From: "j_dunavin" has anyone modified their piet to these plans? http://sites.google.com/site/pietenpolplanpackages/pietenpol-plan-packages/suppemental-plan-packages I'm interested in the gapless three piece wing, and the gapless ailerons. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350601#350601 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:01:54 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: Pietenpol-List: FW: Cabanes (Spruce vs. ?????) Mark, Jim, (Cliff), and anyone else interested in wood struts, Today, I raced home from SLC, smelling of alcohol from the beer that squirted out of my nose because a remark Gene Rambo made in a private email while I was waiting for a plane; but focused on the need of several people to see the wisdom of Clif Dawson in an email lodged in my personal computer. Here is the email from Clif, sent to me a couple years ago. I was admiring his wood cabanes, and asked him some direct questions.and got this thoughtful reply: Gary _____ From: Clif Dawson [mailto:CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca] Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 12:01 AM Subject: Re: Cabanes Hi Gary, That thing is really coming along. Your getting close to the 90% done-50% to go stage. Stuff gets done in this stage but it's not as noticable as some big thing--like a fuselage! The surfaces that the fittings cover is flat and on the bottom ones there is a filler glued to the strut to make up the distance between the fuselage brackets. Essentially I rounded the front and rear of the strut with the blank square then shaped them to get that oldtime profile. Then rounded in the narrowed areas near the ends. Since there's two bolts at each end I made up a flat bracket of 0.063 steel to connect them on each side of the strut. I can't seem to figure out how to get to a specific message number in the list search. I finally found the one where I laid out the strength characteristics I used for my calculations. In this case it was for the outer wing struts but the same process is good for the cabanes and they don't have much force on them. I'm going to have to do up all these calculations and KEEP them somewhere! They always disappear after I satisfy myself all is OK. Here it is; "Spruce has a tensile strength of 6700 lb/square inch. For the sake of argument lets say a strut is 1" X 3 1/2". With streamlining the area should be 2/3 of the square area, or 2.3 square inch. There are four struts or 5.2 square inches. Thats 34840 lbs( yes I know ththe front ones take the majority of the load) .Dividing on the assuption of equal load on a 1200 lb AC we get 29 g! How much less if properly calculated? 25 g? 20 g? Is this adequate? There's a bolt at each end. The strength here is based on how much force required to pull a plug of wood out by the bolt. That plug has two faces, the square area of which is the width of the strut times the distance from the end to the bolt. If the strut is 1" thick and the bolt is 1" from the end then you have two faces each 1" square or two square inches. The "shear parallel to the grain" is 1120 lb per square inch. So we have a strength here of 2240 lb. Four struts so thats a total of 8960 lb. That's still over 7 g. If we added another such bolt we have 14 g capacity. Taking into account the higher front strut stress I'd bet we still have at least 10 g to play with. And this is for plain, solid spruce, no plywood, no laminated straps or embedded tubing or anything else to complicate matters. You can add a little more strength by using Western Hemlock or Doug Fir but not much. " Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Boothe Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 6:15 AM Subject: Cabanes Hi Cliff, My cabanes are similar to yours. Considering the taper at the ends, I am curious to see just how you handled the fittings, and if you had any ideas on the subject. In retrospect, it would have been easier to leave the ends a little more 'block' shaped, but that would detract from the general appearance. Here's a picture of my progress to date. Any comments about the fittings would be most appreciated, and some close-ups. Hope to see you at Brodhead. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) _____ Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 17:57:00 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:15:35 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wooden Lift Struts From: "Billy McCaskill" I think if a Piet were built with rebar reinforced kevlar, it wouldn't be an AIRplane any more, but a a groundplane. It'd be so heavy that it wouldn't fly. And it would take FOREVER to taxi to Brodhead if you live more than 5-10 miles out... But at the same time, Jack Phillips might be more inclined to use a Corvair if Piets never got airborne... crankshaft failures would only be mere inconveniences at 0' AGL. Back on topic, I plan to use wood cabanes and lift struts on mine, when I get to that stage (which is going to be a LONG time). DO NOT archive! -------- Billy McCaskill Urbana, IL tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350605#350605 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.