Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:42 AM - Re: Rib - about to cut wood - spar perpendicular to chord line? (Don Emch)
2. 05:02 AM - Re: Keri-Ann's plans (Greg Cardinal)
3. 07:09 AM - Re: Cabanes (Spruce vs. ?????) (K5YAC)
4. 07:11 AM - Re: Wooden Lift Struts (K5YAC)
5. 07:28 AM - Re: Re: Cabanes (Spruce vs. ?????) (Gboothe5)
6. 08:30 AM - Re: Rib - about to cut wood - spar perpendicular to chord line? (Mild Bill)
7. 09:09 AM - Re: Rib - about to cut wood - spar perpendicular to chord line? (Mild Bill)
8. 09:13 AM - Re: Rib - about to cut wood - spar perpendicular to chord line? (Don Emch)
9. 11:14 AM - Re: Rib - about to cut wood - spar perpendicular to chord line? (Mild Bill)
10. 02:32 PM - Re: Re: Rib - about to cut wood - spar perpendicular to chord line? (mark lee)
11. 03:20 PM - Tail Brace Wire Size (John Kuhfahl)
12. 03:58 PM - Re: Tail Brace Wire Size (Jerry Dotson)
13. 04:08 PM - Re: Re: Tail Brace Wire Size (Gboothe5)
14. 04:24 PM - Re: Re: Rib - about to cut wood - spar perpendicular to chord line? (Dan Yocum)
15. 06:38 PM - Re: Tail Brace Wire Size (Ben Charvet)
16. 07:43 PM - Re: Rib - about to cut wood - spar perpendicular to chord line? (Pieti Lowell)
17. 08:09 PM - first flight (Donald Lane)
18. 08:31 PM - Re: first flight (Billy McCaskill)
19. 09:56 PM - Re: Re: first flight (Gboothe5)
20. 10:40 PM - Re: first flight (Greg Cardinal)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Rib - about to cut wood - spar perpendicular to chord |
line?
In response to Mild Bill, it is important that the front and rear cabanes are NOT
the same length. If they are the airplane will seem to fly nose high all the
time. MaximumBob, the best thing you can do at this point in the project is
to buy a set of plans from the Pietenpol family and start building the airframe
according to them. Trust me, you won't be disappointed.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350613#350613
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| Subject: | Re: Keri-Ann's plans |
NX18235 was built using Keri-Ann's plans for the gapless 3-piece wing and
the gapless ailerons.
They are good plans and I am happy with the mods.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin@hotmail.com>
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 12:18 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Keri-Ann's plans
>
> has anyone modified their piet to these plans?
> http://sites.google.com/site/pietenpolplanpackages/pietenpol-plan-packages/suppemental-plan-packages
> I'm interested in the gapless three piece wing, and the gapless ailerons.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350601#350601
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Cabanes (Spruce vs. ?????) |
Thanks for posting this Gary. I commented to Jim a few days ago that good or bad,
the wooden lift strut thread should keep us entertained for the rest of the
week. Well, it has certainly done that, and the discussion has also convinced
me that we are on the right track.
I had not really considered wooden lift struts until just a few days ago when Jim
mentioned the idea. Initially I thought it sounded great as I started to think
about how certain woods would LOOK. A few days into that and the thought
struck me... which woods will WORK? Jim had the right idea all along based upon
what he has seen and learned over the years, but the thought being new to
me required me to ask a few questions. The conversation with everyone here and
offline has shed a lot of light on the subject.
Thanks all!
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350629#350629
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| Subject: | Re: Wooden Lift Struts |
Anyone searching for information on wooden lift struts should also read this thread... http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350629#350629
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350630#350630
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| Subject: | Re: Cabanes (Spruce vs. ?????) |
You are welcome! NOTE: this is before Clif promoted re-bar and Kevlar...:-)
(you see how rumors get started?)
Gary
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of K5YAC
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 7:07 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabanes (Spruce vs. ?????)
Thanks for posting this Gary. I commented to Jim a few days ago that good
or bad, the wooden lift strut thread should keep us entertained for the rest
of the week. Well, it has certainly done that, and the discussion has also
convinced me that we are on the right track.
I had not really considered wooden lift struts until just a few days ago
when Jim mentioned the idea. Initially I thought it sounded great as I
started to think about how certain woods would LOOK. A few days into that
and the thought struck me... which woods will WORK? Jim had the right idea
all along based upon what he has seen and learned over the years, but the
thought being new to me required me to ask a few questions. The
conversation with everyone here and offline has shed a lot of light on the
subject.
Thanks all!
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350629#350629
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Rib - about to cut wood - spar perpendicular to chord |
line?
In the post I linked to in my first reply, yocum137 stated that the Riblett 612
will be set to the correct incidence if one sets the spars down on the lower
capstrips and keeps the cabane struts equal length.
If that is true, then the airplane won't seem to fly nose high.
If that is false, then exactly what disasters will befall the builder who obtains
the desired incidence by extending the attachment fittings on the front spar
by an inch or two?
--------
Bill Frank
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350637#350637
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Rib - about to cut wood - spar perpendicular to chord |
line?
MaximumBob -
I don't know yet one way or the other, but perhaps Rewey expected the incidence
angle to be 1.5 deg and made the spar faces vertical relative to the horizon
at that incidence by setting the spar faces at 88.5 deg relative to the chord
line. Somebody expecting the correct incidence to be 2 deg would set the spar
faces at 88 deg.
Setting the spar faces at 90 deg relative to the horizon in level flight might
be fairly common, but it's not required from considerations of structural strength.
If you want 90 deg relative to the chord line, knock yourself out.
--------
Bill Frank
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350639#350639
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Rib - about to cut wood - spar perpendicular to chord |
line?
Sorry about that Mild Bill. I didn't realize there is some built in incidence
in that wing rib. I don't know much about that rib. The two things I do know
is that Mr. Riblett's claims about the Pietenpol airfoil are not at all true
and that there is exactly one airplane flying with that airfoil and I believe
Mr. Frank is planning to make some changes in the incidence department. Just
keep in mind that after all the hard work of building it you may have to go back
and rework some things to get it to fly right. For a lot of folks that is
fun and they like to do that sort of thing, which is great!
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350640#350640
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Rib - about to cut wood - spar perpendicular to chord |
line?
Don -
That's all right. I'm not absolutely sure that yocum137 was correct, which is why
I asked if there would be any problems with extending the front attach fittings.
I suspect not, but if there's a potential problem with structural strength
it will be far better to discuss it and find out now rather than find out in
flight later. (Perhaps someone can point to some threads where it's already
been hashed out.)
Hey, I'm Mr. Frank! :D
If I remember correctly, Lowell Frank [username Pieti Lowell on this forum] cllipped
the wing by 2' but I'm not sure if that's off each wing tip or only off
the total span. Either way, the loss in lift due to loss in surface area should
theoretically be compensated for by increasing the angle of attack for a given
flight condition. Hopefully Pieti will provide us a summary of how the angle
of incidence was handled originally and what changes are contemplated.
--------
Bill Frank
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350651#350651
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Rib - about to cut wood - spar perpendicular |
to chord line?
Bill I'm very interested in how well the Riblett 612 works for you. Are you
planning on a trailing edge cut out on the center section? Are there any
more things that you are doing like Keri-Ann's no gap ailerons or no gap
three piece wing? I'm wondering if the piet airfoil might have some bad
stall characteristics if it was used on a sail plane[amusing thought for
entertainment purpose only]. I got the impression that sailplane airfoils is
his main focus. Anyway I hope that you do see some meaningful performance
gains. I'll be watching your posts with much interest.
Do not post.
On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 9:10 AM, Don Emch <EmchAir@aol.com> wrote:
>
> Sorry about that Mild Bill. I didn't realize there is some built in
> incidence in that wing rib. I don't know much about that rib. The two
> things I do know is that Mr. Riblett's claims about the Pietenpol airfoil
> are not at all true and that there is exactly one airplane flying with that
> airfoil and I believe Mr. Frank is planning to make some changes in the
> incidence department. Just keep in mind that after all the hard work of
> building it you may have to go back and rework some things to get it to fly
> right. For a lot of folks that is fun and they like to do that sort of
> thing, which is great!
>
> Don Emch
> NX899DE
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350640#350640
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Tail Brace Wire Size |
What size tail brace wires are you using? I've seen 1/16th an 1/8th inch.
Thanks John
--
John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret),
President, KUHLCOUPER LLC
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Tail Brace Wire Size |
I used 1/8" mainly because I had an ample supply of it.
I think most use 3/32". I used 1/8" throughout the airplane. Mine will probably
cruise 73 rather than 75!
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350680#350680
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Tail Brace Wire Size |
I used 3/32"...I'm shooting for a fast Piet....
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Dotson
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 3:56 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail Brace Wire Size
<jdotson@centurylink.net>
I used 1/8" mainly because I had an ample supply of it.
I think most use 3/32". I used 1/8" throughout the airplane. Mine will
probably cruise 73 rather than 75!
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350680#350680
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Rib - about to cut wood - spar perpendicular |
to chord line?
On 08/26/2011 01:12 PM, Mild Bill wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mild Bill"<whfrank@charter.net>
>
> Don -
>
> That's all right. I'm not absolutely sure that yocum137 was correct, which is
why I asked if there would be any problems with extending the front attach fittings.
I suspect not, but if there's a potential problem with structural strength
it will be far better to discuss it and find out now rather than find out
in flight later. (Perhaps someone can point to some threads where it's already
been hashed out.)
>
Hey, I only got a minor in Math (but I still can't do simple arithmetic).
Anyway, look at the Riblett plan. If you set the spars on top of the
bottom cap strip, and measure down from the chord line, you will see
that the front spar is lower than the rear spar by 1" 3/32. There's 29"
between the front and rear spars center on center. Run the math. SOH:
sine theta = opposite / hypotenuse. Angle theta comes out to be 1
degree, which is what Lowell suggests.
So, that's why you should make the cabanes the same length - the 1
degree AoI is already built in to the Riblett GA30-612 rib.
Cheers!
Dan
> Hey, I'm Mr. Frank! :D
>
> If I remember correctly, Lowell Frank [username Pieti Lowell on this forum] cllipped
the wing by 2' but I'm not sure if that's off each wing tip or only off
the total span. Either way, the loss in lift due to loss in surface area should
theoretically be compensated for by increasing the angle of attack for a given
flight condition. Hopefully Pieti will provide us a summary of how the angle
of incidence was handled originally and what changes are contemplated.
>
> --------
> Bill Frank
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350651#350651
>
>
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Tail Brace Wire Size |
I used 3/32, I think that is what the plans call for. Probably saved a
small insignificant amount of weight that I compensated for by adding a
Maule tailwheel....
Ben
On 8/26/2011 6:18 PM, John Kuhfahl wrote:
> What size tail brace wires are you using? I've seen 1/16th an 1/8th
> inch. Thanks John
>
> --
> John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret),
> President, KUHLCOUPER LLC
> *
>
>
> *
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Rib - about to cut wood - spar perpendicular to chord |
line?
My 612 was clipped 24"total and the center section is a lifting 24"area, with a
cross-flow radiator lowered allowing 10" between the bottom of the wing and the
top of the radiator. Those of you using engines other than a Ford or water
cooling power plants will have additional area working to your advantage.
I first left the cabanes as Pietenpol had on the drawings, front 1" longer than
the rear, But Riblett suggested 1 Degree of incident, not being so bright I am
changing the rear cabanes in 1/2"adjustments upward to get the flight characteristics
that suite me with the clipped wing,
With the standard length wing you will not go wrong with Mr Ribletts suggestion.
Even though he said that the Piet's wing had an abrupt stall.
He did say that the Piet wing had a high speed problem. Try going 110 MPH with
a 145 Werner, it is not easy without a flutter of fabric just ahead of the trailing
edge. The 612 high speed flutter is not at the same speed, could be a much
higher speed, of which I won't be looking for. Over 115 MPH'
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350702#350702
Message 17
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Pietenpol N110DL made her first flight yesterday 8/25/11, at Bayboro NC,
piloted by Barry Triplett. He found the airplane to handle well and
said it flies like a Cub. One quick flight this morning and then we had
to take off the wings again and move her to safer ground before Irene
gets here. Got everything secured just before the rain started. Don
Lane
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: first flight |
Congrats on your maiden flight, Don! I'm sure that you can't wait for the storm
to blow over so that you can bolt the wings back on and put lots of enjoyable
hours on her!
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350707#350707
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: first flight |
Congratulations, Don! She looks like a beauty. Best wishes in the coming
days...
Gary
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Billy
McCaskill
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 8:29 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: first flight
Congrats on your maiden flight, Don! I'm sure that you can't wait for the
storm to blow over so that you can bolt the wings back on and put lots of
enjoyable hours on her!
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350707#350707
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: first flight |
Fantastic! No brakes and a tailskid, classic color scheme, a streamer of
oil running down the cowling and look at the grass hanging on the
landing gear bracing cables.
I think Bernard would smile approvingly.
Very lovely, congratulations!
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: Donald Lane
To: pietenpol
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 10:07 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: first flight
Pietenpol N110DL made her first flight yesterday 8/25/11, at Bayboro
NC, piloted by Barry Triplett. He found the airplane to handle well and
said it flies like a Cub. One quick flight this morning and then we had
to take off the wings again and move her to safer ground before Irene
gets here. Got everything secured just before the rain started. Don
Lane
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