Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:05 AM - Re: push-pull set-up (KM Heide CPO/FAAOP)
2. 12:43 AM - Re: push-pull set-up (Gerry Holland)
3. 02:12 AM - Re: metal fittings (aerocarjake)
4. 02:27 AM - Re: Re: metal fittings (George Abernathy)
5. 02:46 AM - Re: Can anyone identify this plane? (Ken_P)
6. 04:42 AM - Re: push-pull set-up (Jack Phillips)
7. 05:05 AM - Re: Plan to get that blade out of the blank ! (helspersew@aol.com)
8. 05:11 AM - RE; metal fittings (helspersew@aol.com)
9. 05:29 AM - Re: push-pull set-up (Jerry Dotson)
10. 06:42 AM - Re: Re: Push pull set-up (Doug Dever)
11. 07:38 AM - Re: Plan to get that blade out of the blank ! (dwilson)
12. 08:31 AM - Re: push-pull set-up (Ryan Mueller)
13. 08:38 AM - Re: RE; metal fittings (Ryan Mueller)
14. 08:42 AM - Free airfoil plotting software...: Re: Plan to get that blade out of the blank ! (Jim Markle)
15. 08:48 AM - Re: Re: Push pull set-up (Jim Markle)
16. 09:23 AM - Re: Plan to get that blade out of the blank ! (Gary Boothe)
17. 02:40 PM - Re: RE; metal fittings (George Abernathy)
18. 05:44 PM - Re: Parts (Woodflier@aol.com)
19. 08:15 PM - Re: Push pull set-up (Billy McCaskill)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: push-pull set-up |
I am building the plane to plans. I decided to have external bell cranks. R
egardless of the placement it is still a bell crank with all components as
the plans dictate. The trim is for my weight as I figured I would need some
stick pressure due to my weight!
Yes... I used some wood on the bottom fuse for an inspection hole. Weather
fabric or wood, still an inspection cover.
Now matter what anyone wishes to mouth out, -a bell crank is a bell crank
as long as it has all the components to be a bell crank!!!! For those who
wish to be purists, step forward and show me your "to plans" airplane. A st
ep, door, storage compartment makes your plane anything but a pietenpol!
-
SO...comment away as frankly I don't give a shit what others think. I was o
nly asking the list for "input" not criticism! Hence why I shun when asking
this list anything publicly. So before you fly away into the sunset and th
ink this list is constructive, remember this. I have received feedback on m
y original question from three people! The rest of you....offer nothing but
failed criticism because your glasses see it in one dimension!-
Touche'
-KMHeide
--- On Sat, 9/10/11, Lawrence Williams <lnawms@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Lawrence Williams <lnawms@yahoo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: push-pull set-up
Admittedly I haven't seen any pictures of your set-up but you speak of exte
rnal bellcranks and some sort of elevator trim system yet keep insisting th
at it's "to the plans". Pray tell what plans you are using or what airplane
you are building.
Larry W.
=====================0A=0A
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: push-pull set-up |
Surely Mr Heide has a right to complete an experimental Aircraft
designed in 1930 as close to the design as he can but with adaption in
areas where he sees fit and suit his needs, certainly made in the
'spirit' of the plans. The only proviso that should get comment is a
blatant error leading to safety issues.
How tedious a Piet Fly-in would be if everyone had the same aircraft,
same colour, same everything just because the plans said so. =46rom what
I read and observe Bernard Pietenpol would have showed nothing but
encouragement for a subtle adaption of his original design and would
have given advice in a positive, glass half full way.
Ironically today is a day when we remember a certain group of people
taking heinous actions just to assert their point of view on the
pretence of Jehad. What enthusiasm will this guy have to join in a
fly-in now. I would hasten to think, very little!
Enjoy differences! It's called evolution!
Regards to all....even those who are a bit different.
Gerry
Nobody grows old merely by living a number of years. We grow old by
deserting our ideals.
Years may wrinkle the skin, but to give up enthusiasm wrinkles the soul.
Samuel Ullman
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: metal fittings |
Well it's two in the morning here in Seattle and I appreciate seeing this video....
I look forward to the parts and continued Pietenpol progress on this side
of the pond..... thanks George.....
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=351947#351947
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: metal fittings |
Hey Jake,=0A=0AWhat are you doing up past bed time. Are you "sleepless in s
eattle?". =0A=0A=0ASorry just could not resist it. =0A=0A=0AIt has decided
to rain here after being cold. I have been packing up to go and rebuild a s
pa. Got my lifting derrick that I can carry into the house and set up. Got
the remote controlled winches spreader bars. Just remembered better put the
extra battery drill in. I have to raise it from a hole in a slab. =0A=0A
=0ASo I am still packing. =0A=0A=0ASonja did a pretty good job with the cam
era. =0A=0A=0ANext I have to use the tig welder. I am going to practice a l
ittle.=0AI tried one of the high dollar units at oskosh. It seemed easier t
han gas welding. =0A=0A=0AG=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom
: aerocarjake <flight.jake@gmail.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0A
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 7:08 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: met
t.jake@gmail.com>=0A=0AWell it's two in the morning here in Seattle and I a
ppreciate seeing this video.... I look forward to the parts and continued P
ietenpol progress on this side of the pond..... thanks George.....=0A=0A---
-----=0AJake Schultz - curator,=0ANewport Way Air Museum- (OK, it's just
my home)=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matr
=============
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Can anyone identify this plane? |
Its a monoplane.
Sorry - Couldn't resist. Please do not archive.
Ken Potts
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=351949#351949
Message 6
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Subject: | push-pull set-up |
Gerry,
Certainly Ken has the right to do anything he wishes with his Pietenpol. I
think the only reason he was getting some flak was his insistence in calling
it "to the plans" while enumerating a farily large number of substantial
changes from those plans.
I personaly don't know of ANY Pietenpol that was built exactly to the plans,
with the possible exception of Gene Rambo's "Purist Special". I've seen
that plane under construction and have not seen any changes at all from what
the plans show.
So build away, Ken. Just don't keep calling it "to the plans". Call it
"close to the plans". Or just call it a Pietenpol.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gerry
Holland
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 3:41 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: push-pull set-up
Surely Mr Heide has a right to complete an experimental Aircraft designed in
1930 as close to the design as he can but with adaption in areas where he
sees fit and suit his needs, certainly made in the 'spirit' of the plans.
The only proviso that should get comment is a blatant error leading to
safety issues.
How tedious a Piet Fly-in would be if everyone had the same aircraft, same
colour, same everything just because the plans said so. From what I read and
observe Bernard Pietenpol would have showed nothing but encouragement for a
subtle adaption of his original design and would have given advice in a
positive, glass half full way.
Ironically today is a day when we remember a certain group of people taking
heinous actions just to assert their point of view on the pretence of Jehad.
What enthusiasm will this guy have to join in a fly-in now. I would hasten
to think, very little!
Enjoy differences! It's called evolution!
Regards to all....even those who are a bit different.
Gerry
Nobody grows old merely by living a number of years. We grow old by
deserting our ideals.
Years may wrinkle the skin, but to give up enthusiasm wrinkles the soul.
Samuel Ullman
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Plan to get that blade out of the blank ! |
Jim,
You could ask him. moretesantiago@yahoo.com.ar,
According to my notes from the master Jerry Thornhill (prop carving demonst
rator at OSH) he says that the exact shape of the blades is not that all i
mportant, but again, according to my notes, he said that the thickest part
of the blade should be about 40% back from the leading edge. If you were to
watch Jerry carve a prop with the chainsaw method, he uses no airfoil temp
lates. It is just by eye that he carves the first blade, and then uses a fl
at piece of lead to match one blade station with the opposing side. So appa
rently he is right, because he has had much success with the performance of
his works.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
Sent: Sat, Sep 10, 2011 8:58 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Plan to get that blade out of the blank !
>
Any idea HOW Santiago (or anyone) created the templates for each station?
oftware?
-----Original Message-----
From: helspersew@aol.com
Sent: Sep 10, 2011 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Plan to get that blade out of the blank !
i Dan,
t sounds like that would work. It also sounds like you bettta be beeerrrrry
areful when you drill those holes so they don't get too deep.
f it were me, I would do as our good amigo from south of the border, Santia
go
rom Argentina did. He made templates from cardboard of the airfoils at each
tation, and split them at the leading edge and trailing edge lines. Then, w
hen
ou started getting close (with the chainsaw) you could keep trying the
emplates at each blade station. Shouldn't be too hard. .....but that's me.
am sure you will be successful in whatever method you choose.
ny special reason you chose the Clark Y?
an Helsper
uryear, TN.
-----Original Message-----
From: dwilson <marwilson@charter.net>
Sent: Sat, Sep 10, 2011 1:01 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plan to get that blade out of the blank !
Visualizing the front view of the prop, I get it. Drawing the Leading and
railing edges on the side of the blank, got that too ! What the airfoil at
ach station looks like if you were looking down the blade from the tip to t
he
ub, well that was more difficult for me to see. Here is what I came up wit
h
nd my plan to remove just the right amount of material to end up with a
ropeller. I've mounted a digital caliper to the drill press so I can drill
a
eries of 1/16 inch holes along a line on the face of the prop blank at eac
h
tation. The digital caliper should allow me to control the depth of the ho
le
o with-in about 1/8 of and inch from the actual airfoil surface. The wood
emaining can be removed with the angle grinder or orbital sander. Any thou
ghts
or suggestions.
I'm going to try the lancelot blade from King Arthur Tools mounted in a 4 1
/2
nch angle grinder.
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=351908#351908
ttachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/prop_plan_view_133.pdf
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
://forums.matronics.com
lank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
Message 8
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Subject: | RE; metal fittings |
Got the remote controlled winches spreader bars. Just remembered better put
the extra battery drill in. I have to raise it from a hole in a slab.
Don't forget both the wenches.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
sorry, and do not archive
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: push-pull set-up |
What Gerry said. I agree with Ken too. My Piet is certainly not to plans. Mine
has some dihedral in the wing, an O-235 Lycoming, a handicap step, covering with
dacron not Grade A, brakes, a tailwheel, a battery, elevator trim and the list
goes on.
Now that said I love our little group and would like to see harmony among
us. I come to this forum several times a day just to see what some proud
Pietenpol builder/flier has posted. Maybe a picture of their flying airplane or
just simply a picture of#1 rib, maybe a stack of ribs. I take great pleasure
looking at all the pictures whether they are building to plans or not! I will
not sit in judgment of anyone.
God please bless America........... we need it
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
now covering
21" wheels
Lycoming O-235
Jay Anderson CloudCars prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=351954#351954
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Push pull set-up |
If I remember right=2C didn't Bernard try a Ford Flathead V8?
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
Do not archive
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Push pull set-up
> From: billmz@cox.net
> Date: Sat=2C 10 Sep 2011 17:54:20 -0700
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
>
> If you use the 350 Chevy motor (hey=2C it's liquid cooled too!)=2C then y
ou probably will wind up with not having to move the wing back and you'll h
ave the cabanes vertical...
>
> do not archive
>
> --------
> Billy McCaskill
> Urbana=2C IL
> tail section almost done=2C starting on ribs soon
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=351931#351931
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 11
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|
Subject: | Re: Plan to get that blade out of the blank ! |
Here is an example I found that demonstrates how you can draw the Clark Y Airfoil
for any chord length. I made cardboard templates for each station, they are
easy to cut. I'm working on a set of templates that are made of .025 aluminum.
I,m just using the drill press as a guide to indicate to me how much wood
to remove at each station. I still have to hog out the wood with any method
you desire. I will use the aluminum templates to measure the airfoils at each
station.
Jerry had a drill bit with an adjustable cutter that he used to drill the center
hole in the propeller. Anyone know where to find one. It was not a counterbore.
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=351956#351956
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/clark_y_airfoil_175.pdf
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: push-pull set-up |
Ken,
You're building from the plans, but you're not building to the
plans=85..I'm not entirely sure why you feel the need to insist what you
are doing is "to the plans" and then subsequently describe the reasons
it's not being built to the plans. Confusing=85
The list is pretty constructive, and there is a tremendous amount of
knowledge out there that will peek it's head out when asked for.
Goofiness, jackassery, and the same old crazy-ass questions will
generate plenty of ire (i.e. how many golf balls will it take to allow
me to fly my rubber band powered Piet from my 26,000 ft airstrip, oh by
the way I weigh 350 lbs, I built it entirely out of terneplate, it's low
wing, and why won't you do the math and figure out why it won't fly!).
I'm not saying you fell into that category=85.I think just venting there
;-)
Anywho, it's your journey, it's your airplane=85..you can do whatever
you would like with it. As long as it turns out safe for you and your
passengers, and you enjoy it, excellent. Just don't keep calling it what
it ain't=85."to the plans". I'm sure it makes Bernard turn, and I can
only imagine it's giving Dan a little more grey ;-)
Ryan
do not archive
On Sep 11, 2011, at 2:03 AM, KM Heide CPO/FAAOP wrote:
> I am building the plane to plans. I decided to have external bell
cranks. Regardless of the placement it is still a bell crank with all
components as the plans dictate. The trim is for my weight as I figured
I would need some stick pressure due to my weight!
>
> Yes... I used some wood on the bottom fuse for an inspection hole.
Weather fabric or wood, still an inspection cover.
>
> Now matter what anyone wishes to mouth out, a bell crank is a bell
crank as long as it has all the components to be a bell crank!!!! For
those who wish to be purists, step forward and show me your "to plans"
airplane. A step, door, storage compartment makes your plane anything
but a pietenpol!
>
> SO...comment away as frankly I don't give a shit what others think. I
was only asking the list for "input" not criticism! Hence why I shun
when asking this list anything publicly. So before you fly away into the
sunset and think this list is constructive, remember this. I have
received feedback on my original question from three people! The rest of
you....offer nothing but failed criticism because your glasses see it in
one dimension!
>
> Touche'
>
> KMHeide
>
>
> --- On Sat, 9/10/11, Lawrence Williams <lnawms@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> From: Lawrence Williams <lnawms@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: push-pull set-up
> To: "Pietlist" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Date: Saturday, September 10, 2011, 4:11 PM
>
> Admittedly I haven't seen any pictures of your set-up but you speak of
external bellcranks and some sort of elevator trim system yet keep
insisting that it's "to the plans". Pray tell what plans you are using
or what airplane you are building.
>
> Larry W.
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigaet="_blank"
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.->
>
>
Message 13
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|
Subject: | Re: RE; metal fittings |
Just wanted to emphasize the critical nugget of wisdom in Dan's post:
"Don't forget both the wenches"
Carry on,
do not archive
On Sep 11, 2011, at 7:08 AM, helspersew@aol.com wrote:
> Got the remote controlled winches spreader bars. Just remembered
better put the extra battery drill in. I have to raise it from a hole in
a slab.
>
> Don't forget both the wenches.
>
> Dan Helsper
> Puryear, TN
>
> sorry, and do not archive
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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|
Subject: | Re: Free airfoil plotting software...: Re: Plan to get that |
blade out of the blank !
Thanks Dan.
And I just found a free (VERY basic) program that could be used to create airfoils/templates.
Comes with a few airfoils, including the Clark Y:
http://www.rc-soar.com/hardsoft/profilerev.htm
Jim in Pryor
-----Original Message-----
>From: dwilson <marwilson@charter.net>
>Sent: Sep 11, 2011 9:36 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plan to get that blade out of the blank !
>
>
>Here is an example I found that demonstrates how you can draw the Clark Y Airfoil
for any chord length. I made cardboard templates for each station, they are
easy to cut. I'm working on a set of templates that are made of .025 aluminum.
I,m just using the drill press as a guide to indicate to me how much wood
to remove at each station. I still have to hog out the wood with any method
you desire. I will use the aluminum templates to measure the airfoils at each
station.
>
>Jerry had a drill bit with an adjustable cutter that he used to drill the center
hole in the propeller. Anyone know where to find one. It was not a counterbore.
>
>Dan
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=351956#351956
>
>
>Attachments:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/clark_y_airfoil_175.pdf
>
>
Message 15
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|
Subject: | Re: Push pull set-up |
He did. Then immediately stated: "To each his own....but from this day forward
the only Pietenpol I will EVER recognize/endorse as a REAL Pietenpol will have
a 4 banger up front..."
I'm just sayin'....
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Dever
Sent: Sep 11, 2011 8:39 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Push pull set-up
If I remember right, didn't Bernard try a Ford Flathead V8?
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
Do not archive
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Push pull set-up
> From: billmz@cox.net
> Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2011 17:54:20 -0700
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
>
> If you use the 350 Chevy motor (hey, it's liquid cooled too!), then you probably
will wind up with not having to move the wing back and you'll have the cabanes
vertical...
>
> do not archive
>
> --------
> Billy McCaskill
> Urbana, IL
> tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=351931#351931
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>===========
>
>
>
Message 16
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|
Subject: | Plan to get that blade out of the blank ! |
Jim,
For shaping the airfoils at each station, I used Al Schubert's book, How I Make
Props, available at the EAA website. He has several different airfoils for other
engines.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle
Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2011 6:56 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Plan to get that blade out of the blank !
--> <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
Any idea HOW Santiago (or anyone) created the templates for each station? Software?
-----Original Message-----
From: helspersew@aol.com
Sent: Sep 10, 2011 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Plan to get that blade out of the blank !
Hi Dan,
It sounds like that would work. It also sounds like you bettta be beeerrrrry careful
when you drill those holes so they don't get too deep.
If it were me, I would do as our good amigo from south of the border, Santiago
from Argentina did. He made templates from cardboard of the airfoils at each station,
and split them at the leading edge and trailing edge lines. Then, when
you started getting close (with the chainsaw) you could keep trying the templates
at each blade station. Shouldn't be too hard. .....but that's me.
I am sure you will be successful in whatever method you choose.
Any special reason you chose the Clark Y?
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN.
-----Original Message-----
From: dwilson <marwilson@charter.net>
Sent: Sat, Sep 10, 2011 1:01 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plan to get that blade out of the blank !
Visualizing the front view of the prop, I get it. Drawing the Leading and Trailing
edges on the side of the blank, got that too ! What the airfoil at each
station looks like if you were looking down the blade from the tip to the hub,
well that was more difficult for me to see. Here is what I came up with and
my plan to remove just the right amount of material to end up with a propeller.
I've mounted a digital caliper to the drill press so I can drill a series of
1/16 inch holes along a line on the face of the prop blank at each station.
The digital caliper should allow me to control the depth of the hole to with-in
about 1/8 of and inch from the actual airfoil surface. The wood remaining
can be removed with the angle grinder or orbital sander. Any thoughts or suggestions.
I'm going to try the lancelot blade from King Arthur Tools mounted in a 4 1/2 inch
angle grinder.
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Message 17
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Subject: | Re: RE; metal fittings |
Unfortunately the winch wenches have refused to go for this one. =0A=0A=0A
=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.
com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, September 12, 2011
1:35 AM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: RE; metal fittings=0A=0A=0AJust want
ed to emphasize the critical nugget of wisdom in Dan's post:=0A=0A"Don't fo
rget both the wenches"=0A=0ACarry on,=0A=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0AOn Sep 11
, 2011, at 7:08 AM, helspersew@aol.com wrote:=0A=0AGot the remote controlle
d winches spreader bars. Just remembered better put the extra battery drill
in. I have to raise it from a hole in a slab. =0A>=0A>-=0A>Don't forget
both the wenches.=0A>-=0A>Dan Helsper=0A>Puryear, TN=0A>-=0A>sorry, and
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Message 18
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I'm with Dan and Jack. I did buy some of the metal fittings for the wings
early on in the project because I was intimidated by the metalwork but as I
got into the project, I realized that a big part of building a Piet is
learning a lot of new skills. Fortunately, we have this group to bounce things
off of, and to actually get hands-on help sometimes. And I share Jack's
feeling of loss when the Piet was finished, though I love flying it now that
it's done. So I'm looking at building a Wittman Buttercup. I figure it'll be
kinda like the Pietenpol project, but without this great group of people.
Matt Paxton
NX629ML
Message 19
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Subject: | Re: Push pull set-up |
... at least until 1965, when Bernard discovered the Corvair engine, "the smoothest
engine I've ever flown behind" I think were his words, or something to that
effect.
... just sayin'. :)
do not archive
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
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