---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 09/18/11: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:53 AM - Re: Re: Control horns (Clif Dawson) 2. 09:18 AM - Re: Mitsubishi engine run up with prop! (shad bell) 3. 09:26 AM - Polyurethane paint coverage estimate (shad bell) 4. 10:59 AM - Re: Re: Plan to get that blade out of the blank !2 (V Groah) 5. 11:07 AM - Re: Polyurethane paint coverage estimate (Doug Dever) 6. 11:31 AM - Re: Polyurethane paint coverage estimate (shad bell) 7. 01:47 PM - Re: Modified Seine Knot (dwilson) 8. 02:14 PM - Re: Re: Modified Seine Knot (jim_markle@mindspring.com) 9. 02:45 PM - Re: Modified Seine Knot2 (jorge lizarraga) 10. 05:45 PM - Re: Re: Modified Seine Knot (Jack) 11. 06:58 PM - Re: Polyurethane paint coverage estimate (Doug Dever) 12. 07:31 PM - Re: Re: Modified Seine Knot (Clif Dawson) 13. 07:56 PM - Re: Can anyone identify this plane? (PatrickW) 14. 08:20 PM - Re: Modified Seine Knot (dwilson) 15. 09:01 PM - Re: Re: Modified Seine Knot (Gary Boothe) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:53:34 AM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Control horns Re Kevins post about welding zinc chromated horns. You might want to read this; http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/healthguidelines/zincchromate/recognition.html Zinc oxide is used topicaly in skin creams of all sorts, but; http://www.sciencestuff.com/msds/C2997.html Clif You still need to be careful when working with zinc which is the coating used during the galvanizing process and does contain trace amounts of lead. The one you have to watch out for is welding stainless, the process liberates chrome which is toxic so you want to be really careful when arc welding stainless. By all means when in doubt consult the MSDS. John ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:18:11 AM PST US From: shad bell Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Mitsubishi engine run up with prop! KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!- That will be yet another new piet/engine combinat ion.- Shad ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:26:15 AM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Pietenpol-List: Polyurethane paint coverage estimate Group, I was wondering how many gallons of paint it takes to paint a piet s ized airplane (polyurethane, high gloss)-.- I have a small bipe I am bu ilding, and I got a great price on 4 gallons of recently expired shelf life gloss red aircraft paint (free).- With the price of paint especcially re d, It would save me close to $500+.- All I would need would be to buy X a mout of gals of white aero thane and use red as a trim color.- I really w anted orange/white, but an orange-ish red and white would work to , on a ju ngster replica.- Maybe do the Ernst Kessler style scheme for you Waldo Nu ts.- I will sacrifice some of the paint to cover up a test panel to throw out in the sun for a year or so of sun and weather exposure to see if it a dheres and or cracks. - Shad ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:59:42 AM PST US From: V Groah Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plan to get that blade out of the blank !2 I have been doing a lot of car touring and not much plane building this mon th. Everything is painted and reassembled except the wings. We have sever al hours on the engine and it checks out ok. Mike has started applying the graphics. His machine broke down so I bought one. We had planed to be fa ther along on that part. He is doing a great job. I like the design he ha s come up with. I will car tour again next week then we will put the plane in the car trailer and get the wings down and finish them. We are having a problem with the hanger we were promised. It will not come through. We will have to go to Visalia. Not too bad but not as convenien t as Tulare. Costs more too. I hope Mike will have time to put the rest of the graphics on the fuse soon . Then we will send you some pictures. The main part is done. Now that you have gotten all that doctor stuff done I hope you are making g reat progress and we will see some great photos at the next Piet meet=2C ma ybe a finished plane???? The great helper of yours should be pushing you along. Thanks for the note and for keeping in touch. The close bond with us west coast builders is one of the things that keeps us going and makes it fun. Thanks for the nudge. Vic do not archive From: boyerjrb@comcast.net Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plan to get that blade out of the blank !2 Hi Vic=2C How are you and Mike doing on the covering and painting? How about some upd ate pictures? thanks and say Hi to Mike. Jim ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:07:29 AM PST US From: Doug Dever Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Polyurethane paint coverage estimate If I remember right, (it's been a long time)-I think we used a little ove r 1 1/2 gal on the Tri-Pacers we did.- That was after all the filler coat s.- My dad got field approval to use automotive urethane.- We just put a flex agent in the paint.- One of them that I know of still had the same paint job 25yrs later.- No cracks.- Still shined.-- I do not remem ber exactly how much weight it added.- I think about 20lbs over the cotto n and dope it replaced.- When I get farther along I plan on doing 1 yd te st panels to see what rout I want to go.=0A-=0AMy .02=0A-=0ADoug=0A=0AF rom: shad bell =0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, September 18, 2011 12:23 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Pol yurethane paint coverage estimate=0A=0AGroup, I was wondering how many gall ons of paint it takes to paint a piet sized airplane (polyurethane, high gl oss)-.- I have a small bipe I am building, and I got a great price on 4 gallons of recently expired shelf life gloss red aircraft paint (free).- With the price of paint especcially red, It would save me close to $500+. - All I would need would be to buy X amout of gals of white aero thane an d use red as a trim color.- I really wanted orange/white, but an orange-i sh red and white would work to , on a jungster replica.- Maybe do the Ern st Kessler style scheme for you Waldo Nuts.- I will sacrifice some of the paint to cover up a test panel to throw out in the sun for a year or so of sun and weather exposure to see if it adheres and or cracks.=0A=0AShad =0A ============== ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:31:18 AM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Polyurethane paint coverage estimate Thanks Doug, I was thinking total finish coats would add up to about 4-5 ga ls.- I don't think the difference in weight would be too bad, considering it would only take about 1 1/2 cross coats to hide the silver, when using the same paint I have, 2 coats is usually enough on the jets, some times 3. - It is a pain it the a$$ to strip though. - Shad --- On Sun, 9/18/11, Doug Dever wrote: From: Doug Dever Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Polyurethane paint coverage estimate If I remember right, (it's been a long time)-I think we used a little ove r 1 1/2 gal on the Tri-Pacers we did.- That was after all the filler coat s.- My dad got field approval to use automotive urethane.- We just put a flex agent in the paint.- One of them that I know of still had the same paint job 25yrs later.- No cracks.- Still shined.-- I do not remem ber exactly how much weight it added.- I think about 20lbs over the cotto n and dope it replaced.- When I get farther along I plan on doing 1 yd te st panels to see what rout I want to go. - My .02 - Doug From: shad bell Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2011 12:23 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Polyurethane paint coverage estimate Group, I was wondering how many gallons of paint it takes to paint a piet s ized airplane (polyurethane, high gloss)-.- I have a small bipe I am bu ilding, and I got a great price on 4 gallons of recently expired shelf life gloss red aircraft paint (free).- With the price of paint especcially re d, It would save me close to $500+.- All I would need would be to buy X a mout of gals of white aero thane and use red as a trim color.- I really w anted orange/white, but an orange-ish red and white would work to , on a ju ngster replica.- Maybe do the Ernst Kessler style scheme for you Waldo Nu ts.- I will sacrifice some of the paint to cover up a test panel to throw out in the sun for a year or so of sun and weather exposure to see if it a dheres and or cracks. - Shad " rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenp ol-List et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:47:28 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Modified Seine Knot From: "dwilson" During Oshkosh there is a wing jig available that is used to teach rib stitching. Would there be any interest in having such a jig available to learn how to tie these knots during Broadhead? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352601#352601 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:14:04 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Modified Seine Knot From: jim_markle@mindspring.com Yes ------Original Message------ From: Marsha Wilson Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com ReplyTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Modified Seine Knot Sent: Sep 18, 2011 4:43 PM During Oshkosh there is a wing jig available that is used to teach rib stitching. Would there be any interest in having such a jig available to learn how to tie these knots during Broadhead? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352601#352601 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:45:50 PM PST US From: jorge lizarraga Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Modified Seine Knot2 just another wonderfull museum pice from these piet lovers great job guys c on grat I whisch my looks like but bery far back seyou in the air flyboys , jorge from hanfor --- On Sat, 9/17/11, Michael Groah wrote: From: Michael Groah Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Modified Seine Knot That's awesome Gary!- I'm glad to see you're getting that covering done, but slow down. How am I supposed to stay ahead of you when you're working s o quickly?- I guess I'll have to get my wings down this next weekend and start their covering.- I've got the logos on the side of the fuselage and now I'll start laying out for the stripe or spears down the side. I'm look ing forward to seeing more pics of your covering as it moves forward. Mike Groah Tulare CA Sent from my iPhone


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________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:45:56 PM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Modified Seine Knot That would be great Dan. As you know I've spent some time on the jig at OSH. Thanks, Jack DSM -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dwilson Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2011 3:43 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Modified Seine Knot During Oshkosh there is a wing jig available that is used to teach rib stitching. Would there be any interest in having such a jig available to learn how to tie these knots during Broadhead? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352601#352601 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:58:05 PM PST US From: Doug Dever Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Polyurethane paint coverage estimate To give you an idea. I did a '63 Ford Falcon Convertable last summer. A s hade less than 3 quarts of color and a Gallon of clear. And we put 5 good wet coats of clear on. (needed to wet sand and buff to mirror finnish). T hat was=2C of course=2C doing all the door jams and door edges where most o f the paint is lost. There is very little loss on an aircraft because it's mostly flat panels. Keep in mind though=2C With a high pressure gun only about 30-40% of the paint sticks to the surface. The rest is lost. Using an HVLP=2C 60-70% of the paint sticks. So if you were to "use" 3 gal of paint on an airplane=2C only 1 gal is actu ally "on" it. Minus the solvents. So=2C weight wise it's not as much as y ou would think. Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio From: aviatorbell@yahoo.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Polyurethane paint coverage estimate Thanks Doug=2C I was thinking total finish coats would add up to about 4-5 gals. I don't think the difference in weight would be too bad=2C consideri ng it would only take about 1 1/2 cross coats to hide the silver=2C when us ing the same paint I have=2C 2 coats is usually enough on the jets=2C some times 3. It is a pain it the a$$ to strip though. Shad --- On Sun=2C 9/18/11=2C Doug Dever wrote: From: Doug Dever Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Polyurethane paint coverage estimate If I remember right=2C (it's been a long time) I think we used a little ove r 1 1/2 gal on the Tri-Pacers we did. That was after all the filler coats. My dad got field approval to use automotive urethane. We just put a flex agent in the paint. One of them that I know of still had the same paint j ob 25yrs later. No cracks. Still shined. I do not remember exactly how much weight it added. I think about 20lbs over the cotton and dope it repl aced. When I get farther along I plan on doing 1 yd test panels to see wha t rout I want to go. My .02 Doug From: shad bell Sent: Sunday=2C September 18=2C 2011 12:23 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Polyurethane paint coverage estimate Group=2C I was wondering how many gallons of paint it takes to paint a piet sized airplane (polyurethane=2C high gloss) . I have a small bipe I am bu ilding=2C and I got a great price on 4 gallons of recently expired shelf li fe gloss red aircraft paint (free). With the price of paint especcially re d=2C It would save me close to $500+. All I would need would be to buy X a mout of gals of white aero thane and use red as a trim color. I really wan ted orange/white=2C but an orange-ish red and white would work to =2C on a jungster replica. Maybe do the Ernst Kessler style scheme for you Waldo Nu ts. I will sacrifice some of the paint to cover up a test panel to throw o ut in the sun for a year or so of sun and weather exposure to see if it adh eres and or cracks. Shad " rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenp ol-List et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution " rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenp ol-List et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:31:49 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Modified Seine Knot It's not anything like this, is it? Clif > > During Oshkosh there is a wing jig available that is used to teach rib > stitching. Would there be any interest in having such a jig available to > learn how to tie these knots during Broadhead? ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:56:17 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Can anyone identify this plane? From: "PatrickW" >From the odd curvature of the forward tube of the rudder, and the narrow landing gear, it's possible that this is a Albany-Washowski variant of a Longster. Radius of the rudder curve would have matched that of a maple tree in old Mr Washowski's back yard near Albany, MN, around that time. The engine isn't original, of course, assuming that's what this is. That looks like a VW in the picture. Don't think there were VW's back then (or plastic fuel tanks). Don't see the 3 cylinder Anzani's very much. No telling what kind of interesting stuff can be found in old Minnesota barns... - Pat -------- Patrick Hoyt 601XLb/Corvair N63PZ - 99.999% done.... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352627#352627 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:20:38 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Modified Seine Knot From: "dwilson" I was thinking about building a jig. I'd use three or four piet ribs and actually tak the fabric to the jig. I thought it would be a good idea to leave the ends open just so you could see how one single length of rib lacing chord wraps around the rib and secures both the top and bottom of the fabric. I think it would be great for those that have not rib stitched and wanted to learn how. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352631#352631 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:01:15 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Modified Seine Knot 3 or 4 ribs!! That'd take at least a year! Gary in Cool Do not archive - for Heaven's sake! -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dwilson Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2011 8:18 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Modified Seine Knot I was thinking about building a jig. I'd use three or four piet ribs and actually tak the fabric to the jig. I thought it would be a good idea to leave the ends open just so you could see how one single length of rib lacing chord wraps around the rib and secures both the top and bottom of the fabric. I think it would be great for those that have not rib stitched and wanted to learn how. 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