Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:36 AM - Re: Wooden Lift Struts (Update) (jacktextor)
2. 04:01 AM - Re: Re: Here I am...another new guy (Jack Phillips)
3. 04:54 AM - Re: Here I am...another new guy (Jerry Dotson)
4. 05:36 AM - Re: Mystery Engine - McCulloch? (Jerry Dotson)
5. 06:07 AM - Re: Re: Here I am...another new guy (helspersew@aol.com)
6. 06:15 AM - Re: Here I am...another new guy (TOM STINEMETZE)
7. 08:47 AM - Re: Here I am...another new guy (Michael Perez)
8. 10:19 AM - Re: Here I am...another new guy (Pocono John)
9. 10:20 AM - Re: Here I am...another new guy (K5YAC)
10. 10:28 AM - Re: Here I am...another new guy (Pocono John)
11. 12:04 PM - Re: Here I am...another new guy (dgaldrich)
12. 12:15 PM - Re: Here I am...another new guy (K5YAC)
13. 12:41 PM - Re: Re: Here I am...another new guy (Ben Charvet)
14. 03:06 PM - Miter Joints on ribs (Kyle85)
15. 03:13 PM - Re: Miter Joints on ribs (Doug Dever)
16. 04:15 PM - Re: Miter Joints on ribs (Kyle85)
17. 07:55 PM - Re: Miter Joints on ribs (K5YAC)
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| Subject: | Re: Wooden Lift Struts (Update) |
Mark, very nice work! Thanks for sharing the operation.
Jack
DSM
--------
Jack Textor
Des Moines, IA
www.textors.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353316#353316
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| Subject: | Re: Here I am...another new guy |
Hi John,
The long fuselage plans are in the supplemental plans package from the
Pietenpol family, so you should have it, along with the "short" fuselage in
the Improved (1933) Air Camper plans. The shortest fuselage is in the 1932
Flying and Glider Manual plans.
The one-piece wing is slightly lighter, but is more difficult to handle,
even if you have the room for it in your shop, which it sounds like you do
not. The one-piece wing is 29' long and requires a space of at least 12' x
32' to be able to safely turn it over and move around it. Even with enough
space, it is troublesome to move it and handle it (you'll be surprised how
often it must be flipped over during the covering and painting process).
The three piece wing also offers more flexibility in use of the
centersection for baggage storage or fuel.
The straight axle wooden gear is considerably stronger and more rugged than
the split axle gear, with one important exception: The axle itself is under
quite a bit of stress and needs to be made of fairly heavy wall tubing,
which along with the weight of the wire wheels, makes this gear considerably
heavier than the split axle design. To minimize the stress on the axle,
keep the wheels as close to the undercarriage as possible. The use of
brakes adds complexity to this undercarriage design and also tends to
increase stress in the axle due to extending the wheels further from the
bungees which are resisting the wheel loads. As for being rough on the
plane, either gear as designed provide plenty of shock absorption. If I
were to build mine over, I would use the split axle gear with wire wheels,
but would use die springs instead of bungees. The bungees are just a pain
in the butt to change, and need to be replaced about every 2 - 3 years.
One other suggestion - when you send your first order to Aircraft Spruce,
buy their "Bargain Bag of Spruce" for $37.50 (Yikes - when I was building
mine, it was $15). There are a lot of pieces of my airplane that were made
from pieces of spruce I got from their bargain bag. You'll be surprised how
much of it you will use.
The best suggestion I have is for you to plan now to go to Brodhead next
July to see all the Pietenpols there. No two are alike, and every one of
their builders had to answer the same questions you are now asking yourself.
It's interesting to see how many different solutions to the same problem you
can find.
Good luck,
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pocono John
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 9:35 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Here I am...another new guy
Thank you everyone for the warm welcome and your ideas. I take constructive
criticism well, so feel free to speak your mind.
As far as tools, I wanted to research and see what is out there and learn
the language. I'll definitely hold off buying until I need it, but at least
the research is done and I have a model number in mind. The funny thing is
now when I'm out with my wife, I park so we have to go through the tool
department.
My garage has 22' X 19' of working space I can use. It has two doors, 7'
high.
Here are my responses to some of your questions/comments:
JACK
I do have the plan's (plus supplements, the booklet...everything I could
order).
I want the long fuselage. Are the plans I have for long? How can I tell?
I prefer a one piece wing. If I can put the wing together in warm weather,
then bring it and the fuselage to a final assembly location, that should
work. Are there things I should consider besides the space saving
convenience of three wing sections?
I prefer the straight axle wooden gear (looks nice), but wondering if it's
rough on the plane. Split axle appears to provide more cushion. Not sure
what I'll do.
GARY
You're sure good at utilizing your garage space. I'm impressed!
MARK
Thanks. I plan to cut in the garage and since we're getting into cold
weather, I'll assemble each rib in the house and since there's no rush, I'll
use one of the techniques from websites I've seen to clamp gussets. I
probably am thinking too much, but I want to have the layout established.
Thanks for the Craigs list idea. Thanks for the photos of your work bench..
DAVE
Flew at Bar Harbor? CLE Chief?
KEN
We have so many digital cameras here, and all junk. I sure miss the days of
35mm. I'm going to try to find something that takes good photos. I tried a
camera tonight; took some test photos of what's left of my old hobby room.
BILL
Yes, I'm starting from scratch with tools. I'm amazed at how many things
I've built with just some basics: Circular and jig saw and my trusty
variable speed/reversible drill. You wrote "As far as the workbench goes,
I'm not sure what you're talking about - you plan to use a 4' x 8' floor as
your workbench, with a 2 foot deep cutout on one side, and mount your tools
on the workbench?"...what I meant was I thought that would serve as an area
to place tools or mount a vise (odds and ends?). For ribs and fuselage, I'll
build a table specifically for that such as the one EAA 100 designed. I may
still build the Tony Bingelis 30" X 30" tool table. I guess I'll see what
happens.
TOM
Thanks for the hobby miter box suggestion.
I'm attaching a couple of photos to try this out and see if the camera is a
piece of junk like my others. This is what remains of my hobby room in which
I built model rockets. I can either chuck it, or use it as an area to put
tools or do miscellaneous work; still thinking.
YIKES! I'm looking at the preview and looks like I'm going to have to buy
another camera. Oh well!
OK, not going to think too much. I'll get some milled wood, some from Wicks
and Spruce and compare them. Meanwhile, I'll build the rib jig (as soon as I
get the garage ready).
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Here I am...another new guy |
John,
You need to start building your rib jig NOW. Order some 1/4 X 1/2 spruce capstrip,some
1/16 plywood and T-88 epoxy and get started. The details will fall into
place. You have a jigsaw so with a little time you can have a Piet rib to show
us.
What Jack P said. I built the one piece wing and have a 40 X 50 hangar. It is 32.5
feet. I just finished covering it. Without a fancy jig to hold it you will
need 4 people total to turn it over safely. Dan Helsper built the fancy jig.
I did not. I have turned it 3 times so far. Now the finishing (painting and sanding
starts) and turning starts. I figure to turn it at least 4 more times. I
am fortunate to have family and friends that can come over after work to help.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
now covering
21" wheels
Lycoming O-235
Jay Anderson CloudCars prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353318#353318
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/a72_210.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/a71_126.jpg
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| Subject: | Re: Mystery Engine - McCulloch? |
Look at this one.
http://www.pimaair.org/collection-detail.php?cid=319
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
now covering
21" wheels
Lycoming O-235
Jay Anderson CloudCars prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353319#353319
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| Subject: | Re: Here I am...another new guy |
I prefer a one piece wing. If I can put the wing together in warm weather,
then
ring it and the fuselage to a final assembly location, that should work. Ar
e
here things I should consider besides the space saving convenience of three
ing sections?
With the one-piece wing, you will almost always need help turning it over d
uring the building process. It is difficult to paint, because there are ver
y few places to grab on while turning. Also, If you ever needed to move the
airplane with a truck or trailer it be a very long truck or trailer. But b
eing a purist, I had no choice but to do it.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Pocono John <tinmotion@yahoo.com>
Sent: Mon, Sep 26, 2011 8:38 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Here I am...another new guy
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| Subject: | Re: Here I am...another new guy |
John:
Just curious but what part of the build requires a snow blower?
Stinemetze
do not archive
>>> "Pocono John" <tinmotion@yahoo.com> 9/26/2011 8:34 PM >>>
I'm attaching a couple of photos to try this out and see if the camera is
a piece of junk like my others. This is what remains of my hobby room in
which I built model rockets. I can either chuck it, or use it as an area
to put tools or do miscellaneous work; still thinking.
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| Subject: | Re: Here I am...another new guy |
Hello John and welcome. I see that you have already received many replies to your
questions and pictures as well. Rather then repeat all that, I just wanted
to welcome you personally.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
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| Subject: | Re: Here I am...another new guy |
Thank you Michael. I'll wrap this up with a final comment.
I wish I could pick out wood since there's a place two hours away where I could
load up on spruce and plywood. Here is their page:
http://www.condonlumber.net/index.htm
Since I'm in no rush to fall out of the sky, I guess I'll have order from Wicks
and/or AS. If AC 43.13 had photos of what's good and what's not, maybe I'd take
a drive and check it out. Oh well!
Thanks again for all the advice. I'll start a new post when I have questions (later
today probably).
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353327#353327
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| Subject: | Re: Here I am...another new guy |
It does... right there in chapter 1.
Pocono John wrote:
> If AC 43.13 had photos of what's good and what's not, maybe I'd take a drive
and check it out.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353328#353328
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| Subject: | Re: Here I am...another new guy |
Not sure why my book has no photos. I went all through Chapter One and nothing.
Page 1-3 has descriptions of what is unacceptable, but that's it. Maybe I can
search the web for images.
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353329#353329
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| Subject: | Re: Here I am...another new guy |
All it takes to grade wood is a decent ruler and a Mk I Calibrated Eyeball. Well
over 90% of sitka spruce will meet the "slope/straightness" requirements, especially
in the longer rough lengths. The ruler will tell you if the growth ring
specification is met. The other issue is defects -- pitch pockets, pin knots
and so on are pretty easy to see and can be worked around in the initial milling.
What may NOT be obvious is issues caused by mishandling -- crushed pieces
and so on. One of the members of this board got a questionable spar from
AS&S that they reluctantly replaced because it had been mishandled. A careful
inspection checking for abrupt changes of direction looking along the long edges
will give a clue. It might be worth a 2 hour drive to save on the shipping
costs, especially for the spar and longeron sized pieces that have to go by
truck.
I'm in Belfast, ME, 30 NM south from BHB, as the crow flies.
Dave
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| Subject: | Re: Here I am...another new guy |
dgaldrich wrote:
> One of the members of this board got a questionable spar from AS&S that they
reluctantly replaced because it had been mishandled.
>
> Dave
They weren't THAT reluctant. Once the right people were made aware of the situation
they were fairly prompt in taking care of things. Just wanted to be clear
since I think it was my spar you were speaking of. It took them about 2 days
to work it up the chain, review the evidence with their people and resolve
the matter. Other than the spar, which could have been a big deal, I've always
got good products and service from AS&S.
The moral of the story... regardless of the source, inspect your materials closely
and buy from an outfit that will stand behind their product.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353337#353337
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| Subject: | Re: Here I am...another new guy |
My Piet was built of Douglas Fir bought locally and carefully graded by
me personally. 95 hours and it hasn't fallen out of the sky yet!
Ben
On 9/27/2011 1:16 PM, Pocono John wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Pocono John"<tinmotion@yahoo.com>
>
> Thank you Michael. I'll wrap this up with a final comment.
>
> I wish I could pick out wood since there's a place two hours away where I could
load up on spruce and plywood. Here is their page:
>
> http://www.condonlumber.net/index.htm
>
> Since I'm in no rush to fall out of the sky, I guess I'll have order from Wicks
and/or AS. If AC 43.13 had photos of what's good and what's not, maybe I'd
take a drive and check it out. Oh well!
>
> Thanks again for all the advice. I'll start a new post when I have questions
(later today probably).
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353327#353327
>
>
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
Message 14
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| Subject: | Miter Joints on ribs |
Hey Guys, I am new builder here and I just had a question regarding my ribs.
Has Anyone NOT cut miter joints for ribs and just cut to length and glued the gussets.
I really just want to make sure I am not wasting the precious time I do
have. I have a three year old, a month old baby, a wife, and a full time job
w/ OT. The only time I have to build is 4 AM to 6:30 AM before work. Not trying
to be hasty here, I just want to build a safe airplane in a somewhat timely
and efficient manner. Thanks in advance!
-Kyle
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353359#353359
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| Subject: | Miter Joints on ribs |
Tony Bingelis says either way is acceptable. I'm mitering mine. It just m
akes me feel better:)
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Miter Joints on ribs
> From: boschkyle@hotmail.com
> Date: Tue=2C 27 Sep 2011 15:04:26 -0700
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
>
> Hey Guys=2C I am new builder here and I just had a question regarding my
ribs.
> Has Anyone NOT cut miter joints for ribs and just cut to length and glued
the gussets. I really just want to make sure I am not wasting the precious
time I do have. I have a three year old=2C a month old baby=2C a wife=2C a
nd a full time job w/ OT. The only time I have to build is 4 AM to 6:30 AM
before work. Not trying to be hasty here=2C I just want to build a safe air
plane in a somewhat timely and efficient manner. Thanks in advance!
> -Kyle
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353359#353359
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
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>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Miter Joints on ribs |
Yeah I hear ya Doug, my conscience is already getting the better of me. I will
probably
Just continue with the miter cuts and feel better about myself too :p
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353364#353364
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| Subject: | Re: Miter Joints on ribs |
Yep, that's the way. I found it easiest to make a nice fitting set of master parts
and duplicate 32 times for each. Much more efficient than walking back and
forth to the band saw and disc sander for each rib. These aren't all my parts,
but you get the idea.
Same goes for the gussets. Regardless of the style you choose to make, make them
all and press on.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353378#353378
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