Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:43 AM - OT - Flight Service is Hiring (Wayne Bressler)
2. 05:21 AM - Re: Miter Joints on ribs (jarheadpilot82)
3. 06:49 AM - Re: Miter Joints on ribs (Dan Loegering)
4. 07:36 AM - Re: Re: Miter Joints on ribs (shad bell)
5. 07:47 AM - Re: Miter Joints on ribs (jarheadpilot82)
6. 09:34 AM - Re: Re: Miter Joints on ribs (Kenneth Howe)
7. 09:55 AM - Re: Miter Joints on ribs (Michael Perez)
8. 10:10 AM - Re: Re: Miter Joints on ribs (Ryan Mueller)
9. 10:15 AM - Re: Re: Miter Joints on ribs (Ryan Mueller)
10. 10:20 AM - Re: Re: Miter Joints on ribs (airlion)
11. 10:23 AM - Re: Miter Joints on ribs (K5YAC)
12. 10:56 AM - Re: Miter Joints on ribs (Don Emch)
13. 02:28 PM - Re: Miter Joints on ribs (Bill Church)
14. 02:41 PM - cable tension (Bob edson)
15. 03:55 PM - Re: cable tension (Dan Yocum)
16. 04:06 PM - Re: Miter Joints on ribs (Kyle85)
17. 04:27 PM - Re: cable tension (bender)
Message 1
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| Subject: | OT - Flight Service is Hiring |
This is off-topic, but I hope the information might help someone find a job. I'm
trying to share this information with as many people as possible. Please pardon
the post, otherwise.
___________________________
The job postings were listed today for developmental positions at the Lockheed
Martin Flight Service Washington Hub in Ashburn, VA. The website shows ten openings.
This may be a nice career for people on this list, or someone you know. Please
forward this around to any person or group who might be interested.
Even if someone doesn't meet the "minimums", I recommend applying anyway. You never
know.
These postings will likely not be up for long, so get your submission completed
ASAP.
To find all ten openings, go to www.lockheedmartinjobs.com and search "AFSS".
Please let me know if you have any questions!
Wayne Bressler
Taildraggers, Inc.
www.taildraggersinc.com
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| Subject: | Re: Miter Joints on ribs |
Kyle,
I asked this same question a few months ago. Here is a link to that discussion-
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=82296&highlight
John Kringle posted two photos of bridge gusset plates that answered my questions.
For sake of your search time, I have reposted them here. The strength of the
joint is the gusset and the quality of the attachment (glue) between the capstrip,
the vertical braces, and the gusset itself. But having said that, I am
still mitering the joints. I just do not worry as much about the miter joint
and worry more about getting the best coverage with the T88.
Hope that helps
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353405#353405
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/bridge2_854_429.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/bridge1_170_121.jpg
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| Subject: | RE: Miter Joints on ribs |
Kyle,
I left out the miter on my ribs as it made the pre work a little easier. However,
if you are concerned about strength, do what I did - make yourself two joints,
one with the miter, and one without. Then test to destruction. Both of
my samples failed outside of the gussets in about the same location. That was
good enough for my ability to sleep at night ;-)
That said, I do believe the mitered joint would be stronger simply because there
is more glue surface area in contact, but the strength is not needed because
the adjoining material will fail before the actual joint will.
If you do decide to use square ends, make sure you still put some glue on the cut
end to seal it during assembly, otherwise you may have a hard time working
varnish into the corner enough to seal these surfaces.
Dan Loegering
Fargo, ND
Time: 03:06:47 PM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Miter Joints on ribs
From: "Kyle85" <boschkyle@hotmail.com>
Hey Guys, I am new builder here and I just had a question regarding my ribs.
Has Anyone NOT cut miter joints for ribs and just cut to length and glued the gussets.
I really just want to make sure I am not wasting the precious time I do have. I
have a three year old, a month old baby, a wife, and a full time job w/ OT. The
only time I have to build is 4 AM to 6:30 AM before work. Not trying to be
hasty here, I just want to build a safe airplane in a somewhat timely and efficient
manner. Thanks in advance!
-Kyle
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Miter Joints on ribs |
Yes it would probably be ok to leave the rib sticks square......but this is
a good time to hoan your skills on a good fitting joint.- You will not w
ant to do that on the rest of the project, a rib is a lot cheaper than a fu
selage side to rebuild.
practice, practice, practice, Practice dosn't make perfect, perfect practic
e makes perfect.
-
Just My oppinion on the subject, to each their own.
Shad
-
--- On Wed, 9/28/11, Dan Loegering <dan.loegering@odaytank.com> wrote:
From: Dan Loegering <dan.loegering@odaytank.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Miter Joints on ribs
.com>
Kyle,
I left out the miter on my ribs as it made the pre work a little easier.-
However, if you are concerned about strength, do what I did - make yoursel
f two joints, one with the miter, and one without.- Then test to destruct
ion.- Both of my samples failed outside of the gussets in about the same
location.- That was good enough for my ability to sleep at night ;-)
That said, I do believe the mitered joint would be stronger simply because
there is more glue surface area in contact, but the strength is not needed
because the adjoining material will fail before the actual joint will.
If you do decide to use square ends, make sure you still put some glue on t
he cut end to seal it during assembly, otherwise you may have a hard time w
orking varnish into the corner enough to seal these surfaces.
Dan Loegering
Fargo, ND
Time: 03:06:47 PM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Miter Joints on ribs
From: "Kyle85" <boschkyle@hotmail.com>
Hey Guys, I am new builder here and I just had a question regarding my ribs
.
Has Anyone NOT cut miter joints for ribs and just cut to length and glued t
he gussets.
I really just want to make sure I am not wasting the precious time I do hav
e. I have a three year old, a month old baby, a wife, and a full time job w
/ OT. The only time I have to build is 4 AM to 6:30 AM before work. Not try
ing to be hasty here, I just want to build a safe airplane in a somewhat ti
mely and efficient manner. Thanks in advance!
-Kyle
le, List Admin.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Miter Joints on ribs |
Dan,
I was going to bring this up in a separate post, but since you mentioned it here,
I will keep it here as part of this thread.
I have thought that I, like you, would feel better about the strength of my wing
ribs if I test one to destruction. I just have not known how. Could you elaborate
on how you did that? What were your methods and what were your results?
Did you change anything about the way that you built your ribs as a result?
Thanks in advance for the information.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353413#353413
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| Subject: | Re: Miter Joints on ribs |
Terry,
Here's a simple rig I set up for testing my gluing technique. I glued up
the sample in my jig, clamping the same way I do for a full rib. The
sand bags are 10lbs each. I also have a rig for testing a full rib, but
unfortunately no pictures. For the full rib I have two 4' spar sections
(lumber store pine) and I center 1 rib on the spars. I have 4x4s with a
3/4" slot cut in them at 14 degree angle to simulate high angle of
attack. The stub spar and rib assembly is set inverted on the saw horses
with the nose of the rib pointed down the 14 degrees. Distribute the
sand bags chordwise along the rib.
Ken
On Sep 28, 2011, at 7:44 AM, jarheadpilot82 wrote:
<jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>
>
> Dan,
>
> I was going to bring this up in a separate post, but since you
mentioned it here, I will keep it here as part of this thread.
>
> I have thought that I, like you, would feel better about the strength
of my wing ribs if I test one to destruction. I just have not known how.
Could you elaborate on how you did that? What were your methods and what
were your results? Did you change anything about the way that you built
your ribs as a result?
>
> Thanks in advance for the information.
>
> --------
> Semper Fi,
>
> Terry Hand
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353413#353413
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Miter Joints on ribs |
Here's a picture of my miter cuts. Not necessary, but as noted, once figured out,
you can make all the miters quite quick.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Miter Joints on ribs |
This was discussed a couple years back on the list....I forget the
particulars, so you may want to check the archives. As far as what you'll
need, I recall the the following items:
500lbs of tractor weights
A small elephant (if feasible)
A gallon or two of Raka epoxy (not really used, but good to have around
anyways)
If the process outlined in the archives doesn't destroy, then you'll need a
bathtub, propane torch, and flammable liquid of some sort to proceed.
Sorry I don't recall the procedure...it's in the archives somewhere though.
Have a good day,
Ryan
do not archive
On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 9:44 AM, jarheadpilot82
<jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>wrote:
> jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>
>
> Dan,
>
> I was going to bring this up in a separate post, but since you mentioned it
> here, I will keep it here as part of this thread.
>
> I have thought that I, like you, would feel better about the strength of my
> wing ribs if I test one to destruction. I just have not known how. Could you
> elaborate on how you did that? What were your methods and what were your
> results? Did you change anything about the way that you built your ribs as a
> result?
>
> Thanks in advance for the information.
>
> --------
> Semper Fi,
>
> Terry Hand
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353413#353413
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Miter Joints on ribs |
My bad, 1000lbs of tractor weights....and a hammer.
You can substitute an oven for the firestarters as well.
do not archive
On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 12:08 PM, Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com> wrote:
> This was discussed a couple years back on the list....I forget the
> particulars, so you may want to check the archives. As far as what you'll
> need, I recall the the following items:
>
> 500lbs of tractor weights
> A small elephant (if feasible)
> A gallon or two of Raka epoxy (not really used, but good to have around
> anyways)
>
> If the process outlined in the archives doesn't destroy, then you'll need a
> bathtub, propane torch, and flammable liquid of some sort to proceed.
>
> Sorry I don't recall the procedure...it's in the archives somewhere though.
> Have a good day,
>
> Ryan
>
> do not archive
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 9:44 AM, jarheadpilot82 <
> jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>
>>
>> Dan,
>>
>> I was going to bring this up in a separate post, but since you mentioned
>> it here, I will keep it here as part of this thread.
>>
>> I have thought that I, like you, would feel better about the strength of
>> my wing ribs if I test one to destruction. I just have not known how. Could
>> you elaborate on how you did that? What were your methods and what were your
>> results? Did you change anything about the way that you built your ribs as a
>> result?
>>
>> Thanks in advance for the information.
>>
>> --------
>> Semper Fi,
>>
>> Terry Hand
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353413#353413
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Miter Joints on ribs |
I am not going to rebuild my ribs now that I have them done. ONCE i got the cap
strips on the jig I then fit each piece in the jig by sanding them to fit. I
have been told that you can cut them out all at once but I would not trust
myself to do that. Gardiner
________________________________
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com>
Sent: Wed, September 28, 2011 1:08:12 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Miter Joints on ribs
This was discussed a couple years back on the list....I forget the particulars,
so you may want to check the archives. As far as what you'll need, I recall the
the following items:
500lbs of tractor weights
A small elephant (if feasible)
A gallon or two of Raka epoxy (not really used, but good to have around anyways)
If the process outlined in the archives doesn't destroy, then you'll need a
bathtub, propane torch, and flammable liquid of some sort to proceed.
Sorry I don't recall the procedure...it's in the archives somewhere though. Have
a good day,
Ryan
do not archive
On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 9:44 AM, jarheadpilot82 <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>
wrote:
<jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>
>
>Dan,
>
>I was going to bring this up in a separate post, but since you mentioned it
>here, I will keep it here as part of this thread.
>
>I have thought that I, like you, would feel better about the strength of my wing
>ribs if I test one to destruction. I just have not known how. Could you
>elaborate on how you did that? What were your methods and what were your
>results? Did you change anything about the way that you built your ribs as a
>result?
>
>Thanks in advance for the information.
>
>
>--------
>Semper Fi,
>
>Terry Hand
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353413#353413
>
>
>==========
>st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>==========
>http://forums.matronics.com
>==========
>le, List Admin.
>="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>==========
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Miter Joints on ribs |
Ohh, now look at that. Strange how we look at things differently. All of my verticals
were butted to the ribs while the diagonals were fitted in between the
verticals... opposite of yours. I guess there is no right or wrong way structurally,
but that just looks more difficult to me, although it is essentially
the same.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353435#353435
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Miter Joints on ribs |
I mitered all of mine in my Piet. But since then I've rebuilt some Aeronca and
Taylorcraft wings with the same type of built up wood ribs. Both of them used
square joints in theirs. This past spring the L-2 wing I built has all squared
off pieces which is right off of the prints. It went amazingly faster. I
was able to build the set of ribs in a matter of days instead of months. Thank
you Taylorcraft. :-) The strength really is in the gussett.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353441#353441
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| Subject: | Re: Miter Joints on ribs |
Ryan's post brought back memories of a thread from a few years ago, which inspired
me to do a quick search of the archives, and helped me to find this helpful
photo of a test apparatus for checking rib strength. (see attached photo).
BC
And, no, I will NOT grow up.
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353465#353465
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/ribtest_597.jpg
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We have the tail feathers covered,filled,primed and starting to paint
with Stuart system- it works great. Ready to start covering wings and
want to know what tension to put on the different cables. We have a
tension gage so what is the tension required? Bob picture
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: cable tension |
This has been discussed in the past the list - I'm sure it's in the
archives. I think Pietenpol in the key of G is the answer. ;-)
Not too tight and not too loose. I think people have tightened with
their fingers and then gone one more full turn.
It doesn't need much, that's for sure. I've heard people say 8lb to
40lb. I think 40lb might be too much. When I do my pre-flight I give
them a strum and a low G is about right.
On 09/28/2011 04:36 PM, Bob edson wrote:
> We have the tail feathers covered,filled,primed and starting to paint
> with Stuart system- it works great. Ready to start covering wings and
> want to know what tension to put on the different cables. We have a
> tension gage so what is the tension required? Bob picture
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Miter Joints on ribs |
Haha! You guys are great, I really do appreciate all the replies. The only downside
is in my quest to save time on the ribs, it looks now like I will spend more
time experimenting and testing. Oh well, small price to pay for an education!
Thanks again guys.
-Kyle
>From Iowa....just live in New York
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353475#353475
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| Subject: | Re: cable tension |
things seem to get funky if you tighten the cables on the piet too much..
it kinda freaked me out at first.. but.. thats the way things were back then.
i have a reprint of a Jenny manual and it says...
"tighten the cables to till they are not slack but not so tight that they sing"
i think a tensiometer is not going to go that low
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353477#353477
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