Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:57 AM - Re: wings about to take shape (airlion)
2. 06:28 AM - Re: wings about to take shape (TOM STINEMETZE)
3. 06:43 AM - Covering question (TOM STINEMETZE)
4. 07:22 AM - Re: Covering question (helspersew@aol.com)
5. 08:07 AM - Re: Covering question (Don Emch)
6. 08:08 AM - Re: Covering question (Jack Phillips)
7. 08:21 AM - Re: Covering question (Dan Yocum)
8. 08:56 AM - Re: Covering question (TOM STINEMETZE)
9. 09:16 AM - Re: wings about to take shape (Dan Yocum)
10. 09:31 AM - Re: wings about to take shape (John Hofmann)
11. 09:34 AM - Barnstormers (Ozarkflyer)
12. 09:43 AM - Re: Barnstormers (brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com)
13. 09:52 AM - Re: Barnstormers (Ozarkflyer)
14. 09:59 AM - Re: Re: Barnstormers (Bryce Reid)
15. 10:01 AM - Re: Barnstormers (Grover Summers)
16. 10:26 AM - Re: wings about to take shape (Ryan Mueller)
17. 12:39 PM - Re: wings about to take shape (Don Emch)
18. 01:01 PM - barnstormers (airlion)
19. 01:27 PM - Re: Re: wings about to take shape (Jim Boyer)
20. 02:08 PM - Re: Barnstormers (K5YAC)
21. 04:02 PM - Re: Covering question (helspersew@aol.com)
22. 05:19 PM - Re: Re: wings about to take shape (Jack)
23. 05:50 PM - Re: Re: wings about to take shape (airlion)
24. 06:15 PM - Re: Barnstormers (Ozarkflyer)
25. 06:57 PM - Update on Mike "Tools" Danford's Trek back to Geor (jarheadpilot82)
26. 07:44 PM - Re: Re: Barnstormers (Ryan Mueller)
27. 09:12 PM - Drill guide (KM Heide CPO/FAAOP)
28. 10:01 PM - Fuselage tank and the C-85 engine...and beware ethanol in auto fuel. (Graham Hansen)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: wings about to take shape |
I have a 3 ft center section that holds 20 gallons and gives me a little over 3
hrs. I can only stay up 2 hrs anyhoo. Maybe you can use the extra space for a
baggage bin. Gardiner
________________________________
From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant@msn.com>
Sent: Sun, October 9, 2011 11:32:26 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wings about to take shape
Well, this is my semi-annual post to the list.. A couple of photos of the
center section in progress.
Tonight I spent a little time prepping the ribs for wing assembly. I believe I
may have the most expensive spars out there... I tried to go the "cheap" route
and get wood from Mckormicks - wood looked great until it was planed and then
had too many defects. Then I tried a local place that stocks fir - same deal.
I even tried gluing some of the fir up to remove the defects and had a gluing
mishap that ruined the spar I was working on - long story... Anyway, finally I
broke down and ordered from Aircraft Spruce. Expecting the spars to arrive soon
so once again I'm getting some enthusiasm going.
I've researched on here a bit about the rib / spar connection and didn't seem to
find a definitive answer on whether to glue or just nail the ribs to the spars.
I believe there are some flying examples where people have not glued but I think
the Tony Bengilis books talk about gluing the vertical rib member to the spar.
Anyone care to weigh in on this?
I've built a 4'-0" center section and my outer spars will be 12'-4" long each -
for some reason I believed that I wanted extra fuel capacity in the CC so that's
how I built it. Now I'm wondering if I'd ever want to sit in the plane that
long...
I was going over my logbook a little bit and I can't believe I started this in
2000. The ribs were built 6 years ago, the tail about 8 years ago, the fuselage
is now in 5th grade - 11 years... Not a whole lot has gone on since my son was
born in 06' but I keep slowly chipping away. I guess I did put a bit of time
and money into the engine - which I ended up selling...
What a ride it is to build your own airplane. At this rate you'll all see my
Piet at the 2022 Brodhead reunion - that is of course if we all live through
2012.
I'll update once I get a good start on the wings. Should be interesting.
Hopefully the truck will arrive soon - I can't wait.
Tom B.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: wings about to take shape |
Nice looking center section Tom. (Nice name too.) My center section is
in about the same state of construction so I can really emphasize with
your progress and the little headaches along the way. By the way, have
you been antiquing? I think I recognize that strange contraption on your
work table. You know, the one with the wood handle and the long metal
blade with (is that teeth?) Think my grandpa may have owned one of those.
Where do you plug it in?
Tom Stinemetze
N328X
do not archive
What a ride it is to build your own airplane. At this rate you'll all see
my Piet at the 2022 Brodhead reunion - that is of course if we all live
through 2012.
I'll update once I get a good start on the wings. Should be interesting.
Hopefully the truck will arrive soon - I can't wait.
Tom B.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Covering question |
Here's a couple of questions for those of you who know how to do fabric
covering. My wing center section will have a fiberglass fuel tank
installed, the top surface of which is basically the top surface of the
wing. Obviously when this surface is covered with fabric there is no
option to rib stitch as there is no rib to stitch to. Also, the fiberglass
surface is not smooth as the glass weave creates a somewhat pebbled
(rough) surface.
Is gluing the fabric down to the tank surface sufficient to keep the cloth
attached?
Should I try to prep that rough surface in some fashion to smooth it out
prior to attaching the cloth?
Should I just attach and rib stitch the cloth to the ribs on each side of
the tank bay and call that sufficient?
Should I just: "Throw away that $%^# fiberglass tank and make it out of
aluminum like Bernard did?
Thank you so much for your kind and generous advice.
Tom Stinemetze
N328X
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Covering question |
Tom,
#4) Don't tell anyone, but those #$*%$^# purists out there would tell me to
throw away my aluminum tank, since BHP stipulated one made from turnplate!
!
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: TOM STINEMETZE <TOMS@mcpcity.com>
Sent: Mon, Oct 10, 2011 8:43 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Covering question
Here's a couple of questions for those of you who know how to do fabric cov
ering. My wing center section will have a fiberglass fuel tank installed,
the top surface of which is basically the top surface of the wing. Obvious
ly when this surface is covered with fabric there is no option to rib stitc
h as there is no rib to stitch to. Also, the fiberglass surface is not smo
oth as the glass weave creates a somewhat pebbled (rough) surface.
Is gluing the fabric down to the tank surface sufficient to keep the cloth
attached?
Should I try to prep that rough surface in some fashion to smooth it out pr
ior to attaching the cloth?
Should I just attach and rib stitch the cloth to the ribs on each side of t
he tank bay and call that sufficient?
Should I just: "Throw away that $%^# fiberglass tank and make it out of alu
minum like Bernard did?
Thank you so much for your kind and generous advice.
Tom Stinemetze
N328X
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Covering question |
Tom,
It's tough to beat the advantages of a terneplate or aluminum tank. I suppose
you could make an aluminum panel to screw down on top of the fiberglass tank.
Or you could make a new tank out of aluminum or terneplate. [Wink]
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=354520#354520
Message 6
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| Subject: | Covering question |
How about another couple of options:
1) make a sheet of aluminum to cover the tank, rather than fabric. Easy to
get to the tank that way if you have problems
Or, 2) make thin rib caps out of aluminum channel that can ride over the
tank and rib stitch it to them. That is what I did, but I wish I had done
option 1) above.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM
STINEMETZE
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 9:41 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Covering question
Here's a couple of questions for those of you who know how to do fabric
covering. My wing center section will have a fiberglass fuel tank
installed, the top surface of which is basically the top surface of the
wing. Obviously when this surface is covered with fabric there is no option
to rib stitch as there is no rib to stitch to. Also, the fiberglass surface
is not smooth as the glass weave creates a somewhat pebbled (rough) surface.
1. Is gluing the fabric down to the tank surface sufficient to keep the
cloth attached?
2. Should I try to prep that rough surface in some fashion to smooth it
out prior to attaching the cloth?
3. Should I just attach and rib stitch the cloth to the ribs on each
side of the tank bay and call that sufficient?
4. Should I just: "Throw away that $%^# fiberglass tank and make it out
of aluminum like Bernard did?
Thank you so much for your kind and generous advice.
Tom Stinemetze
N328X
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Covering question |
On 10/10/2011 09:19 AM, helspersew@aol.com wrote:
> Tom,
> #4) Don't tell anyone, but those #$*%$^# purists out there would tell me
> to throw away my /aluminum/ tank, since BHP stipulated one made from
> turnplate!!
Egads! Next thing we'll hear is that Dan H. has put an *aircraft
engine* on his plane. Oh, the horror! You Benedict Arnold! You turn-coat!
<chuckle>
But, in all seriousness - Tom, I would advise against covering your tank
with fabric. Cover it with a thin sheet of aluminum or sheet metal and
screw it to t-nuts embedded in the ribs so you can get to the tank in
the event that it starts leaking (ask me how I know!).
See the attached image of how they do it on the New Standard (Rob Bach's
photo of Ted Davis)
Cheers,
Dan
> Dan Helsper
> Puryear, TN
> do not archive
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TOM STINEMETZE <TOMS@mcpcity.com>
> To: Matronics Pietenpol List <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Mon, Oct 10, 2011 8:43 am
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Covering question
>
> *Here's a couple of questions for those of you who know how to do fabric
> covering. My wing center section will have a fiberglass fuel tank
> installed, the top surface of which is basically the top surface of the
> wing. Obviously when this surface is covered with fabric there is no
> option to rib stitch as there is no rib to stitch to. Also, the
> fiberglass surface is not smooth as the glass weave creates a somewhat
> pebbled (rough) surface.*
>
> 1. *Is gluing the fabric down to the tank surface sufficient to keep
> the cloth attached?*
> 2. *Should I try to prep that rough surface in some fashion to smooth
> it out prior to attaching the cloth?*
> 3. *Should I just attach and rib stitch the cloth to the ribs on each
> side of the tank bay and call that sufficient?*
> 4. *Should I just: "Throw away that $%^# fiberglass tank and make it
> out of aluminum like Bernard did?*
>
> *Thank you so much for your kind and generous advice.*
> **
> *Tom Stinemetze*
> *N328X*
>
> *
>
> " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> p://forums.matronics.com
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
Message 8
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| Subject: | Covering question |
Jack and Dan:
Now THAT's why I love this list. Quick, to the point, good information,
and no flamin' the doofus. The aluminum sheet does sound like the way to
go. Does it need to be grounded for spark dissipation purposes?
Tom
>>> "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> 10/10/2011 10:05 AM >>>
How about another couple of options:
1) make a sheet of aluminum to cover the tank, rather than fabric. Easy
to get to the tank that way if you have problems
Or, 2) make thin rib caps out of aluminum channel that can ride over the
tank and rib stitch it to them. That is what I did, but I wish I had done
option 1) above.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: wings about to take shape |
Jim,
On 10/09/2011 11:28 PM, Jim Boyer wrote:
> Hi Tom,
>
> Your center section looks good. I wish I had made my center section
> larger for more fuel. Now I am trying to find how big a nose tank I can
> put in.
N8031 has a 11g tank in the center section and a 3.5+g header tank
behind the front 'pit dashboard.
N502R has a 12g nose tank, but it hangs so low that only the shortest
legged co-pilots are able to put their feet on the pedals without
smacking their shins on the tank.
Dan
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: wings about to take shape |
502R actually has a 17 gallon tank. Jim, contact me offline and I can
send you some pictures.
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2424 American Lane
Madison, WI 53704
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
On Oct 10, 2011, at 11:13 AM, Dan Yocum wrote:
>
> Jim,
>
> On 10/09/2011 11:28 PM, Jim Boyer wrote:
>> Hi Tom,
>>
>> Your center section looks good. I wish I had made my center section
>> larger for more fuel. Now I am trying to find how big a nose tank I
can
>> put in.
>
>
> N8031 has a 11g tank in the center section and a 3.5+g header tank
behind the front 'pit dashboard.
>
> N502R has a 12g nose tank, but it hangs so low that only the shortest
legged co-pilots are able to put their feet on the pedals without
smacking their shins on the tank.
>
> Dan
>
> --
> Dan Yocum
> Fermilab 630.840.6509
> yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
> "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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Anyone having trouble accessing the Barnstormer web-site? I've tried for several
days from several locations but it always times-out.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=354532#354532
Message 12
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No luck accessing Barnstormer's either.
Brian
SLC-UT
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Ozarkflyer
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 10:33 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Barnstormers
Anyone having trouble accessing the Barnstormer web-site? I've tried
for several days from several locations but it always times-out.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=354532#354532
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Barnstormers |
Thanks. I was starting to get paranoid. Or maybe we're both being picked on.
:?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=354536#354536
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Barnstormers |
I just got on using my phone
On Oct 10, 2011 11:54 AM, "Ozarkflyer" <lragan@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks. I was starting to get paranoid. Or maybe we're both being picked
> on. :?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=354536#354536
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Barnstormers |
The site is undergoing a "cyper attack" and they are trying to find out who
's responsible and return the site to service ASAP.=0AGrover=0A=0A=0A______
__________________________=0A=0ANo luck accessing Barnstormer's either.=0A
=0ABrian=0A=0ASLC-UT=0ADo not archive=0A=0A=0A=0AAnyone having trouble acce
ssing the Barnstormer web-site?- I've tried=0Afor several days from sever
al locations but it always times-out.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: wings about to take shape |
Regarding 502R....if patterning after that tank, and you are looking to give
informal flight instruction/checkout to someone who is not a properly sized
individual (or is as long of leg as I, and I'm only 5'11"), they will not be
able to operate the rudder pedals with that tank. For rides, no
problem....those dang shins get in the way otherwise....I feel Lowell's
pain. :P
Ryan
On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 11:29 AM, John Hofmann <jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com>wrote:
> 502R actually has a 17 gallon tank. Jim, contact me offline and I can send
> you some pictures.
>
>
> John Hofmann
> Vice-President, Information Technology
> The Rees Group, Inc.
> 2424 American Lane
> Madison, WI 53704
> Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
> Fax: 608.443.2474
> Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
>
> On Oct 10, 2011, at 11:13 AM, Dan Yocum wrote:
>
>
> Jim,
>
> On 10/09/2011 11:28 PM, Jim Boyer wrote:
>
> Hi Tom,
>
>
> Your center section looks good. I wish I had made my center section
>
> larger for more fuel. Now I am trying to find how big a nose tank I can
>
> put in.
>
>
> N8031 has a 11g tank in the center section and a 3.5+g header tank behind
> the front 'pit dashboard.
>
> N502R has a 12g nose tank, but it hangs so low that only the shortest
> legged co-pilots are able to put their feet on the pedals without smacking
> their shins on the tank.
>
> Dan
>
> --
> Dan Yocum
> Fermilab 630.840.6509
> yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
> "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty - The
> --> http://www.matr &n -
> &nbs -->
> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
> http://www.matronics.com/co================
>
>
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: wings about to take shape |
I was able to manage 14.5 gallons in the nose and keep it completely up out of
the way of the passengers feet and shins. It's all in the design and shape of
the tank. I can't imagine wanting any more fuel. I have an A-65 so that is
well over 3 hours of flying time. My longest leg has been 2 hours and 20 minutes.
Not good! An hour and a half for me is just fine for time aloft in the
Piet. If I am going somewhere, it is a much happier day of Piet traveling if
I make 4 or even 5 hour and a half legs than it is to make 2 or 3 maximum range
legs.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=354569#354569
Message 18
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works for me. gardiner
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: wings about to take shape |
Hi Don,
thanks, I am figuring on about 10+ gallons in the wing center section and I would
like about 3 or 4 more gallons in the nose. I am using a Corvair and think
they use about 5 to 5.5 gallons per hour so would be happy with at least 12 to
14 gallons. Want the wing center section tank for CG (actually have to as I have
so much stuff behind the firewall and want to maintain clearance from the
forward tank.
Jim B.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Barnstormers |
Working here.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=354578#354578
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Covering question |
Tom,
I glued a piece of wood cap strip to the top of my aluminum tank, right dow
n the centerline, and then fabricated a removable aluminum access panel, he
ld on simply with sheet metal screws into the wood (adjacent rib caps). So
far I have removed my leaky tank twice. So glad I didn't bury it. I probabl
y need to make a new tank. I have discovered after observing other producti
on tanks, that my design is not the best. Mine is prone to cracking at the
seams because I failed to stiffen the adjacent area with "dips" or corrugat
ions. At Oshkosh, there is the Aeromart, which is basically a big tent flea
market of everybody's unwanted aircraft parts. I paid special attention th
is year to the aluminum tank designs. Got some good ideas.
BTW the first morning (Tuesday) at the OSH Aeromart is kind of like a Black
Friday early a.m. line in front of WalMart. The true die-hards are all the
re standing in line about two hours before the opening. It is quite fun, an
d I participated this year despite having nothing on my agenda to buy. I wo
uld highly recommend it to any active Piet builder. There are many "treasur
es" to be had there every year. The year that Santiago (from Argentina) was
here, we had such a good time, trying to fulfill his wish list. The best s
trategy I have found is that when you spot anything of possible interest, g
rab it, placing it strategically under the arm, and continue on throughout
the tent repeating the same. Then, when you can hold no more, finally stop
to evaluate what you actually have, returning the unwanted items to the she
lves.
Now.............. laughing to myself, recalling the conversation,..........
... as the line of ruffians begins to snake closer to enter the Aeromart te
nt at the opening bell. "Every man for himself !!!" was the cry.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: TOM STINEMETZE <TOMS@mcpcity.com>
Sent: Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:56 am
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Covering question
Jack and Dan:
Now THAT's why I love this list. Quick, to the point, good information, an
d no flamin' the doofus. The aluminum sheet does sound like the way to go.
Does it need to be grounded for spark dissipation purposes?
Tom
>>> "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> 10/10/2011 10:05 AM >>>
How about another couple of options:
1) make a sheet of aluminum to cover the tank, rather than fabric. Easy to
get to the tank that way if you have problems
Or, 2) make thin rib caps out of aluminum channel that can ride over the ta
nk and rib stitch it to them. That is what I did, but I wish I had done op
tion 1) above.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake
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Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: wings about to take shape |
Does anyone out there have a Piet with a C85 utilizing a nose tank? I know
the 65's work fine with the fuel pressure, just wondering if the fire
breathing 85 can do it too.
Thanks,
Jack
DSM
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Emch
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 2:37 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: wings about to take shape
I was able to manage 14.5 gallons in the nose and keep it completely up out
of the way of the passengers feet and shins. It's all in the design and
shape of the tank. I can't imagine wanting any more fuel. I have an A-65
so that is well over 3 hours of flying time. My longest leg has been 2
hours and 20 minutes. Not good! An hour and a half for me is just fine for
time aloft in the Piet. If I am going somewhere, it is a much happier day
of Piet traveling if I make 4 or even 5 hour and a half legs than it is to
make 2 or 3 maximum range legs.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=354569#354569
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: wings about to take shape |
Hi Jim, I have the center section tank with 20 gal capacity and I burn 6
gal/hour. No forward tank. Cheers, Gardiner
________________________________
From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb@comcast.net>
Sent: Mon, October 10, 2011 4:25:18 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: wings about to take shape
Hi Don,
thanks, I am figuring on about 10+ gallons in the wing center section and I
would like about 3 or 4 more gallons in the nose. I am using a Corvair and think
they use about 5 to 5.5 gallons per hour so would be happy with at least 12 to
14 gallons. Want the wing center section tank for CG (actually have to as I have
so much stuff behind the firewall and want to maintain clearance from the
forward tank.
Jim B.
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Barnstormers |
Just got a message from the "Baroness" saying they had technical difficulties but
should be alright now. Tried it and got through.
Just cause I'm not paranoid doesn't mean they're not picking on me.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=354609#354609
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| Subject: | Update on Mike "Tools" Danford's Trek back to Geor |
Hello Good People,
Mike, aka "Tools", called me this evening, and asked me to give post and update
the Forum on his travels from Minnesota back to Georgia as the proud new owner
of his Pietenpol. This information may not be totally correct, but it is pretty
darn close.
He and his son left today to head back from Dick Navratil's to Georgia. Many of
you may recall Tools' earlier post of how he came about purchasing Dick's Pietenpol.
Anyway, they had hoped to be eating Yankee Pot Roast this evening in either
Illinois or Indiana (I can't remember where he said), but headwinds prevailed.
They hit pretty heavy headwinds (he said he figured they were only doing
about 45 knots groundspeed for a while) and made it as far as Brodhead by nightfall.
They found an empty hangar, opened the doors. pulled the plane inside,
and they are sleeping under the wing tonight and heading out at first light.
I think he said his goal was to get to Tennessee by night fall, but that may
be another ambitious day. He and his son are happy as clams, enjoying the journey,
and are safe. Keep them in your thoughts, and he will try to update you with
a more complete explanation once he gets back home.
The plane is flying great, they are having a great time, and he just wanted to
share the journey with this group that has been so supportive.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=354616#354616
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| Subject: | Re: Barnstormers |
Can we get a "do not archive"!? Does this or this thread need to be recorded
for perpetuity?!
do not archive
On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 8:12 PM, Ozarkflyer <lragan@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Just got a message from the "Baroness" saying they had technical
> difficulties but should be alright now. Tried it and got through.
> Just cause I'm not paranoid doesn't mean they're not picking on me.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=354609#354609
>
>
Message 27
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Members of the list:
-
These photos show me making the attachment of the tail section to the fuse
on the pietenpol. I wanted to show others the drill guide I made-using Cl
if Dawson's design. The photos tell all. Each hole aligned perfectly with t
he metal attachments! Thank you Clif for the idea.
-
Also, the lower brackets were-offset at 8 degree angle to match the tail
section-angle at the end attachment of the fuse. This allowed for the bra
cket to align on the horizontal stabilizer-correctly (Photo # 236/last ph
oto)
-KMHeide
Clif Dawson
Message 28
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| Subject: | Fuselage tank and the C-85 engine...and beware ethanol |
in auto fuel.
Group,
I will deal with the tank question first, and then provide a "heads up" with
an account of my experience with ethanol in auto fuel.
My Pietenpol has a 12.5 Imp. gal. ( 15 US gal.) fuselage tank located in the
nose. It is an expanded cross section of a Piper J3 tank, forming an ellipse
which holds 3 US gallons more than the J3's 12 US gal. This tank provides
ample clearance for the feet of the person in the front pit because it is
mounted as high as the cowl behind the firewall will allow.
Initially I used a Continental A-65, but substituted a C-85 early on and,
although I was apprehensive about the C-85's increased fuel flow
requirement, there has never been a fuel feed problem in over 700 hours with
the C-85.
However, totally unrelated to the fuel tank location, I did have a fuel flow
problem caused by ethanol (5 to 6%) in the auto fuel I was using in my
Pietenpol. For years, since 80/87 aviation fuel disappeared, I have used
regular auto fuel without problems until this summer. I had long ago
substituted steel float needles, in my Stromberg NAS3 carburetors, for the
neoprene-tipped ones but, for some reason as yet undetermined, didn't
realise the carburetor in my Piet still had the neoprene-tipped one until I
had disassembled the unit. I installed a spare carburetor that I KNEW had
the steel needle and, of course, it is unaffected by the ethanol in the
fuel and works fine.
Since then I measured and recorded dry dimensions of a new (old stock)
neoprene-tipped needle and then placed it in a glass jar containing
fresh-from-the-pump auto fuel. After about 5 hours I re-measured this needle
and found it had "grown" appreciably. This would lower the fuel level in the
float chamber causing a lean mixture which, at full throttle, could (and
did) result in engine stoppage. I strongly recommend that anyone using auto
fuel make certain that a steel float needle is installed in the NAS3 series
carburetor, if they have one on their engine. The Delrin needle is an
alternative to the neoprene type, but I don't know whether it is affected by
ethanol, or not. Someone out there will know.
I had flown for about 30 minutes with no problems, landed, and then
attempted to take off again. It was a short flight. Luckily there was lots
of runway ahead since I barely got airborne when things abruptly became
quiet. The first thing I checked was the fuel flow to the carburetor and it
was ample. The problem had to be in the carburetor...and it was. Why this
didn't occur at the first takeoff perhaps could be explained by these
factors:
1. The oil was then cool and the engine didn't turn up to the critical rpm
during the initial takeoff.
2. I had recently installed a finer-pitched propeller, allowing the engine
to rev up higher than it did with the other propeller.
The engine must have been running "borderline lean" since the introduction
of ethanol in auto fuel and these factors may have tipped the balance in
favor of engine stoppage.
My experience reminded me that the three most useless things in aviation
are:
1. The runway behind you. (Luckily, I started the takeoff with all of the
runway ahead of me.)
2. The altitude above you.
3. The fuel you didn't put in the tanks.
In nearly 61 years of flying, this is the first time an engine has quit on
me at takeoff, and I'm glad things worked out the way they did. Back in the
1920's, Hereward DeHavilland (Geoffrey's brother) said in essence:
"In order to survive, the aviator must be continually apprehensive."
He was so right!
Automotive gasoline has contained ethyl alcohol (5 to 6%) for several months
in Canada, and this probably applies to the USA as well. This summer I
encountered a service station that sold fuel containing 10% ethanol! (It was
consumed by my automobile, though.) The above experience has caused me to
wonder how ethanol might affect the flexible fuel lines in aircraft and my
chemist/aviator friend and I are currently conducting tests on samples of
aviation fuel hose and automotive fuel hose by immersing same in fresh auto
fuel. We will keep you posted.
Cheers,
Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN)
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