Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:20 AM - Re: cool video (dgaldrich)
2. 04:37 AM - Re: Sheet metal for cowlings and combings. (helspersew@aol.com)
3. 04:38 AM - Wire Wheel Bearings (Jack)
4. 04:51 AM - Re: Re: so i have been using poplar (helspersew@aol.com)
5. 04:55 AM - Re: Sheet metal for cowlings and combings. (Scott Knowlton)
6. 04:55 AM - Re: Wire Wheel Bearings (Gene Rambo)
7. 05:06 AM - Re: Another "New To List" Guy (helspersew@aol.com)
8. 05:15 AM - Re: Wire Wheel Bearings (helspersew@aol.com)
9. 05:48 AM - Re: Wire Wheel Bearings (Jack Phillips)
10. 06:35 AM - Re: Wire Wheel Bearings (Jack)
11. 06:59 AM - Re: Wire Wheel Bearings (Jack Phillips)
12. 07:27 AM - Re: Wire Wheel Bearings (John Hofmann)
13. 07:29 AM - Re: Re: Wire Wheel Bearings (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG FORSCOM)
14. 07:50 AM - Re: so i have been using poplar (bender)
15. 08:13 AM - Re: Wire Wheel Bearings (Jerry Dotson)
16. 08:35 AM - Re: Wire Wheel Bearings (tools)
17. 09:09 AM - Re: Another "New To List" Guy (DaveG601XL)
18. 09:36 AM - Re: Another "New To List" Guy (DaveG601XL)
19. 09:48 AM - Re: Re: Wire Wheel Bearings (Michael Perez)
20. 10:11 AM - Re: Wire Wheel Bearings (Jack)
21. 10:24 AM - Re: Copperstate (AircamperN11MS)
22. 10:31 AM - Re: Wire Wheel Bearings (Gboothe5)
23. 10:40 AM - Re: Another "New To List" Guy (Bryan Reed)
24. 10:47 AM - Re: Wire Wheel Bearings (AircamperN11MS)
25. 10:55 AM - Wire Wheels (Gboothe5)
26. 11:56 AM - Re: Re: Another "New To List" Guy (Jack Phillips)
27. 12:00 PM - Re: Wire Wheel Bearings (Jack Phillips)
28. 12:51 PM - Re: Re: Another "New To List" Guy (Bryan Reed)
29. 01:03 PM - Re: Wire Wheel Bearings (Jack)
30. 01:09 PM - Re: Push Pull Elevator? (Chris Rusch)
31. 01:09 PM - Re: Sheet metal for cowlings and combings. (Jim Ash)
32. 01:11 PM - Re: cool video (Chris Rusch)
33. 01:36 PM - Re: Wire Wheel Bearings (Jack Phillips)
34. 01:44 PM - Re: Wire Wheel Bearings (Bill Church)
35. 02:04 PM - Re: Re: Another "New To List" Guy (Jack Phillips)
36. 02:23 PM - Re: Wire Wheel Bearings (Jack)
37. 02:54 PM - Re: Another "New To List" Guy (Bill Church)
38. 03:17 PM - Re: Re: Another "New To List" Guy (Gboothe5)
39. 04:07 PM - Re: Wire Wheels (Jeff Wilson)
40. 07:16 PM - Re: Wire Wheel Bearings (Clif Dawson)
41. 07:57 PM - Re: Another "New To List" Guy (kevinpurtee)
Message 1
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Hi Douwe
Congratulations are in order for your getting the commission on this important
project. Any idea when it will be completed and shown to the public? I get to
NYC on a regular basis and would LOVE to see it. The video looks spectacular.
If you do miniatures, sign me up too. Maybe Dick and I can get consecutively numbered
ones. :D I'm serious and I'm pretty sure Dick is too.
Dave Aldrich
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355367#355367
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Sheet metal for cowlings and combings. |
I used .032" 3003 for the nose cowl. The way I did it, there were small bum
p-outs to avoid contact with the engine mount bolt heads, louvers under the
engine, and also some very small compound bends around the nose piece. 300
3 is soft enough for those things. 2024 .025 was used for the combing to ta
ke the passenger abuse.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
mail.com>
Gents, I had a small incident with my Stinson yesterday when a wind gust bl
ew
the passenger door open and against the boot cowl causing a small hole. I
decided to order a full sheet of material so that after fabricating the pat
ch I
will have sufficient mterial remaining for the cowlings of my piet.
What material are most using for cowlings? 2024, 6061 or 7075? 032 or 040
?
Thanks!
Scott Knowlton
Burlington Ontario
Message 3
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Subject: | Wire Wheel Bearings |
Group, my wire wheels have a 1 5/8=94 opening and have been fitted with
1 =BD=94
ID bronze bushings. Will this setup alone work with the 1 =BD=94 axle?
I would
rather utilize some type of a roller bearing but have not found any with
such a small wall thickness. It seems to me with just bushings the
friction
could be a problem.
Thanks,
Jack
DSM
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Subject: | Re: so i have been using poplar |
Marvin,
The DAR came to look at my plane to issue a temporary airworthiness certifi
cate, but was really only concerned about completing the government paperwo
rk, and to see if I had everything labeled properly. For me, he was more of
a nuisance than a help. I asked him twice to not lean on my combing, but h
e proceeded to bend it anyway. During your build it might be helpful for so
me knowledgeable friends to advise you along the way. The DAR doesn't have
the authority to tell you that your airplane is "unsafe".
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Marvin Haught <handainc@madisoncounty.net>
Sent: Mon, Oct 17, 2011 3:09 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: so i have been using poplar
.net>
Well, I'm not an authority, but according to this document
ttp://www.eaa206.org/tech_pdf/Certify_Homebuilt_Airplane.pdf
- an airworthiness inspection IS required for a homebuilt aircraft.
nd I do know that every airplane I know of that has flown in our
hapter had an airworthiness inspection by either a DAR or an FAA
nspector. My understanding is that the airworthiness inspection is
equired prior to flying off the test period.
M. Haught
On 10/17/2011 2:32 PM, bender wrote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "bender"<jfaith@solairusaviation.co
m>
I'm an IA and i'm using poplar...
there is no "airworthy" inspecton...thats why you fly a test period to pro
ve
t will work
you're using an approved wood species ...and it's an experimental plane
remember in the F&G manual Mr Pietenpol says the ship could be lighter
hroughout and he built on the side of ruggedness
an IA is not the FAA or a DAR...
i've met a few that had their own ideas of right and wrong
many of the A&P friends i have look at the piet after working on corporate
ets and think i'm crazy...
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355307#355307
-
.Marvin Haught Jr.
aught& Associates, Inc
untsville, AR 72740
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Sheet metal for cowlings and combings. |
Thanks to everyone for their inputs. I suppose my biggest challenge will be stowing
the coil of material safely in my shop for the next year or two until I
need it!
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: helspersew@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sheet metal for cowlings and combings.
I used .032" 3003 for the nose cowl. The way I did it, there were small bump-outs
to avoid contact with the engine mount bolt heads, louvers under the engine,
and also some very small compound bends around the nose piece. 3003 is soft
enough for those things. 2024 .025 was used for the combing to take the passenger
abuse.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
Gents, I had a small incident with my Stinson yesterday when a wind gust blew
the passenger door open and against the boot cowl causing a small hole. I
decided to order a full sheet of material so that after fabricating the patch I
will have sufficient mterial remaining for the cowlings of my piet.
What material are most using for cowlings? 2024, 6061 or 7075? 032
or 040?
Thanks!
Scott Knowlton
Burlington Ontario
==========
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enpol-List" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
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Message 6
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Subject: | Wire Wheel Bearings |
no problem at all with bronze bushings. Many=2C many aircraft have them.
Roller bearings without a heat treated axle can wear into the axle. do not
archive
From: jack@textors.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
Wire Wheel Bearings
Group=2C my wire wheels have a 1 5/8=94 opening and have been fitted with 1
=BD=94 ID bronze bushings. Will this setup alone work with the 1 =BD=94 a
xle? I would rather utilize some type of a roller bearing but have not fou
nd any with such a small wall thickness. It seems to me with just bushings
the friction could be a problem.
Thanks=2C
Jack
DSM
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Another "New To List" Guy |
Hi Dave,
Welcome, and good for you to take over your Dad's project. But you know, yo
u really need to get those wheels back from your brother Tim. If memory ser
ves, those spoked wheels that are spinning on his Pober were originally int
ended for, and part of your project :O)
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel Bearings |
Jack,
McMaster Carr has a full range of oil-impregnated bronze bushings. That is
what I used.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Rambo <generambo@msn.com>
Sent: Tue, Oct 18, 2011 6:55 am
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
no problem at all with bronze bushings. Many, many aircraft have them. Ro
ller bearings without a heat treated axle can wear into the axle.
do not archive
From: jack@textors.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
Group, my wire wheels have a 1 5/8=9D opening and have been fitted wi
th 1 =C2=BD=9D ID bronze bushings. Will this setup alone work with t
he 1 =C2=BD=9D axle? I would rather utilize some type of a roller be
aring but have not found any with such a small wall thickness. It seems to
me with just bushings the friction could be a problem.
Thanks,
Jack
DSM
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
"_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
Message 9
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Subject: | Wire Wheel Bearings |
Just grease them well at each annual and you will be fine. Gene is
correct
(as usual) that many (most?) antiques used bronze bushings. For a more
recent example, Mike Cuy uses bronze bushings on his Pietenpol.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene
Rambo
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 7:54 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
no problem at all with bronze bushings. Many, many aircraft have them.
Roller bearings without a heat treated axle can wear into the axle.
do not archive
_____
From: jack@textors.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
Group, my wire wheels have a 1 5/8=94 opening and have been fitted with
1 =BD=94
ID bronze bushings. Will this setup alone work with the 1 =BD=94 axle?
I would
rather utilize some type of a roller bearing but have not found any with
such a small wall thickness. It seems to me with just bushings the
friction
could be a problem.
Thanks,
Jack
DSM
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel Bearings |
Dan what is oil impregnated actually mean?
Jack Textor
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 18, 2011, at 7:13 AM, helspersew@aol.com wrote:
> Jack,
>
> McMaster Carr has a full range of oil-impregnated bronze bushings. That is
what I used.
>
> Dan Helsper
> Puryear, TN
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gene Rambo <generambo@msn.com>
> To: pietenpol-list <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tue, Oct 18, 2011 6:55 am
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
>
> no problem at all with bronze bushings. Many, many aircraft have them. R
oller bearings without a heat treated axle can wear into the axle.
>
> do not archive
>
> From: jack@textors.com
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
> Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 06:36:13 -0500
>
> Group, my wire wheels have a 1 5/8=9D opening and have been fitted w
ith 1 =C2=BD=9D ID bronze bushings. Will this setup alone work with t
he 1 =C2=BD=9D axle? I would rather utilize some type of a roller bea
ring but have not found any with such a small wall thickness. It seems to m
e with just bushings the friction could be a problem.
> Thanks,
> Jack
> DSM
>
>
> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
> " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> p://forums.matronics.com
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 11
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Subject: | Wire Wheel Bearings |
Try googling it, Jack.
OIL IMPREGNATED SINTERED BRONZE
Anchor Bronze offers oil filled sintered bronze sleeve bearings, flanged
bearings, thrust bearings, cored bars, solid bars and plates. Our
sintered
bronze products conform to ASTM recommended dimensions and tolerances.
After
forming, sintering and sizing, the bearings are vacuum impregnated with
SAE
30 oil that provides lubricant which is metered from the bearing to the
shaft during rotation. Standard sintered bronze bearings and wear plates
will function satisfactorily in temperatures ranging from 10=BAF to
220=BAF.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 9:33 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
Dan what is oil impregnated actually mean?
Jack Textor
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 18, 2011, at 7:13 AM, helspersew@aol.com wrote:
Jack,
McMaster Carr has a full range of oil-impregnated bronze bushings. That
is
what I used.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Rambo <generambo@msn.com>
Sent: Tue, Oct 18, 2011 6:55 am
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
no problem at all with bronze bushings. Many, many aircraft have them.
Roller bearings without a heat treated axle can wear into the axle.
do not archive
_____
From: <mailto:jack@textors.com> jack@textors.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
Group, my wire wheels have a 1 5/8=94 opening and have been fitted with
1 =BD=94
ID bronze bushings. Will this setup alone work with the 1 =BD=94 axle?
I would
rather utilize some type of a roller bearing but have not found any with
such a small wall thickness. It seems to me with just bushings the
friction
could be a problem.
Thanks,
Jack
DSM
st" target="_blank">
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
<http://forums.matronics.com/> http://forums.matronics.com
="_blank"> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
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ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel Bearings |
There is a "Mama" bearing and a "Papa" bearing. They fall in love (or
they have too much to drink one night and end up on the back of an old
Dodge van)....
do not archive
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2424 American Lane
Madison, WI 53704
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
On Oct 18, 2011, at 8:32 AM, Jack wrote:
> Dan what is oil impregnated actually mean?
>
> Jack Textor
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 18, 2011, at 7:13 AM, helspersew@aol.com wrote:
>
>> Jack,
>>
>> McMaster Carr has a full range of oil-impregnated bronze bushings.
That is what I used.
>>
>> Dan Helsper
>> Puryear, TN
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Gene Rambo <generambo@msn.com>
>> To: pietenpol-list <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Tue, Oct 18, 2011 6:55 am
>> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
>>
>> no problem at all with bronze bushings. Many, many aircraft have
them. Roller bearings without a heat treated axle can wear into the
axle.
>>
>> do not archive
>>
>> From: jack@textors.com
>> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
>> Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 06:36:13 -0500
>>
>> Group, my wire wheels have a 1 5/8=94 opening and have been fitted
with 1 =BD=94 ID bronze bushings. Will this setup alone work with the 1
=BD=94 axle? I would rather utilize some type of a roller bearing but
have not found any with such a small wall thickness. It seems to me
with just bushings the friction could be a problem.
>> Thanks,
>> Jack
>> DSM
>>
>>
>> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
>> " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> p://forums.matronics.com
>> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
>> ========================
>> >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> ========================
>> ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ========================
>>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on
>> ========================
>>
>
>
>
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel Bearings |
Just googled Sintered and found out that it is forming an object from a powder
without melting it. IN the case of brake pads they Heat form the pad and incude
other minerals. I guess that this makes it porous and it will hold oil in this
case.
Blue Skies, Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
> Try googling it, Jack.
>
>
>
> OIL IMPREGNATED SINTERED BRONZE
>
> Anchor Bronze offers oil filled sintered bronze sleeve bearings,
> flangedbearings, thrust bearings, cored bars, solid bars and
> plates. Our sintered
> bronze products conform to ASTM recommended dimensions and
> tolerances. After
> forming, sintering and sizing, the bearings are vacuum impregnated
> with SAE
> 30 oil that provides lubricant which is metered from the bearing to
> theshaft during rotation. Standard sintered bronze bearings and
> wear plates
> will function satisfactorily in temperatures ranging from 10F to
> 220F.
> Jack Phillips
>
> NX899JP
>
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
> Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 9:33 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
>
>
>
> Dan what is oil impregnated actually mean?
>
> Jack Textor
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Oct 18, 2011, at 7:13 AM, helspersew@aol.com wrote:
>
> Jack,
>
>
>
> McMaster Carr has a full range of oil-impregnated bronze bushings.
> That is
> what I used.
>
>
>
> Dan Helsper
>
> Puryear, TN
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gene Rambo <
> To: pietenpol-list <
> Sent: Tue, Oct 18, 2011 6:55 am
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
>
> no problem at all with bronze bushings. Many, many aircraft have them.
> Roller bearings without a heat treated axle can wear into the axle.
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
> _____
>
>
> From: <mailto:jack@textors.com> jack@textors.com
> To: <mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com> pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
> Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 06:36:13 -0500
>
> Group, my wire wheels have a 1 5/8 opening and have been fitted with 1
> ID bronze bushings. Will this setup alone work with the 1 axle? I would
> rather utilize some type of a roller bearing but have not found any with
> such a small wall thickness. It seems to me with just bushings the friction
> could be a problem.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jack
>
> DSM
>
>
>
> st" target="_blank"> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> <http://forums.matronics.com/> http://forums.matronics.com
> ="_blank"> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
> " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> p://forums.matronics.com
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Subject: | Re: so i have been using poplar |
i've been called crazy more than a few times...so maybe it's true
i was trying to say that its not up to a DAR or the FAA to determine that your
airplane is airworthy...
just that you followed the rules..
like Dan said.... "more of a nuisance than a help"
jeff
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Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel Bearings |
Jack,
I am using bronze bushings from.......You guessed it McMaster. I put a grease
fitting in the hub to just give it a shot now and then. If wear gets to be a problem
I will fly it more and drive it less!
do not archive
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
now covering
21" wheels
Lycoming O-235 C 2C
Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44
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Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel Bearings |
Personally I think the bronze bearings are the way to go, but, just in case you
want to research more. Needle bearings would fit in there. I'm not sure they
are rated for use in a wheel, but a bearing supplier could probably tell you.
Food for thought.
Tools
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Subject: | Re: Another "New To List" Guy |
Dan,
I can't remember if "my" original wheels are still on his Jr. Ace, or if they were
the ones crunched up on runway 36 at Oshkosh a few years back. I don't have
the heart to ask and bring up the bad memories. Either way, possession is 9/10's,
right?
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL: flying, 200+ hours now
Next project: Pietenpol/GN-1
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Subject: | Re: Another "New To List" Guy |
Bill, I will appreciate and listen to anyones opinion, asked for or not. Now whether
I heed that advice or not is another story altogether. As far as the gear
goes, that is one of the first things that perplexes me. I am based at a
paved runway and the most common places I would fly to are also paved. I have
only a little tailwheel time in the logbook, but what I do have is in Cubs and
Champs and I was honestly thinking about possibly using Cub gear. OK, slap,
slap, I probably deserve that. I am used to how their small round and fat tires
work, but I have little idea of how big and thin spoked wheels act. I was
a passenger in my brother's spoked Jr. Ace on pavement only once and it seemed
to be more squirrelly and even less tolerant of side loads. In the battle between
"looks right" and "handles right," I will err towards the latter, but it
is certianly tempting that I can just slap some wheels on my current gear and
go as opposed to re-doing the whole thing. Opinions here are certainly welcome.
The second, out of a thousand things, that perplexes me with this project requires
a little closer look at the gear attach fittings. Only the front fitting
has a lift strut attachment point. Are there any Pietenpol/GN-1's out there where
both lift struts attach down at the same point?? I certainly need some help
with this one.
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL: flying, 200+ hours now
Next project: Pietenpol/GN-1
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355417#355417
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Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel Bearings |
I went the bronze bushing route as well.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
Message 20
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Subject: | Wire Wheel Bearings |
You got me Jack! I do like Hofmann=92s answer though. Thanks to all
for your
input and offer to machine! Next question, yes I Googled, is there a
way to
tell the difference between pregnant and sterile bearings? I=92m
guessing
mine are sterile.
Jack
DSM
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Phillips
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 8:57 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
Try googling it, Jack.
OIL IMPREGNATED SINTERED BRONZE
Anchor Bronze offers oil filled sintered bronze sleeve bearings, flanged
bearings, thrust bearings, cored bars, solid bars and plates. Our
sintered
bronze products conform to ASTM recommended dimensions and tolerances.
After
forming, sintering and sizing, the bearings are vacuum impregnated with
SAE
30 oil that provides lubricant which is metered from the bearing to the
shaft during rotation. Standard sintered bronze bearings and wear plates
will function satisfactorily in temperatures ranging from 10=BAF to
220=BAF.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 9:33 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
Dan what is oil impregnated actually mean?
Jack Textor
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 18, 2011, at 7:13 AM, helspersew@aol.com wrote:
Jack,
McMaster Carr has a full range of oil-impregnated bronze bushings. That
is
what I used.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Rambo <generambo@msn.com>
Sent: Tue, Oct 18, 2011 6:55 am
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
no problem at all with bronze bushings. Many, many aircraft have them.
Roller bearings without a heat treated axle can wear into the axle.
do not archive
_____
From: <mailto:jack@textors.com> jack@textors.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
Group, my wire wheels have a 1 5/8=94 opening and have been fitted with
1 =BD=94
ID bronze bushings. Will this setup alone work with the 1 =BD=94 axle?
I would
rather utilize some type of a roller bearing but have not found any with
such a small wall thickness. It seems to me with just bushings the
friction
could be a problem.
Thanks,
Jack
DSM
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Hi Mike,
I considered it but now have other plans. You should have great weather.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
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Subject: | Wire Wheel Bearings |
Bearings vs. bushings=85you=92re giving Bill Church an apoplexy=85
Gary from Cool
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 10:09 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
You got me Jack! I do like Hofmann=92s answer though. Thanks to all
for your
input and offer to machine! Next question, yes I Googled, is there a
way to
tell the difference between pregnant and sterile bearings? I=92m
guessing
mine are sterile.
Jack
DSM
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Phillips
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 8:57 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
Try googling it, Jack.
OIL IMPREGNATED SINTERED BRONZE
Anchor Bronze offers oil filled sintered bronze sleeve bearings, flanged
bearings, thrust bearings, cored bars, solid bars and plates. Our
sintered
bronze products conform to ASTM recommended dimensions and tolerances.
After
forming, sintering and sizing, the bearings are vacuum impregnated with
SAE
30 oil that provides lubricant which is metered from the bearing to the
shaft during rotation. Standard sintered bronze bearings and wear plates
will function satisfactorily in temperatures ranging from 10=BAF to
220=BAF.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 9:33 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
Dan what is oil impregnated actually mean?
Jack Textor
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 18, 2011, at 7:13 AM, helspersew@aol.com wrote:
Jack,
McMaster Carr has a full range of oil-impregnated bronze bushings. That
is
what I used.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Rambo <generambo@msn.com>
Sent: Tue, Oct 18, 2011 6:55 am
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
no problem at all with bronze bushings. Many, many aircraft have them.
Roller bearings without a heat treated axle can wear into the axle.
do not archive
_____
From: jack@textors.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
Group, my wire wheels have a 1 5/8=94 opening and have been fitted with
1 =BD=94
ID bronze bushings. Will this setup alone work with the 1 =BD=94 axle?
I would
rather utilize some type of a roller bearing but have not found any with
such a small wall thickness. It seems to me with just bushings the
friction
could be a problem.
Thanks,
Jack
DSM
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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=========
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=========
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Subject: | Re: Another "New To List" Guy |
David,
I have had those same concerns. That is the main reason I was only looking for
the 16" to 18" spokes. I will be landing on concrete or pavement here most of
the time. On grass there is a lot of slip so loads do not transfer as forcefully
to wheel side load. A warm day here in monsoon season and you can regularly
encounter a lot of X-wind. In the old 172 it was not uncommon to actually be
pushed sideways across the runway. I am concerned the taller the wheel the greater
the chance of the spokes buckling.
Is this a concern at all? Has this ever been a problem on the 21" spoke wheels?
Of course this is pending the physical limits for crosswind on the Piet. That
would also be helpful info from you veteran Piet flyers.
Thanks for any input,
Bryan
--------
While I may not always be right, I apologize well.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355434#355434
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Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel Bearings |
I've got brass bushings in mine. They work great. Just don't fit them too tight
and keep them greased well.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
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Bryan,
Some will say, "Yes"; some will say, "No." Mine are 21" Harley Sportster
wheels...very heavy duty (note: 'heavy', weighing about 21 lbs!). I inserted
a solid 1" axle and use bearings designed for motorcycles, for which the
wheels were modified (www.paughco.com).
Gary from Cool
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Reed
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 10:38 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Another "New To List" Guy
David,
I have had those same concerns. That is the main reason I was only looking
for the 16" to 18" spokes. I will be landing on concrete or pavement here
most of the time. On grass there is a lot of slip so loads do not transfer
as forcefully to wheel side load. A warm day here in monsoon season and you
can regularly encounter a lot of X-wind. In the old 172 it was not uncommon
to actually be pushed sideways across the runway. I am concerned the taller
the wheel the greater the chance of the spokes buckling.
Is this a concern at all? Has this ever been a problem on the 21" spoke
wheels?
Of course this is pending the physical limits for crosswind on the Piet.
That would also be helpful info from you veteran Piet flyers.
Thanks for any input,
Bryan
--------
While I may not always be right, I apologize well.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355434#355434
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Subject: | Re: Another "New To List" Guy |
Bryan,
I've got about 260 hours on my 21" wheels. More than half of that time
was
operating off paved runways, with one (forced) landing on a road where I
hit
hard enough to break the axle. No damage to the wheel, other than a few
scratches as the brakeline drug it along the road. I didn't even have
to
tweak the spokes to true it up after the accident.
I've flown it a few times in more of a crosswind than I liked, the
stiffest
being a little over 20 knots direct crosswind on a paved runway.
Landing
was fine. Taking off was another matter. I kept the tail down to keep
tailwheel steering as long as possible, because at slow speeds the
rudder
would not be strong enough to keep it from weather-vaning. However, in
the
3-point attitude as it got light the wind was strong enough to literally
push the tires sideways across the runway, with the tires screeching in
protest. I let it push me near the edge and then got the tail up and
just
weather-vaned it into the wind and took off across the runway (more like
45=B0
to the runway). Again, no problems for the wheels. Wire wheels are
just
about the strongest wheel you can make.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia (a paved runway)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bryan
Reed
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 1:38 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Another "New To List" Guy
David,
I have had those same concerns. That is the main reason I was only
looking
for the 16" to 18" spokes. I will be landing on concrete or pavement
here
most of the time. On grass there is a lot of slip so loads do not
transfer
as forcefully to wheel side load. A warm day here in monsoon season and
you
can regularly encounter a lot of X-wind. In the old 172 it was not
uncommon
to actually be pushed sideways across the runway. I am concerned the
taller
the wheel the greater the chance of the spokes buckling.
Is this a concern at all? Has this ever been a problem on the 21"
spoke
wheels?
Of course this is pending the physical limits for crosswind on the
Piet.
That would also be helpful info from you veteran Piet flyers.
Thanks for any input,
Bryan
--------
While I may not always be right, I apologize well.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355434#355434
Message 27
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|
Subject: | Wire Wheel Bearings |
Oil Impregnated bearings (also called Oilite Bearings, after the brand
name
of one of the first companies to make them) have a distinct oily feel to
them. If you set them on a clean paper towel and leave them for an hour
you
should see a bit of oil on the paper towel. Also, since they are made
from
sintered powdered bronze, if you look at them under a microscope they
are
not perfectly smooth like plain bronze would be after machining. They
look
(and are) slightly porous.
Or, to beat John Hofmann to it, the impregnated ones are a little larger
and
crave ice cream.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 1:09 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
You got me Jack! I do like Hofmann=92s answer though. Thanks to all
for your
input and offer to machine! Next question, yes I Googled, is there a
way to
tell the difference between pregnant and sterile bearings? I=92m
guessing
mine are sterile.
Jack
DSM
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Phillips
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 8:57 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
Try googling it, Jack.
OIL IMPREGNATED SINTERED BRONZE
Anchor Bronze offers oil filled sintered bronze sleeve bearings, flanged
bearings, thrust bearings, cored bars, solid bars and plates. Our
sintered
bronze products conform to ASTM recommended dimensions and tolerances.
After
forming, sintering and sizing, the bearings are vacuum impregnated with
SAE
30 oil that provides lubricant which is metered from the bearing to the
shaft during rotation. Standard sintered bronze bearings and wear plates
will function satisfactorily in temperatures ranging from 10=BAF to
220=BAF.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 9:33 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
Dan what is oil impregnated actually mean?
Jack Textor
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 18, 2011, at 7:13 AM, helspersew@aol.com wrote:
Jack,
McMaster Carr has a full range of oil-impregnated bronze bushings. That
is
what I used.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Rambo <generambo@msn.com>
Sent: Tue, Oct 18, 2011 6:55 am
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
no problem at all with bronze bushings. Many, many aircraft have them.
Roller bearings without a heat treated axle can wear into the axle.
do not archive
_____
From: <mailto:jack@textors.com> jack@textors.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
Group, my wire wheels have a 1 5/8=94 opening and have been fitted with
1 =BD=94
ID bronze bushings. Will this setup alone work with the 1 =BD=94 axle?
I would
rather utilize some type of a roller bearing but have not found any with
such a small wall thickness. It seems to me with just bushings the
friction
could be a problem.
Thanks,
Jack
DSM
st" target="_blank">
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
<http://forums.matronics.com/> http://forums.matronics.com
="_blank"> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=========
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
=========
ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
=========
http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribut
ion
=========
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Message 28
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|
Subject: | Re: Another "New To List" Guy |
Thanks Jack,
I was not in a hurry to give up the cool look that the tall spokes added
.
I am also pleased at the crosswind capabilities. I was hoping the reduced
surface area of the sides offset the light weight Piet.
Now if only my plans would arrive I could just get on with the building
and quit asking stupid questions. I received the booklet with a re-publish
of the 1931 plans as a dedication to Bernard Pietenpol last Friday. I am
hoping the rest is soon to follow.
Bryan
On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 11:52 AM, Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>wro
te:
> ** **
>
> ****Bryan****,****
>
> ** **
>
> I've got about 260 hours on my 21" wheels. More than half of that time w
as
> operating off paved runways, with one (forced) landing on a road where I
hit
> hard enough to break the axle. No damage to the wheel, other than a few
> scratches as the brakeline drug it along the road. I didn't even have to
> tweak the spokes to true it up after the accident.****
>
> ** **
>
> I've flown it a few times in more of a crosswind than I liked, the stiffe
st
> being a little over 20 knots direct crosswind on a paved runway. Landing
> was fine. Taking off was another matter. I kept the tail down to keep
> tailwheel steering as long as possible, because at slow speeds the rudder
> would not be strong enough to keep it from weather-vaning. However, in t
he
> 3-point attitude as it got light the wind was strong enough to literally
> push the tires sideways across the runway, with the tires screeching in
> protest. I let it push me near the edge and then got the tail up and jus
t
> weather-vaned it into the wind and took off across the runway (more like
45=B0
> to the runway). Again, no problems for the wheels. Wire wheels are just
> about the strongest wheel you can make.****
>
> ** **
>
> Jack Phillips****
>
> NX899JP****
>
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia (a paved runway)****
>
> ** **
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Reed
> Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 1:38 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Another "New To List" Guy
>
> ** **
>
>
> ** **
>
> David,****
>
> ** **
>
> I have had those same concerns. That is the main reason I was only
> looking for the 16" to 18" spokes. I will be landing on concrete or pavem
ent
> here most of the time. On grass there is a lot of slip so loads do not
> transfer as forcefully to wheel side load. A warm day here in monsoon sea
son
> and you can regularly encounter a lot of X-wind. In the old 172 it was no
t
> uncommon to actually be pushed sideways across the runway. I am concerned
> the taller the wheel the greater the chance of the spokes buckling. ****
>
> ****
>
> Is this a concern at all? Has this ever been a problem on the 21" spoke
> wheels? ****
>
> Of course this is pending the physical limits for crosswind on the Piet
.
> That would also be helpful info from you veteran Piet flyers.****
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks for any input,****
>
> ** **
>
> ****Bryan********
>
> ** **
>
> --------****
>
> While I may not always be right, I apologize well.****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Read this topic online here:****
>
> ** **
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355434#355434****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
Message 29
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|
Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel Bearings |
Looks like mine are sterile or virgin. Thanks Jack!
Do not archive
Jack Textor
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 18, 2011, at 1:57 PM, "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Oil Impregnated bearings (also called Oilite Bearings, after the brand nam
e of one of the first companies to make them) have a distinct oily feel to t
hem. If you set them on a clean paper towel and leave them for an hour you s
hould see a bit of oil on the paper towel. Also, since they are made from s
intered powdered bronze, if you look at them under a microscope they are not
perfectly smooth like plain bronze would be after machining. They look (an
d are) slightly porous.
>
> Or, to beat John Hofmann to it, the impregnated ones are a little larger a
nd crave ice cream.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li
st-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
> Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 1:09 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
>
> You got me Jack! I do like Hofmann=99s answer though. Thanks to al
l for your input and offer to machine! Next question, yes I Googled, is the
re a way to tell the difference between pregnant and sterile bearings? I
=99m guessing mine are sterile.
> Jack
> DSM
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li
st-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Phillips
> Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 8:57 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
>
> Try googling it, Jack.
>
> OIL IMPREGNATED SINTERED BRONZE
>
> Anchor Bronze offers oil filled sintered bronze sleeve bearings, flanged b
earings, thrust bearings, cored bars, solid bars and plates. Our sintered br
onze products conform to ASTM recommended dimensions and tolerances. After f
orming, sintering and sizing, the bearings are vacuum impregnated with SAE 3
0 oil that provides lubricant which is metered from the bearing to the shaft
during rotation. Standard sintered bronze bearings and wear plates will fun
ction satisfactorily in temperatures ranging from 10=C2=BAF to 220=C2=BAF.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li
st-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
> Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 9:33 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
>
> Dan what is oil impregnated actually mean?
>
> Jack Textor
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 18, 2011, at 7:13 AM, helspersew@aol.com wrote:
>
>> Jack,
>>
>> McMaster Carr has a full range of oil-impregnated bronze bushings. That i
s what I used.
>>
>> Dan Helsper
>> Puryear, TN
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Gene Rambo <generambo@msn.com>
>> To: pietenpol-list <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Tue, Oct 18, 2011 6:55 am
>> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
>>
>> no problem at all with bronze bushings. Many, many aircraft have them. R
oller bearings without a heat treated axle can wear into the axle.
>>
>> do not archive
>>
>> From: jack@textors.com
>> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
>> Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 06:36:13 -0500
>>
>> Group, my wire wheels have a 1 5/8=9D opening and have been fitted w
ith 1 =C2=BD=9D ID bronze bushings. Will this setup alone work with t
he 1 =C2=BD=9D axle? I would rather utilize some type of a roller bea
ring but have not found any with such a small wall thickness. It seems to m
e with just bushings the friction could be a problem.
>> Thanks,
>> Jack
>> DSM
>>
>>
>> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
>> " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> p://forums.matronics.com
>> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
>> =========================
=========
>> >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> =========================
=========
>> ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> =========================
=========
>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribut
ion
>> =========================
=========
>>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
==========================
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>
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Subject: | Re: Push Pull Elevator? |
Thanks for all the replies!
Barry, i am looking forward to seeing your pictures, thanks.
I just applied to the UK piet club, they said i can download there revisions once
im a member. They have the lower rudder horn revision as shown above.
Does anyone have the elevator loads in lbs?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355456#355456
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Subject: | Re: Sheet metal for cowlings and combings. |
What he said. Although 3003 should not be used for structural parts, it's easier
to shape than 2024. If you're not going to be putting any shape into the metal
but just bending it and riveting it, I'd probably be inclined to go with the
2024.
If you want to actually form your nose bowl, go with the 3003, and make sure you
get it in the -H14 (half-hard) hardness. Full soft would be too soft for your
needs, and full hard is more difficult to shape, to the point you might as well
have used 2024.
Jim Ash
-----Original Message-----
From: helspersew@aol.com
Sent: Oct 18, 2011 7:35 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sheet metal for cowlings and combings.
I used .032" 3003 for the nose cowl. The way I did it, there were small bump-outs
to avoid contact with the engine mount bolt heads, louvers under the engine,
and also some very small compound bends around the nose piece. 3003 is soft
enough for those things. 2024 .025 was used for the combing to take the passenger
abuse.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
Gents, I had a small incident with my Stinson yesterday when a wind gust blew
the passenger door open and against the boot cowl causing a small hole. I
decided to order a full sheet of material so that after fabricating the patch I
will have sufficient mterial remaining for the cowlings of my piet.
What material are most using for cowlings? 2024, 6061 or 7075? 032 or 040?
Thanks!
Scott Knowlton
Burlington Ontario
==========
-List Email Forum -
enpol-List" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
==========
p; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
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p; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
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Great Job Douwe!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355457#355457
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Subject: | Wire Wheel Bearings |
What kind of ice cream are they demanding?
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
Looks like mine are sterile or virgin. Thanks Jack!
Do not archive
Jack Textor
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 18, 2011, at 1:57 PM, "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
Oil Impregnated bearings (also called Oilite Bearings, after the brand
name
of one of the first companies to make them) have a distinct oily feel to
them. If you set them on a clean paper towel and leave them for an hour
you
should see a bit of oil on the paper towel. Also, since they are made
from
sintered powdered bronze, if you look at them under a microscope they
are
not perfectly smooth like plain bronze would be after machining. They
look
(and are) slightly porous.
Or, to beat John Hofmann to it, the impregnated ones are a little larger
and
crave ice cream.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 1:09 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
You got me Jack! I do like Hofmann=92s answer though. Thanks to all
for your
input and offer to machine! Next question, yes I Googled, is there a
way to
tell the difference between pregnant and sterile bearings? I=92m
guessing
mine are sterile.
Jack
DSM
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Phillips
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 8:57 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
Try googling it, Jack.
OIL IMPREGNATED SINTERED BRONZE
Anchor Bronze offers oil filled sintered bronze sleeve bearings, flanged
bearings, thrust bearings, cored bars, solid bars and plates. Our
sintered
bronze products conform to ASTM recommended dimensions and tolerances.
After
forming, sintering and sizing, the bearings are vacuum impregnated with
SAE
30 oil that provides lubricant which is metered from the bearing to the
shaft during rotation. Standard sintered bronze bearings and wear plates
will function satisfactorily in temperatures ranging from 10=BAF to
220=BAF.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 9:33 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
Dan what is oil impregnated actually mean?
Jack Textor
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 18, 2011, at 7:13 AM, <mailto:helspersew@aol.com>
helspersew@aol.com
wrote:
Jack,
McMaster Carr has a full range of oil-impregnated bronze bushings. That
is
what I used.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Rambo < <mailto:generambo@msn.com> generambo@msn.com>
pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Tue, Oct 18, 2011 6:55 am
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
no problem at all with bronze bushings. Many, many aircraft have them.
Roller bearings without a heat treated axle can wear into the axle.
do not archive
_____
From: <mailto:jack@textors.com> <mailto:jack@textors.com>
jack@textors.com
<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com> pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
Group, my wire wheels have a 1 5/8=94 opening and have been fitted with
1 =BD=94
ID bronze bushings. Will this setup alone work with the 1 =BD=94 axle?
I would
rather utilize some type of a roller bearing but have not found any with
such a small wall thickness. It seems to me with just bushings the
friction
could be a problem.
Thanks,
Jack
DSM
st" target="_blank">
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
<http://forums.matronics.com/> <http://forums.matronics.com>
http://forums.matronics.com
="_blank"> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target=_blank> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=========
> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
=========
ums.matronics.com"> <http://forums.matronics.com>
http://forums.matronics.com
=========
http://www.matronics.com/contribution">
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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http://forums.matronics.com
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|
Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel Bearings |
I just Googled "apoplexy" ...
Gary wrote:
> Bearings vs. bushingsyoure giving Bill Church an apoplexy
>
> Gary from Cool
>
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355461#355461
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Subject: | Re: Another "New To List" Guy |
The GN-1 that crashed last week had V-struts:
Not that the struts had anything to do with the accident.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DaveG601XL
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 12:31 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Another "New To List" Guy
<david.m.gallagher@ge.com>
Bill, I will appreciate and listen to anyones opinion, asked for or not.
Now whether I heed that advice or not is another story altogether. As far
as the gear goes, that is one of the first things that perplexes me. I am
based at a paved runway and the most common places I would fly to are also
paved. I have only a little tailwheel time in the logbook, but what I do
have is in Cubs and Champs and I was honestly thinking about possibly using
Cub gear. OK, slap, slap, I probably deserve that. I am used to how their
small round and fat tires work, but I have little idea of how big and thin
spoked wheels act. I was a passenger in my brother's spoked Jr. Ace on
pavement only once and it seemed to be more squirrelly and even less
tolerant of side loads. In the battle between "looks right" and "handles
right," I will err towards the latter, but it is certianly tempting that I
can just slap some wheels on my current gear and go as opposed to re-doing
the whole thing. Opinion!
s here are certainly welcome.
The second, out of a thousand things, that perplexes me with this project
requires a little closer look at the gear attach fittings. Only the front
fitting has a lift strut attachment point. Are there any Pietenpol/GN-1's
out there where both lift struts attach down at the same point?? I
certainly need some help with this one.
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL: flying, 200+ hours now
Next project: Pietenpol/GN-1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355417#355417
Message 36
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|
Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel Bearings |
None yet, will let u know when I impregnate them...
Do not archive
Jack Textor
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 18, 2011, at 3:32 PM, "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> What kind of ice cream are they demanding?
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li
st-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
> Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 4:00 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
>
> Looks like mine are sterile or virgin. Thanks Jack!
> Do not archive
>
> Jack Textor
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 18, 2011, at 1:57 PM, "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> wrot
e:
>
>> Oil Impregnated bearings (also called Oilite Bearings, after the brand na
me of one of the first companies to make them) have a distinct oily feel to t
hem. If you set them on a clean paper towel and leave them for an hour you s
hould see a bit of oil on the paper towel. Also, since they are made from s
intered powdered bronze, if you look at them under a microscope they are not
perfectly smooth like plain bronze would be after machining. They look (an
d are) slightly porous.
>>
>> Or, to beat John Hofmann to it, the impregnated ones are a little larger a
nd crave ice cream.
>>
>> Jack Phillips
>> NX899JP
>> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>>
>> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-l
ist-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 1:09 PM
>> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
>>
>> You got me Jack! I do like Hofmann=99s answer though. Thanks to a
ll for your input and offer to machine! Next question, yes I Googled, is th
ere a way to tell the difference between pregnant and sterile bearings? I
=99m guessing mine are sterile.
>> Jack
>> DSM
>>
>> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-l
ist-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Phillips
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 8:57 AM
>> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
>>
>> Try googling it, Jack.
>>
>> OIL IMPREGNATED SINTERED BRONZE
>>
>> Anchor Bronze offers oil filled sintered bronze sleeve bearings, flanged b
earings, thrust bearings, cored bars, solid bars and plates. Our sintered br
onze products conform to ASTM recommended dimensions and tolerances. After f
orming, sintering and sizing, the bearings are vacuum impregnated with SAE 3
0 oil that provides lubricant which is metered from the bearing to the shaft
during rotation. Standard sintered bronze bearings and wear plates will fun
ction satisfactorily in temperatures ranging from 10=C2=BAF to 220=C2=BAF.
>>
>> Jack Phillips
>> NX899JP
>> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>>
>> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-l
ist-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 9:33 AM
>> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
>>
>> Dan what is oil impregnated actually mean?
>>
>> Jack Textor
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Oct 18, 2011, at 7:13 AM, helspersew@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>> Jack,
>>>
>>> McMaster Carr has a full range of oil-impregnated bronze bushings. That i
s what I used.
>>>
>>> Dan Helsper
>>> Puryear, TN
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Gene Rambo <generambo@msn.com>
>>> To: pietenpol-list <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>>> Sent: Tue, Oct 18, 2011 6:55 am
>>> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
>>>
>>> no problem at all with bronze bushings. Many, many aircraft have them.
Roller bearings without a heat treated axle can wear into the axle.
>>>
>>> do not archive
>>>
>>> From: jack@textors.com
>>> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Bearings
>>> Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 06:36:13 -0500
>>>
>>> Group, my wire wheels have a 1 5/8=9D opening and have been fitted
with 1 =C2=BD=9D ID bronze bushings. Will this setup alone work with
the 1 =C2=BD=9D axle? I would rather utilize some type of a roller b
earing but have not found any with such a small wall thickness. It seems to
me with just bushings the friction could be a problem.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Jack
>>> DSM
>>>
>>>
>>> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>>> http://forums.matronics.com
>>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>>> p://forums.matronics.com
>>> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ========================
>>> >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>>> ========================
>>> ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>>> ========================
>>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribu
tion
>>> ========================
>>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
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=========
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=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
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Subject: | Re: Another "New To List" Guy |
Hey Dave,
Don't get me wrong. There's nothing wrong with the split axle landing gear. What
I (personally) take issue with is when actual J-3 Cub gear is used on an Aircamper.
When the lift struts are not in line with the gear attachment points,
it looks wrong, and from an engineering standpoint, it doesn't make sense for
the stresses to not follow a continuous path. Because of this discontinuity, I
believe the GN-1 gear has a bunch of added structure on the underside of the
belly. Back in the day, when John Grega drew up the plans for the GN-1, used Cub
parts (including landing gear) were fairly plentiful and inexpensive. Today
it is a different story, so most builders end up building the landing gear from
scratch. My point here is that if you have to build the gear from scratch,
why not build gear that is actually designed for the aircraft it will be installed
on, rather than duplicating landing gear that was designed for a different
airplane.
Now, in your case, you have a unique set of landing gear - straight axle, Jenny-style,
but not quite the Pietenpol design. I guess it is a cross between the
Pietenpol and Grega designs. I hadn't noticed that the rear attach brackets don't
have attachment points for the lift struts, but on second glance, I guess
they don't. There have been Air Campers and/or Aircampers built with V struts
(like a Cub), but in order to do so, one would need to some analysis to determine
the loading, and compensate for the different load paths. I think it would
be far easier to either modify or remake the rear attach brackets to incorporate
the lift strut attach points.
As for tall, skinny wheels or fat wheels, that is a matter of personal preference.
If you feel more comfortable with fat tires, then use them. However, most
Piets built today will operate (at least part of the time) off of paved strips,
and probably about half are built with skinny wheels and half with fat. Both
types of wheels work well using the split gear. One thing... if you use fat tires,
don't make them too small... Oh there I go again with my opinions.
Bill C.
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Subject: | Re: Another "New To List" Guy |
.and what kind of engine was that? Not that the engine had anything to do
with it.or maybe it did.[shut up, Gary]
Gary from Cool
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Phillips
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 2:00 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Another "New To List" Guy
The GN-1 that crashed last week had V-struts:
Not that the struts had anything to do with the accident.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DaveG601XL
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 12:31 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Another "New To List" Guy
<david.m.gallagher@ge.com>
Bill, I will appreciate and listen to anyones opinion, asked for or not.
Now whether I heed that advice or not is another story altogether. As far
as the gear goes, that is one of the first things that perplexes me. I am
based at a paved runway and the most common places I would fly to are also
paved. I have only a little tailwheel time in the logbook, but what I do
have is in Cubs and Champs and I was honestly thinking about possibly using
Cub gear. OK, slap, slap, I probably deserve that. I am used to how their
small round and fat tires work, but I have little idea of how big and thin
spoked wheels act. I was a passenger in my brother's spoked Jr. Ace on
pavement only once and it seemed to be more squirrelly and even less
tolerant of side loads. In the battle between "looks right" and "handles
right," I will err towards the latter, but it is certianly tempting that I
can just slap some wheels on my current gear and go as opposed to re-doing
the whole thing. Opinion!
s here are certainly welcome.
The second, out of a thousand things, that perplexes me with this project
requires a little closer look at the gear attach fittings. Only the front
fitting has a lift strut attachment point. Are there any Pietenpol/GN-1's
out there where both lift struts attach down at the same point?? I
certainly need some help with this one.
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL: flying, 200+ hours now
Next project: Pietenpol/GN-1
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I think what most use, and I am using, is the 19 inch motorcycle rim. With tire
mounted it measures 24 inches diameter. I'm using the home made hub that is available
in the archives (no time to search right now) and it is wider than the
normal cycle hubs. Then have it laced at any decent motorcycle shop. Then of
course use pregnant bushings to roll em on.
Jeff Wilson
N899WT (someday)
St. Louis, MO
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 18, 2011, at 12:51 PM, "Gboothe5" <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Bryan,
>
> Some will say, "Yes"; some will say, "No." Mine are 21" Harley Sportster
> wheels...very heavy duty (note: 'heavy', weighing about 21 lbs!). I inserted
> a solid 1" axle and use bearings designed for motorcycles, for which the
> wheels were modified (www.paughco.com).
>
> Gary from Cool
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Reed
> Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 10:38 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Another "New To List" Guy
>
>
> David,
>
> I have had those same concerns. That is the main reason I was only looking
> for the 16" to 18" spokes. I will be landing on concrete or pavement here
> most of the time. On grass there is a lot of slip so loads do not transfer
> as forcefully to wheel side load. A warm day here in monsoon season and you
> can regularly encounter a lot of X-wind. In the old 172 it was not uncommon
> to actually be pushed sideways across the runway. I am concerned the taller
> the wheel the greater the chance of the spokes buckling.
>
> Is this a concern at all? Has this ever been a problem on the 21" spoke
> wheels?
> Of course this is pending the physical limits for crosswind on the Piet.
> That would also be helpful info from you veteran Piet flyers.
>
> Thanks for any input,
>
> Bryan
>
> --------
> While I may not always be right, I apologize well.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355434#355434
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel Bearings |
Smear them with enough icecream and maybe you
won't have too.....
So, anyway, I couldn't find wire wheels around here
for love or money. Then I realized that since I plan
on covering the things what's inside don't matter!
All I can say is thank God I actually bought that
combo lathe/mill on sale for $1000 even though it
cut seriously into the ole budget. It somehow magicaly
made a pair of hub extensions and two sets of
flanged bronze bushings. Many other things too!
Clif
None yet, will let u know when I impregnate them...
Do not archive
Jack Textor
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Subject: | Re: Another "New To List" Guy |
Bryan - I'll 2nd Jack's comments on the wire wheels on concrete. Like Jack, I've
got over two DOZEN hours in FBG with several HUNDRED landings on concrete.
I've managed landings where the winds were strong enough to require someone to
hold the airplane while I got out, during refuel, and when I got back in. Those
winds were never straight down the runway, of course.
The only issue I've had was with broken spokes. Seems I over-tightened them.
We've apparently solved the problem by loosening them.
I dragged a wingtip one time and the wheels didn't complain.
I had the left gear come loose and dangle during a landing. The airplane ended
up on top of the wheel. Again, the wheel showed no signs of distress.
Drive on, my friend. Enjoy your pretty, tall, spoked wheels.
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
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