Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:36 AM - Re: Mike Cuy Video (bubbleboy)
2. 03:03 AM - Re: Nailing ribs to spars (Jack)
3. 03:16 AM - Re: helping the newbies?? (Tim White)
4. 03:29 AM - Thank you for thi info so far. (Matthijs de Groot)
5. 05:01 AM - Re: Nailing ribs to spars (airlion)
6. 05:51 AM - Re: Nailing ribs to spars (Greg Bacon)
7. 06:11 AM - aluminum - stiffening ribs (Greg Bacon)
8. 06:15 AM - Re: Mike Cuy Video (TOM STINEMETZE)
9. 08:50 AM - Re: aluminum - stiffening ribs (Hans Van Der Voort)
10. 09:01 AM - Re: Nailing ribs to spars (womenfly2)
11. 10:42 AM - Re: Nailing ribs to spars (dwilson)
12. 11:40 AM - Helping the newbies (helspersew@aol.com)
13. 01:28 PM - Re: aluminum - stiffening ribs (Daniel Engelkenjohn)
14. 02:12 PM - GN-1 FOR SALE (Dan Gaston)
15. 02:16 PM - Re: Helping the newbies (Bill Church)
16. 02:33 PM - Re: Re: Nailing ribs to spars (C N Campbell)
17. 05:41 PM - eBay Item Baffle Cowling (Jack)
18. 05:50 PM - Re: Re: Helping the newbies (Jack)
19. 07:09 PM - Re: Helping the newbies (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
20. 08:03 PM - Re: Helping the newbies (Ryan Mueller)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Mike Cuy Video |
I sent a WAV copy of both his VHS tapes. I converted them to a WAV file so anybody
could watch them around the world.
Scotty
--------
Tamworth, Australia
Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper
www.scottyspietenpol.com
Rudder, Vert stab, Elevators, Hor Stab and Ribs built...About to start fuselage...Corvair
engine at Roy's Garage waiting to be modified.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359985#359985
Message 2
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| Subject: | Nailing ribs to spars |
Tom, the only nails I used were to keep the caps from sliding when gluing.
Here is a picture of a trial spar piece I glued up.
http://textors.com/sawdust_054.jpg
Jack
DSM
NX1929T
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
tdudley@umn.edu
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:25 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Nailing ribs to spars
Last month the question was raised about epoxy vs. nailing the ribs to the
spars. It seemed to be that either method was acceptable and the responses
given were in favor of nails.
I am using the 4-3/4" X 3/4" solid spars. The ribs are built to plans (1/2"
wide X 1/4" thick spruce attachment to the spar).
I'll ask this question after reviewing the archives and after reading the
Bingelis books-- are 20 gauge nails appropriate here or do you use 18 gauge,
or does it really even matter since the difference is so slight? To get 3X
the thickness of the surface wood (i.e., 1/4"), I plan on using nails 1" in
length. I know it's another of my "soft" questions, but I was just
interested in knowing what others have done that has worked.
Having asked this, I promise I will not ask how to hold the hammer to place
the nails.
Tom
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359964#359964
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: helping the newbies?? |
On 11/30/2011 12:58 PM, Lawrence Williams wrote:
> Hey JM, be careful about who you tell to "Search the archives". They
> are more about,"Congratulations", or "I wish mine was as nice as
> yours" or "What I did in the war" or some other well-meaning but
> totally useless post rather than good solid info.
>
> We need to use a WHOLE LOT more "do not archive" spots in most of our
> posts so that the archives are meaningful and helpful to someone 5
> years from now. Unfortunately, as they stand there is a bunch of
> garbage that must be waded through and disregarded just to get to the
> occasional nugget of helpful info.
>
> Might be a good new year's resolution!
>
> Larry W.
>
> *
>
>
> *
Amen to that! The forum is becoming more useless because of the
aforementioned posts. I like watching someone start their engine for
the first time, but congratulations should be sent to the individual
directly not posted on the forum.
Tim White
Message 4
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| Subject: | Thank you for thi info so far. |
Thanks guys
To Hans great tip Din 1.7218 it is .
To Dan & Brett The motor info was exact what I was looking for. But I
like to know the date of the pdf file you included .
Mi motor is the 1928 version whit the oil pump out side the oil pan .
I here they changed the specs in 1930. So is this file pre or after
1930?Is it true there is a difference?
To Bill good tip but I already had in mind to not have every thing cut
in one go .Some parts will fit for sure. Il wait whit the rest.
To all, Im still looking for those CAD drawings of the metal.
I found a "book" called How I make wood propellers by E.Alvin Schubert.
On page 71 till 73 it shows the drawings for a aircamper A ford prop.
Did anyone build this prop? And is it any good? Im thinking of making
this.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Nailing ribs to spars |
I will be using a pin nailer with stainless steel pin nails. Cheers, Gardiner
--- On Wed, 11/30/11, tdudley@umn.edu <tdudley@umn.edu> wrote:
> From: tdudley@umn.edu <tdudley@umn.edu>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Nailing ribs to spars
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, November 30, 2011, 10:25 PM
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted
> by: "tdudley@umn.edu"
> <tdudley@umn.edu>
>
> Last month the question was raised about epoxy vs. nailing
> the ribs to the spars. It seemed to be that either
> method was acceptable and the responses given were in favor
> of nails.
>
> I am using the 4-3/4" X 3/4" solid spars. The ribs
> are built to plans (1/2" wide X 1/4" thick spruce attachment
> to the spar).
>
> I'll ask this question after reviewing the archives and
> after reading the Bingelis books-- are 20 gauge nails
> appropriate here or do you use 18 gauge, or does it really
> even matter since the difference is so slight? To get
> 3X the thickness of the surface wood (i.e., 1/4"), I plan on
> using nails 1" in length. I know it's another of my
> "soft" questions, but I was just interested in knowing what
> others have done that has worked.
>
> Having asked this, I promise I will not ask how to hold the
> hammer to place the nails.
>
> Tom
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359964#359964
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Lists This Month --
> Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
> Raiser. Click on
> out more about
> Gifts provided
> www.aeroelectric.com
> www.buildersbooks.com
> www.homebuilthelp.com
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
> Email Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Nailing ribs to spars |
Tom,
I used 18 gauge 3/4" SS brads on a 3/4" spar. A 1" brad may protrude
through the spar a bit if you sink one in a little deeper in a softer piece
of wood. Your strength is in the T88, not the brads. The brads are just
for keeping the rib in place until the T88 cures. After nailing the rib
in place, apply light clamping pressure for at least 24 hours. And really,
the clamping probably isn't even necessary. The T88 bonding strength with
just the pressure from the brads is likely more than enough.
Charlie Rubeck used staples from a desk stapler for holding rib gussets in
place until the T88 cured. He would then remove the staples when done.
Here's a "hammer holding" tip for fun - Try holding the brad with needle
nose pliers. You will be able to see better and won't smash your fingers :)
Have fun,
Greg Bacon
Prairie Home, MO
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 6:59 AM, airlion <airlion@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> I will be using a pin nailer with stainless steel pin nails. Cheers,
> Gardiner
>
> --- On Wed, 11/30/11, tdudley@umn.edu <tdudley@umn.edu> wrote:
>
> > From: tdudley@umn.edu <tdudley@umn.edu>
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Nailing ribs to spars
> > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> > Date: Wednesday, November 30, 2011, 10:25 PM
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted
> > by: "tdudley@umn.edu"
> > <tdudley@umn.edu>
> >
> > Last month the question was raised about epoxy vs. nailing
> > the ribs to the spars. It seemed to be that either
> > method was acceptable and the responses given were in favor
> > of nails.
> >
> > I am using the 4-3/4" X 3/4" solid spars. The ribs
> > are built to plans (1/2" wide X 1/4" thick spruce attachment
> > to the spar).
> >
> > I'll ask this question after reviewing the archives and
> > after reading the Bingelis books-- are 20 gauge nails
> > appropriate here or do you use 18 gauge, or does it really
> > even matter since the difference is so slight? To get
> > 3X the thickness of the surface wood (i.e., 1/4"), I plan on
> > using nails 1" in length. I know it's another of my
> > "soft" questions, but I was just interested in knowing what
> > others have done that has worked.
> >
> > Having asked this, I promise I will not ask how to hold the
> > hammer to place the nails.
> >
> > Tom
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359964#359964
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Lists This Month --
> > Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
> > Raiser. Click on
> > out more about
> > Gifts provided
> > www.aeroelectric.com
> > www.buildersbooks.com
> > www.homebuilthelp.com
> > -Matt
> > Dralle, List Admin.
> > Email Forum -
> > FAQ,
> > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> > List Contribution Web Site -
> > -Matt
> > Dralle, List Admin.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--
Greg Bacon
Message 7
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| Subject: | aluminum - stiffening ribs |
Gents,
Where would a guy go to get stiffening ribs rolled into sheet aluminum?
Would a HVAC duct shop be able to do this?
Thanks,
--
Greg Bacon
Prairie Home, MO
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Mike Cuy Video |
Smart and usefull. Thanks.
do not archive
>>> "bubbleboy" <scott.dawson3@bigpond.com> 12/1/2011 2:34 AM >>>
m>
I sent a WAV copy of both his VHS tapes. I converted them to a WAV file so
anybody could watch them around the world.
Scotty
--------
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: aluminum - stiffening ribs |
Greg,
Most sheet metal shops should have a "bead roller" if that is what you refe
ring to.
Just make sure they use the proper bending radius, most don't bother with t
his and your corners will be to sharp.
With resulting fatigue cracks developing in time.
Harbour freight has a bead roller for sale, not cheap anymore.
But this one needs modification to avoid the sharp corners.
BR
Hans
NX15KV
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Bacon <gbacon67@gmail.com>
Sent: Thu, Dec 1, 2011 8:11 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: aluminum - stiffening ribs
Gents,
Where would a guy go to get stiffening ribs rolled into sheet aluminum? Wo
uld a HVAC duct shop be able to do this?
Thanks,
--
Greg Bacon
Prairie Home, MO
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Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Nailing ribs to spars |
Nails are just clamps for applying pressure to a glue join, they are not structural
components.
Nailing ribs in-place is only done to hold them in position for stitching to the
covering. Yes, there is also the weave lacing, top to bottom cap-strips, to
keep the rib from twisting under load too.
After the covering is stitched to the ribs, the ribs should not move. So nailing
or gluing is just acting as a temporary clamp in-away.
The rib cap-strips should fit snug to the spar so it can transfer the load directly
to it. Most metal ribs on older planes are only tacked or screwed to the
spar, again for the same purpose.
A nail just longer enough to hold the rib in-place would be fine.
--------
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360009#360009
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Nailing ribs to spars |
Agree that the nails are only used to prevent the ribs from sliding along the spars.
After the leading edge is attached and the fabric is rib stitched the ribs
will not be able to move along the spars. I used 1 inch long cement coated
brads from Wicks. Also found a nice tool to squeeze the nails into the spar.
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360015#360015
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/glazing_point_plier_149.png
Message 12
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| Subject: | Helping the newbies |
Amen to that! The forum is becoming more useless because of the aforementi
oned posts. I like watching someone start their engine for the first time,
but congratulations should be sent to the individual directly not posted o
n the forum.
Oh, I don't know, I kind of like the friendliness of the guys on this list,
congratulating each other and such. Yea, OK, put "do not archive" at the e
nd of it. I get that. Actually that is a big reason so many here like to ch
eck-in so often. Just looking at it from a human point of view, who among u
s doesn't like to get the public at-a-boys after we accomplish something we
are very proud of? I would like to think this group is kind of special, si
nce we aren't just assembling kits, but creating something from nothing but
drawings on some paper. Then to actually meet at Brodhead every summer, th
at makes it special too.
Ducking for cover....
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: aluminum - stiffening ribs |
Kent White put a stiffening X in the sides of a gas tank he was building
at Oshkosh several years back by using a piece of medium density
fiberboard with grooves routed into it. The router bit was a
3/4=9D round end bit and it was a long narrow X. He then clamped
the aluminum sheet to the fiberboard and used a small air hammer, like
an air muffler chisel, with something like a rivet tool with a plastic
tip that he sells and just went down one groove and then the other.
Slick as cat poop on linoleum!
From: Greg Bacon
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 8:08 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: aluminum - stiffening ribs
Gents,
Where would a guy go to get stiffening ribs rolled into sheet aluminum?
Would a HVAC duct shop be able to do this?
Thanks,
--
Greg Bacon
Prairie Home, MO
Message 14
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|
I have a GN-1 project for sale. Complete rib set built, tail feathers
built, fuselage sides built. All wood necessary to complete, including
spars. All wood came from Aircraft Spruce. Laser cut 4130 fittings.
Continental A-65-8 with carb, mags,hub, and logs, on engine stand. For
details, just e-mail me. I would prefer not to part this out. $4,000.00
for all. I am located in Norwalk, ohio. Thank you, Dan Gaston.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Helping the newbies |
Okay, here's a weird thing.
The Matronics Lists exist in a couple of formats.
There's the old format, which we can subscribe to, and receive regular emails from
Matronics (in either "live" or "digest" formats - your choice) containing
any messages that get posted to the 'Pietenpol-List". These messages get archived.
Any messages posted with the exact phrase "do not archive" in the body of
the message will not get stored in the archive. The various List archives are
searchable using this link:
http://www.matronics.com/search/
But there's also the newer "Forum", which gets updated in real time, and can be
accessed using this link:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewforum.php?f=7
This "Forum" can be accessed anytime, and browsed from the latest message all the
way back to Jan 2006, when the Forum began. The Forum also has a search feature.
The weird thing is that even the messages that contain "do not archive"
are stored in the Forum. For example, do a search for the word "newbies", and
the results will include the message that started this thread - even though it
clearly includes the phrase "do not archive".
But Larry has a good point. The phrase "do not archive" definitely does not get
attached to nearly enough messages that get posted, and, as a result, the archive
is filled with a bunch of "useless" messages that one has to sift through
when looking for relevant info about control horns, or rib gussets, or whatever.
If everyone were to follow the "do not archive" rule, it would make searching
the archive much more fruitful. As far as I can tell, it seems that the Forum
will get cluttered with all of the "useless" messages, whether the rule is
followed or not, but the archive could remain the helpful tool it was intended
to be.
However, I wouldn't say that the List is becoming more "useless". There are a lot
of posts that have no helpful technical info to offer, yet I find very entertaining
to read. Many great friendships have been formed through this group.
We just need to be more judicious with the use of "do not archive" when we post
our inane comments.
Atta boy, Dan.
do not archive
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360030#360030
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Nailing ribs to spars |
Yeah. I used 1/2-inch nails from ACS. If you don't drive them all the way
in, they can be removed after the glue cures. Really no need to. It takes
a million of them to have any weight to speak of.
----- Original Message -----
From: "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 11:58 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Nailing ribs to spars
>
> Nails are just clamps for applying pressure to a glue join, they are not
> structural components.
>
> Nailing ribs in-place is only done to hold them in position for stitching
> to the covering. Yes, there is also the weave lacing, top to bottom
> cap-strips, to keep the rib from twisting under load too.
>
> After the covering is stitched to the ribs, the ribs should not move. So
> nailing or gluing is just acting as a temporary clamp in-away.
>
> The rib cap-strips should fit snug to the spar so it can transfer the load
> directly to it. Most metal ribs on older planes are only tacked or screwed
> to the spar, again for the same purpose.
>
> A nail just longer enough to hold the rib in-place would be fine.
>
> --------
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360009#360009
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | eBay Item Baffle Cowling |
http://www.ebay.com/itm/170739440427?item=170739440427&viewitem=&sspagename
ADME:B:SS:MOTORS:1123&vxp=mtr
Jack
DSM
NX1929T
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Helping the newbies |
What Bill and Dan said, I do enjoy the existing list.
Jack
DSM
NX1929T
DO NOT ARCHIVE!!!!!!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 4:14 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Helping the newbies
Okay, here's a weird thing.
The Matronics Lists exist in a couple of formats.
There's the old format, which we can subscribe to, and receive regular
emails from Matronics (in either "live" or "digest" formats - your choice)
containing any messages that get posted to the 'Pietenpol-List". These
messages get archived. Any messages posted with the exact phrase "do not
archive" in the body of the message will not get stored in the archive. The
various List archives are searchable using this link:
http://www.matronics.com/search/
But there's also the newer "Forum", which gets updated in real time, and can
be accessed using this link:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewforum.php?f=7
This "Forum" can be accessed anytime, and browsed from the latest message
all the way back to Jan 2006, when the Forum began. The Forum also has a
search feature. The weird thing is that even the messages that contain "do
not archive" are stored in the Forum. For example, do a search for the word
"newbies", and the results will include the message that started this thread
- even though it clearly includes the phrase "do not archive".
But Larry has a good point. The phrase "do not archive" definitely does not
get attached to nearly enough messages that get posted, and, as a result,
the archive is filled with a bunch of "useless" messages that one has to
sift through when looking for relevant info about control horns, or rib
gussets, or whatever. If everyone were to follow the "do not archive" rule,
it would make searching the archive much more fruitful. As far as I can
tell, it seems that the Forum will get cluttered with all of the "useless"
messages, whether the rule is followed or not, but the archive could remain
the helpful tool it was intended to be.
However, I wouldn't say that the List is becoming more "useless". There are
a lot of posts that have no helpful technical info to offer, yet I find very
entertaining to read. Many great friendships have been formed through this
group. We just need to be more judicious with the use of "do not archive"
when we post our inane comments.
Atta boy, Dan.
do not archive
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360030#360030
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Helping the newbies |
We all come to the forum for a shot of one thing or another, wether its
enthusiasm, support, advice, look for a build to visit, tools to acquire, show
some pics and yes, to rant, (Thats where I come in). Those are all things
that friends do with one and other.
Sharing congratulations is also part of that equation. I like to
acknowledge the works of other builders and envy the quality of their craftsmanship
and progress and marvel as another one of our own takes to the air. Its the
magic of the Piet and the people than come together to share in that magic
and the dream. There is much more to this than the building of an airplane
as Dan has well stated. We come to share and we come to learn, laugh and
hard time each other and very often we come away with a new friend or 2.
That's who we are and what we do at least for me.
We have some interesting personalities that appear on occasion as experts
and self proclaimed experts along with the ball busting know it alls who
know little. One thing you will not find is someone giving advise without the
best intentions in the forefront. We all, and I speak freely when I say
mean well and wish each other great success in support of each other. I am
not too certain where there is a better bunch of folks burning up the all
important band width than here. I hate you all and mean that in the nicest
possible way and I look forward to seeing all of you in Brodhead this July.
Brodhead is our time to celebrate each other and our ongoing
accomplishments in search of the magic. So Please
Do not archive
Play nice , support each other and if you feel it is necessary to support
someone's progress publicly, then by all means please do so it is important
to receive the support from our peers.
Do not archive that either. Go forth and make saw dust and when you awaken
on Christmas morning and notice your tools gone, well you know you have
been visited by shhhhhushhhhh Santa Clarkle.
Do Not Archive,
John
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Helping the newbies |
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 9:05 PM, <AMsafetyC@aol.com> wrote:
> **
> <snip> along with the ball busting know it alls who know little.
>
But if you know you know little, does that self-realization make up for
something? Oh, and I prefer the nomenclature of "nut-cracking", in the
spirit of the upcoming season.
> I hate you all and mean that in the nicest possible way and I look forward
> to seeing all of you in Brodhead this July.
>
And hate does get administered at times, guilty I am. But it's kind of like
calling Ken Heide ugly. I can say Ken's ugly, but if you are an outsider
you don't dare say Ken is ugly. I'll fight you over that. (no really, I
will)
Brodhead is our time to celebrate each other and our ongoing
> accomplishments in search of the magic. So Please
>
Brodhead is a magical time. A time for scotch, a time for encased meats, a
time for old (or getting older) white men to commiserate around our
favorite airplane. A time for the black and yellow German to wander the
grounds and throw holy water upon those that choose to spurn the word of
Pietenpol and Hoopman. (he has the Dead Pietenpol Scrolls sealed in a jar,
do not question him)
Do not archive that either. Go forth and make saw dust and when you awaken
> on Christmas morning and notice your tools gone, well you know you have
> been visited by shhhhhushhhhh Santa Clarkle.
>
Clarkle Mania 2011? That, or you shot your eye out...
do not archive
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