Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:48 AM - Re: A new Piet takes to the air (womenfly2)
2. 07:02 AM - Off topic frivolity and edification request (Amsafetyc)
3. 07:05 AM - Re: A new Piet takes to the air (Amsafetyc)
4. 08:28 AM - CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap seal. (tools)
5. 08:29 AM - Re: Off topic frivolity and edification request (KM Heide CPO/FAAOP)
6. 09:06 AM - Re: Was A-65 exhaust gasket, now brass exhaust nuts (Andrew Eldredge)
7. 10:00 AM - Re: Was A-65 exhaust gasket, now brass exhaust nuts (Dan Yocum)
8. 10:19 AM - Re: Was A-65 exhaust gasket, now brass exhaust nuts (Andrew Eldredge)
9. 11:38 AM - Re: CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap seal. (Dick N)
10. 01:31 PM - Fw: Hardware (C N Campbell)
11. 01:48 PM - Re: CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap seal. (C N Campbell)
12. 01:58 PM - Re: Fw: Hardware (Jim Boyer)
13. 04:14 PM - Re: Off topic frivolity and edification request (Gboothe5)
14. 04:38 PM - Re: Off topic frivolity and edification request (Amsafetyc)
15. 05:19 PM - Re: CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap seal. (tools)
16. 05:51 PM - Re: Fw: Hardware (C N Campbell)
17. 06:10 PM - What Really Happened to Air France 447 (Jack Phillips)
18. 06:26 PM - Re: Hardware (Bill Church)
19. 06:48 PM - Re: Re: Hardware (Gboothe5)
20. 06:55 PM - Re: Re: Hardware (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: A new Piet takes to the air |
Awesome! Congratulations.
BTW, I flew an old clipped wing Cub at Sky Manor Airport years ago. A friend on
mine was also having a Stomp rebuilt there. .... the memories.
--------
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360444#360444
Message 2
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| Subject: | Off topic frivolity and edification request |
Ryan
I am not too certain about the continued reference made about Ken Heide and e
ven more perplexed ( having not grown up on a farm ) regarding ferris bovine
is that any relationship to Ferris Bueler sp another Illinois personality. I
never knew cows were magnetic or is there some sort of animal magnetism. I a
m cornfused I am almost certain that although these comments pose no enhance
ment to the collective Piet community ( non 4H club members)I suspect there a
re others equally perplexed by the notion of magnetic cows,brass studs and t
he like.
Do not archive but please advise on or off list yet I am certain Ken may als
o appreciate the rationale for the continued reference.
My apologies for wasting everyone's valuable time on such frivolity
John
Please do not archive
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 7, 2011, at 10:29 PM, Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com> wrote:
> As an aside, I'm not just pissing in the wind in the way that Ken Heide as
suredly hates ;)
>
> I spent some time in an engine shop reworking cylinders....they are not br
ass. :)
>
> Ryan
>
> do not archive
>
> On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 9:26 PM, Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com> wrote:
> They ain't brass, that's for sure. But to tell, I would suggest a cow magn
et. :P
>
> My Dad has had one on the side of the toolbox for years.....not good for m
uch beyond, well, magneting a cow. Usually... :P
>
> do not archive
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 8:04 PM, Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> wro
te:
> Perhaps they are cadmium plated, which has a golden color. They=99d
better be steel. Are they magnetic?
>
>
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> NX899JP
>
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
>
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li
st-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Eldredge
> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 7:06 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Was A-65 exhaust gasket, now brass exhaust nu
ts
>
>
>
> The replacement Studs I have have the appearance of brass. I was suprised
by this, as none of the existing studs look like that. I figured it was ig
norance on my part. I'm sure there is something to this that I don't know s
till..
>
> On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 4:37 PM, <helspersew@aol.com> wrote:
>
> Well, I thought I did. Dan, I didn't think about the different expansion r
ates as a method of security. I will make sure in the future. Also, I'll put
on a bit-o-rtv just for good luck.
>
>
>
> Dan Helsper
>
> Puryear, TN
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dan Yocum <yocum137@gmail.com>
> To: pietenpol-list <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wed, Dec 7, 2011 12:56 pm
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Was A-65 exhaust gasket, now brass exhaust nu
ts
>
>
>
>
> On 12/07/2011 12:36 PM, helspersew@aol.com
> wrote:
> >
> > Speaking of exhaust gaskets:
> > I have lost, on more than one occasion, some of those brass exhaust
> > hold-on nuts. Is there any kind of goo that can be put on those
> > threads to keep those nuts on there in that very hot location?
> > Dan Helsper
> > Puryear, TN
>
> Wait. What? Those nuts are supposed to be self tightening since the
> rate of expansion of the brass is different (greater) than steel. Did
> you torque them correctly?
>
> I think the studs on my exhaust bolts have holes in them, so I could use
> safety wire. And I bet a little gob of red RTV stuck in the threads
> wouldn't hurt and it would still come off pretty easily should I need to
> take the pipes off.
>
> Dan
>
>
> _blank>www.aeroelectric.com
> /" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
> =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> p://forums.matronics.com
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
>
> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
> --
> Andrew Eldredge
> Provo, UT
>
>
>
> www.buildersbooks.com
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
>
==========================
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>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: A new Piet takes to the air |
Nice job Don. Good looking great sounding piet , fly safe. I am looking forward
to seeing you fly her into Mecca this July
John
Do not archive
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 8, 2011, at 12:18 AM, "Bill Church" <billspiet@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> Glad to see the Forum back up and running, after being out of service for about
5 days.
>
> Just found a series of new video clips (filmed just last week) showing Don Sweeney's
new Funk powered Piet. Sounds pretty cool, and looks pretty darn nice.
The sound of a Model A without the radiator in the face.
>
> There are about 19 videos altogether, but here are a few (start-up and take-off
and a nice landing on the grass)
>
> http://youtu.be/o_SpsHHHvHM
> http://youtu.be/6BjV4CmAndg
> http://youtu.be/iJ-kSLzOInU
>
> Well done, Don!
>
> Bill C.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360362#360362
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap seal. |
Finally got a set of scales and weighed the Piet. The goal is to determine if
the CG would move too far forward when my 180lb gets replaced by my son's 130lbs
to fly it from the back with me in the front.
I was told that the front seat essentially doesn't change the cg at all, which
seems to be the case.
Anyway, here's what I found and am curious if others have had similar results (as
this is the FIRST time I've ever done weight and balance).
Because it was practical, rather than do empty weight and balance and then all
the additives, we just weighed it in the various configurations.
We propped the plane up level, that is the top longeron of the fuse parallel to
the ground, which was essentially level (using a simple bubble level) inside
a concrete floor hangar.
I'm using the leading edge as the reference point. The mains are 4" back, the
tailwheel is 165.5" back from there. I measured straight to the ground, with
the plane propped level as described (using a plumb bob to transfer the leading
edge and tailwheel points).
Empty, the plane is 810 lbs, ready to fly minus crew. I'm 180, Scott is 130, so
gross is 1120.
With Scott in the front and me in the back, there's 100lbs on the tail, and 1020
on the mains.
So: [(100 lbs x 165.5 in) + (1020 lbs x 4 in)] / 1120 lbs = 18.4 in
With me in the front, Scott in the back, there's 85 lbs on the tail and 1035 on
the mains.
So: [(85 lbs x 165.5 in) + (1035 lbs x 4 in)] / 1120 lbs = 16.3 in
Since I used the leading edge as reference, then that figure is where the CG is
relative to it. Best I can tell, the CG range is 15 to 20 in, so I'm fine either
way, right?
Lastly, Dick said this plane was tail heavy when he built it, not surprising as
it's got an A65 on the short fuse. He moved the wing back 4 1/2" and added a
small battery and header tank (right behind the firewall) to get it in balance.
With just me in the plane, I calculated a 19.something CG. It would make
sense Dick added just enough weight up front to get it safe, which would leave
me a lot of leeway in removing weight from the back.
I was surprised that it only shifted by 2 in. I'm curious if others have had similar
results. Has anyone had experience moving the CG that far and how much
difference did they notice in flying characteristics?
Dick had the elevator gap taped. That tape failed on the way home so I've been
flying it without. I notice a difference in the flare, but not a lot. The tape
was on the bottom on the elevators/stab. It seems to me that the tape should
be on the top, as there is higher pressure on the top, than the bottom. With
the tape on the bottom, the pressure difference would tend to want to pull
the tape "up". If it's on the top, the pressure difference would want to push
the tape down, which seems like it would stay on there longer. Any comments
or experiences? Seems like the gap seal would make a larger difference with
a more forward CG.
Thanks,
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360458#360458
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Off topic frivolity and edification request |
Oh please let me respond!...
=C2-
To John and the many others whom=C2-I have enjoyed some great conversatio
ns and contributions to my many adventures as a builder and pilot; I thank
you and your friendship kept my passion for flying strong everyday!
=C2-
As for the Pietenpol community, feel proud as you have lost yet another bui
lder from your site and your club.
=C2-
I lived 7 miles from Brodhead, WI for several years and enjoy the many frie
nds over the years. From taking my first flight lessons from Ted Davis to s
pending time roaming through all the hanger on a Saturday afternoon, It has
been and always will be a memory to cherish. I have meet many builders com
e through Brodhead yet never have I taken the abuse from so many on this li
st who no nothing about my background. Thick skinned, yes ~ being bashed fo
r a sense of humor or a "different approached" ~ priceless.
=C2-
I have decided to sell my pietenpol and all the items in building it.=C2-
Unfortunately, this list has taken a downward swing with a few=C2-out wei
ghting the many. I find it amazing how many have biased opinions and self s
erving agendas with negative comments yet=C2-purchased their airplanes or
never received the entire story of a build, rather a snap shot in time. I
have studied and visited with Dick N. about his wooden plane and copied it
with a few changes to suit me and my size. I loved his wooded fuse and want
ed to mimic his build and in doing so, was so criticized to the point of st
upidity! I was amazed at the community flame throwing yet only a few knew t
he back ground of my build and who I was using as my mentor; an engineer an
d experienced builder belonging to my EAA Chapter.
=C2-
For those who are still seeking the fiberglass Bernie Pietenpol nose cone,
there are no more. I have destroyed the mold. For those who have purchased
one from me, you now have a highly sought after valuable nose cone as that
was taken off the original mold from Bernie and I still receive call to pur
chase them monthly. Thank you Dan in MPLS for supplying me the original mol
d.
=C2-
In closing, I wish a few the very best. As for those coming into the list,
lurk and be silent. Never disclose your ideas as many have box glasses and
offer slams instead of valued opinions. The archives offer very little so I
suggest find a few members you can communicate with and deal directly! Spa
re yourself the agony and restless comments. Remember this: when you have b
een screwed you know 500 people. Get something done right and you know 3 pe
ople. I am sure the flame throwing will continue and my name, even though I
have merely ask questions to the list, will be used in vain and=C2-ridic
uled time and time again. Merry Christmas I say, as you have given me an op
portunity to leave and bestow your groups condescending attitude on another
soon to be "builder." And=C2-you all=C2-think this group is=C2-bette
r than the other on the list.....
=C2-
God Bless & Merry Christmas
=C2-
=C2-KMHeide
--- On Thu, 12/8/11, Amsafetyc <amsafetyc@aol.com> wrote:
From: Amsafetyc <amsafetyc@aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Off topic frivolity and edification request
Ryan
I am not too certain about the continued reference made about Ken Heide and
even more perplexed ( having not grown up on a farm ) regarding ferris bov
ine is that any relationship to Ferris Bueler sp another Illinois personali
ty. I never knew cows were magnetic or is there some sort of animal magneti
sm. I am cornfused I am almost certain that although these comments pose no
enhancement to the collective Piet community ( non 4H club members)I suspe
ct there are others equally perplexed by the notion of magnetic cows,brass
studs and the like.
Do not archive but please advise on or off list yet I am certain Ken may al
so appreciate the rationale for the continued reference.=C2-
My apologies for wasting everyone's valuable time on such frivolity
John
Please do not archive
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 7, 2011, at 10:29 PM, Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com> wrote:
As an aside, I'm not just pissing in the wind in the way that Ken Heide ass
uredly hates ;)
I spent some time in an engine shop reworking cylinders....they are not bra
ss. =C2-:)
Ryan
do not archive
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 9:26 PM, Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com> wrote:
They ain't brass, that's for sure. But to tell, I would suggest a cow magne
t. =C2-:P
My Dad has had one on the side of the toolbox for years.....not good for mu
ch beyond, well, magneting a cow. Usually... =C2-:P
do not archive
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 8:04 PM, Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> wrot
e:
Perhaps they are cadmium plated, which has a golden color.=C2- They
=99d better be steel.=C2- Are they magnetic?
=C2-
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
=C2-
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Eldredge
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Was A-65 exhaust gasket, now brass exhaust nut
s
=C2-
The replacement Studs I have have the appearance of brass.=C2- I was supr
ised by this, as none of the existing studs look like that.=C2- I figured
it was ignorance on my part.=C2- I'm sure there is something to this tha
t I don't know still..
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 4:37 PM, <helspersew@aol.com> wrote:
Well, I thought I did. Dan, I didn't=C2-think about=C2-the different ex
pansion rates as a method of security. I will make sure in the future. Also
, I'll put on a bit-o-rtv just for good luck.
=C2-
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Yocum <yocum137@gmail.com>
Sent: Wed, Dec 7, 2011 12:56 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Was A-65 exhaust gasket, now brass exhaust nut
s
=C2-=C2-On 12/07/2011 12:36 PM, helspersew@aol.com=C2-wrote:>=C2->
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- Speaking of exhaust gaskets:>=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
- I have lost, on more than one occasion, some of those brass exhaust>=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2- hold-on nuts. Is there any kind of goo that can be pu
t on those>=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- threads to keep those nuts on there in
that very hot location?>=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- Dan Helsper>=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2- Puryear, TN=C2-Wait.=C2- What?=C2- Those nuts are suppos
ed to be self tightening since the rate of expansion of the brass is differ
ent (greater) than steel.=C2- Did you torque them correctly?=C2-I think
the studs on my exhaust bolts have holes in them, so I could use safety wi
re.=C2- And I bet a little gob of red RTV stuck in the threads wouldn't h
urt and it would still come off pretty easily should I need to take the pip
es off.=C2-Dan=C2-=C2-_blank>www.aeroelectric.com/"
target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.comblank>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution" target=_blank>http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listp://forums.matronics.comblank>http://www.matro
nics.com/contribution=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-_blank">www.aeroelectric.com.com" target="_blank">www.builder
sbooks.com="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com
/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenp
ol-Listtp://forums.matronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on=C2-
--
Andrew Eldredge
Provo, UT=C2-=C2-www.buildersbooks.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.co
mhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution=C2-
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=========
ctric.com
>www.buildersbooks.com
uilthelp.com
matronics.com/contribution
=========
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
=========
cs.com
=========
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Was A-65 exhaust gasket, now brass exhaust nuts |
At second look, I think that's cad plating... Remarkable how similar that
can look.
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 7:04 PM, Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>wrote
:
> ** ** **
>
> Perhaps they are cadmium plated, which has a golden color. They=92d bett
er
> be steel. Are they magnetic?****
>
> ** **
>
> Jack Phillips****
>
> NX899JP****
>
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia****
>
> ** **
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Andrew Eldredge
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 07, 2011 7:06 PM
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Was A-65 exhaust gasket, now brass exhaust
> nuts****
>
> ** **
>
> The replacement Studs I have have the appearance of brass. I was suprise
d
> by this, as none of the existing studs look like that. I figured it was
> ignorance on my part. I'm sure there is something to this that I don't
> know still..****
>
> On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 4:37 PM, <helspersew@aol.com> wrote:****
>
> Well, I thought I did. Dan, I didn't think about the different expansion
> rates as a method of security. I will make sure in the future. Also, I'll
> put on a bit-o-rtv just for good luck.****
>
> ****
>
> Dan Helsper****
>
> ****Puryear**, **TN********
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dan Yocum <yocum137@gmail.com>
> To: pietenpol-list <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wed, Dec 7, 2011 12:56 pm
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Was A-65 exhaust gasket, now brass exhaust
> nuts****
>
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> On 12/07/2011 12:36 PM, helspersew@aol.com****
>
> wrote:****
>
> >** **
>
> > Speaking of exhaust gaskets:****
>
> > I have lost, on more than one occasion, some of those brass exhaust
****
>
> > hold-on nuts. Is there any kind of goo that can be put on those****
>
> > threads to keep those nuts on there in that very hot location?****
>
> > Dan Helsper****
>
> > ****Puryear**, **TN********
>
> ** **
>
> Wait. What? Those nuts are supposed to be self tightening since the ***
*
>
> rate of expansion of the brass is different (greater) than steel. Did **
**
>
> you torque them correctly?****
>
> ** **
>
> I think the studs on my exhaust bolts have holes in them, so I could use
****
>
> safety wire. And I bet a little gob of red RTV stuck in the threads ****
>
> wouldn't hurt and it would still come off pretty easily should I need to
****
>
> take the pipes off.****
>
> ** **
>
> Dan****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> _blank>www.aeroelectric.com****
>
> /" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com****
>
> =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com****
>
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution****
>
> " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List****
>
> p://forums.matronics.com****
>
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *_blank">www.aeroelectric.com*
>
> *.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com*
>
> *="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com*
>
> *_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> *" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
>
> *tp://forums.matronics.com*
>
> *_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
>
> --
> Andrew Eldredge
> ****Provo**, **UT********
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *www.buildersbooks.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
--
Andrew Eldredge
Provo, UT
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Was A-65 exhaust gasket, now brass exhaust nuts |
On 12/07/2011 03:57 PM, Andrew Eldredge wrote:
> In my case, I ordered a new stud, which was brass as well. As the stud
> expands faster than the steel, it would loosen. I suppose the idea
> then, is to torque them down while they're hot, then they will tighten
> as they cool. Wikipedia has the coefficients at 19e-6 and 10.8e-6 for
> brass and steel, respectively, Nearly a factor of 2. I'm glad we
> started talking about this.
Well, the nuts will expand in thickness (as well as circumference) and
that increase in thickness is what tightens (or should tighten!) the nut
to the exhaust flange every time it gets hot.
As for this nut, I get a little loose with some brats, beer, and scotch,
but that's different problem. ;-)
Cheers,
Dan
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Was A-65 exhaust gasket, now brass exhaust nuts |
Ahh, that's nice, It even has the section on the Stromberg carb and the
SF4RN mags (I'll have to look again, but I think those are indeed my mags)
That should prove most helpful. Thank you..
do not archive.
On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 10:57 AM, Dan Yocum <yocum@fnal.gov> wrote:
>
>
> On 12/07/2011 03:57 PM, Andrew Eldredge wrote:
>
>> In my case, I ordered a new stud, which was brass as well. As the stud
>> expands faster than the steel, it would loosen. I suppose the idea
>> then, is to torque them down while they're hot, then they will tighten
>> as they cool. Wikipedia has the coefficients at 19e-6 and 10.8e-6 for
>> brass and steel, respectively, Nearly a factor of 2. I'm glad we
>> started talking about this.
>>
>
> Well, the nuts will expand in thickness (as well as circumference) and
> that increase in thickness is what tightens (or should tighten!) the nut to
> the exhaust flange every time it gets hot.
>
> As for this nut, I get a little loose with some brats, beer, and scotch,
> but that's different problem. ;-)
>
> Cheers,
> Dan
>
> --
> Dan Yocum
> Fermilab 630.840.6509
> yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
> "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
>
>
--
Andrew Eldredge
Provo, UT
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap seal. |
Hey Mike
Are you really sure on the empty weight? Did you drain all the fuel out of
the nose tank? I recall the weight empty at 685lbs. Im just wondering.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "tools" <n0kkj@yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 10:25 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap
seal.
>
> Finally got a set of scales and weighed the Piet. The goal is to
> determine if the CG would move too far forward when my 180lb gets replaced
> by my son's 130lbs to fly it from the back with me in the front.
>
> I was told that the front seat essentially doesn't change the cg at all,
> which seems to be the case.
>
> Anyway, here's what I found and am curious if others have had similar
> results (as this is the FIRST time I've ever done weight and balance).
>
> Because it was practical, rather than do empty weight and balance and then
> all the additives, we just weighed it in the various configurations.
>
> We propped the plane up level, that is the top longeron of the fuse
> parallel to the ground, which was essentially level (using a simple bubble
> level) inside a concrete floor hangar.
>
> I'm using the leading edge as the reference point. The mains are 4" back,
> the tailwheel is 165.5" back from there. I measured straight to the
> ground, with the plane propped level as described (using a plumb bob to
> transfer the leading edge and tailwheel points).
>
> Empty, the plane is 810 lbs, ready to fly minus crew. I'm 180, Scott is
> 130, so gross is 1120.
>
> With Scott in the front and me in the back, there's 100lbs on the tail,
> and 1020 on the mains.
>
> So: [(100 lbs x 165.5 in) + (1020 lbs x 4 in)] / 1120 lbs = 18.4 in
>
> With me in the front, Scott in the back, there's 85 lbs on the tail and
> 1035 on the mains.
>
> So: [(85 lbs x 165.5 in) + (1035 lbs x 4 in)] / 1120 lbs = 16.3 in
>
> Since I used the leading edge as reference, then that figure is where the
> CG is relative to it. Best I can tell, the CG range is 15 to 20 in, so
> I'm fine either way, right?
>
> Lastly, Dick said this plane was tail heavy when he built it, not
> surprising as it's got an A65 on the short fuse. He moved the wing back 4
> 1/2" and added a small battery and header tank (right behind the firewall)
> to get it in balance. With just me in the plane, I calculated a
> 19.something CG. It would make sense Dick added just enough weight up
> front to get it safe, which would leave me a lot of leeway in removing
> weight from the back.
>
> I was surprised that it only shifted by 2 in. I'm curious if others have
> had similar results. Has anyone had experience moving the CG that far and
> how much difference did they notice in flying characteristics?
>
> Dick had the elevator gap taped. That tape failed on the way home so I've
> been flying it without. I notice a difference in the flare, but not a
> lot. The tape was on the bottom on the elevators/stab. It seems to me
> that the tape should be on the top, as there is higher pressure on the
> top, than the bottom. With the tape on the bottom, the pressure
> difference would tend to want to pull the tape "up". If it's on the top,
> the pressure difference would want to push the tape down, which seems like
> it would stay on there longer. Any comments or experiences? Seems like
> the gap seal would make a larger difference with a more forward CG.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tools
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360458#360458
>
>
>
Message 10
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I received this message from Cloudcars (Prop manufacturers) and they
asked that I forward this to our "chat group.''
----- Original Message -----
From: Jay & Carmen
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: Hardware
Chuck~
If you=99re talking about a Crush Plate.... ALL WOOD PROPS should
have a crush plate.
NEVER bolt up or even turn up a wood prop without a crushplate!!!
The thickness of the crushplate will depend on the type of metal used to
make it...
Could be anywhere from 3/16=9D to 1/2=9D, depending on the
material it=99s made from.
Naturally the steel would be on the thinner side of the figure.
Try Aircraft Spruce, Wicks or maybe Barnstormers.... you have a SAE1
bolt pattern.
Please show this to the other guys on your chat group, to make sure
NO-ONE is trying to
bolt up WOOD props without a crushplate.
Jay
From: C N Campbell
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 12:46 PM
Subject: Fw: Hardware
Carmen, Roger and I have been discussing the type and length of bolts
for my Cloudcars prop and he sent me the E-mail which I am forwarding to
you. Do I need a face plate on my prop. If so, how thick should it be
and where do I get one? Chuck .
----- Original Message -----
From: Rogpoldodson@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 8:43 AM
Subject: Re: Hardware
Chuck . Something else you might want to take into account is if you
need a face plate on that prop. Check with the builder of the prop. If
so you will need to take into account the thickness of the plate. Rog.
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
12/08/11
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap seal. |
I figure that 125 # is fuel. He says its empty ready to fly at 810.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick N" <horzpool@goldengate.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap
seal.
>
> Hey Mike
> Are you really sure on the empty weight? Did you drain all the fuel out
> of the nose tank? I recall the weight empty at 685lbs. Im just
> wondering.
> Dick
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "tools" <n0kkj@yahoo.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 10:25 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap
> seal.
>
>
>>
>> Finally got a set of scales and weighed the Piet. The goal is to
>> determine if the CG would move too far forward when my 180lb gets
>> replaced by my son's 130lbs to fly it from the back with me in the front.
>>
>> I was told that the front seat essentially doesn't change the cg at all,
>> which seems to be the case.
>>
>> Anyway, here's what I found and am curious if others have had similar
>> results (as this is the FIRST time I've ever done weight and balance).
>>
>> Because it was practical, rather than do empty weight and balance and
>> then all the additives, we just weighed it in the various configurations.
>>
>> We propped the plane up level, that is the top longeron of the fuse
>> parallel to the ground, which was essentially level (using a simple
>> bubble level) inside a concrete floor hangar.
>>
>> I'm using the leading edge as the reference point. The mains are 4"
>> back, the tailwheel is 165.5" back from there. I measured straight to
>> the ground, with the plane propped level as described (using a plumb bob
>> to transfer the leading edge and tailwheel points).
>>
>> Empty, the plane is 810 lbs, ready to fly minus crew. I'm 180, Scott is
>> 130, so gross is 1120.
>>
>> With Scott in the front and me in the back, there's 100lbs on the tail,
>> and 1020 on the mains.
>>
>> So: [(100 lbs x 165.5 in) + (1020 lbs x 4 in)] / 1120 lbs = 18.4 in
>>
>> With me in the front, Scott in the back, there's 85 lbs on the tail and
>> 1035 on the mains.
>>
>> So: [(85 lbs x 165.5 in) + (1035 lbs x 4 in)] / 1120 lbs = 16.3 in
>>
>> Since I used the leading edge as reference, then that figure is where the
>> CG is relative to it. Best I can tell, the CG range is 15 to 20 in, so
>> I'm fine either way, right?
>>
>> Lastly, Dick said this plane was tail heavy when he built it, not
>> surprising as it's got an A65 on the short fuse. He moved the wing back
>> 4 1/2" and added a small battery and header tank (right behind the
>> firewall) to get it in balance. With just me in the plane, I calculated
>> a 19.something CG. It would make sense Dick added just enough weight up
>> front to get it safe, which would leave me a lot of leeway in removing
>> weight from the back.
>>
>> I was surprised that it only shifted by 2 in. I'm curious if others have
>> had similar results. Has anyone had experience moving the CG that far
>> and how much difference did they notice in flying characteristics?
>>
>> Dick had the elevator gap taped. That tape failed on the way home so
>> I've been flying it without. I notice a difference in the flare, but not
>> a lot. The tape was on the bottom on the elevators/stab. It seems to me
>> that the tape should be on the top, as there is higher pressure on the
>> top, than the bottom. With the tape on the bottom, the pressure
>> difference would tend to want to pull the tape "up". If it's on the top,
>> the pressure difference would want to push the tape down, which seems
>> like it would stay on there longer. Any comments or experiences? Seems
>> like the gap seal would make a larger difference with a more forward CG.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Tools
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360458#360458
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: Hardware |
Hi Chuck,
I got my Aluminium crush plate from Aircraft Spruce and Specialty.
Jim B.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Off topic frivolity and edification request |
John,
Just as point of clarification (my apologies to the List for the subject
matter), by my recollection from my dead rancher grandfather, it is not
unheard of for a cow to swallow some unwanted, ferris object, causing
imaginable stomach issues. A long glove, a magnet and the south end of
the cow complete the story.
Gary from Cool
Do not archive
DO NOT ARCHIVE
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Amsafetyc
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 7:00 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Off topic frivolity and edification request
.. perplexed ( having not grown up on a farm ) I
never knew cows were magnetic or is there some sort of animal
magnetism
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Off topic frivolity and edification request |
Thank you and now we have the rest of the story. I suppose the south exit as
an entrance is similar to answer the question of" what do you call a man wi
th his hand and arm up a horses ass?"
Answer " an Amish mechanic"
Bwhahahaha
And for all of the relevant discussion and words of bovine wisdom
Please
Do not archive
Thanks Gary for the enlightenment
John
Btw if by chance the metallic piece obstructs that rear exit portal does the
removal result in the abundant relief of pressurized material and what happ
ens to the farmer during that immediate release? Hmmmmmmmmm? Glad I was rais
ed in the city
John
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 8, 2011, at 7:11 PM, "Gboothe5" <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
> John,
>
> Just as point of clarification (my apologies to the List for the subject m
atter), by my recollection from my dead rancher grandfather, it is not unhea
rd of for a cow to swallow some unwanted, ferris object, causing imaginable s
tomach issues. A long glove, a magnet and the south end of the cow complete t
he story.
>
> Gary from Cool
> Do not archive
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li
st-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Amsafetyc
> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 7:00 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Off topic frivolity and edification request
>
>
> .. perplexed ( having not grown up on a farm ) I never k
new cows were magnetic or is there some sort of animal magnetism
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap seal. |
Hey Dick,
Yep, sure about the weight. However, I did NOT drain anything. That 810 is with
the radio, gps, seat cushions, a couple candy bars, full bag of fuel, oil,
EVERYTHING but occupants, so I figure your 685 is probably right.
Tools, who had a beautiful day but had to help a bud, and couldn't go flying, was
a little depressed...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360489#360489
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: Hardware |
Yeah, Jim. I had originally checked ACS for a "faceplate" and they
didn't have anything in that catgegory. Then when I got the note from
Cloudcars I looked up crush plate and there it was. I'll probably order
one and all the mounting hardware tomorrow. Chuck
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Boyer
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 4:54 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: Hardware
Hi Chuck,
I got my Aluminium crush plate from Aircraft Spruce and Specialty.
Jim B.
Message 17
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| Subject: | What Really Happened to Air France 447 |
Not at all Pietenpol related, but interesting nontheless.
Jack Phillips
This article published a couple days ago. Amazing. All of this information
may have been out for some time, but this article puts the whole picture
together well, which I did not fully understand before now.
www.popularmechanics.com/technology/aviation/crashes/what-really-happened-ab
oard-air-france-447-6611877
Message 18
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For those who use the Forum, rather than the email version of the Pietenpol List,
Chuck's message likely didn't make any sense, because the message he tried
to forward did not get posted. I have retrieved it from the Matronics site and
attached it below:
----- Original Message -----
From: Jay & Carmen
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: Hardware
Chuck~
If you're talking about a Crush Plate.... ALL WOOD PROPS should
have a crush plate.
NEVER bolt up or even turn up a wood prop without a crushplate!!!
The thickness of the crushplate will depend on the type of metal used to
make it...
Could be anywhere from 3/16" to 1/2", depending on the
material it's made from.
Naturally the steel would be on the thinner side of the figure.
Try Aircraft Spruce, Wicks or maybe Barnstormers.... you have a SAE1
bolt pattern.
Please show this to the other guys on your chat group, to make sure
NO-ONE is trying to
bolt up WOOD props without a crushplate.
Jay
From: C N Campbell
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 12:46 PM
Subject: Fw: Hardware
Carmen, Roger and I have been discussing the type and length of bolts
for my Cloudcars prop and he sent me the E-mail which I am forwarding to
you. Do I need a face plate on my prop. If so, how thick should it be
and where do I get one? Chuck .
----- Original Message -----
From: Rogpoldodson@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 8:43 AM
Subject: Re: Hardware
Chuck . Something else you might want to take into account is if you
need a face plate on that prop. Check with the builder of the prop. If
so you will need to take into account the thickness of the plate. Rog.
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
12/08/11
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360492#360492
Message 19
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|
Homemade crush plate...1/4" 6061.
Gary from Cool
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 6:24 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hardware
For those who use the Forum, rather than the email version of the Pietenpol
List, Chuck's message likely didn't make any sense, because the message he
tried to forward did not get posted. I have retrieved it from the Matronics
site and attached it below:
----- Original Message -----
From: Jay & Carmen
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: Hardware
Chuck~
If you're talking about a Crush Plate.... ALL WOOD PROPS should
have a crush plate.
NEVER bolt up or even turn up a wood prop without a crushplate!!!
The thickness of the crushplate will depend on the type of metal used to
make it...
Could be anywhere from 3/16" to 1/2", depending on the
material it's made from.
Naturally the steel would be on the thinner side of the figure.
Try Aircraft Spruce, Wicks or maybe Barnstormers.... you have a SAE1
bolt pattern.
Please show this to the other guys on your chat group, to make sure
NO-ONE is trying to
bolt up WOOD props without a crushplate.
Jay
From: C N Campbell
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 12:46 PM
Subject: Fw: Hardware
Carmen, Roger and I have been discussing the type and length of bolts
for my Cloudcars prop and he sent me the E-mail which I am forwarding to
you. Do I need a face plate on my prop. If so, how thick should it be
and where do I get one? Chuck .
----- Original Message -----
From: Rogpoldodson@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 8:43 AM
Subject: Re: Hardware
Chuck . Something else you might want to take into account is if you
need a face plate on that prop. Check with the builder of the prop. If
so you will need to take into account the thickness of the plate. Rog.
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
12/08/11
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360492#360492
Message 20
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Gary,
Thats some good looking ring gear
John
Do not archive
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