Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Wed 01/18/12


Total Messages Posted: 32



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:18 AM - Re: Logo's (Gboothe5)
     2. 05:03 AM - Re: Logo's (helspersew@aol.com)
     3. 05:07 AM - Re: Logo's (helspersew@aol.com)
     4. 05:21 AM - Re: Logo's (Gboothe5)
     5. 05:23 AM - Re: carlson aircraft aluminum struts (helspersew@aol.com)
     6. 05:45 AM - Re: Logo's (Gboothe5)
     7. 05:45 AM - Re: carlson aircraft aluminum struts (Greg Bacon)
     8. 05:57 AM - Re: Logo's (Jerry Dotson)
     9. 08:17 AM - do you guys doubt your work somtimes? (Matthijs de Groot)
    10. 08:31 AM - Re: do you guys doubt your work somtimes? (Andrew Eldredge)
    11. 08:38 AM - Re: do you guys doubt your work somtimes? (Jack Phillips)
    12. 10:12 AM - Re: do you guys doubt your work somtimes? (tools)
    13. 10:18 AM - Re: do you guys doubt your work somtimes? (Ben Charvet)
    14. 10:27 AM - Speaking of "improvements", or retrogrades... tail (tools)
    15. 10:32 AM - tailfeather flimsy feeling---that's perfect Matthijs, they are flimsy! (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP])
    16. 10:38 AM - how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend when you tighten your fabric (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP])
    17. 12:47 PM - I cannot not build this plane (RickBright)
    18. 12:59 PM - Re: I cannot not build this plane (Gary Boothe)
    19. 12:59 PM - Re: carlson aircraft aluminum struts (Barry Davis)
    20. 01:01 PM - Re: I cannot not build this plane (Kip and Beth Gardner)
    21. 01:02 PM - Re: Logo's (RickBright)
    22. 01:08 PM - Re: carlson aircraft aluminum struts (helspersew@aol.com)
    23. 01:09 PM - Re: Re: Logo's (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
    24. 02:06 PM - Re: I cannot not build this plane (Jim Markle)
    25. 03:43 PM - 8 minute video segment from EAA on the Pietenpol Air Camper (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP])
    26. 04:10 PM - Re: carlson aircraft aluminum struts (airlion)
    27. 06:26 PM - Re: carlson aircraft aluminum struts (TOM MICHELLE BRANT)
    28. 07:43 PM - Re: tailfeather flimsy feeling---that's perfect Matthijs, they a (K5YAC)
    29. 07:50 PM - Re: I cannot not build this plane (K5YAC)
    30. 08:02 PM - Re: Logo's (Clif Dawson)
    31. 08:28 PM - Re: 8 minute video segment from EAA on the Pietenpol Air Camper (Chris)
    32. 11:31 PM - Re: 8 minute video segment from EAA on the Pietenpol Air Camper (aerocarjake)
 
 
 


Message 1


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 04:18:57 AM PST US
    From: "Gboothe5" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: Logo's
    Uh-oh.. Do not archive From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lawrence Williams Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 11:06 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Logo's None of this has anything to do with putting a piece of PLASTIC (ok, VINYL) on an Air Camper does it? Might be alright for a GN-1 but not on a Pietenpol......... for Pete's sake! Next thing you know people will be putting shiny wet-look paint on them. Where will it all lead? Lights? Radios? GPS? Egads! Larry (Head curmudgen, P.A.A.) do not archive


    Message 2


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 05:03:56 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Logo's
    From: helspersew@aol.com
    Larry, If you insist on expounding your curmudgeoness, please, at least use your c orrect title. You requested, and generously received, the esteemed title of TOP curmudgeon. Now you want to glom onto HEAD curmudgeon too? Let's not b e too greedy. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN do not archive by order of either the TOP curmudgeon or the HEAD curmudgeon . -----Original Message----- From: Lawrence Williams <lnawms@yahoo.com> Sent: Wed, Jan 18, 2012 1:10 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: Logo's None of this has anything to do with putting a piece of PLASTIC (ok, VINYL) on an Air Camper does it? Might be alright for a GN-1 but not on a Pietenpol......... for Pete's sake ! Next thing you know people will be putting shiny wet-look paint on them. Wh ere will it all lead? Lights? Radios? GPS? Egads! Larry (Head curmudgen, P.A.A.) do not archive -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -========================


    Message 3


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 05:07:20 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Logo's
    From: helspersew@aol.com
    And you thought you were almost done thinking about this. Now you have to l earn how to hand-paint. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN do not archive -----Original Message----- From: Gboothe5 <gboothe5@comcast.net> Sent: Wed, Jan 18, 2012 6:19 am Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Logo's Uh-oh. Do not archive From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lawrence Williams Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 11:06 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Logo's None of this has anything to do with putting a piece of PLASTIC (ok, VINYL) on an Air Camper does it? Might be alright for a GN-1 but not on a Pietenpol......... for Pete's sake ! Next thing you know people will be putting shiny wet-look paint on them. Wh ere will it all lead? Lights? Radios? GPS? Egads! Larry (Head curmudgen, P.A.A.) do not archive http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -========================


    Message 4


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 05:21:16 AM PST US
    From: "Gboothe5" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: Logo's
    It=99s OK, Dan. I don=99t have to look at it while I=99m flying.it=99s the rest of you that will pay for the Top Curmudgeon Gary from Cool Do not archive From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 5:05 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Logo's And you thought you were almost done thinking about this. Now you have to learn how to hand-paint. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN do not archive -----Original Message----- From: Gboothe5 <gboothe5@comcast.net> Sent: Wed, Jan 18, 2012 6:19 am Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Logo's Uh-oh. Do not archive From: <mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [ <mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com?> mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lawrence Williams Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 11:06 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Logo's None of this has anything to do with putting a piece of PLASTIC (ok, VINYL) on an Air Camper does it? Might be alright for a GN-1 but not on a Pietenpol......... for Pete's sake! Next thing you know people will be putting shiny wet-look paint on them. Where will it all lead? Lights? Radios? GPS? Egads! Larry (Head curmudgen, P.A.A.) do not archive <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List <http://forums.matronics.com/> http://forums.matronics.com <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> http://www.matronics.com/contribution " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution


    Message 5


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 05:23:24 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: carlson aircraft aluminum struts
    From: helspersew@aol.com
    Hi Tom, I copied Larry Williams (Top or Head Curmudgeon) and used the small Carlson wing struts. Go to westcoastpiet.com, where there are three photos to look at. The inserts were made from 7075 aluminum alloy pieces I got from Mcmas ter-Carr. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant@msn.com> Sent: Tue, Jan 17, 2012 10:59 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: carlson aircraft aluminum struts Anyone using the Carlson Aircraft Aluminum struts? I'm taking a look at th em pretty seriously.. Thinking the large size is adequate - they have what they're calling a "NEW" Heavy Duty size which seems overkill for a Piet. Anyone using them - anyone flying with them??? I think I read about Larry Williams using them. Just curious which size he chose and what the fitting s might look like. Of course I can always check out his plane at Brodhead - assuming he'll be there again. Tom Brant -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -========================


    Message 6


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 05:45:47 AM PST US
    From: "Gboothe5" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: Logo's
    I=99m all set, Dan! Is this the same guy you learned from? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen <http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=b9dEEzyMSAo> &NR=1&v=b9dEEzyMSAo Gary Do not archive From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 5:05 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Logo's And you thought you were almost done thinking about this. Now you have to learn how to hand-paint. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN do not archive -----Original Message----- From: Gboothe5 <gboothe5@comcast.net> Sent: Wed, Jan 18, 2012 6:19 am Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Logo's Uh-oh. Do not archive From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lawrence Williams Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 11:06 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Logo's None of this has anything to do with putting a piece of PLASTIC (ok, VINYL) on an Air Camper does it? Might be alright for a GN-1 but not on a Pietenpol......... for Pete's sake! Next thing you know people will be putting shiny wet-look paint on them. Where will it all lead? Lights? Radios? GPS? Egads! Larry (Head curmudgeon, P.A.A.) do not archive http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution


    Message 7


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 05:45:55 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: carlson aircraft aluminum struts
    From: Greg Bacon <gbacon67@gmail.com>
    Dan, I'm doing the same thing for the Mtn Piet wing rebuild. Do you have any pics of your jury strut to lift strut connection? Thanks, Greg Bacon Prairie Home, MO On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 7:20 AM, <helspersew@aol.com> wrote: > Hi Tom, > > I copied Larry Williams (Top or Head Curmudgeon) and used the small > Carlson wing struts. Go to westcoastpiet.com, where there are three > photos to look at. The inserts were made from 7075 aluminum alloy pieces I > got from Mcmaster-Carr. > > Dan Helsper > Puryear, TN > > -----Original Message----- > From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant@msn.com> > To: pietenpol-list <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Tue, Jan 17, 2012 10:59 pm > Subject: Pietenpol-List: carlson aircraft aluminum struts > > Anyone using the Carlson Aircraft Aluminum struts? I'm taking a look at > them pretty seriously.. Thinking the large size is adequate - they have > what they're calling a "NEW" Heavy Duty size which seems overkill for a > Piet. Anyone using them - anyone flying with them??? I think I read about > Larry Williams using them. Just curious which size he chose and what the > fittings might look like. Of course I can always check out his plane at > Brodhead - assuming he'll be there again. > > Tom Brant > > * > > " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > p://forums.matronics.com > blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > * > > * > > * > > -- Greg Bacon


    Message 8


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 05:57:05 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Logo's
    From: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson@centurylink.net>
    Well.... whilst I did deviate from the plans some I will not have any stickers on NX510JD. It may look like a bear's behind sewed up with a grapevine when finished though! The picture attached is what I would like to have on it. I will try to enlist my wife Bobbie to do the job. She is a good portrait artist. do not archive -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 now covering 21&quot; wheels Lycoming O-235 C 2C Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364187#364187 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/steamboat_willy_how_to_fly_821.jpg


    Message 9


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 08:17:50 AM PST US
    From: Matthijs de Groot <getijsem@zonnet.nl>
    Subject: do you guys doubt your work somtimes?
    Hi I'm working on the tail section.(just need to make the fin and than its done) I'm building very neat, exactly following the plans. But when I think that these parts are gone steer my hole plane they look a bit flimsy. And will i ever finish there is just so much to do. I love the work so far but did these thoughts come up when you guys where building. Matthijs from the Netherlands.


    Message 10


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 08:31:52 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: do you guys doubt your work somtimes?
    From: Andrew Eldredge <andrew.eldredge@gmail.com>
    A great deal of the structure is in the bracing wires. By the time you get everything wired up, it will seem overdone. Andrew On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 9:15 AM, Matthijs de Groot <getijsem@zonnet.nl>wrote: > getijsem@zonnet.nl> > > Hi I'm working on the tail section.(just need to make the fin and than its > done) > I'm building very neat, exactly following the plans. > But when I think that these parts are gone steer my hole plane they look a > bit flimsy. > And will i ever finish there is just so much to do. > I love the work so far but did these thoughts come up when you guys where > building. > > Matthijs from the Netherlands. > > -- Andrew Eldredge Provo, UT


    Message 11


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 08:38:52 AM PST US
    From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: do you guys doubt your work somtimes?
    Hi Matthijs, I'm sure everybody has doubts at one point or another. Just remember, particularly with the tail pieces, that they ARE very flimsy until they are installed and braced with the bracing wire. Even then, they are just strong enough for flight loads. Be wary of small children using them as climbing exercises. Trust the design - it has proven itself to be plenty strong enough for over 80 years. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matthijs de Groot Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 11:15 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: do you guys doubt your work somtimes? Hi I'm working on the tail section.(just need to make the fin and than its done) I'm building very neat, exactly following the plans. But when I think that these parts are gone steer my hole plane they look a bit flimsy. And will i ever finish there is just so much to do. I love the work so far but did these thoughts come up when you guys where building. Matthijs from the Netherlands.


    Message 12


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 10:12:04 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: do you guys doubt your work somtimes?
    From: "tools" <n0kkj@yahoo.com>
    Those thoughts can cripple you into not ever getting done... it has me for about 18 years. It's especially tough because of the mixed information. I specifically chose a Piet because it's like the Spanish language, very few exceptions. "Just stick to the plans" seems to be the norm, and they are comparatively VERY complete. Still, when you ask a question, you very often get quite a variance in answers. I'm currently rereading the first ten years of BPA newsletters, and in the FIRST ONE, it says to stick to the plans... except... It's a necessary evil, times have changed since it was designed. 4130 over 1020 steel, probably a good idea. T-88 or resorcinol instead of casein, definitely! Etc. I believe the trick is to find a "method" that gets you past that. Either trusting what you hear here, a local knowledgeable builder, an A and P friend, whatever. What has done it for me is buying an entire Piet, which has finally gotten me started on building in earnest. Also, I'm spending a lot of time with A and P's restoring and maintaining vintage planes. I believe the worst you could do is blindly "improving". Many issues come from what is NECESSARY for modernization. Casein glue being a good case in point. Hard wires are a good example. While they're still fine, finding wire isn't too bad, but finding some help in fabricating them, a different matter, so modernizing for that reason might be necessary. Not for a lack of trying to gather good info, I have hand written letters from Rudolf, Henderson, Kapler, Hoopman, etc, I don't have the Bingelis books yet. I think they go a long way putting your mind at ease on what is "normal" in aircraft construction. Working on that now. I believe comprehensive education is the best that you can do to put your mind at ease! Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364209#364209


    Message 13


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 10:18:52 AM PST US
    From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: do you guys doubt your work somtimes?
    Maybe I am just a late night worrier, but every time I made something I'd ask myself, if this fails will it kill me? Usually around 3 AM I'd wake up and think of what I'd done the previous day. You are right, there is a lot to do. Just keep on working at it, play with it every day, and before you know it you will be finished. Be sure to have a tech counselor from your local EAA chapter look at it once in a while if you have doubts. Now that mine is finished and has 100 hours or so on it, I'm still amazed when I'm putting along at 500 feet, look down the wing at all those ribs, rib stitches, wires, fittings, etc, and try to remember that I built every piece myself. I came across my page on West Coast Piet the other day, and there is a posting at this link of my pictures, and my narrative of the first flight, 2 years ago. It might encourage you...FWIW http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Ben%20Charvet/pictures.htm Ben Charvet Titusville, Fl Still flying in shirtsleeves in January On 1/18/2012 11:15 AM, Matthijs de Groot wrote: > <getijsem@zonnet.nl> > > Hi I'm working on the tail section.(just need to make the fin and than > its done) > I'm building very neat, exactly following the plans. > But when I think that these parts are gone steer my hole plane they > look a bit flimsy. > And will i ever finish there is just so much to do. > I love the work so far but did these thoughts come up when you guys > where building. > > Matthijs from the Netherlands. > > -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center


    Message 14


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 10:27:18 AM PST US
    Subject: Speaking of "improvements", or retrogrades... tail
    From: "tools" <n0kkj@yahoo.com>
    I'm helping restore a 1919 design, a Standard J-1 biplane. It's got a neat tail skid I imagine was pretty normal for its time. It's got a short post where most tail skids or wheels would mount. That post has a welded bracket that connects the tailskid itself, merely a piece of wood about 1 1/4" square, about a foot and a half long, that pivots on that short post (about midway). The bottom end has a skid, the top end has a bungee connected to the bottom of the plane. Basically a see saw. The unstretched position angles it down at about a 45 degree angle. The advantage is twofold. First, the "spring" comes from bungee cord, which is lighter. Second, it's REALLY cool looking and fits the genre of the plane perfectly. It has one main bungee and two small ones that recenter it (as it has allowance for side to side travel to accommodate turns). A tail wheel could be mounted as easily as a skid plate. Has anyone seen one on a Piet? Anyone have any experience with them at all? Any interest? I can get pictures. Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364213#364213


    Message 15


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 10:32:25 AM PST US
    From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
    Subject: tailfeather flimsy feeling---that's perfect Matthijs,
    they are flimsy! Not to worry Matthijs, that is how the tailfeathers feel--like they are not adequate to steer and stabilize the entire airplane but when you attach all of the brace cables back there the whole thing becomes VERY strong. Same with the wood/Jenny type landing gear--it flops around until you install the X-brace cables and the it becomes a bridge. (If it can take my abusive landings especially.) One thing that may or may not be on the plans (I forget now) are to put wood blocks in between all of the tailfeather cap and bottom strips of wood to keep them apart while you rib stitch the fabric to them, otherwise you could pull the pieces together and break them. I thin these blocks are shown on the plans. Doesn't take much but they are important. Mike C.


    Message 16


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 10:38:15 AM PST US
    From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
    Subject: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend when you
    tighten your fabric Here's a good use for scrap capstrip material. In addition to the normal supports for your turtledeck stringers it's not a bad idea to throw in some T-88'ed (or whatever glue y ou're using) capstrips in between the stringers. Fabric is powerful when heat shrunk and can make things mo ve and distort unless reinforced well. [cid:image003.jpg@01CCD5E6.165C3DC0]


    Message 17


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 12:47:30 PM PST US
    Subject: I cannot not build this plane
    From: "RickBright" <brightwellrichard@yahoo.com>
    My plans from the Pietenpol Family are here. The Bingelis books are on the way. I am about to sent the check to Michael Cuy for his DVD and have had several contacts from some great people on this forum within a few hours drive from my location in NW Arkansas, they know who they are and you guys will hear from me about a visit in the future. I have in the past worked as a manual and a CNC machinist, and have to admit even though I have past experience reading and building parts to dimensional blueprints these plans do have me scratching my head over a few things. I do know breaking the project down into a series of small victories is the way to proceed. The Piet was love (lust?) at first sight, I seem to be kind of stuck in the past, have a couple of 1950s' vintage GM Buses, (think Greyhounds) one has been finished into a home on wheels and I still drive the 1970 Olds Muscle Car I bought at 16 in 1972. I seem to have a hard time writing down the year since 2000. I want to thank all the experienced builders helping us new folks. Your advise, knowledge and willingness to share is appreciated. Rick DO NOT ARCHIVE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364230#364230


    Message 18


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 12:59:13 PM PST US
    From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: I cannot not build this plane
    Rick, Yes you can!! Fear not, though you may be right. Once you get past building the tail and the ribs, you are faced with a bunch of inter-connected decisions and projects. Just my advice...build the tail, first, so that you have something cool to hang on the wall; then the wing ribs. If anyone tells you that it took me 3 years to build my ribs...well...nevermind! The rest of the plane is just too much fun to work on. Welcome to the best years of your life! Gary Boothe NX308MB Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RickBright Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 12:45 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: I cannot not build this plane --> <brightwellrichard@yahoo.com> My plans from the Pietenpol Family are here. The Bingelis books are on the way. I am about to sent the check to Michael Cuy for his DVD and have had several contacts from some great people on this forum within a few hours drive from my location in NW Arkansas, they know who they are and you guys will hear from me about a visit in the future. I have in the past worked as a manual and a CNC machinist, and have to admit even though I have past experience reading and building parts to dimensional blueprints these plans do have me scratching my head over a few things. I do know breaking the project down into a series of small victories is the way to proceed. The Piet was love (lust?) at first sight, I seem to be kind of stuck in the past, have a couple of 1950s' vintage GM Buses, (think Greyhounds) one has been finished into a home on wheels and I still drive the 1970 Olds Muscle Car I bought at 16 in 1972. I seem to have a hard time writing down the year since 2000. I want to thank all the experienced builders helping us new folks. Your advise, knowledge and willingness to share is appreciated. Rick DO NOT ARCHIVE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364230#364230


    Message 19


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 12:59:13 PM PST US
    From: "Barry Davis" <bed@mindspring.com>
    Subject: carlson aircraft aluminum struts
    I just sent this sketch to Gardiner Mason for reference. We used the large, not the new extra heavy. Barry Davis NX973BP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM MICHELLE BRANT Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 11:56 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: carlson aircraft aluminum struts Anyone using the Carlson Aircraft Aluminum struts? I'm taking a look at them pretty seriously.. Thinking the large size is adequate - they have what they're calling a "NEW" Heavy Duty size which seems overkill for a Piet. Anyone using them - anyone flying with them??? I think I read about Larry Williams using them. Just curious which size he chose and what the fittings might look like. Of course I can always check out his plane at Brodhead - assuming he'll be there again. Tom Brant


    Message 20


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 01:01:29 PM PST US
    From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: I cannot not build this plane
    Rick, Membership in the head-scratchers club is mandatory if you are going to build this plane, I've been at it over 10 years - still scratching - welcome. Remember, these plans were drawn by a teenaged kid using a Sears mail-order drafting kit, whatever that meant in 1929. Kip Gardner On Jan 18, 2012, at 3:44 PM, RickBright wrote: > > > > My plans from the Pietenpol Family are here. The Bingelis books are > on the way. I am about to sent the check to Michael Cuy for his DVD > and have had several contacts from some great people on this forum > within a few hours drive from my location in NW Arkansas, they know > who they are and you guys will hear from me about a visit in the > future. > I have in the past worked as a manual and a CNC machinist, and have > to admit even though I have past experience reading and building > parts to dimensional blueprints these plans do have me scratching my > head over a few things. I do know breaking the project down into a > series of small victories is the way to proceed. > The Piet was love (lust?) at first sight, I seem to be kind of stuck > in the past, have a couple of 1950s' vintage GM Buses, (think > Greyhounds) one has been finished into a home on wheels and I still > drive the 1970 Olds Muscle Car I bought at 16 in 1972. I seem to > have a hard time writing down the year since 2000. > I want to thank all the experienced builders helping us new folks. > Your advise, knowledge and willingness to share is appreciated. > > Rick > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364230#364230 > >


    Message 21


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 01:02:48 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Logo's
    From: "RickBright" <brightwellrichard@yahoo.com>
    My Father-In-Law was an old school sign painter and lettered a lot of vehicles, some airplanes and more than one steam engine from the 50's into the 80's, he has been gone 20 years. Lucky for me his daughter spent a lot of shop and road time with him. She is a very talented artist, anyone in the NW Arkansas area who might need help with a logo give me a shout, boy it sure was easy to volunteer her help..... Rick DO NOT ARCHIVE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364231#364231


    Message 22


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 01:08:44 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: carlson aircraft aluminum struts
    From: helspersew@aol.com
    Tom, On the bottom of my struts are the same 7075 insert, drilled and threaded t o accept a Piper J-3 fork end. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant@msn.com> Sent: Tue, Jan 17, 2012 10:59 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: carlson aircraft aluminum struts Anyone using the Carlson Aircraft Aluminum struts? I'm taking a look at th em pretty seriously.. Thinking the large size is adequate - they have what they're calling a "NEW" Heavy Duty size which seems overkill for a Piet. Anyone using them - anyone flying with them??? I think I read about Larry Williams using them. Just curious which size he chose and what the fitting s might look like. Of course I can always check out his plane at Brodhead - assuming he'll be there again. Tom Brant -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -========================


    Message 23


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 01:09:26 PM PST US
    From: AMsafetyC@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Logo's
    We like volunteers, I bet you got a lot of practice volunteering her! John Do not archive


    Message 24


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 02:06:54 PM PST US
    From: Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
    Subject: Re: I cannot not build this plane
    Sounds like it's time for a visit! The Air Camper can NOT be built strictly from the plans. Period. You'll need to "fill in" and "adjust" a lot as you go... The plans are a wonderful step back in time and I prize mine as very important documents. But as a former draftsman... So go ahead and spend some more time looking over the plans then come on over and visit me and Mark. There are some specific areas you DON'T need to mess up...and redo....and mess up again...and.etc. I've already done that for you. (I can show you several boxes of "first run" parts and wasted efforts you do not need to redo yourself....) We can help you identify the exact areas you need to be careful with.... If you're thinking about the straight axle/wood gear, let me know. I'll set mine up in advance to show you how I came up with those compound angle cuts, quickly and accurately. It's a very simple 15 minute process I somehow stumbled onto and it works very well. I would also get a copy of Chuck Gantzer's video. I think you can reach him at: Rcaprd@aol.com Not the exact same format as Mike's (that wasn't Chuck's goal) but very informative. I personally think those two "build related" videos are "must haves" for Pietenpol builders! Anyway....come on over! Jim in Pryor -----Original Message----- >From: RickBright <brightwellrichard@yahoo.com> >Sent: Jan 18, 2012 2:44 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: I cannot not build this plane > > >My plans from the Pietenpol Family are here. The Bingelis books are on the way. I am about to sent the check to Michael Cuy for his DVD and have had several contacts from some great people on this forum within a few hours drive from my location in NW Arkansas, they know who they are and you guys will hear from me about a visit in the future. > I have in the past worked as a manual and a CNC machinist, and have to admit even though I have past experience reading and building parts to dimensional blueprints these plans do have me scratching my head over a few things. I do know breaking the project down into a series of small victories is the way to proceed. > The Piet was love (lust?) at first sight, I seem to be kind of stuck in the past, have a couple of 1950s' vintage GM Buses, (think Greyhounds) one has been finished into a home on wheels and I still drive the 1970 Olds Muscle Car I bought at 16 in 1972. I seem to have a hard time writing down the year since 2000. > I want to thank all the experienced builders helping us new folks. Your advise, knowledge and willingness to share is appreciated. > >Rick > >DO NOT ARCHIVE > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364230#364230 > >


    Message 25


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 03:43:51 PM PST US
    From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
    Subject: 8 minute video segment from EAA on the Pietenpol Air Camper
    And the guy who started this list way back-Steve Eldredge from Utah who fle w his new plane all the way to Oshkosh to join us in 1999 when we gathered for the 70th anniversary of the design. http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=1373284259 Mike C.


    Message 26


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 04:10:32 PM PST US
    From: airlion <airlion@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: carlson aircraft aluminum struts
    Dan, did you use any kind of coating for between the fork end and the aluminium strut for corosion protection? Gardiner ________________________________ From: "helspersew@aol.com" <helspersew@aol.com> Sent: Wed, January 18, 2012 4:04:21 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: carlson aircraft aluminum struts Tom, On the bottom of my struts are the same 7075 insert, drilled and threaded to accept a Piper J-3 fork end. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant@msn.com> Sent: Tue, Jan 17, 2012 10:59 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: carlson aircraft aluminum struts Anyone using the Carlson Aircraft Aluminum struts? I'm taking a look at them pretty seriously.. Thinking the large size is adequate - they have what they're calling a "NEW" Heavy Duty size which seems overkill for a Piet. Anyone using them - anyone flying with them??? I think I read about Larry Williams using them. Just curious which size he chose and what the fittings might look like. Of course I can always check out his plane at Brodhead - assuming he'll be there again. Tom Brant " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution


    Message 27


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 06:26:31 PM PST US
    From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant@msn.com>
    Subject: carlson aircraft aluminum struts
    I should have clarrified - the "small" struts are about 2.5" x 1" and the " large" struts are about 3 1/8" x 1 1/4". Are you sure Larry used the small ones?? I guess the strength is there.. Tom B. Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: carlson aircraft aluminum struts From: helspersew@aol.com Hi Tom=2C I copied Larry Williams (Top or Head Curmudgeon) and used the small Carlson wing struts. Go to westcoastpiet.com=2C where there are three photos to lo ok at. The inserts were made from 7075 aluminum alloy pieces I got from Mcm aster-Carr. Dan Helsper Puryear=2C TN -----Original Message----- From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant@msn.com> Sent: Tue=2C Jan 17=2C 2012 10:59 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: carlson aircraft aluminum struts Anyone using the Carlson Aircraft Aluminum struts? I'm taking a look at th em pretty seriously.. Thinking the large size is adequate - they have what they're calling a "NEW" Heavy Duty size which seems overkill for a Piet. Anyone using them - anyone flying with them??? I think I read about Larry Williams using them. Just curious which size he chose and what the fitting s might look like. Of course I can always check out his plane at Brodhead - assuming he'll be there again. Tom Brant " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution


    Message 28


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 07:43:14 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: tailfeather flimsy feeling---that's perfect Matthijs,
    they a
    From: "K5YAC" <hangar10@cox.net>
    michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov wrote: > One thing that may or may not be on the plans (I forget now) are to put wood blocks in between all of the tailfeather cap and bottom strips of wood to keep them apart while you rib stitch the fabric to them, otherwise you could pull the pieces together and break them. I thin these blocks are shown on the plans. Doesn't take much but they are important. Thanks for reminding us of that Mike. I saw these on Jim's tail pieces, but I had forgot about making them for mine until I saw your note. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364262#364262


    Message 29


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 07:50:43 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: I cannot not build this plane
    From: "K5YAC" <hangar10@cox.net>
    What Jim said... I too recommend Chuck's videos. Yes, there are two... building AND flying... both are informative and inspirational. Come see us, and try to get up to Brodhead this year too. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364263#364263


    Message 30


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 08:02:54 PM PST US
    From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854@shaw.ca>
    Subject: Re: Logo's
    Just how many heads do we have here anyway??? Hands up! Clif, direct to you from Lotus Land. Otherwise known as British Columbia. Oh! Do not archive this either :-) Larry, Now you want to glom onto HEAD curmudgeon too? Let's not be too greedy. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN Oh! Do not archive this either Clif, direct to you from Lotus Land. Otherwise known as British Columbia. Oh! Do not archive this either :-)


    Message 31


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 08:28:00 PM PST US
    From: "Chris" <catdesigns@att.net>
    Subject: 8 minute video segment from EAA on the Pietenpol Air
    Camper Thanks Mike. This brings back memories. Speaking of Steve Eldredge, does any of the old timers have a copy of his trip report he wrote about flying to Brodhead and Oshkosh? It is a great story and I would love to read it again. Actually all of us builders should read it often as it captures the spirit of why we are building and why we need to get our plane finished. It used to be on his web page which is now long gone. Chris Sacramento, Ca Westcoastpiet.com _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP] Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 3:41 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: 8 minute video segment from EAA on the Pietenpol Air Camper And the guy who started this list way back-Steve Eldredge from Utah who flew his new plane all the way to Oshkosh to join us in 1999 when we gathered for the 70th anniversary of the design. http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=1373284259 Mike C.


    Message 32


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 11:31:13 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: 8 minute video segment from EAA on the Pietenpol Air
    Camper
    From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake@gmail.com>
    Thanks Mike..... I had not seen this before and I really enjoyed it. The video was a nice treat after another day in the shop. (It snowed several inches so I had to stay home from work.... and work on the Piet) Well SOMEBODY'S got to do it...:-) -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364269#364269




    Other Matronics Email List Services

  • Post A New Message
  •   pietenpol-list@matronics.com
  • UN/SUBSCRIBE
  •   http://www.matronics.com/subscription
  • List FAQ
  •   http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
  • Web Forum Interface To Lists
  •   http://forums.matronics.com
  • Matronics List Wiki
  •   http://wiki.matronics.com
  • 7-Day List Browse
  •   http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list
  • Browse Pietenpol-List Digests
  •   http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list
  • Browse Other Lists
  •   http://www.matronics.com/browse
  • Live Online Chat!
  •   http://www.matronics.com/chat
  • Archive Downloading
  •   http://www.matronics.com/archives
  • Photo Share
  •   http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
  • Other Email Lists
  •   http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
  • Contributions
  •   http://www.matronics.com/contribution

    These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.

    -- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --