---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 01/19/12: 31 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:23 AM - Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend when you tight (Bill Church) 2. 03:47 AM - Re: carlson aircraft aluminum struts (helspersew@aol.com) 3. 03:54 AM - Re: carlson aircraft aluminum struts (helspersew@aol.com) 4. 03:56 AM - Re: Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend when you tight (Jack) 5. 04:58 AM - Re: Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend when you tight (Mark Stanley) 6. 05:07 AM - Re: I cannot not build this plane (Mark Stanley) 7. 05:08 AM - Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend when you tight (womenfly2) 8. 05:26 AM - Re: 8 minute video segment from EAA on the Pietenpol Air Camper (Mark Stanley) 9. 05:30 AM - Re: Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend when you tight (C N Campbell) 10. 05:35 AM - Re: I cannot not build this plane (Jim Markle) 11. 06:03 AM - Re: I cannot not build this plane (Mark Stanley) 12. 06:30 AM - Re: Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend when you tight (Jack Phillips) 13. 07:34 AM - Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend when you tight (Bill Church) 14. 07:48 AM - Re: carlson aircraft aluminum struts (Michael Perez) 15. 08:15 AM - Mountain Piet rebuild (Douwe Blumberg) 16. 08:33 AM - Do we doubt our work? (Douwe Blumberg) 17. 09:18 AM - Re: 8 minute video segment from EAA on the Pietenpol Air Camper (Andrew Eldredge) 18. 09:36 AM - Re: tailfeather flimsy feeling---that's perfect Matthijs, they are flimsy! (Michael Perez) 19. 09:53 AM - Re: Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend when you tight (C N Campbell) 20. 10:09 AM - Re: Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend when you tight (C N Campbell) 21. 10:20 AM - little stringer tips--little investment, lots of insurance--great photo (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]) 22. 10:32 AM - Re: Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend when you tight (Jack Phillips) 23. 10:49 AM - Bugs in Piet yellow (Jerry Dotson) 24. 11:25 AM - Re: Bugs in Piet yellow (Ben Charvet) 25. 11:51 AM - Re: Bugs in Piet yellow (899PM) 26. 11:54 AM - Photos of jury strut fittings on aluminum struts (helspersew@aol.com) 27. 01:59 PM - Re: Bugs in Piet yellow (AircamperN11MS) 28. 02:40 PM - Re: Photos of jury strut fittings on aluminum struts (pineymb) 29. 02:40 PM - Re: Do we doubt our work? (bender) 30. 02:58 PM - Re: Bugs in Piet yellow (Jim Ash) 31. 03:00 PM - Re: Re: Photos /Heat muff (brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:23:31 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend when you tight From: "Bill Church" As an example of the strength of shrinking fabric, and the effect on the turtledeck stringers, check out this photo. And it was even more obvious in person than it appears in this photo. Best install the spacers like Mike suggested, AND be careful when covering. Don't get that fabric too tight. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364272#364272 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/wavy_stringers_997.jpg ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:47:27 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: carlson aircraft aluminum struts From: helspersew@aol.com Gardiner, Didn't think I needed any. I believe the fork is cad plated. Wouldn't it be the same as an AN bolt up against aluminum? Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: airlion Sent: Wed, Jan 18, 2012 6:10 pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: carlson aircraft aluminum struts Dan, did you use any kind of coating for between the fork end and the alumi nium strut for corosion protection? Gardiner From: "helspersew@aol.com" Sent: Wed, January 18, 2012 4:04:21 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: carlson aircraft aluminum struts Tom, On the bottom of my struts are the same 7075 insert, drilled and threaded t o accept a Piper J-3 fork end. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT Sent: Tue, Jan 17, 2012 10:59 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: carlson aircraft aluminum struts Anyone using the Carlson Aircraft Aluminum struts? I'm taking a look at th em pretty seriously.. Thinking the large size is adequate - they have what they're calling a "NEW" Heavy Duty size which seems overkill for a Piet. Anyone using them - anyone flying with them??? I think I read about Larry Williams using them. Just curious which size he chose and what the fitting s might look like. Of course I can always check out his plane at Brodhead - assuming he'll be there again. Tom Brant " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ://forums.matronics.com lank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:54:45 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: carlson aircraft aluminum struts From: helspersew@aol.com Tom, Well now I am doubting myself. But I am almost 100% sure. You could email t he Top Cumudgeon himself :O). lnawms@yahoo.com And while you do, you might meekish and sheepishly just mention to him that Bernerd DID NOT use alumin um struts! Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT Sent: Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:26 pm Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: carlson aircraft aluminum struts I should have clarrified - the "small" struts are about 2.5" x 1" and the " large" struts are about 3 1/8" x 1 1/4". Are you sure Larry used the small ones?? I guess the strength is there.. Tom B. Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: carlson aircraft aluminum struts From: helspersew@aol.com Hi Tom, I copied Larry Williams (Top or Head Curmudgeon) and used the small Carlson wing struts. Go to westcoastpiet.com, where there are three photos to look at. The inserts were made from 7075 aluminum alloy pieces I got from Mcmas ter-Carr. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT Sent: Tue, Jan 17, 2012 10:59 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: carlson aircraft aluminum struts Anyone using the Carlson Aircraft Aluminum struts? I'm taking a look at th em pretty seriously.. Thinking the large size is adequate - they have what they're calling a "NEW" Heavy Duty size which seems overkill for a Piet. Anyone using them - anyone flying with them??? I think I read about Larry Williams using them. Just curious which size he chose and what the fitting s might look like. Of course I can always check out his plane at Brodhead - assuming he'll be there again. Tom Brant " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ://forums.matronics.com lank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ttp://forums.matronics.com "_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:56:55 AM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend when you tight I think that would have been a redo for this builder... Jack Textor DSM NX1929T do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 5:21 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend when you tight As an example of the strength of shrinking fabric, and the effect on the turtledeck stringers, check out this photo. And it was even more obvious in person than it appears in this photo. Best install the spacers like Mike suggested, AND be careful when covering. Don't get that fabric too tight. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364272#364272 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/wavy_stringers_997.jpg ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:58:21 AM PST US From: "Mark Stanley" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend when you tight Ouch! Is the fabric 1.7 ounce? Thanks for posting the shot. Mark Stanley Japan -----Original Message----- From: Bill Church Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 8:21 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend when you tight As an example of the strength of shrinking fabric, and the effect on the turtledeck stringers, check out this photo. And it was even more obvious in person than it appears in this photo. Best install the spacers like Mike suggested, AND be careful when covering. Don't get that fabric too tight. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364272#364272 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/wavy_stringers_997.jpg ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:07:27 AM PST US From: "Mark Stanley" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I cannot not build this plane Hi Jim, Just reading your post to from over here in JapanLand. You mention that there are some specific areas that DON'T need to be messed up. When you have a spare moment, would it be possible to make a quick list of those areas? (Could be useful as some of us are a bit far away to come and have a look). Thanks Mark Stanley Japan Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: Jim Markle Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 7:04 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I cannot not build this plane Sounds like it's time for a visit! The Air Camper can NOT be built strictly from the plans. Period. You'll need to "fill in" and "adjust" a lot as you go... The plans are a wonderful step back in time and I prize mine as very important documents. But as a former draftsman... So go ahead and spend some more time looking over the plans then come on over and visit me and Mark. There are some specific areas you DON'T need to mess up...and redo....and mess up again...and.etc. I've already done that for you. (I can show you several boxes of "first run" parts and wasted efforts you do not need to redo yourself....) We can help you identify the exact areas you need to be careful with.... If you're thinking about the straight axle/wood gear, let me know. I'll set mine up in advance to show you how I came up with those compound angle cuts, quickly and accurately. It's a very simple 15 minute process I somehow stumbled onto and it works very well. I would also get a copy of Chuck Gantzer's video. I think you can reach him at: Rcaprd@aol.com Not the exact same format as Mike's (that wasn't Chuck's goal) but very informative. I personally think those two "build related" videos are "must haves" for Pietenpol builders! Anyway....come on over! Jim in Pryor ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:08:01 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend when you tight From: "womenfly2" Never had this issue. All depends on how tight you shrink the fabric. Seems most over shrink it, like on the turtle deck, fuselage in general. If done correctly you would not have to do what you are proposing. Follow the plans and it works. .... over kill. -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364279#364279 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:26:18 AM PST US From: "Mark Stanley" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 8 minute video segment from EAA on the Pietenpol Air Camper Hi Mike, Thanks for posting that, very enjoyable video. Mark Stanley Japan From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP] Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 8:41 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: 8 minute video segment from EAA on the Pietenpol Air Camper And the guy who started this list way back=94Steve Eldredge from Utah who flew his new plane all the way to Oshkosh to join us in 1999 when we gathered for the 70th anniversary of the design. http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=1373284259 Mike C. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:30:19 AM PST US From: "C N Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend when you tight All the "dacron" instructions say to do the final shrinking at 350 degrees on the iron. Are you saying this is too much? Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "womenfly2" Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 8:05 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend when you tight > > Never had this issue. All depends on how tight you shrink the fabric. > > Seems most over shrink it, like on the turtle deck, fuselage in general. > If done correctly you would not have to do what you are proposing. Follow > the plans and it works. > > .... over kill. > > -------- > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364279#364279 > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:35:59 AM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I cannot not build this plane Hi Mark, In my opinion, things like fuse width, wing type, cabane design...these can be all be left alone. And control system design. I tried to avoid making design changes such as replacing cables with hydraulic or pneumatic systems. That's the kind of stuff that I think does NOT need to be changed (ie: messed up). I had to spend extra time on many of the areas where I applied "brilliant" ideas I came up with to "improve" the design. And should have just stuck with the plans.... Or parts I messed up with bad welding...and had to reweld. Should have practiced more before attempting to weld the "final" piece(s). In my experience, the hole spacings (With the exception of the MOST of the simple angle pieces that attach the tail surfaces) all needed a bit of adjustment. None would have fit if laid out exactly per plans. Especially the landing gear fittings. Also areas like the one mentioned in Mike's video, right below the bottom surface of the wing where the struts connect......those need a bit more clearance. Building to the plans keeps the need to adjust at a minimum. Hope that answers your question.... JM -----Original Message----- >From: Mark Stanley >Sent: Jan 19, 2012 7:04 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I cannot not build this plane > > >Hi Jim, > >Just reading your post to from over here in JapanLand. >You mention that there are some specific areas that DON'T need to be messed >up. >When you have a spare moment, would it be possible to make a quick list of >those areas? (Could be useful as some of us are a bit far away to come and >have a look). > >Thanks >Mark Stanley >Japan > >Do not archive > >-----Original Message----- >From: Jim Markle >Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 7:04 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I cannot not build this plane > > >Sounds like it's time for a visit! > >The Air Camper can NOT be built strictly from the plans. Period. You'll >need to "fill in" and "adjust" a lot as you go... The plans are a wonderful >step back in time and I prize mine as very important documents. But as a >former draftsman... > >So go ahead and spend some more time looking over the plans then come on >over and visit me and Mark. There are some specific areas you DON'T need to >mess up...and redo....and mess up again...and.etc. I've already done that >for you. (I can show you several boxes of "first run" parts and wasted >efforts you do not need to redo yourself....) > >We can help you identify the exact areas you need to be careful with.... > >If you're thinking about the straight axle/wood gear, let me know. I'll set >mine up in advance to show you how I came up with those compound angle cuts, >quickly and accurately. It's a very simple 15 minute process I somehow >stumbled onto and it works very well. > >I would also get a copy of Chuck Gantzer's video. I think you can reach him >at: Rcaprd@aol.com Not the exact same format as Mike's (that wasn't >Chuck's goal) but very informative. I personally think those two "build >related" videos are "must haves" for Pietenpol builders! > >Anyway....come on over! > >Jim in Pryor > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:03:57 AM PST US From: "Mark Stanley" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I cannot not build this plane Hi Jim, Thanks very much for the quick reply and I appriciate your comments. They just renforce how I want to build the Piet. I am building as close as I can to the plans but I am prepared to adjust things if necassary. I really like the idea of a Ford powered, short fuz, wood gear 'standard Piet', so I don't want to stray too much from the original design. I will have another look at Mikes video regarding the fittings etc. Thanks again.. Mark Stanley Japan -----Original Message----- From: Jim Markle Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 10:33 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I cannot not build this plane Hi Mark, In my opinion, things like fuse width, wing type, cabane design...these can be all be left alone. And control system design. I tried to avoid making design changes such as replacing cables with hydraulic or pneumatic systems. That's the kind of stuff that I think does NOT need to be changed (ie: messed up). I had to spend extra time on many of the areas where I applied "brilliant" ideas I came up with to "improve" the design. And should have just stuck with the plans.... Or parts I messed up with bad welding...and had to reweld. Should have practiced more before attempting to weld the "final" piece(s). In my experience, the hole spacings (With the exception of the MOST of the simple angle pieces that attach the tail surfaces) all needed a bit of adjustment. None would have fit if laid out exactly per plans. Especially the landing gear fittings. Also areas like the one mentioned in Mike's video, right below the bottom surface of the wing where the struts connect......those need a bit more clearance. Building to the plans keeps the need to adjust at a minimum. Hope that answers your question.... JM -----Original Message----- >From: Mark Stanley >Sent: Jan 19, 2012 7:04 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I cannot not build this plane > > >Hi Jim, > >Just reading your post to from over here in JapanLand. >You mention that there are some specific areas that DON'T need to be messed >up. >When you have a spare moment, would it be possible to make a quick list of >those areas? (Could be useful as some of us are a bit far away to come and >have a look). > >Thanks >Mark Stanley >Japan > >Do not archive > >-----Original Message----- >From: Jim Markle >Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 7:04 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I cannot not build this plane > > > >Sounds like it's time for a visit! > >The Air Camper can NOT be built strictly from the plans. Period. You'll >need to "fill in" and "adjust" a lot as you go... The plans are a >wonderful >step back in time and I prize mine as very important documents. But as a >former draftsman... > >So go ahead and spend some more time looking over the plans then come on >over and visit me and Mark. There are some specific areas you DON'T need >to >mess up...and redo....and mess up again...and.etc. I've already done that >for you. (I can show you several boxes of "first run" parts and wasted >efforts you do not need to redo yourself....) > >We can help you identify the exact areas you need to be careful with.... > >If you're thinking about the straight axle/wood gear, let me know. I'll >set >mine up in advance to show you how I came up with those compound angle >cuts, >quickly and accurately. It's a very simple 15 minute process I somehow >stumbled onto and it works very well. > >I would also get a copy of Chuck Gantzer's video. I think you can reach >him >at: Rcaprd@aol.com Not the exact same format as Mike's (that wasn't >Chuck's goal) but very informative. I personally think those two "build >related" videos are "must haves" for Pietenpol builders! > >Anyway....come on over! > >Jim in Pryor > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:30:04 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend when you tight Y'all are worrying too much again. We don't know anything about the Pietenpol in that picture. It may have had very thin stringers, or it may have been covered with cotton which was glued on too tight, and then over time the dope tautened more than anticipated (butyrate dope continues to shrink for years). If you use dacron, follow the manufacturer's guidelines for shrinking - not the advice you think you hear on this list. Mike Cuy gave good advice to add little pieces between the stringers. It takes little time and adds almost no weight. I did it on mine, per his advice. Was it necessary? The only way to know for sure would be to add the pieces on one side but not the other and see if the side without reinforcement warped. I wasn't that curious. You can see these pieces in this photo: Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of C N Campbell Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 8:28 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend when you tight All the "dacron" instructions say to do the final shrinking at 350 degrees on the iron. Are you saying this is too much? Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "womenfly2" Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 8:05 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend when you tight > > Never had this issue. All depends on how tight you shrink the fabric. > > Seems most over shrink it, like on the turtle deck, fuselage in general. > If done correctly you would not have to do what you are proposing. Follow > the plans and it works. > > .... over kill. > > -------- > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364279#364279 > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:34:31 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend when you tight From: "Bill Church" Jack is right about not knowing the specifics of the plane in the photo. As I recall from when I took the photo several years ago, very little of that Air Camper was built "to the plans". For instance, the wings are actually from a different aircraft, the cabane strut system is completely different, the aileron control cable system was redesigned, there was a beefy passenger door, etc., so I would not be surprised if the turtledeck was also "improved". In fact, I'd be surprised if it wasn't. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364291#364291 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:48:51 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: carlson aircraft aluminum struts ACS sells Aeronca forks for $64.70 each. They come pre-coated with a black grease. I'm using Carlson's aluminum struts, fabricated 7075 inserts and the above forks. Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:15:09 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mountain Piet rebuild Hey Greg, Haven't heard much detail about your Mountain Piet rebuild. Saw the plane at it's one and only Brodhead appearance and was struck by the incredible workmanship. How is she coming? And are you keeping the Subaru or going to something else?? Douwe ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:33:56 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Do we doubt our work? Hey Matthijs! Scratch building an airplane from these plans is a monumental achievement in my opinion. Percentage wise, VERY few people have ever done it and these days, even less are doing it. It takes a unique kind of person, maybe a dreamer with a willingness to learn many skills and an ability to commit, but above all it takes a unique kind of persistence that is driven by a vision of something larger worth striving for. I feel that bringing to life to one of Pietenpol's planes is not only one of the highlights of my life, but also a blessing to everyone who will ever see or fly in it because it is like a time capsule and historic artifact all wrapped up in one. Yes it is a long journey, and one I struggle with every day now that I'm actually rebuilding mine after an incident that set me back two years now. YES I ABSOLUTELY STRUGGLE WHEN I THINK ABOUT ALL THE THINGS LEFT TO DO, BUT WHILE I STRUGGLE, I WORK. AND MOVE THE PROJECT FORWARD EVERY DAY. BUT. I KNOW, without a shadow of a doubt that my persistence will pay off and when I'm flying her through the blue skies, over the green pastures that I will not feel badly about the time spent building her, but I will look back fondly and proudly that I stuck with it. A friend once told me about projects like this "Touch something on it every day". That one thought has helped me a lot. Where in the Netherlands are you? My wife and I will be visiting family next September. Douwe ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:18:57 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 8 minute video segment from EAA on the Pietenpol Air Camper From: Andrew Eldredge Steve should be over at my house this evening (working on getting NX7229R back in service, incidentally) I've asked him if he retained a copy of that and his build log, If I can get him to find it, I'll put it back up online. -- Andrew Eldredge Provo, UT On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 6:23 AM, Mark Stanley wrote: > Hi Mike, > > Thanks for posting that, very enjoyable video. > > Mark Stanley > Japan > > *From:* Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP] > *Sent:* Thursday, January 19, 2012 8:41 AM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: 8 minute video segment from EAA on the > Pietenpol Air Camper > > > And the guy who started this list way back=97Steve Eldredge from Utah who > flew his new plane all the**** > > way to Oshkosh to join us in 1999 when we gathered for the 70thanniversar y of the design. > **** > > **** > > http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=1373284259**** > > **** > > Mike C.**** > > **** > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c * > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:36:27 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tailfeather flimsy feeling---that's perfect Matthijs, they are flimsy! These spacer blocks are not on the plans. Mike C. had told me about adding these blocks for the reasons he described. Having just finished covering my tail pieces, I can say that they work just fine. I did not loose any curved shape by shrinking the fabric. Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:53:23 AM PST US From: "C N Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend when you tight Jack, you wouldn't put those pieces between stringers high enough for the fabric to touch, right? C ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 9:27 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend when you tight Y'all are worrying too much again. We don't know anything about the Pietenpol in that picture. It may have had very thin stringers, or it may have been covered with cotton which was glued on too tight, and then over time the dope tautened more than anticipated (butyrate dope continues to shrink for years). If you use dacron, follow the manufacturer's guidelines for shrinking - not the advice you think you hear on this list. Mike Cuy gave good advice to add little pieces between the stringers. It takes little time and adds almost no weight. I did it on mine, per his advice. Was it necessary? The only way to know for sure would be to add the pieces on one side but not the other and see if the side without reinforcement warped. I wasn't that curious. You can see these pieces in this photo: Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of C N Campbell Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 8:28 AM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend when you tight All the "dacron" instructions say to do the final shrinking at 350 degrees on the iron. Are you saying this is too much? Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "womenfly2" To: Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 8:05 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend when you tight > > Never had this issue. All depends on how tight you shrink the fabric. > > Seems most over shrink it, like on the turtle deck, fuselage in general. > If done correctly you would not have to do what you are proposing. Follow > the plans and it works. > > .... over kill. > > -------- > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364279#364279 > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:09:35 AM PST US From: "C N Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend when you tight Looks to me like the plane might be a modified GN-1. C ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Church" Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 10:31 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend when you tight > > > Jack is right about not knowing the specifics of the plane in the photo. > As I recall from when I took the photo several years ago, very little of > that Air Camper was built "to the plans". For instance, the wings are > actually from a different aircraft, the cabane strut system is completely > different, the aileron control cable system was redesigned, there was a > beefy passenger door, etc., so I would not be surprised if the turtledeck > was also "improved". In fact, I'd be surprised if it wasn't. > > Bill C. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364291#364291 > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:18 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: little stringer tips--little investment, lots of insurance--great photo Excellent illustration Jack of those little pieces you used as well on you r stringers. Like Jack said, it takes little time and adds almost no weight and they well worthwhile, especially if you have thin stringers. Jack's photo also shows those great little blocks on the tailsurfaces (vert stab) that keep those wood strips from bending when you rib stitch. Mike C. [cid:image001.png@01CCD6AC.92F1C960] ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 10:32:46 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend when you tight Correct. They are perhaps 3/8" below the tops of the stringers. Also in this picture I notice that you can see the little blocks in the tail ribs that Mike Cuy mentioned as well. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of C N Campbell Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 12:50 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend when you tight Jack, you wouldn't put those pieces between stringers high enough for the fabric to touch, right? C ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 9:27 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend when you tight Y'all are worrying too much again. We don't know anything about the Pietenpol in that picture. It may have had very thin stringers, or it may have been covered with cotton which was glued on too tight, and then over time the dope tautened more than anticipated (butyrate dope continues to shrink for years). If you use dacron, follow the manufacturer's guidelines for shrinking - not the advice you think you hear on this list. Mike Cuy gave good advice to add little pieces between the stringers. It takes little time and adds almost no weight. I did it on mine, per his advice. Was it necessary? The only way to know for sure would be to add the pieces on one side but not the other and see if the side without reinforcement warped. I wasn't that curious. You can see these pieces in this photo: Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of C N Campbell Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 8:28 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend when you tight All the "dacron" instructions say to do the final shrinking at 350 degrees on the iron. Are you saying this is too much? Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "womenfly2" Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 8:05 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend when you tight > > Never had this issue. All depends on how tight you shrink the fabric. > > Seems most over shrink it, like on the turtle deck, fuselage in general. > If done correctly you would not have to do what you are proposing. Follow > the plans and it works. > > .... over kill. > > -------- > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364279#364279 > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:35 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bugs in Piet yellow From: "Jerry Dotson" The weather got real nice this morning and I painted the horizontal stabilizer, elevators and ailerons. All went well except for 2 flies that love Piet yellow. do not archive -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 now covering and painting 21" wheels Lycoming O-235 C2C Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364311#364311 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/a30_150.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/a28_927.jpg ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 11:25:25 AM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bugs in Piet yellow Flying in Florida, you'll always have a few bugs on your leading edges....Don't let a few flies slow you down. Ben On 1/19/2012 1:46 PM, Jerry Dotson wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jerry Dotson" > > The weather got real nice this morning and I painted the horizontal stabilizer, elevators and ailerons. All went well except for 2 flies that love Piet yellow. > > > do not archive > > -------- > Jerry Dotson > 59 Daniel Johnson Rd > Baker, FL 32531 > > Started building NX510JD July, 2009 > now covering and painting > 21" wheels > Lycoming O-235 C2C > Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364311#364311 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/a30_150.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/a28_927.jpg > > -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 11:51:15 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bugs in Piet yellow From: "899PM" There absolutely HAS to be future name for Jerry's Piet hiding in that second pic! -------- PAPA MIKE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364314#364314 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 11:54:04 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Photos of jury strut fittings on aluminum struts From: helspersew@aol.com Greg, I finally found these pics you requested. This set-up worked well for me. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 01:59:07 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bugs in Piet yellow From: "AircamperN11MS" I see more lift -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364318#364318 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 02:40:04 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Photos of jury strut fittings on aluminum struts From: "pineymb" Here's another similar idea. -------- Adrian M Winnipeg, MB Canada Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364322#364322 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/jury_attachment_953.jpg ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 02:40:05 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Do we doubt our work? From: "bender" Nice post Douwe.. the one thing i say to people all the time when they ask how i've gotten this far so fast is .."try to touch some part everyday" jeff do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364323#364323 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 02:58:17 PM PST US From: Jim Ash Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bugs in Piet yellow In Florida, once a couple are stuck to your leading edges, you'll need the multi rating. Jim -----Original Message----- >From: Ben Charvet >Sent: Jan 19, 2012 2:21 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bugs in Piet yellow > > >Flying in Florida, you'll always have a few bugs on your leading >edges....Don't let a few flies slow you down. > >Ben >On 1/19/2012 1:46 PM, Jerry Dotson wrote: >> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jerry Dotson" >> >> The weather got real nice this morning and I painted the horizontal stabilizer, elevators and ailerons. All went well except for 2 flies that love Piet yellow. >> >> >> do not archive >> >> -------- >> Jerry Dotson >> 59 Daniel Johnson Rd >> Baker, FL 32531 >> >> Started building NX510JD July, 2009 >> now covering and painting >> 21" wheels >> Lycoming O-235 C2C >> Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44 >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364311#364311 >> >> >> >> >> Attachments: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/a30_150.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/a28_927.jpg >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >-- >Ben Charvet, PharmD >Staff Pharmacist >Parrish Medical center > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 03:00:22 PM PST US From: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Photos /Heat muff Adrian, Hey I like the heat muff we can see in your picture.... any info on it for the group? Brian SLC-UT -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of pineymb Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 3:38 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Photos of jury strut fittings on aluminum struts Here's another similar idea. -------- Adrian M Winnipeg, MB Canada Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364322#364322 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/jury_attachment_953.jpg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.