Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Sun 01/29/12


Total Messages Posted: 25



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:34 AM - Question about lower fork ends- aluminum struts (helspersew@aol.com)
     2. 05:09 AM - Re: Steam box for bending plywood (Jerry Dotson)
     3. 05:11 AM - Re: Steam box for bending plywood (Jack Phillips)
     4. 05:18 AM - rib response (JOSEPH SWITHIN)
     5. 05:31 AM - Re: Question about lower fork ends- aluminum struts (Keith Hodge)
     6. 05:53 AM - Galvanic Corrosion (Jack Phillips)
     7. 06:20 AM - Re: Question about lower fork ends- aluminum struts (Jerry Dotson)
     8. 06:42 AM - Re: Galvanic Corrosion (airlion)
     9. 06:49 AM - Re: Re: Question about lower fork ends- aluminum struts (airlion)
    10. 07:38 AM - Re: Galvanic Corrosion (skellytown flyer)
    11. 08:16 AM - Re: Steam box for bending plywood (Gary Boothe)
    12. 08:22 AM - Re: Galvanic Corrosion (Bill Church)
    13. 08:44 AM - Re: Re: Galvanic Corrosion (Jack@textors.com)
    14. 10:48 AM - Re: Re: Galvanic Corrosion (Gary Boothe)
    15. 10:49 AM - Re: Steam box for bending plywood (shad bell)
    16. 11:03 AM - Question about lower fork ends- aluminum struts (helspersew@aol.com)
    17. 01:49 PM - Re: Question about lower fork ends- aluminum struts (Jerry Dotson)
    18. 02:02 PM - Re: Re: Question about lower fork ends- aluminum struts (airlion)
    19. 02:58 PM - Re: rib jig (rorichts)
    20. 03:27 PM - Re: Question about lower fork ends- aluminum struts (Keith Hodge)
    21. 05:48 PM - Re: Re: rib jig (Greg Cardinal)
    22. 07:04 PM - Re: rib jig (rorichts)
    23. 07:08 PM - Re: Re: rib jig (Ben Charvet)
    24. 09:17 PM - Re: Question about lower fork ends- aluminum struts (Doug Dever)
    25. 09:21 PM - Re: Galvanic Corrosion (Doug Dever)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:34:57 AM PST US
    Subject: Question about lower fork ends- aluminum struts
    From: helspersew@aol.com
    Gardiner, Here are a couple photos showing the jam nut on the fork threads, providing for the adjustment and locking ability. I am not an engineer, I can't imag ine a corrosion problem between the fork threads and the 7075 aluminum inse rt. Maybe someone with more technical knowledge could chime in (Jack or Bil l) and give us the official low-down. Hope this helps. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN


    Message 2


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    Time: 05:09:33 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Steam box for bending plywood
    From: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson@centurylink.net>
    Hey Shad when I saw the boiler setup I thought WHISKEY STILL! It makes plenty of steam do not archive -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 now covering and painting 21&quot; wheels Lycoming O-235 C2C Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365087#365087


    Message 3


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    Time: 05:11:52 AM PST US
    From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Steam box for bending plywood
    Very cool, Shad. Nice to see that Homebuilder ingenuity is alive and well! Jack Phillips Do Not Archive _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 12:36 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steam box for bending plywood Hear's a few pics of the steamer. Shad


    Message 4


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    Time: 05:18:37 AM PST US
    From: JOSEPH SWITHIN <joeswithin@yahoo.com>
    Subject: rib response
    Thank-You everyone for your help. When I reach the next phase I will let you knwo. Joe Do Not Archive


    Message 5


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    Time: 05:31:53 AM PST US
    From: Keith Hodge <keith.hodge@hodgehome.org.uk>
    Subject: Re: Question about lower fork ends- aluminum struts
    Hello Dan, I am building a Pietenpol over here in the UK. Do you happen to have the part number for the fork end which is shown in the second photograph (i.e. the one with the slot horizontal) and can you confirm the thread size. My project has been laid up for some time whilst I was building a house and I seem to have lost my records of where i ordered them from. Regards Keith Hodge P.S. I have attached a rather poor photo of my efforts, which is to be slightly unusual in having a BMW K100 motor cycle engine with Rotax 3 to 1 gearbox driving a lightweight prop. P.P.S And finally, regarding the corrosion comments I found (sea photo 2) that my steel fuel filler neck was immovable when I came to remove it due to corrosion (or did I use locktite? It was so long ago that I cannot remember. The one thing I was certainly not happy about was the fact that I paid top dollar from an approved supplier for the parts which I thought would be properly plated, but they were sure not. I will be stove enamelling the replacement before fitting it. On 29/01/2012 12:32 PM, helspersew@aol.com wrote: > Gardiner, > Here are a couple photos showing the jam nut on the fork threads, > providing for the adjustment and locking ability. I am not an > engineer, I can't imagine a corrosion problem between the fork threads > and the 7075 aluminum insert. Maybe someone with more technical > knowledge could chime in (Jack or Bill) and give us the official > low-down. Hope this helps. > Dan Helsper > Puryear, TN


    Message 6


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    Time: 05:53:33 AM PST US
    From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Galvanic Corrosion
    All right, Dan. Now you've done it and inspired my Geekiness to come to the surface. Let's talk a bit about Galvanic Corrosion. This occurs when you have dissimilar metals in intimate contact in an environment where they can get wet, such as at the ends of lift struts. Not all dissimilar metals cause problems - it depends on how "Anodic" they are. There is a chart listing the Anodic Index of all common metals. To find the susceptibility to corrosion of any metal pair, find the difference in their anodic indices - the corrosion will take place at the more anodic of the pair (this is why on outboard motors that may be run in saltwater you will find "sacrificial anodes" of magnesium or zinc on the aluminum casings of the motor, so the corrosion takes place there rather than on the aluminum. The rule of thumb to be safe from galvanic corrosion is to have a difference in anodic index of no more than about 0.15 - 0.20 for an outdoor environment. Here is the chart: Metal Category Anodic Index (volts) Gold, solid and plated 0.00 Rhodium plated on Silver-plated Copper 0.05 Silver, high Nickel-Copper alloys 0.15 Nickel, Titanium, Monel 0.30 Copper, Silver Solder, high Copper-Nickel 0.35 alloys, Nickel-Chromium alloys Brasses & Bronzes 0.40 18% Chromium Stainless Steel 0.50 Chromium plating, Tin plating 0.60 Tin-Lead solder 0.65 Lead 0.70 Aluminum, wrought, 2000 series 0.75 Iron, plain carbon or low-alloy steel 0.85 Aluminum, wrought alloys other than 2000 0.90 series (such as 7075) Cast Aluminum alloys, Cadmium plating 0.95 and Chromates Hot-dip Zinc, galvanized steel 1.20 Zinc 1.25 Magnesium 1.75 Beryllium 1.85 One of the important things to notice is that cad-plated steel (such as AN aircraft hardware) is not too bad when placed against 2024 series aluminum, and is even better against 7075 series. What is surprising to most people is how bad stainless steel is against aluminum (difference of .40 to .50). Hope this helps. By the way, I changed the subject to hopefully make this chart easier to locate in the archives Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew@aol.com Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 7:32 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Question about lower fork ends- aluminum struts Gardiner, Here are a couple photos showing the jam nut on the fork threads, providing for the adjustment and locking ability. I am not an engineer, I can't imagine a corrosion problem between the fork threads and the 7075 aluminum insert. Maybe someone with more technical knowledge could chime in (Jack or Bill) and give us the official low-down. Hope this helps. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN


    Message 7


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    Time: 06:20:50 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Question about lower fork ends- aluminum struts
    From: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson@centurylink.net>
    Dan if you tied the plane down outdoors where Ben Charvet lives I feel sure in a few years there would be corrosion. I had a Luscombe tied down outdoors about 2 miles from the Atlantic. There was steel to aluminum together at the prop flanges. The aluminum prop was sandwiched between steel with steel bolts. There was no significant corrosion there but I paid attention to it. I don't think a hangared airplane will have any real corrosion problem. That said most combinations of dissimilar metals touching has the potential for corrosion. I worked for Florida Gas Transmission Co 41 years. They have 3 pipelines coming from Texas going past Miami to Turkey Point with lateral lines serving most of the state. They use cathodic protection with anode beds(note dissimilar metal with the leads fastened to the pipes) and dc rectifiers with a fixed current output located about every 20 miles. So that said in the right circumstances dissimilar metals can help! If the pipe to soil voltage dropped below 0.8 volt we would raise the current out put near 1.2 volts. That meant deterioration of the pipe coating. My struts have threads on both ends. In a few weeks I hope to start the final assembly. I will coat the threads with silver Never Seez. Good stuff. Stays put. I have no pedigree, just finished highschool. do not archive -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 now covering and painting 21&quot; wheels Lycoming O-235 C2C Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365099#365099


    Message 8


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    Time: 06:42:15 AM PST US
    From: airlion <airlion@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: Galvanic Corrosion
    Thanks Jack, your explanation of galvanic corrosion makes more sense than a ny that I have heard. Gardiner --- On Sun, 1/29/12, Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> wrote: From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Galvanic Corrosion =0A=0A=0A =0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AAll right, Dan.=C2- Now you=99ve=0Adone it and inspired my Geekiness to come to the surface.=C2- Let=99s=0Atalk a bit about Galvanic Corrosion. =C2- This occurs when you have dissimilar=0Ametals in intimate contact in an environment where they can get wet, such as at=0Athe ends of lift strut s.=C2- Not all dissimilar metals cause problems =93=0Ait depends on how =9CAnodic=9D they are.=C2- There is a chart listing=0Ath e Anodic Index of all common metals.=C2- To find the susceptibility to=0A corrosion of any metal pair, find the difference in their anodic indices =93=0Athe corrosion will take place at the more anodic of the pair (t his is why on=0Aoutboard motors that may be run in saltwater you will find =9Csacrificial=0Aanodes=9D of magnesium or zinc on the aluminum casings of the motor, so the=0Acorrosion takes place there rather than on the aluminum. =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0AThe rule of thumb to be safe from galvani c=0Acorrosion is to have a difference in anodic index of no more than about 0.15 - 0.20=0Afor an outdoor environment.=C2- Here is the chart: =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0AMetal Category=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2- Anodic=0AIndex (volts) =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0AGold, soli d and plated=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- 0.00 =0A=0ARhodium plated on Silver-plated Copp er=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2- 0.05 =0A=0ASilver, high Nickel-Copper alloys=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- 0.15 =0A=0ANickel, T itanium, Monel=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2- 0.30 =0A=0ACopper, Silver Solder, high Copper-Nickel=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- 0.35 =0A=0A alloys, Nickel-Chromium alloys =0A=0ABrasses & Bronzes=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2- 0.40 =0A=0A18% Chromium Stainless Steel=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- 0.50 =0A=0AChr omium plating, Tin plating=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- 0.60 =0A=0ATin-Lead sol der=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- 0. 65 =0A=0ALead=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- 0.70 =0A=0AAluminum, wrought, 2000 series=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- 0.75 =0A =0AIron, plain carbon or low-alloy steel=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2- 0.85 =0A=0AAluminum, wrought alloys other than 2000=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- 0.90 =0A=0Aseries (such as 7075) =0A=0ACast Aluminum alloys, Cadmium plating=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- 0.95 =0A=0A and Chromates =0A=0AHot-dip Zinc, galvanized steel=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- 1.20 =0A=0AZinc=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- 1.25 =0A=0AMagnesium=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 - 1.75 =0A=0ABeryllium=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- 1. 85 =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0AOne of the important things to notice is=0Athat cad- plated steel (such as AN aircraft hardware) is not too bad when placed=0Aag ainst 2024 series aluminum, and is even better against 7075 series.=C2- =0AWhat is surprising to most people is how bad stainless steel is against =0Aaluminum (difference of .40 to .50). =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0AHope this helps .=C2- By the way, I=0Achanged the subject to hopefully make this chart ea sier to locate in the=0Aarchives =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0AJack Phillips =0A=0ANX 899JP =0A=0ASmith Mountain Lake, Virginia =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0AFrom:=0Aowner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:own er-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew@aol.com =0ASent: Sunday, January 29, 2012=0A7:32 AM =0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com =0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Question=0Aabout lower fork ends- aluminum stru ts =0A=0A=0A=0A =C2- =0A=0A=0A=0AGardiner, =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=C2- =0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0AHere are a couple photos showing the jam=0Anut on the fork t hreads, providing for the adjustment and locking ability. I am=0Anot an eng ineer, I can't imagine a corrosion problem between the fork threads=0Aand t he 7075 aluminum insert. Maybe someone with more technical knowledge could =0Achime in (Jack or Bill) and give us the official low-down. Hope this hel ps. =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=C2- =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ADan Helsper =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0APuryear,=0A TN=C2- =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A


    Message 9


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    Time: 06:49:53 AM PST US
    From: airlion <airlion@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: Question about lower fork ends- aluminum struts
    Jerry, where do you get silver never seize? I haver never heard of it. Gardiner --- On Sun, 1/29/12, Jerry Dotson <jdotson@centurylink.net> wrote: > From: Jerry Dotson <jdotson@centurylink.net> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Question about lower fork ends- aluminum struts > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Date: Sunday, January 29, 2012, 9:18 AM > --> Pietenpol-List message posted > by: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson@centurylink.net> > > Dan if you tied the plane down outdoors where Ben Charvet > lives I feel sure in a few years there would be > corrosion. I had a Luscombe tied down outdoors about 2 miles > from the Atlantic. There was steel to aluminum together at > the prop flanges. The aluminum prop was sandwiched between > steel with steel bolts. There was no significant corrosion > there but I paid attention to it. I don't think a hangared > airplane will have any real corrosion problem. That said > most combinations of dissimilar metals touching has the > potential for corrosion. > I worked for Florida Gas Transmission Co 41 years. They > have 3 pipelines coming from Texas going past Miami to > Turkey Point with lateral lines serving most of the state. > They use cathodic protection with anode beds(note dissimilar > metal with the leads fastened to the pipes) and dc > rectifiers with a fixed current output located about every > 20 miles. So that said in the right circumstances dissimilar > metals can help! If the pipe to soil voltage dropped below > 0.8 volt we would raise the current out put near 1.2 volts. > That meant deterioration of the pipe coating. > My struts have threads on both ends. In a few weeks I hope > to start the final assembly. I will coat the threads with > silver Never Seez. Good stuff. Stays put. > I have no pedigree, just finished highschool. > > > > > do not archive > > -------- > Jerry Dotson > 59 Daniel Johnson Rd > Baker, FL 32531 > > Started building NX510JD July, 2009 > now covering and painting > 21&quot; wheels > Lycoming O-235 C2C > Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365099#365099 > > > > > > > > Email Forum - > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > List Contribution Web Site - > -Matt > Dralle, List Admin. > > > >


    Message 10


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    Time: 07:38:49 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Galvanic Corrosion
    From: "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1@yahoo.com>
    On my aluminum struts I also used steel straps to mount the jury struts- but I put a layer of very heavy poly tape that is used to wrap pipelines with underground.I was concerned with the possibility of corrosion but also the tendency of aluminum to wear fast of it is under vibration against another hard surface.Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365111#365111


    Message 11


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    Time: 08:16:06 AM PST US
    From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: Steam box for bending plywood
    Ingenious, Shad.but that's one funny looking wing.;-) Gary Boothe Do not archive From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 9:36 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steam box for bending plywood Hear's a few pics of the steamer. Shad


    Message 12


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    Time: 08:22:56 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Galvanic Corrosion
    From: "Bill Church" <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
    Lucky for me, Jack stepped up. Otherwise I might have had my geekiness inspired to come to the surface as well. Bill C. do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365120#365120


    Message 13


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    Time: 08:44:30 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Galvanic Corrosion
    From: "Jack@textors.com" <jack@textors.com>
    That would be too much for one day Bill Jack Do not archive Sent from my iPad On Jan 29, 2012, at 10:20 AM, "Bill Church" <billspiet@sympatico.ca> wrote: > > Lucky for me, Jack stepped up. Otherwise I might have had my geekiness inspired to come to the surface as well. > > Bill C. > > do not archive > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365120#365120 > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 14


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    Time: 10:48:51 AM PST US
    From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Galvanic Corrosion
    ...as opposed to... when? Gary Boothe NX308MB Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 8:21 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Galvanic Corrosion --> <billspiet@sympatico.ca> Lucky for me, Jack stepped up. Otherwise I might have had my geekiness inspired to come to the surface as well. Bill C. do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365120#365120


    Message 15


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    Time: 10:49:33 AM PST US
    From: shad bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Steam box for bending plywood
    I decided to make the jig 2 sided after I bent the first piece of ply, it t ook a lot of propane to heat up the cold water, so I wanted to keep it goin g.=C2- The other thing was I didn't want to waste 2 weeks just to wait fo r the plywood to dry out so I could mask it off and varnish the insides.=C2 - Should have the top wings ready for fabric by spring.=C2- The bottoms still need some pully fittings made before I can sheet them. =C2- Shad --- On Sun, 1/29/12, Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote: From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Steam box for bending plywood Ingenious, Shadbut that=99s one funny looking wing; -) =C2- Gary Boothe Do not archive =C2- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 9:36 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steam box for bending plywood =C2- Hear's a few pics of the steamer. Shad =C2-


    Message 16


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    Time: 11:03:06 AM PST US
    Subject: Question about lower fork ends- aluminum struts
    From: helspersew@aol.com
    Keith, Here is a link from ACS for the Piper J-3 forks I used. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/strutadjfbsets1.php Dan Helsper Puryear, TN


    Message 17


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    Time: 01:49:56 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Question about lower fork ends- aluminum struts
    From: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson@centurylink.net>
    >Gardiner any auto parts store should carry anti-seize compound. It may be Permatex brand. Never Seez is a brand name that I used on recip and turbine engines. If you can wait a week or 2 I will mail you an ounce in a med bottle. That is enough to do all the Piets struts on the list. Jerry do not archive -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 now covering and painting 21&quot; wheels Lycoming O-235 C2C Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365160#365160


    Message 18


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    Time: 02:02:46 PM PST US
    From: airlion <airlion@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: Question about lower fork ends- aluminum struts
    Thanks Jerry, you don't have to do that cause I am going to see you when my wife and are going to Destin for her Rotary convention. I can't remember the date yet but I'll let you know. Gardiner --- On Sun, 1/29/12, Jerry Dotson <jdotson@centurylink.net> wrote: > From: Jerry Dotson <jdotson@centurylink.net> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Question about lower fork ends- aluminum struts > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Date: Sunday, January 29, 2012, 4:46 PM > --> Pietenpol-List message posted > by: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson@centurylink.net> > > >Gardiner any auto parts store should carry anti-seize > compound. It may be Permatex brand. Never Seez is a brand > name that I used on recip and turbine engines. If you can > wait a week or 2 I will mail you an ounce in a med bottle. > That is enough to do all the Piets struts on the list. > Jerry > > do not archive > > -------- > Jerry Dotson > 59 Daniel Johnson Rd > Baker, FL 32531 > > Started building NX510JD July, 2009 > now covering and painting > 21&quot; wheels > Lycoming O-235 C2C > Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365160#365160 > > > > > > > > Email Forum - > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > List Contribution Web Site - > -Matt > Dralle, List Admin. > > > >


    Message 19


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    Time: 02:58:34 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: rib jig
    From: "rorichts" <stolflite@gmail.com>
    As for building ribs to what extent if any is sanding the joints and gussets a part of the process? I have been told to hold to a minimum because of the sanded material degrading the integrity of the joint. thanks rich Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365167#365167


    Message 20


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    Time: 03:27:38 PM PST US
    From: Keith Hodge <keith.hodge@hodgehome.org.uk>
    Subject: Re: Question about lower fork ends- aluminum struts
    Thanks Dan, Now I can get my credit card out and get the job finished. Keith On 29/01/2012 7:00 PM, helspersew@aol.com wrote: > Keith, > Here is a link from ACS for the Piper J-3 forks I used. > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/strutadjfbsets1.php > Dan Helsper > Puryear, TN > * > > > *


    Message 21


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    Time: 05:48:36 PM PST US
    From: "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: rib jig
    Rich, You have been told correctly. The sanded material fills the pores of the wood and can prevent proper adhesive absorption. If you do sand the parts make sure you vacuum the pieces before applying adhesive. Best practice is to lightly scrape the pieces just before glueing. That being said, I did some very unscientific testing by glueing sanded pieces together with T88. The glue joints did not fail. Greg Cardinal Minneapolis ----- Original Message ----- From: "rorichts" <stolflite@gmail.com> Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 4:55 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: rib jig > > As for building ribs to what extent if any is sanding the joints and > gussets a part of the process? I have been told to hold to a minimum > because of the sanded material degrading the integrity of the joint. > thanks > rich > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365167#365167 > > >


    Message 22


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    Time: 07:04:52 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: rib jig
    From: "rorichts" <stolflite@gmail.com>
    Thanks for the help, wanting to error (maybe not a good choice of word) anyway will redo wing and call the first part of the cost of education. It has been and interesting experience. thanks again rich Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365183#365183


    Message 23


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    Time: 07:08:39 PM PST US
    From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: rib jig
    I had a nice belt/disc sander that I used during the rib making process. If you push to spruce/doug fir strips into the sanding disc too much the end gets pretty smooth and looks like the sap has melted, forming a slightly shiny end. I guess that should be avoided, but I believe most of the strength of the joints is in the gussets. I was also told that all plywood gussets need to be scuff sanded to improve adhesion. Especially the birch aircraft plywood. Lots easier to block sand the plywood sheet prior to cutting out the gussets. Having said all that a T-88 joint is pretty strong if you do everything wrong. If you ever have doubts, try some destructive testing, you'll sleep better at night ;-) . Ben Charvet On 1/29/2012 5:55 PM, rorichts wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "rorichts"<stolflite@gmail.com> > > As for building ribs to what extent if any is sanding the joints and gussets a part of the process? I have been told to hold to a minimum because of the sanded material degrading the integrity of the joint. > thanks > rich > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365167#365167 > > -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center


    Message 24


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    Time: 09:17:24 PM PST US
    From: Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Question about lower fork ends- aluminum struts
    You shouldn't have any=2C especially if the fork is cadmium plated and if y our really concerned=2C used some dielectric compound on the threads. But =2C then=2C like you I am not an engineer. Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio Subject: Pietenpol-List: Question about lower fork ends- aluminum struts From: helspersew@aol.com Gardiner=2C Here are a couple photos showing the jam nut on the fork threads=2C providi ng for the adjustment and locking ability. I am not an engineer=2C I can't imagine a corrosion problem between the fork threads and the 7075 aluminum insert. Maybe someone with more technical knowledge could chime in (Jack or Bill) and give us the official low-down. Hope this helps. Dan Helsper Puryear=2C TN


    Message 25


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    Time: 09:21:29 PM PST US
    From: Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Galvanic Corrosion
    Now that's what we were looking for. However=2C I will say that we put all stainless bolts on our float fittings (non structural) and had zero corros ion after 10yrs. Go figure. Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio From: pietflyr@bellsouth.net Subject: Pietenpol-List: Galvanic Corrosion All right=2C Dan. Now you=92ve done it and inspired my Geekiness to come t o the surface. Let=92s talk a bit about Galvanic Corrosion. This occurs w hen you have dissimilar metals in intimate contact in an environment where they can get wet=2C such as at the ends of lift struts. Not all dissimilar metals cause problems ' it depends on how =93Anodic=94 they are. There is a chart listing the Anodic Index of all common metals. To find the susc eptibility to corrosion of any metal pair=2C find the difference in their a nodic indices ' the corrosion will take place at the more anodic of the p air (this is why on outboard motors that may be run in saltwater you will f ind =93sacrificial anodes=94 of magnesium or zinc on the aluminum casings o f the motor=2C so the corrosion takes place there rather than on the alumin um. The rule of thumb to be safe from galvanic corrosion is to have a differenc e in anodic index of no more than about 0.15 - 0.20 for an outdoor environm ent. Here is the chart: Metal Category Anodic Inde x (volts) Gold=2C solid and plated 0.00 Rhodium plated on Silver-plated Copper 0.05 Silver=2C high Nickel-Copper alloys 0.15 Nickel=2C Titanium=2C Monel 0.30 Copper=2C Silver Solder=2C high Copper-Nickel 0.35 alloys=2C Nickel-Chromium alloys Brasses & Bronzes 0.40 18% Chromium Stainless Steel 0.50 Chromium plating=2C Tin plating 0.60 Tin-Lead solder 0.65 Lead 0.70 Aluminum=2C wrought=2C 2000 series 0.75 Iron=2C plain carbon or low-alloy steel 0.85 Aluminum=2C wrought alloys other than 2000 0.90 series (such as 7075) Cast Aluminum alloys=2C Cadmium plating 0.95 and Chromates Hot-dip Zinc=2C galvanized steel 1.20 Zinc 1.25 Magnesium 1.75 Beryllium 1.85 One of the important things to notice is that cad-plated steel (such as AN aircraft hardware) is not too bad when placed against 2024 series aluminum =2C and is even better against 7075 series. What is surprising to most peo ple is how bad stainless steel is against aluminum (difference of .40 to .5 0). Hope this helps. By the way=2C I changed the subject to hopefully make thi s chart easier to locate in the archives Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake=2C Virginia From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew@aol.com Sent: Sunday=2C January 29=2C 2012 7:32 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Question about lower fork ends- aluminum struts Gardiner=2C Here are a couple photos showing the jam nut on the fork threads=2C providi ng for the adjustment and locking ability. I am not an engineer=2C I can't imagine a corrosion problem between the fork threads and the 7075 aluminum insert. Maybe someone with more technical knowledge could chime in (Jack or Bill) and give us the official low-down. Hope this helps. Dan Helsper Puryear=2C TN




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