Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Sun 02/19/12


Total Messages Posted: 19



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 06:01 AM - Re: Re: paint (C N Campbell)
     2. 06:12 AM - Re: Naked Piet pics 2000 vintage (echobravo4)
     3. 08:37 AM - Drag cables clearance (Kringle)
     4. 08:40 AM - Question Re: Flying Strut Attachment Location (Kringle)
     5. 10:21 AM - Question Re: Flying Strut Attachment Location (K5YAC)
     6. 10:26 AM - Re: Drag cables clearance (Jerry Dotson)
     7. 12:20 PM - Re: Re: paint (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB)
     8. 03:47 PM - Re: Question Re: Flying Strut Attachment Location (Gary Boothe)
     9. 05:29 PM - Shad's Piet fly-in (shad bell)
    10. 05:30 PM - Re: Re: paint (shad bell)
    11. 05:39 PM - Question Re: Flying Strut Attachment Location (Kringle)
    12. 06:02 PM - Re: Question Re: Flying Strut Attachment Location (Gary Boothe)
    13. 06:15 PM - Slick Magneto 48-1 (Overalles)
    14. 07:02 PM - Wing brace wires (Rick Schreiber)
    15. 07:42 PM - Re: Wing brace wires (Greg Cardinal)
    16. 07:54 PM - Re: Question Re: Flying Strut Attachment Location (Jim Boyer)
    17. 08:54 PM - Question Re: Flying Strut Attachment Location (K5YAC)
    18. 08:57 PM - Question Re: Flying Strut Attachment Location (tdudley@umn.edu)
    19. 10:23 PM - spar problem-again (Oscar Zuniga)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 06:01:15 AM PST US
    From: "C N Campbell" <cncampbell@windstream.net>
    Subject: Re: paint
    Clif, mine will be sort of a hybrid. There are some GN-1 parts used but it's mostly Pietenpol. I had a set of GN-1 plans borrowed from a good friend and was thinking about building one, but found there were a lot of rather complicated parts in the GN-1. So I ordered some Piet plans. After they came, I decided on a few of the Grega parts -- like engine mount attachments and rudder cable attachment points. I had started building wing ribs using the Grega rib plan so kept going after the Piet plans came. Didn't want to start over. The ribs are really not that different -- the nose of the rib is a little more round. I seem to remember laying the Piet wing plan over the Grega plan and found there was very little difference. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854@shaw.ca> Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 10:31 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: paint > > Yeah, but is yours a Piet? or a Grega. :-) > > But remember. Hawks came in squadrons, > hundreds of 'em. If those Dawn Patrol guys > can do squadrons then.........? > > Just think. You could have your very own > base at Brodhead. > > Do formation fly by's. With smoke even. :-) > > Drooling yet?? > > Clif > do not archive > >> <cncampbell@windstream.net> >> >> Oh, Fooey. I was going to use that scheme. I'll have to think of >> something else. C >> Do not Archive. > > >


    Message 2


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    Time: 06:12:12 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Naked Piet pics 2000 vintage
    From: "echobravo4" <eab4@comcast.net>
    That is true on the disc brake- I'm a bike mechanic (until Monday-getting a new job!) and straight (or radial laced) wheels can't use a disc brake, the braking forces can pull the spokes from the hub. Actually hubs have to specifically designed for radial lacing because the extra tension required can also pull the flange off the hub. Radial laced wheels- with one set of spokes anyway- are also not as strong in side loads as cross laced wheels. -------- Earl Brown I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366591#366591


    Message 3


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    Time: 08:37:25 AM PST US
    Subject: Drag cables clearance
    From: "Kringle" <Mrkringles@msn.com>
    I have run the strings for the drag cables to see if I need to move any ribs for clearance. My question is how much clearance do I need between the cables and parts of the ribs? Will these cables flex in flight and rub on close rib uprights or diagonals? The plans calls for tape where the cables intersect. Is there a better product out there to keep them from rubbing together? Thanks -------- Do Not Archive John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366612#366612


    Message 4


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    Time: 08:40:06 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Question Re: Flying Strut Attachment Location
    From: "Kringle" <Mrkringles@msn.com>
    Tom I am also at that point and am just going to cut away what is necessary on the rib then reinforce it. I don't want to move it and change the length of the aileron. -------- Do Not Archive John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366613#366613


    Message 5


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    Time: 10:21:55 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Question Re: Flying Strut Attachment Location
    From: "K5YAC" <hangar10@cox.net>
    Tom: I also used the rib spacing as called for in the plans, but if I recall correctly, I think I moved my fitting and other pieces of the assembly away from the ribs in order to change the angle of the lift strut fitting (i.e. orient it in line with the lift strut as other builders have recommended). My lift struts will attach several inches closer to the root because of the relocation, angle change and the fact that I lengthened the fitting by about an inch. When I say several inches closer, I mean about 4-5". This did create a bit of a clearance problem where the drag/anti-drag cables were concerned, which required modification and reinforcement to several vertical or diagonal braces... I think several people have run into this problem. If I were to do it again, I would take the same approach, but I would probably move the entire assembly (plywood backing, lift strut fitting, etc.) as close as I reasonably could to the outer most rib, therefore placing the cable attach points and lift strut geometry closer to what is called for in the plans. The main drawbacks to how I did mine are, 1. The cables did not clear properly and, 2. There is 4-5" more inches of wing beyond the lift strut attachment than are in the original design. Hope this helps! -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366622#366622


    Message 6


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    Time: 10:26:15 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Drag cables clearance
    From: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson@centurylink.net>
    I used 3M 130C which is a rubber insulating tape. I wrapped each cable then wrapped the 2 together. The stuff becomes a solid piece of rubber after a while. On mine now you would have to cut it with a knife to get it off. For the cables that cross on the outside I slid a piece of vacuum hose over the cables and will put a small zip tie around them at assembly time so they slide down the cable. do not archive -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 now covering and painting 21&quot; wheels Lycoming O-235 C2C Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366623#366623


    Message 7


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    Time: 12:20:31 PM PST US
    From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil>
    Subject: Re: paint
    For a real speed mod try these wheel pants that Jim Bede developed: Go in about 2.5 min to see the wheelpants http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMOyNCiMPOQ Blue Skies, Steve D ----- Original Message ----- From: airlion <airlion@bellsouth.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: paint > > hey ya'll. Has anyone tried to build the wheel pants that are in the flying and glider 1932 magazine? Gardiner > > --- On Sat, 2/18/12, Clif Dawson < wrote: > > > From: Clif Dawson < > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: paint > > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > Date: Saturday, February 18, 2012, 10:21 PM > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted > > by: "Clif Dawson" < > > > > Ha! Now we're talkin! :-) > > Needs wheel pants to complete the scheme though. > > > > Clif > > > > > > > Hey Clif, > > > > > > How about now? > > > (although technically, it's a GN-1, rather than a > > Piet) > > > > > > Bill C. > > > > > > Email Forum - > > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > > List Contribution Web Site - > > -Matt > > Dralle, List Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 8


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    Time: 03:47:13 PM PST US
    From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Question Re: Flying Strut Attachment Location
    Tom, This may not help, as I used original drawings for the placement of my lift strut brackets. Since the lift force is up, I have not understood the reasoning for aligning the brackets with the struts. Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of tdudley@umn.edu Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 9:58 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Question Re: Flying Strut Attachment Location --> <tdudley@umn.edu> Hey all, I have a question regarding the location of attachment of the flying strut. I am building the three piece wing and am using 3/4" solid spars. Each half of the wing (not including the center section) is 13' 2.5" per plans. Today I laid out the spars and slid the ribs into position. As I read the plans, the center hole for the flying strut strap attachment to the spars is 79" from the root of the wing half. With my ribs in place, I measured this distance from the root of the wing. This location (79") appears to be only 3/4" from the next (outer) rib. This doesn't seem to be correct as it doesn't leave room for the underlying ply or the 3/4" square compression struts that would be fit in place. I did review westcoast piet pictures as well as some of the other personal build sites (Textor, Markle, Chouinard) to see how others have done it, and none of the pictures I saw have the "spacing" problem I seem to be running into. I spaced my ribs according to Drawing No. 5 of the "Improved" plans (from the outer edge, 4.5, 12, 12.5, 12.5, 12.5, 12.5, 12", etc., moving towards the root). Moving the "offending" rib doesn't seem to be the answer as it will change the aileron length. Did anyone else run into this problem? Or did I space my ribs incorrectly? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks, Tom Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366577#366577


    Message 9


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    Time: 05:29:24 PM PST US
    From: shad bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Shad's Piet fly-in
    Hello group, I am still trying to plan a little fly-in, I am leaning toward s either early july or late august.- I just started a new job so planning this is a little tougher, with no vacation yet.- It is nice to work on b uisness jets (Lears, Gulfstreams, Chanenger, Citation etc) instead of the g reyhound bus type regional airline aircraft.- I am still trying to coordi nate with my friend Shad, yes another Shad, to have one fly-in here in Cent erburg, He has hosted a couple here and they turn out to be fun for all.- We were thinking of having a water ballon bomb drop event, and some other just for the hell of it friendly competitions.- And after the airplanes a re tied down we can have a few cold beverages, and possibly do a movie on t he side of the hangar, But there will be no beating anyone with 2x4's, or l oosining of any foe's axle nuts, as we don't have a pond here to land in. - Corvair bashing and arguments on the best pietenpol landing gear, engine, and covering systems is all fair game.....just make sure to sleep with one eye open ha ha ha. - Shad


    Message 10


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    Time: 05:30:42 PM PST US
    From: shad bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: paint
    Dad and I thought about building some, but our piet is heavy enough already . - Shad --- On Sun, 2/19/12, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB <steven.d.dortch@us.arm y.mil> wrote: From: Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB <steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: paint ven.d.dortch@us.army.mil> For a real speed mod try these wheel pants that Jim Bede developed: Go in about 2.5 min to see the wheelpants http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMOyNCiMPOQ Blue Skies, Steve D ----- Original Message ----- From: airlion <airlion@bellsouth.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: paint > > hey ya'll. Has anyone tried to build the wheel pants that are in the flyi ng and glider 1932 magazine? Gardiner > > --- On Sat, 2/18/12, Clif Dawson < wrote: > > > From: Clif Dawson < > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: paint > > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > Date: Saturday, February 18, 2012, 10:21 PM > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted > > by: "Clif Dawson" < > > > > Ha! Now we're talkin! :-) > > Needs wheel pants to complete the scheme though. > > > > Clif > > > > > > > Hey Clif, > > > > > > How about now? > > > (although technically, it's a GN-1, rather than a > > Piet) > > > > > > Bill C. > > > > > > Email Forum - > > ---- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > > List Contribution Web Site - > > - - - - - - - -Matt > > Dralle, List Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > le, List Admin.


    Message 11


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    Time: 05:39:06 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Question Re: Flying Strut Attachment Location
    From: "Kringle" <Mrkringles@msn.com>
    Gary, why the chain fitting in your drag cables? -------- Do Not Archive John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366662#366662


    Message 12


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    Time: 06:02:48 PM PST US
    From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Question Re: Flying Strut Attachment Location
    Cheaper! They're just 4130. Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kringle Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 5:38 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Question Re: Flying Strut Attachment Location Gary, why the chain fitting in your drag cables? -------- Do Not Archive John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366662#366662


    Message 13


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    Time: 06:15:46 PM PST US
    Subject: Slick Magneto 48-1
    From: "Overalles" <Overalles45@yahoo.com>
    I bought a brand new (old stock) slick 48-1 magneto that I think was for a Lycoming 0290G engine. I want to use this mag on a Ford Model A engine, I do not have any plug wires (Harness) can anyone tell me how to convert this mag to auto plug wires? Or should I just try and sell this mag? Thanks Walter Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366668#366668


    Message 14


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    Time: 07:02:54 PM PST US
    From: Rick Schreiber <lmforge@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Wing brace wires
    I'm getting ready to instal my wings for the first time tomorrow. I was wondering what most builders have used for the cable size for the exterior wire x bracing on the lift struts. I know the plans call for 3/32", but I was just wondering how many went with 1/8". The only reference I could find was from Mike Cuy who went with 1/8" Rick Schreiber Valparaiso IN


    Message 15


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    Time: 07:42:46 PM PST US
    From: "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Wing brace wires
    The lift strut cables on NX18235 are 1/8" . Greg C ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Schreiber" <lmforge@earthlink.net> Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 9:02 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing brace wires > <lmforge@earthlink.net> > > I'm getting ready to instal my wings for the first time tomorrow. I was > wondering what most builders have used for the cable size for the exterior > wire x bracing on the lift struts. I know the plans call for 3/32", but I > was just wondering how many went with 1/8". The only reference I could > find was from Mike Cuy who went with 1/8" > > Rick Schreiber > Valparaiso IN > > >


    Message 16


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    Time: 07:54:59 PM PST US
    From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Question Re: Flying Strut Attachment Location
    Gary, Very nice cable guides; very professional. Jim B. do not archive


    Message 17


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    Time: 08:54:15 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Question Re: Flying Strut Attachment Location
    From: "K5YAC" <hangar10@cox.net>
    I'm not sure if it makes a huge difference one way or another on the alignment of the lift strut attach fittings... I got the idea from Chuck Gantzer's videos and it seemed like a reasonable idea to me, so I did mine that way. Not the greatest drawings, but for anyone that might wonder what we are talking about, the first illustration shows the orientation of the fitting according to the plans and the second illustration shows what Chuck recommends. I'm not sure that he recommended eliminating the top cap, as I did... his suggestion was more about correcting the angle. If I recall, the idea that there may be a twisting motion applied to the fitting was undesirable. I've seen several examples of both, probably not a big deal. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366674#366674 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/lift_strut_fittings002_891.jpg


    Message 18


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    Time: 08:57:37 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Question Re: Flying Strut Attachment Location
    From: "tdudley@umn.edu" <tdudley@umn.edu>
    I'd like to thank everyone for their reply to my question. It was somewhat reassuring to hear others have run into a similar situation; I was afraid I might have measured and spaced my ribs incorrectly. I think, after hearing the responses, I will probably keep the rib in its "per plans" position and modify its attachment such that the flying strut and its underlying ply will fit. I think I'd rather do this than move the lift strut fitting towards the root and shorten the length of the lift strut. Peter, thank you for your quick response. Your website is one I've visited many times in the past (especially when I started my build--inspirational), and I think it is one of the best to re-visit. John, I've been following your build on the mykitplane.com. Let me know if you discover any hints or run into any snags in modifying your rib or placing your lift strut. Mark, sorry if I "called you out" by mentioning you by name in my post, but your build-web-site has been really helpful to me. I use it to "double-check" my work. Gary, helpful advice and pictures as always. Thanks again, Tom Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366675#366675


    Message 19


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    Time: 10:23:51 PM PST US
    From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
    Subject: spar problem-again
    Tim wrote: >Lastly the Piet spar design is very forgiving and already overbuilt. While I would generously characterize the Piet spar design as 'forgiving' since thousands of them have been built over the years with NO catastrophic structural failures and very satisfactory flight operations over thousands of flight hours by untold numbers of pilots, I would not characterize the spar design as 'overbuilt'. Several people have independently run calculations on the spars as designed, and have found them'adequate', but not 'overbuilt'. If anyone intends to modify the wing loading, spar design, airfoil, lift struts, or other aspects of the Piet wing- I strongly advise that they perform a basic structural analysis of what they intend to do and then draw their own conclusions. The Piet fuselage, on the other hand, is widely accepted as being 'overbuilt'. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket" Medford, OR website at http://www.flysquirrel.net/rogueairparts




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