Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:21 AM - Re: My continental twirling muscle is sore. (Jim Ash)
2. 05:22 AM - Re: Re: In Carrollton for a couple days...today.... (Jim Markle)
3. 05:35 AM - Re: Sport Aviation - Mark's Struts (Jim Markle)
4. 05:40 AM - Re: Re: In Carrollton for a couple days...today.... (Gboothe5)
5. 06:54 AM - Re: In Carrollton for a couple days...today.... (tools)
6. 07:29 AM - Re: Re: In Carrollton for a couple days...today.... (Barry Davis)
7. 08:28 AM - Re: My continental twirling muscle is sore. (Dave Nielsen)
8. 10:11 AM - Bendix magneto starting issues (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP])
9. 12:57 PM - Re: Bendix magneto starting issues (Andrew Eldredge)
10. 03:07 PM - Re: Bendix magneto starting issues (Michael Perez)
11. 04:43 PM - Re: Bendix magneto starting issues (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB)
12. 09:17 PM - Re: Bendix magneto starting issues (dgaldrich)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: My continental twirling muscle is sore. |
Some planes had/have none. When I lived in Illinois, I volunteered for the Young
Eagles rallies at Aurora a few times. My plane was elsewhere, so I did ground
support. Sometimes they had a dozen or two aircraft on three or four lines on
the ramp, and flew between 200 and 300 kids in the course of 3 or 4 hours; it
was a big affair. Only a few of us on ground crew knew how to hand-prop a plane,
so we were a little busier than most.
We had a guy who used to show up with a Cub sometimes, with no impulse couplings.
With his engine hot (which was pretty much all the time), it was a bear to
start. There was a sweet spot between none and flooding as to how much primer
he used. If he missed it, you could pull until your arms fell off and nothing
would happen. At least it was an A-65 and not something bigger. I remember once
in the summer standing on the hot ramp and wailing away at it. His starter motor
was about ready to overheat and fail when the engine finally caught. I was
about ready to invite the pilot to start his own engine while I temporarily
manned the controls, as an encouragement to put an impulse coupling on a mag.
Jim Ash
-----Original Message-----
>From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil>
>Sent: Mar 5, 2012 8:56 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My continental twirling muscle is sore.
>
>
>Some planes only had the impulse coupling on one Mag. Not sure why or what planes.
But I have heard some old pilots/mechanics mention it.
>
>Blue Skies,
>Steve D
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Andrew Eldredge <andrew.eldredge@gmail.com>
>Date: Monday, March 5, 2012 18:05
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: My continental twirling muscle is sore.
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
>
>> Time to roll the dice an reveal my ignorance in public. First the
>> story,then questions: I rolled the airplane out of the garage on
>> Saturday night
>> to run the engine for the first time in a few years since it has
>> been down
>> for repairs. Having pulled the engine through a few times to make
>> surethings were lubricated, I switched on the left mag and gave the
>> prop a
>> turn. I repeated the process, a lot. The engine did not start or
>> even act
>> like it might. A whiff of the exhaust led me to believe that there
>> was a
>> fuel mixture reaching the cylinders, so I turned my attention to the
>> ignition system. I decided to check the grounding of the p-leads
>> and was
>> alarmed (initially) that I found continuity between the post and
>> the case.
>> Removing the leads showed me the switch was good. In my state of
>> alarm I
>> took the top off the left mag to check for a short, cracking the sight
>> window in the process. As I probed around in there, It occurred to
>> me that
>> there could be an inductive coupling to the case. A check of a
>> generalschematic supported that Idea. Rats, cracked window for
>> what. A few
>> youtube videos later I started wondering if something was wrong
>> with the
>> impulse coupling. Turning the prop yielded no audible click. Hmm.
>> Thinking back, it seems other experienced pilots have seemed to have
>> struggles starting my airplane, back before I had to fix it.
>> They'd give
>> it a few turns and express some dismay, Then I'd have them hold the
>> airplane while I gave it my usual mighty heave (I've never known
>> anythingdifferent, but sometimes it would be enough to get a full
>> turn out of the
>> prop.) So the possibility that I've never had a functional impulse
>> coupling has now entered my head...
>>
>> Questions:
>> --What can I use for or where can I get a timing sight window
>> (and while
>> I'm at it a lid gasket and other sundry parts) for m SF4RN
>> --Should I be able to hear the impulse coupling click when
>> pulling the
>> propeller around?
>> -- I could stick a bolt in a high tension terminal and feel for
>> a shock,
>> should that give me confidence that the mag is otherwise
>> functional, or
>> should I pull a plug and see if it sparks?
>> --How likely is it that my cores need to be re-magnitized.
>>
>> Thanks for the help...
>> --
>> Andrew Eldredge
>> Provo, UT
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: In Carrollton for a couple days...today.... |
Tools! thanks for the offer! I'm leaving out of Atlanta at 5am on Thursday morning
so Lafayette will be a bit too far this time around....especially as late
as this customer is keeping me onsite!
I come through Atlanta fairly often and you have now been moved to the top of my
list for a visit next time I'm here....like it or not! :-)
Thank you.
JM
-----Original Message-----
>From: tools <n0kkj@yahoo.com>
>Sent: Mar 5, 2012 10:54 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: In Carrollton for a couple days...today....
>
>
>Jim,
>
>I'm probably an hour and a half to an hour and forty five north of you, but you're
welcome to come up and see my shop and Piet. If the wx is good, we could
go for a ride!
>
>I'm in Detroit at the moment but should be home before thursday (possibly tomorrow).
Give me a shout and let me know if you might be interested.
>
>The plane is based in Lafayette GA (9a5) and I live in Chickamauga GA, just a
few miles north of that.
>
>Tools, 423 580 1383 (aka Mike and I'm still up and will be a for a few hours)
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367823#367823
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Sport Aviation - Mark's Struts |
The pictures in Sport Aviation came out really well but I've seen the struts...and
they actually look better than the pictures!
It was nice of Mark to give me credit, especially for something I only passed along
and had learned from someone else...and could have NEVER thought up on my
own....so in reality deserve no credit.
Maybe there would be some interest in a quick demonstration at Brodhead this year...(no,
NOT more vacuum bagging)...maybe on forming control horns "to the plans"...???
It's a very simple process (that I came up with all by myself...kidding!!!).
Just a thought. Might help some of the newer builders see the brilliance
in BHP's original design....and how easy/strong they are when built to
plans. ????
JM
-----Original Message-----
From: Gboothe5
Sent: Mar 5, 2012 6:28 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sport Aviation - Mark's Struts
Pony Express takes a few days extra to make it to California, so I just got my
copy today. Kudos to Matt Paxton and Mark Chouinard! and to Jimmy The Bag! Giving
credit where credit is duethanks to EAA for including some grass roots stuff!!
Gary from Cool
NX308MB
Do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: In Carrollton for a couple days...today.... |
He'll have to change his handle to, "No Tools."
Gary from Cool
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 5:23 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: In Carrollton for a couple days...today....
Tools! thanks for the offer! I'm leaving out of Atlanta at 5am on Thursday morning
so Lafayette will be a bit too far this time around....especially as late
as this customer is keeping me onsite!
I come through Atlanta fairly often and you have now been moved to the top of my
list for a visit next time I'm here....like it or not! :-)
Thank you.
JM
-----Original Message-----
>From: tools <n0kkj@yahoo.com>
>Sent: Mar 5, 2012 10:54 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: In Carrollton for a couple days...today....
>
>
>Jim,
>
>I'm probably an hour and a half to an hour and forty five north of you, but you're
welcome to come up and see my shop and Piet. If the wx is good, we could
go for a ride!
>
>I'm in Detroit at the moment but should be home before thursday (possibly tomorrow).
Give me a shout and let me know if you might be interested.
>
>The plane is based in Lafayette GA (9a5) and I live in Chickamauga GA, just a
few miles north of that.
>
>Tools, 423 580 1383 (aka Mike and I'm still up and will be a for a few hours)
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367823#367823
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: In Carrollton for a couple days...today.... |
I like it! Looking good so far to head home today. If tomorrow is just one of
those exception nice days, I wouldn't mind flying south to meet you somewhere
as well. Haven't taken her anywhere but local since the big journey home. Just
sitting here in a lounge on short call, don't really have anything better
to do than go play around on runwayfinder... see what's on the way. When I'm home,
I'm just home, no work schedule to work around on those days.
I have a very eclectic schedule, so just call and see if I'm around next time around
or whenever. I'm not the type who needs advance notice, however, if you
do know ahead of time, I can try to play with my sked to increase the odds of
being there.
Cheers,
Tools, or Notools, or Notyetools, or whatever!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367852#367852
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: In Carrollton for a couple days...today.... |
Wow another Piet close by!
You could fly to Carrollton this Saturday, we are flying 125 or so Young
Eagles (if the weather holds). Or we might fly up to see you at another
time. Don't think we could get lost as it is just up US Hwy 27.
Barry Davis
NX973BP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of tools
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 9:54 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: In Carrollton for a couple days...today....
I like it! Looking good so far to head home today. If tomorrow is just one
of those exception nice days, I wouldn't mind flying south to meet you
somewhere as well. Haven't taken her anywhere but local since the big
journey home. Just sitting here in a lounge on short call, don't really
have anything better to do than go play around on runwayfinder... see what's
on the way. When I'm home, I'm just home, no work schedule to work around on
those days.
I have a very eclectic schedule, so just call and see if I'm around next
time around or whenever. I'm not the type who needs advance notice,
however, if you do know ahead of time, I can try to play with my sked to
increase the odds of being there.
Cheers,
Tools, or Notools, or Notyetools, or whatever!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367852#367852
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: My continental twirling muscle is sore. |
Andrew, Most SF4RN-8 Mags do not have a impulse coupling. There were a few
but not many. If you hear a clank in the engine as it turns over then you h
ave an impulse. If no clank you don't have an impulse. You will have to mod
ify your Armstrong starter procedure. It requires a good hard twist to get
the most fire outta you mags. Good luck Bro.
Dave
Dave Nielsen
sentuchows@aol.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Eldredge <andrew.eldredge@gmail.com>
Sent: Mon, Mar 5, 2012 6:58 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: My continental twirling muscle is sore.
Time to roll the dice an reveal my ignorance in public. First the story, t
hen questions: I rolled the airplane out of the garage on Saturday night t
o run the engine for the first time in a few years since it has been down f
or repairs. Having pulled the engine through a few times to make sure thin
gs were lubricated, I switched on the left mag and gave the prop a turn. I
repeated the process, a lot. The engine did not start or even act like it
might. A whiff of the exhaust led me to believe that there was a fuel mix
ture reaching the cylinders, so I turned my attention to the ignition syste
m. I decided to check the grounding of the p-leads and was alarmed (initia
lly) that I found continuity between the post and the case. Removing the l
eads showed me the switch was good. In my state of alarm I took the top of
f the left mag to check for a short, cracking the sight window in the proce
ss. As I probed around in there, It occurred to me that there could be an
inductive coupling to the case. A check of a general schematic supported t
hat Idea. Rats, cracked window for what. A few youtube videos later I sta
rted wondering if something was wrong with the impulse coupling. Turning t
he prop yielded no audible click. Hmm. Thinking back, it seems other exper
ienced pilots have seemed to have struggles starting my airplane, back befo
re I had to fix it. They'd give it a few turns and express some dismay, Th
en I'd have them hold the airplane while I gave it my usual mighty heave (I
've never known anything different, but sometimes it would be enough to get
a full turn out of the prop.) So the possibility that I've never had a fu
nctional impulse coupling has now entered my head...
Questions:
--What can I use for or where can I get a timing sight window (and while
I'm at it a lid gasket and other sundry parts) for m SF4RN
--Should I be able to hear the impulse coupling click when pulling the p
ropeller around?
-- I could stick a bolt in a high tension terminal and feel for a shock,
should that give me confidence that the mag is otherwise functional, or sh
ould I pull a plug and see if it sparks?
--How likely is it that my cores need to be re-magnitized.
Thanks for the help...
--
Andrew Eldredge
Provo, UT
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Bendix magneto starting issues |
Andrew,
Sorry to hear you're having starting issues. Dumb question but did you
try starting the engine on the R mag only? Most small non-electric
Continentals use an impulse on the L mag and non-impulse on the right and t
hat's the way my Piet is setup but I always start on both because
it just starts easier that way.
You may in fact have an impulse mag on the L but the spring may be broken.
A photo of the spring is shown in this web page.
http://www.sacskyranch.com/bendix.htm
Mike C.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Bendix magneto starting issues |
I did not try starting on the right mag only, but I did give it a few turns
on "both."
What are the consequences in terms of materials/tools needed if I decide to
pull a mag to inspect for the coupling. Listening while the engine turns,
I can hear air leaking around a bit and what sounds like the valve trains
moving around, but no click or anything like what I think the coupling
should sound like.
Thanks,
Andrew
On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 11:10 AM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE
CORP] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote:
> Andrew, ****
>
> ** **
>
> Sorry to hear you=92re having starting issues. Dumb question but did
you
> try starting the engine on the R mag only? Most small non-electric**
*
> *
>
> Continentals use an impulse on the L mag and non-impulse on the right and
> that=92s the way my Piet is setup but I always start on both because****
>
> it just starts easier that way. ****
>
> ** **
>
> You may in fact have an impulse mag on the L but the spring may be
> broken. A photo of the spring is shown in this web page. ****
>
> ** **
>
> http://www.sacskyranch.com/bendix.htm****
>
> ** **
>
> Mike C. ****
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
--
Andrew Eldredge
Provo, UT
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Bendix magneto starting issues |
Andrew, I have not worked on any magnetos since my A&P school years ago, ho
wever, I WILL be soon as I go through and rebuild my engine. Do you have an
overhaul/rebuild manual for your specific mag.?- From what I have seen i
n my manuals, ( Eisemann )fixing/repairing mags. is pretty straight forward
. I bet you could fix what ails your mag.(s) no problem.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Bendix magneto starting issues |
In the "real" plane world (Certified.) There can be only one. Slick seems to have
taken over the world.
My buddies 65HP Champ Had bendix mags. We could not find parts for them to overhaul
them. So he bought new slick mags, wire harnesses, and plugs. Sure runs good.Sure
was expensive (I think about $2300 after core exchange.)
TCM (Continental) owns Bendix but seems to not be producing parts.
Champion spark plugs owns Slick.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bendix magneto starting issues
> Andrew, I have not worked on any magnetos since my A&P school years
> ago, however, I WILL be soon as I go through and rebuild my engine.
> Do you have an overhaul/rebuild manual for your specific mag.?
> From what I have seen in my manuals, ( Eisemann )fixing/repairing
> mags. is pretty straight forward. I bet you could fix what ails
> your mag.(s) no problem.
>
> Michael Perez
> Karetaker Aero
> www.karetakeraero.com
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Bendix magneto starting issues |
As Mike says, mags really are pretty simple devices. They come apart in a straight
forward manner and actually do have a set of internal points like older cars
for what is called "internal" timing. Remember "dwell"? In any event, the
shop manual will tell you how to take them apart, inspect, and reassemble.
Magnetos are very similar to the kind of ignition systems many of us grew up playing
with in cars. A magnetic field is created in a coil and its collapse generates
a spark. With cars, the power to create this field comes from the battery.
In magnetos, the field is generated internally by what amounts to a permanent
magnet generator. Same field collapsing principle creating a high voltage
spark but the power source is different. In both cars and aircraft magnetos,
this collapse is triggered by points. With cars, you effectively set the
timing twice -- first internally by setting the points gap -- aka dwell -- and
second externally by setting the distributor. Same with magnetos. You set the
points and then set the external timing.
In both cases the points have a capacitor across them to absorb the voltage spike
when the points open and that prevents the points from burning up in a tiny
imitation of an arc welder. Note that a defective condenser will mess up the
process if it's either open ("not condensing") and causing the points to burn
up, or if it's shorted out keeping the points from doing anything productive.
I've seen both in the venerable Lucas ignition systems well known by fans of
English cars, but I digress.
The point of this rather long post is that it's probably worthwhile looking deeper
into the guts of the magneto rather than fixating on the impulse coupling.
If you've got it out, there's no excuse not to.
Dave
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367909#367909
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