Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Wed 03/07/12


Total Messages Posted: 23



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 07:02 AM - Re: Re: Bendix magneto starting issues (SKIP GADD)
     2. 10:38 AM - Re: Re: Bendix magneto starting issues (Jim Ash)
     3. 10:53 AM - Re: Re: Bendix magneto starting issues (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB)
     4. 10:55 AM - Landing gear type: Pros and Cons, Steel or wood? (Mark Roberts)
     5. 11:29 AM - Re: Landing gear type: Pros and Cons, Steel or wood? (tools)
     6. 11:56 AM - Re: Landing gear type: Pros and Cons, Steel or wood? (899PM)
     7. 12:08 PM - Re: Landing gear type: Pros and Cons, Steel or wood? (Michael Groah)
     8. 01:00 PM - Re: Landing gear type: Pros and Cons, Steel or wood? (Jack Phillips)
     9. 01:12 PM - Re: Sport Aviation - Mark's Struts (K5YAC)
    10. 01:48 PM - Re: Landing gear type: Pros and Cons, Steel or wood? (Jack@textors.com)
    11. 02:04 PM - Re: Bendix magneto starting issues (dgaldrich)
    12. 02:18 PM - Re: Re: Landing gear type: Pros and Cons, Steel or wood? (Gboothe5)
    13. 02:21 PM - Re: Landing gear type: Pros and Cons, Steel or wood? (Catdesigns)
    14. 02:43 PM - Re: Landing gear type: Pros and Cons, Steel or wood? (Don Emch)
    15. 02:44 PM - Re: Landing gear type: Pros and Cons, Steel or wood? (Gboothe5)
    16. 02:51 PM - Re: Re: Landing gear type: Pros and Cons, Steel or wood? (Jack Phillips)
    17. 03:13 PM - Re: Landing gear type: Pros and Cons, Steel or wood? (Don Emch)
    18. 03:42 PM - bungees (shad bell)
    19. 04:46 PM - How's Douwe? (Lawrence Williams)
    20. 07:45 PM - Re: Re: Landing gear type: Pros and Cons, Steel or wood? (Ray Krause)
    21. 07:54 PM - Re: Landing gear type: Pros and Cons, Steel or wood? (kevinpurtee)
    22. 09:26 PM - Re: Landing gear type: Pros and Cons, Steel or wood? (aerocarjake)
    23. 09:26 PM - Re: Landing gear type: Pros and Cons, Steel or wood? (Mark Roberts)
 
 
 


Message 1


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 07:02:58 AM PST US
    From: SKIP GADD <skipgadd@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: Bendix magneto starting issues
    Hi Dave, Good post, I now understand a little more about mags. Are you and Sue going to join us at Camp Cow Pie? It sounds like we can use the help at the Sun&Fun wood shop. Skip Do not archive -----Original Message----- >From: dgaldrich <dgaldrich@embarqmail.com> >Sent: Mar 7, 2012 12:17 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bendix magneto starting issues > > >As Mike says, mags really are pretty simple devices. They come apart in a straight forward manner and actually do have a set of internal points like older cars for what is called "internal" timing. Remember "dwell"? In any event, the shop manual will tell you how to take them apart, inspect, and reassemble. > >Magnetos are very similar to the kind of ignition systems many of us grew up playing with in cars. A magnetic field is created in a coil and its collapse generates a spark. With cars, the power to create this field comes from the battery. In magnetos, the field is generated internally by what amounts to a permanent magnet generator. Same field collapsing principle creating a high voltage spark but the power source is different. In both cars and aircraft magnetos, this collapse is triggered by points. With cars, you effectively set the timing twice -- first internally by setting the points gap -- aka dwell -- and second externally by setting the distributor. Same with magnetos. You set the points and then set the external timing. > >In both cases the points have a capacitor across them to absorb the voltage spike when the points open and that prevents the points from burning up in a tiny imitation of an arc welder. Note that a defective condenser will mess up the process if it's either open ("not condensing") and causing the points to burn up, or if it's shorted out keeping the points from doing anything productive. I've seen both in the venerable Lucas ignition systems well known by fans of English cars, but I digress. > >The point of this rather long post is that it's probably worthwhile looking deeper into the guts of the magneto rather than fixating on the impulse coupling. If you've got it out, there's no excuse not to. > >Dave


    Message 2


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 10:38:04 AM PST US
    From: Jim Ash <ashcan@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: Bendix magneto starting issues
    Breaker points short out the condenser (capacitor) when closed. This allows the battery to directly (through a resistor, technically) 'charge' the coil, using the dc electricity from the battery to build up a magnetic field in the coil. In a magneto-driven system, the magnet wizzing by the coil induces an electric current in the coil when the points are closed, which in turn creates its own magnetic field. For this part of the discussion the coil behaves like an inductor. Inductors store energy using a magnetic field. In either system, it takes time to build up that magnetic field; it doesn't happen instantly. That's what the dwell is for - To give the system time to store some energy. In engine terms, this time is not trivial. When the points open, the condenser (which has been shorted out and is empty) is now a part of the circuit, in series with the coil/inductor. The magnetic field in the coil induces an electric current through the condenser, which stores it up (with some real-world losses). As the magnetic field pours it's energy into the condenser, it collapses (this is where the coil also behaves like a transformer) and induces a high voltage in the secondary windings, creating the spark. But the condenser is much more than a just an added doo-dad to keep your points from burning out (although it does that, too); it's an integral part of the system. The catch here is that the coil and the capacitor form a resonant circuit, known to the electronics types as an LC circuit, or a tank circuit. Mechanically, picture a weight suspended between two springs of the same size and strength. If you pull the weight to one side and let go, it will wangle back and forth at a specific frequency until real-world forces dampen it and stop it. Same deal with the coil and the condenser; it will cycle back and forth between storing current in the coil and storing voltage in the cap. If you hooked it up to an oscilloscope, you'd see a classic dampened harmonic motion. This repeated cycling induces a lot of alternating voltage at a specific frequency in the coil secondary over a decent period of time and is really where a good strong spark comes from. Without the condenser, the voltage in the coil would change once when the points closed and once when they opened, which, if you're lucky, might be enough to create a weak spark. The LC resonance is the key. This process requires that the condenser be matched to the coil to work most effectively. The coil has a certain inductance and the condenser has a certain capacitance. Each one of these has its own frequency characteristics. Pairing them up creates a specific resonant frequency dependent on both components. But if they're not matched (like a burned-out condenser), the resonant frequency changes. Picture the spring example with two different springs. Jim Ash -----Original Message----- >From: dgaldrich <dgaldrich@embarqmail.com> >Sent: Mar 7, 2012 12:17 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bendix magneto starting issues > > >As Mike says, mags really are pretty simple devices. They come apart in a straight forward manner and actually do have a set of internal points like older cars for what is called "internal" timing. Remember "dwell"? In any event, the shop manual will tell you how to take them apart, inspect, and reassemble. > >Magnetos are very similar to the kind of ignition systems many of us grew up playing with in cars. A magnetic field is created in a coil and its collapse generates a spark. With cars, the power to create this field comes from the battery. In magnetos, the field is generated internally by what amounts to a permanent magnet generator. Same field collapsing principle creating a high voltage spark but the power source is different. In both cars and aircraft magnetos, this collapse is triggered by points. With cars, you effectively set the timing twice -- first internally by setting the points gap -- aka dwell -- and second externally by setting the distributor. Same with magnetos. You set the points and then set the external timing. > >In both cases the points have a capacitor across them to absorb the voltage spike when the points open and that prevents the points from burning up in a tiny imitation of an arc welder. Note that a defective condenser will mess up the process if it's either open ("not condensing") and causing the points to burn up, or if it's shorted out keeping the points from doing anything productive. I've seen both in the venerable Lucas ignition systems well known by fans of English cars, but I digress. > >The point of this rather long post is that it's probably worthwhile looking deeper into the guts of the magneto rather than fixating on the impulse coupling. If you've got it out, there's no excuse not to. > >Dave > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367909#367909 > >


    Message 3


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 10:53:15 AM PST US
    From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil>
    Subject: Re: Bendix magneto starting issues
    For a good review of Mags and mag problems check out this EAA video. http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=1367499350001 The guy is truely an expert. Blue Skies, Steve D


    Message 4


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 10:55:32 AM PST US
    Subject: Landing gear type: Pros and Cons, Steel or wood?
    From: "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com>
    Please forgive me if this is redundant. I thought I had asked a while back, but my search proved futile. So, I wish to tap the wisdom of this collected intelligentsia... I am prepping for the Landing Gear install, thus I need to decide on the style I want. My wife and I both like the spoke'd tire look, so those would be the tire style we will use. I haven't seen those on a steel gear, so I'm not sure how it would look, or whether the added size would prove problematic to the gear strength. The main dis-advantage to the wooden gear to me is what I have heard about the 'wobble' of the axle in the platform that it rides on due to the shock cord mount. I have heard the axle will move slightly forward and rearward as you turn corners, making it slightly 'wiggly'. Other than that it looks like an easier option to build for me, and cheaper. But, this is the project of a lifetime, so the added work and money is not as important as the ultimate usefulness of the choice. I will fly almost exclusively from paved runways (can only think of one grass field I would fly to at the annual west coast piet fly-in...). I am looking for pros and cons, do's and don'ts, thoughts and suggestions regarding the choice from those that have thought about such things :o) Many thanks! BTW, The Mrs. in the first seat below :o) Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367931#367931 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/20120303_124947_160.jpg


    Message 5


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 11:29:09 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Landing gear type: Pros and Cons, Steel or wood?
    From: "tools" <n0kkj@yahoo.com>
    Kevin Purtee has spoke wheels with steel gear. I got a ride and thought it felt great. I know he's not a fan of bungee, as he had problems with it and switched to a spring. My Piet is the classic Harley wheel with wood gear. Many aren't sure about the suitability of a stock motorcycle wheel. I learned to fly a tailwheel in this plane and taught my son... needless to say it's got a workout and is holding up fine. I don't mind the wobble at all, and never really noticed it until you mentioned it. Again, the bungee is a bit of a pain in that it does regularly wear out, but not that hard to replace, nor very expensive. While I thought I'd fly mostly grass, the truth is that I'm about 95 percent on pavement and the wood gear/straight axle hasn't proved problematic in that venue at all. Lastly, I did have to replace one of the wood members of my gear as I noticed some cracking. I'm quite certain that damaged occurred as a result of an aborted takeoff that went off runway. The point is, I noticed the damage well before the gear failed and it was easy to fix. Had it been a weldment that wasn't up to the task (either faulty weld or excessive force) I'm not sure that would be the case. Having pushed around a few cubs, champs and chiefs, I think the larger diameter wheels are easier if that's a concern. Things to consider. Pretty sure either would be fine! Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367933#367933


    Message 6


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 11:56:53 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Landing gear type: Pros and Cons, Steel or wood?
    From: "899PM" <rockriverrifle@hotmail.com>
    Big Wheels...spokes hiding under covers. My intent was to create a faux Bendix look. -------- PAPA MIKE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367935#367935 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_4163_388.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_4168_686.jpg


    Message 7


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 12:08:44 PM PST US
    From: Michael Groah <dskogrover@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Landing gear type: Pros and Cons, Steel or wood?
    Mark that is looking good.-- I'm going to have to find some time to com e up to Fresno and see that thing.- =0A=0A=0AMike Groah=0A=0Ado not archi ve=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbr ts1@gmail.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Wednesday, March 7, 2012 10:55 AM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear type: Pros and Co s" <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com>=0A=0APlease forgive me if this is redundant. I t hought I had asked a while back, but my search proved futile. So, I wish to tap the wisdom of this collected intelligentsia...=0A=0AI am prepping for the Landing Gear install, thus I need to decide on the style I want. My wif e and I both like the spoke'd tire look, so those would be the tire style w e will use. I haven't seen those on a steel gear, so I'm not sure how it wo uld look, or whether the added size would prove problematic to the gear str ength.=0A=0AThe main dis-advantage to the wooden gear to me is what I have heard about the 'wobble' of the axle in the platform that it rides on due t o the shock cord mount. I have heard the axle will move slightly forward an d rearward as you turn corners, making it slightly 'wiggly'. Other than tha t it looks like an easier option to build for me, and cheaper. But, this is the project of a lifetime, so the added work and money is not as important as the ultimate usefulness of the choice. I will fly almost exclusively fr om paved runways (can only think of one grass field I would fly to at the a nnual west coast piet fly-in...).=0A=0AI am looking for pros and cons, do's and don'ts, thoughts and suggestions regarding the choice from those that have thought about such things :o)=0A=0AMany thanks!=0A=0ABTW, The Mrs. in the first seat below :o)=0A=0AMark=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online her e:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367931#367931=0A=0A =0A=0A=0AAttachments: =0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com//files/20120303_124 =


    Message 8


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 01:00:48 PM PST US
    From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Landing gear type: Pros and Cons, Steel or wood?
    The main disadvantage to the wooden straight axle gear is actually the weight. That axle is heavy, as are the wire wheels (but if you are doing wire wheels regardless, then that doesn't matter). As for "wobble", I've never noticed it in 260 hours of flying. I have guide pins on my axle to restrain it from rotating when braking, and it does moved around fore and aft a bit when braking, but nothing that is any problem at all. The wooden gear is extremely rugged (which is why Curtiss JN-4's used it). The biggest advantage to the straight axle is that camber and toe-in problems simply don't exist. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 1:55 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear type: Pros and Cons, Steel or wood? Please forgive me if this is redundant. I thought I had asked a while back, but my search proved futile. So, I wish to tap the wisdom of this collected intelligentsia... I am prepping for the Landing Gear install, thus I need to decide on the style I want. My wife and I both like the spoke'd tire look, so those would be the tire style we will use. I haven't seen those on a steel gear, so I'm not sure how it would look, or whether the added size would prove problematic to the gear strength. The main dis-advantage to the wooden gear to me is what I have heard about the 'wobble' of the axle in the platform that it rides on due to the shock cord mount. I have heard the axle will move slightly forward and rearward as you turn corners, making it slightly 'wiggly'. Other than that it looks like an easier option to build for me, and cheaper. But, this is the project of a lifetime, so the added work and money is not as important as the ultimate usefulness of the choice. I will fly almost exclusively from paved runways (can only think of one grass field I would fly to at the annual west coast piet fly-in...). I am looking for pros and cons, do's and don'ts, thoughts and suggestions regarding the choice from those that have thought about such things :o) Many thanks! BTW, The Mrs. in the first seat below :o) Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367931#367931 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/20120303_124947_160.jpg


    Message 9


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 01:12:48 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Sport Aviation - Mark's Struts
    From: "K5YAC" <hangar10@cox.net>
    dfwplt wrote: > It's a very simple process (that I came up with all by myself...kidding!!!). > JM > -- What do you mean, "kidding"... you told me that you DID invent the process. I've already credited you in my next article, "Bernard Pietenpol - The Man, The Myth, The Markler" I'm sure that there are more similarities than we know. Do not archive -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367940#367940


    Message 10


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 01:48:14 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Landing gear type: Pros and Cons, Steel or wood?
    From: "Jack@textors.com" <jack@textors.com>
    Yes she is, nice fuselage too... Do not archive Jack Textor Sent from my iPad On Mar 7, 2012, at 2:08 PM, Michael Groah <dskogrover@yahoo.com> wrote: > Mark that is looking good. I'm going to have to find some time to come u p to Fresno and see that thing. > > Mike Groah > > do not archive > From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com> > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2012 10:55 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear type: Pros and Cons, Steel or wood? > m> > > Please forgive me if this is redundant. I thought I had asked a while back , but my search proved futile. So, I wish to tap the wisdom of this collecte d intelligentsia... > > I am prepping for the Landing Gear install, thus I need to decide on the s tyle I want. My wife and I both like the spoke'd tire look, so those would b e the tire style we will use. I haven't seen those on a steel gear, so I'm n ot sure how it would look, or whether the added size would prove problematic to the gear strength. > > The main dis-advantage to the wooden gear to me is what I have heard about the 'wobble' of the axle in the platform that it rides on due to the shock c ord mount. I have heard the axle will move slightly forward and rearward as y ou turn corners, making it slightly 'wiggly'. Other than that it looks like a n easier option to build for me, and cheaper. But, this is the project of a l ifetime, so the added work and money is not as important as the ultimate use fulness of the choice. I will fly almost exclusively from paved runways (can only think of one grass field I would fly to at the annual west coast piet f ly-in...). > > I am looking for pros and cons, do's and don'ts, thoughts and suggestions r egarding the choice from those that have thought about such things :o) > > Many thanks! > > BTW, The Mrs. in the first seat below :o) > > Mark > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367931#367931 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronicsp; --> > > > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= >


    Message 11


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 02:04:07 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Bendix magneto starting issues
    From: "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich@embarqmail.com>
    Skip: Yes, Sue and are are planning on being at Sun n Fun the whole time. Jim: I think the LC resonance frequency is much higher than the system cycle frequency which is 2 times engine speed and actually needs to be. Ignition systems are, as you describe, an LC circuit but it isn't in resonance. Look at it this way. The points close. This discharges the capacitor almost instantly and current starts flowing in the inductor. Note that the capacitor is not electrically present since it's shorted. The field builds up. If you put an oscilloscope on it and watched CURRENT, it would start from 0 and rise on a parabolic curve to the point where, given enough time, it would hit a maximum determined by the ohmic resistance of the coil. If there were a large iron core (picture a wire wrapped around a nail in science class), you'd have an electromagnet. Some time before this steady state maximum occurs, the points open. Current flow stops almost instantaneously. With no voltage present, the field collapses but the energy has to go somewhere. The low voltage winding of the coil sees a, maybe .016 air gap, but the 14 volts can't jump that. The secondary coil, on the other hand can generate several thousand volts and can jump your .032 spark plug gap with ease. It's the path of least resistance. Note that when the points first open, the gap is VERY small and the collapsing field from the low voltage winding CAN jump it. The condenser absorbs just enough of the the current to allow the points to fully open without excessive arcing. There is no resonance in the "tuned circuit" sense like you find in radios. The better analogy is that the coil is an AC transformer. If you look at the current waveform in the low voltage side, it really is a sawtooth but with curved "sides". The frequency is determined by the physical speed of the rotating cam opening and closing the points. I'm hoping the drawing attached makes sense. Note that as the rpm increases, the amount of time available to build up the field goes down and the spark gets weaker You are correct that the condenser and coil must be compatible. If the condenser is too small, it won't be able to absorb enough energy to allow the points to open cleanly. If it is too large, the current flowing when the points close and discharge it will also burn them. Again, it's not a "tuned" circuit. Hope this helps. Dave Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367946#367946 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/points_1_198.jpg


    Message 12


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 02:18:29 PM PST US
    From: "Gboothe5" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Landing gear type: Pros and Cons, Steel or wood?
    Papa Mike - very nice looking wheel covers! Gary Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of 899PM Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 11:56 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Landing gear type: Pros and Cons, Steel or wood? Big Wheels...spokes hiding under covers. My intent was to create a faux Bendix look. -------- PAPA MIKE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367935#367935 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_4163_388.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_4168_686.jpg


    Message 13


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 02:21:46 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Landing gear type: Pros and Cons, Steel or wood?
    From: "Catdesigns" <Catdesigns@att.net>
    Mark I was in the same boat as you a few years ago. I did the same kind of mission evaluation and have a similar paved runway outlook as you. It made me think the split axle would be better. However, after asking around I could find no reason not to build the wood gear. One big deciding factor for me was I just didnt have the confidence to build the steel gear and I needed to get the project moving as other parts had frustrated me to the point where I wasnt working on the plane anymore. While trying to decide between the two I modified the attached pictures to give me an idea how the landing gear choice would change the overall appearance of the plane. For me the final look of the plane is very important. Basically I would pick the one you think looks the best. Wood Gear Pros: Vintage look Unique No toe in or toe out problems. Simpler to build. People question your sanity. Cons: The axel and spreader bar are close to the ground and might catch on tall grass or other things like runway lights if you find yourself in a bad situation. Need to stop axel rotation if you use brakes. Heavy People question your sanity If you like to be unique, everyone seems to be building the wood gear lately. -------- Chris Sacramento, CA WestCoastPiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367948#367948 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/picture1_504.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/picture2_178.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/picture3_151.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/picture4_964.jpg


    Message 14


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 02:43:39 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Landing gear type: Pros and Cons, Steel or wood?
    From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir@aol.com>
    There are quite a few out there that have the wire wheels and the split axle gear. I chose to cover mine. Mr. Pietenpol went this route with 12988 and left them uncovered. I'm happy with the set up. Other than changing bungees every couple of years it works out well. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367949#367949 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/wheel08_435.png http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet08_171.png


    Message 15


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 02:44:49 PM PST US
    From: "Gboothe5" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: Landing gear type: Pros and Cons, Steel or wood?
    Mark, Your getting Mrs. Roberts emotionally invested.smart man! Has she had a ride yet? Maybe this year with Charlie Miller? There are a couple ways to steady up the axel, though I have never heard the complaints you mention (at least, not in the form of a complaint). 'Tools' brings up a good point, having once suffered the failure of a welded gear myself. Similar to points vs. electronic ignition on our Corvairs, points will usually give you symptoms of an upcoming failure, while electronic just quits.same with welds vs. wood, although Kevin explained a process that he used to build more reliability into his welded gear. In the end, I think you have to decide which looks better to you. I am told that pretty women literally swoon when a wood gear, wire wheeled Piet rolls up.but that may be a rumor. I see that you are almost ready to start on your turtle decks. I might offer a suggestion, an idea I picked up from Jim Boyer: Make your fire wall plywood first. Mount some dowels to the airframe so that the plywood can be removed and replaced, in its exact location, as many times as necessary. You may find, as I did, that it's handy to use that as a tracing template on other parts, such as the other turtle deck formers, instrument panel, firewall metal, firewall metal formers, etc., not to mention, that you can remove it to have forward access to the rudder pedals as you build and install them. In the end, you merely glue and nail and cut the dowels flush. Gary from Cool From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Groah Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 12:08 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear type: Pros and Cons, Steel or wood? Mark that is looking good. I'm going to have to find some time to come up to Fresno and see that thing. Mike Groah do not archive _____ From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2012 10:55 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear type: Pros and Cons, Steel or wood? Please forgive me if this is redundant. I thought I had asked a while back, but my search proved futile. So, I wish to tap the wisdom of this collected intelligentsia... I am prepping for the Landing Gear install, thus I need to decide on the style I want. My wife and I both like the spoke'd tire look, so those would be the tire style we will use. I haven't seen those on a steel gear, so I'm not sure how it would look, or whether the added size would prove problematic to the gear strength. The main dis-advantage to the wooden gear to me is what I have heard about the 'wobble' of the axle in the platform that it rides on due to the shock cord mount. I have heard the axle will move slightly forward and rearward as you turn corners, making it slightly 'wiggly'. Other than that it looks like an easier option to build for me, and cheaper. But, this is the project of a lifetime, so the added work and money is not as important as the ultimate usefulness of the choice. I will fly almost exclusively from paved runways (can only think of one grass field I would fly to at the annual west coast piet fly-in...). I am looking for pros and cons, do's and don'ts, thoughts and suggestions regarding the choice from those that have thought about such things :o) Many thanks! BTW, The Mrs. in the first seat below :o) Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367931#367931 Attachments: http://forums.matronicsp; --> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> Pietenpol-List Email Forum - List Features Navigator to browse utilities such as List Un/Subscription, Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, much much more: http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List


    Message 16


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 02:51:08 PM PST US
    From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: Landing gear type: Pros and Cons, Steel or wood?
    Unfortunately, Don, the straight axle version also requires changing the bungees every couple of years - my least favorite airplane task in the world. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Emch Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 5:41 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Landing gear type: Pros and Cons, Steel or wood? There are quite a few out there that have the wire wheels and the split axle gear. I chose to cover mine. Mr. Pietenpol went this route with 12988 and left them uncovered. I'm happy with the set up. Other than changing bungees every couple of years it works out well. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367949#367949 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/wheel08_435.png http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet08_171.png


    Message 17


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 03:13:42 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Landing gear type: Pros and Cons, Steel or wood?
    From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir@aol.com>
    Yeah... I'm up for it this year. [Crying or Very sad] Been preparing...mentally and physically! Ha! Not a fun task. I have streamlined the process a little though. The main requirement is cussing. Unfortunately because of that I can't train the kids to help for a few more years. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367952#367952


    Message 18


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 03:42:46 PM PST US
    From: shad bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
    Subject: bungees
    We use the straight bungee, with home made loops on the ends, not too bad o f a job installing them, just getting them the right length, and getting bo th the same so the airplane does not list one way-or the other, thats the tuffy. (wow what a run on sentence)- Looking forward to the warm weather , havn't flown since December 15th or so, and the new job should let me fly on the weekends. - Shad


    Message 19


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 04:46:31 PM PST US
    From: Lawrence Williams <lnawms@yahoo.com>
    Subject: How's Douwe?
    Douwe- I just heard from my son-in-law and he told me about the tornadoes last Friday in your area. Just wondered if you were affected. Let us know.... Larry do not archive


    Message 20


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 07:45:08 PM PST US
    From: "Ray Krause" <raykrause@frontiernet.net>
    Subject: Re: Landing gear type: Pros and Cons, Steel or wood?
    Papa Mike, How did you make the wheel covers, and how are they attached to the wheel? Surely they are not riveted to the rim? Thanks, Ray Krause Sky Scout in progress ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gboothe5" <gboothe5@comcast.net> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 2:17 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Landing gear type: Pros and Cons, Steel or wood? > > Papa Mike - very nice looking wheel covers! > > Gary > Do not archive > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of 899PM > Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 11:56 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Landing gear type: Pros and Cons, Steel or > wood? > > > Big Wheels...spokes hiding under covers. My intent was to create a faux > Bendix look. > > -------- > PAPA MIKE > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367935#367935 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_4163_388.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_4168_686.jpg > > >


    Message 21


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 07:54:07 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Landing gear type: Pros and Cons, Steel or wood?
    From: "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>
    FWIW. 280 hours since 9/09 including two trips from Austin, TX to Brodhead. Only issues were the result of my welding. I changed from bungees to springs as Mike Danforth mentioned, for good, solid reasons. -------- Kevin &quot;Axel&quot; Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367961#367961 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/wire_wheels_145.jpg


    Message 22


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 09:26:36 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Landing gear type: Pros and Cons, Steel or wood?
    From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake@gmail.com>
    Beautiful photo and bird Kevin.....!! Do not archive -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367963#367963


    Message 23


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 09:26:37 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Landing gear type: Pros and Cons, Steel or wood?
    From: "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com>
    Hey Guys! Many, Many thanks for these comments. It is EXACTLY what I was hoping to learn from ya'll. I am encouraged to know others have thought this one out ahead of time (Duh... It IS an 80 year old design after all :o) My main concern is my inexperience with metal. I am going to take the plans to my welding friend soon and ask him about it. The best metal gear I've seen is Charlie Millers' gear with the streamlined tubing for the legs. Very sturdy, but re-designing stuff like this isn't my cup of tea. So, I'm going to re-read all of this again, but want to thank ya'll again for the help. It is this kind of interaction that really makes this group special. And, thanks for the kind words about the Mrs. in the front seat! :o) She's only 5'2", so I need to raise the seat a bit when I put it in... Ha! She'll get all the bugs in the teeth for me ! Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367964#367964




    Other Matronics Email List Services

  • Post A New Message
  •   pietenpol-list@matronics.com
  • UN/SUBSCRIBE
  •   http://www.matronics.com/subscription
  • List FAQ
  •   http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
  • Web Forum Interface To Lists
  •   http://forums.matronics.com
  • Matronics List Wiki
  •   http://wiki.matronics.com
  • 7-Day List Browse
  •   http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list
  • Browse Pietenpol-List Digests
  •   http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list
  • Browse Other Lists
  •   http://www.matronics.com/browse
  • Live Online Chat!
  •   http://www.matronics.com/chat
  • Archive Downloading
  •   http://www.matronics.com/archives
  • Photo Share
  •   http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
  • Other Email Lists
  •   http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
  • Contributions
  •   http://www.matronics.com/contribution

    These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.

    -- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --