Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:15 AM - Re: Re: question for the radio geeks (Jack Phillips)
2. 05:44 AM - Andrews' a-65 (Douwe Blumberg)
3. 06:02 AM - Re: Engine Accessories, Manuals Needed (Dave Nielsen)
4. 06:23 AM - Re: Andrews' a-65 (Kip and Beth Gardner)
5. 06:33 AM - New source for spoked wheels (helspersew@aol.com)
6. 06:55 AM - simple VHF antenna solution (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP])
7. 07:04 AM - Re: Andrews' a-65 (Amsafetyc)
8. 07:07 AM - Re: simple VHF antenna solution (Amsafetyc)
9. 07:38 AM - Re: Andrews' a-65 (Gary Boothe)
10. 07:49 AM - Re: Carb Rebuild? (AircamperN11MS)
11. 07:54 AM - Re: question for the radio geeks (K5YAC)
12. 08:12 AM - Re: simple VHF antenna solution (K5YAC)
13. 08:23 AM - Re: Re: question for the radio geeks sarcastic rant (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
14. 08:57 AM - one man's method to get tv signals and the Tony Bingelis books (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP])
15. 09:21 AM - Re: question for the radio geeks sarcastic rant (K5YAC)
16. 09:24 AM - Re: one man's method to get tv signals and the Tony Bingelis boo (K5YAC)
17. 09:26 AM - Re: Re: question for the radio geeks sarcastic rant (brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com)
18. 09:30 AM - Plans for a simple antenna that should work. (tools)
19. 10:45 AM - Question for Mark Roberts about fuselage (John Fay)
20. 11:22 AM - Re: Plans for a simple antenna that should work. (K5YAC)
21. 11:55 AM - AAE antenna for $75 on ebay (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP])
22. 12:03 PM - one word can really change the meaning....or one left out! (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP])
23. 12:32 PM - Re: AAE antenna for $75 on ebay (K5YAC)
24. 01:13 PM - Stearman install of flexible AAE antenna (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP])
25. 01:28 PM - Re: Andrews' a-65 (Peter W Johnson)
26. 01:38 PM - Re: Andrews' a-65 (Dan Yocum)
27. 02:38 PM - Re: Stearman install of flexible AAE antenna (K5YAC)
28. 03:11 PM - Re: Plans for a simple antenna that should work. (tools)
29. 03:32 PM - Re: SNF (Dick N)
30. 04:05 PM - Re: SNF (Ben Charvet)
31. 06:59 PM - Re: Re: question for the radio geeks (Ray Krause)
32. 08:36 PM - Re: question for the radio geeks (K5YAC)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: question for the radio geeks |
Just to further muddy the waters on what for me is a murky subject to begin
with, I have a 1/2 wave dipole in the leading edge of my Pietenpol, which
seems to provide minimally acceptable performance. I can usually pick up an
AWOS about 8 - 10 miles out, which is plenty at Pietenpol speeds.
But it doesn't seem to transmit very well and sometimes I have trouble
hearing a tower's transmissions. I find that when I can barely hear a
transmission, if I bank the airplane it usually comes in clearer. As I
understand it, one reason that vertical antennas work well for aircraft is
that the FAA's antennas are vertical as well, meaning the signal they
propogate is vertically polarized. A dipole mounted horizontally like mine
is horizontally polarized, greatly reducing its efficiency for picking up
vertically polarized signals.
Fortunately, I rarely use the radio, reserving it for the rare occasion when
I go into a controlled field. Then it comes in handy, so I don't have to
try to remember those light gun signals.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of K5YAC
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: question for the radio geeks
I'm not trying to argue either... simply attempting to clear up a few of the
inaccuracies.
Again you say... more power in! Yes, it might mean more power out, but how
much is being reflected? My point is that is you have a tunable circuit
(most antennas are), why not fix it? Adding power is generally expensive
(more importantly, heavier and bulkier)... and in this application it is not
at all necessary to take that approach.
tools wrote:
> I agree, a ground plane does need to be tuned just like the driven
element, but in practice, for what we're doing, we probably don't need to
bring in an engineer to get it to work for us.
No, a ground plane does not NEED to be tuned... my statement was that it
would be ideal because it would be more efficient, but in a small airplane
it is difficult to accomplish as conditions aren't ideal. As for needing an
engineer... no, I don't suppose an engineer is required to get it to work
well enough for you, but when someone asks a question, I think it's only
fair to provide accurate answers in order to put them on the right path and
protect their equipment. Seems that if Douwe wanted to just wing-it he
wouldn't have asked.
Perhaps I get buried in the details, but we have honestly only scratched the
surface on this topic. We can keep it simple, and we generally have... the
answer to the original question was that the ground plane needed to be
oriented at the base of the driven element (at the feed point)... simple,
right? But, as the discussion went on it seemed that there might be some
interest in knowing WHY it should be there, and then other factors (and
inaccuracies) arose.
I think you are missing the point, which is that it is smarter, cheaper and
more effective to tune the circuit instead of just throwing the gear in and
saying yeah, the signal is crap, but it works good enough. To a radio guy
that is like saying, yeah, she's only running on 3 cylinders, but I'm still
getting 60% power.
Anyhow, I'll pipe down on the matter for now. If anyone wants the straight
skinny on efficient antenna design, shoot me a note.
One more thing... 10 elements on 160? Really? I'd like to see that.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369171#369171
Message 2
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First off, thanks all for the radio head help. I think we're narrowing down
on a solution. I sure like the idea of a fin location because it gets it
away from most of the hunks of metal (except for the brace wires) but not
sure how to do a ground plane back there. Second choice is behind my
cockpit but I have an aluminum baggage compartment there and am afraid
between that and the control cables (and the cables from my shoulder
harness) there will be too much interference. Still thinking.
Andrew, your symptoms remind me of a time I ran an engine and it did the
same thing. Turned out my fuel supply to the carb was bad and it would only
run the bowl down then quit. Then while I tinkered, the bowl would slowly
refill and it would run again. then quit.
Douwe
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Accessories, Manuals Needed |
Go to You tube. Search for antique magnetos. You will find lots of do it yo
urself instructions along with several places to buy antique magneto parts.
Dave
Do not archive
Dave Nielsen
sentuchows@aol.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Ralph <ralphhsd@itctel.com>
Sent: Thu, Mar 22, 2012 8:27 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engine Accessories, Manuals Needed
A couple years ago I found Eisemann mag parts from the California company w
ith the full page ad in Trade-a-plane. All parts seemed to be available.
Try an antique tractor magazine for a magneto repair man and you can probab
ly find points, condenser, etc. for the Case magnetos. Case mags have a re
ally hot spark for tractor use and I=99ve been told the airplane mags
are the same thing.
Ralph in SD
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Andrews' a-65 |
How thin can a ground plane be? Does mass make a difference, or just
size, dimensions and orientation? Maybe you could work it into the
horizontal stab somehow?
I'm supremely ignorant on this subject, so I'm free to throw out goofy
ideas :)
Kip Gardner
On Mar 23, 2012, at 8:54 AM, Douwe Blumberg wrote:
> First off, thanks all for the radio head help. I think we=92re
> narrowing down on a solution. I sure like the idea of a fin
> location because it gets it away from most of the hunks of metal
> (except for the brace wires) but not sure how to do a ground plane
> back there. Second choice is behind my cockpit but I have an
> aluminum baggage compartment there and am afraid between that and
> the control cables (and the cables from my shoulder harness) there
> will be too much interference. Still thinking=85
>
> Andrew, your symptoms remind me of a time I ran an engine and it did
> the same thing. Turned out my fuel supply to the carb was bad and
> it would only run the bowl down then quit. Then while I tinkered,
> the bowl would slowly refill and it would run again=85 then quit.
>
> Douwe
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | New source for spoked wheels |
I was reading a magazine last night and ran across this ad.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
Message 6
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| Subject: | simple VHF antenna solution |
[cid:image004.jpg@01CD08DA.E53C00E0] I know nothing about aircraft ante
nnas besides that this one works really well and it
fits nicely inside my fuselage arched and secured in an upside down U-shape
behind my rear seat area with nylon
tye wraps. I bought a coax cable with two female connectors-one connects
to the antenna, the other to my
Icom handheld radio.
Mike C.
http://www.advancedaircraft.com/
[cid:image003.png@01CD08DA.E430F980]
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Andrews' a-65 |
I have thrown out the suggestion at least 3 times and although there are sev
eral opinions being voiced I don't see anyone willing to present a seminar a
nd build workshop session at Brodhead that would help all us non radio heads
on the best way to get the best reception on our hand helds. With so many b
uilds under way an uncovered
Airframe appears to be the best time to plan and install the suggested equip
ment for best radio performance. I am certain there must be a best method wi
th best performance information available and as many experts willing to edu
cate us all rather than throwing around opinions and arguments. Having read t
hem all I am now more confused than ever, not being a radio head I am thinki
ng tin cans and string will do the job simpler and easier than all the
Radio head opinions being tossed around.
Juss sayin
Do not archive rant request for clarity and enlightenment from those that ca
n!
John
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 23, 2012, at 9:23 AM, Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth@earthlink.net>
wrote:
> How thin can a ground plane be? Does mass make a difference, or just size
, dimensions and orientation? Maybe you could work it into the horizontal s
tab somehow?
>
> I'm supremely ignorant on this subject, so I'm free to throw out goofy ide
as :)
>
> Kip Gardner
>
> On Mar 23, 2012, at 8:54 AM, Douwe Blumberg wrote:
>
>> First off, thanks all for the radio head help. I think we=99re nar
rowing down on a solution. I sure like the idea of a fin location because i
t gets it away from most of the hunks of metal (except for the brace wires) b
ut not sure how to do a ground plane back there. Second choice is behind my
cockpit but I have an aluminum baggage compartment there and am afraid betw
een that and the control cables (and the cables from my shoulder harness) th
ere will be too much interference. Still thinking
>>
>> Andrew, your symptoms remind me of a time I ran an engine and it did the s
ame thing. Turned out my fuel supply to the carb was bad and it would only r
un the bowl down then quit. Then while I tinkered, the bowl would slowly re
fill and it would run again then quit.
>>
>> Douwe
>>
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" style="color
: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pie
tenpol-List
>> blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com
>> style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.
com/contribution
>>
>>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: simple VHF antenna solution |
If mike says it works great that's all I need, especially since no one has s
tepped up to teach us all about it
John
Do not archive
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 23, 2012, at 9:54 AM, "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP
]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote:
> <image004.jpg> I know nothing about aircraft antennas besides that thi
s one works really well and it
> fits nicely inside my fuselage arched and secured in an upside down U-shap
e behind my rear seat area with nylon
> tye wraps. I bought a coax cable with two female connectors=94one
connects to the antenna, the other to my
> Icom handheld radio.
>
> Mike C.
>
> http://www.advancedaircraft.com/
>
> <image003.png>
Message 9
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I=99m with you, John, and stopped paying attention about 3 days
ago. However, I did find this stuff:
http://www.ssww.com/product/?sku=BE404X
<http://www.ssww.com/product/?sku=BE404X&cm_mmc=Paid+Search-_-Google-
_-AdwordsProducts-_-BE404X&aid=GOG&cid=2499>
&cm_mmc=Paid+Search-_-Google-_-AdwordsProducts-_-BE404X&aid=GOG&cid=
2499
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
Do not archive
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Amsafetyc
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 7:04 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Andrews' a-65
I have thrown out the suggestion at least 3 times and although there are
several opinions being voiced I don't see anyone willing to present a
seminar and build workshop session at Brodhead that would help all us
non radio heads on the best way to get the best reception on our hand
helds. With so many builds under way an uncovered
Airframe appears to be the best time to plan and install the suggested
equipment for best radio performance. I am certain there must be a best
method with best performance information available and as many experts
willing to educate us all rather than throwing around opinions and
arguments. Having read them all I am now more confused than ever, not
being a radio head I am thinking tin cans and string will do the job
simpler and easier than all the
Radio head opinions being tossed around.
Juss sayin
Do not archive rant request for clarity and enlightenment from those
that can!
John
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 23, 2012, at 9:23 AM, Kip and Beth Gardner
<kipandbeth@earthlink.net> wrote:
How thin can a ground plane be? Does mass make a difference, or just
size, dimensions and orientation? Maybe you could work it into the
horizontal stab somehow?
I'm supremely ignorant on this subject, so I'm free to throw out goofy
ideas :)
Kip Gardner
On Mar 23, 2012, at 8:54 AM, Douwe Blumberg wrote:
First off, thanks all for the radio head help. I think we=99re
narrowing down on a solution. I sure like the idea of a fin location
because it gets it away from most of the hunks of metal (except for the
brace wires) but not sure how to do a ground plane back there. Second
choice is behind my cockpit but I have an aluminum baggage compartment
there and am afraid between that and the control cables (and the cables
from my shoulder harness) there will be too much interference. Still
thinking
Andrew, your symptoms remind me of a time I ran an engine and it did the
same thing. Turned out my fuel supply to the carb was bad and it would
only run the bowl down then quit. Then while I tinkered, the bowl would
slowly refill and it would run again then quit.
Douwe
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=========
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
=========
cs.com
=========
matronics.com/contribution
=========
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Carb Rebuild? |
Andrew,
Your float is probably stuck from sitting around. It could also be a stuck float
needle. You could tap on the carb with the wood end of a hammer and see if
that frees up the stuck float. It sounds like it is running on the prime. If
you have a primer on it, you could leave it on the unlocked position and it
would also probably run a little longer. I would try taping on the carb first.
Good luck,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369222#369222
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: question for the radio geeks |
You are exactly right Jack... polarization does have some effect on radio signals.
It shouldn't be tremendous, and I wouldn't think that it would limit the
range by 80%, but it's possible that a combination of things could be having an
effect. Also true is the fact that you don't need a great deal of range when
you are a slow mover, although as one that likes to tinker I'd probably have
another look at it if it were me. Perhaps flying a knife-edge maneuver when
using the radio would help. [Laughing]
I don't mean to be critical of anyone's system, this is just one of those areas
that I enjoy, and I will definitely attempt to construct a homebrew antenna system
that gives me the most out of my handheld radio. Nope, I won't be using
gold plated connections, Teflon dielectric or anything real fancy... just good
engineering practices. Wish I had the same skill when it comes to engines,
metal work, etc. Ha!
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369224#369224
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: simple VHF antenna solution |
Can't argue with what works! I look at the price and say WOW WEE! I need to make
a few of these to sell! I'll bet I can make an effective antenna for around
$15, but that's not to suggest that buying one is a bad idea. Again, whatever
works. Believe me, I'm farming out my share of work... at the moment I'm
awaiting delivery of Ken's hubs... just one of those things that I didn't feel
like messing with.
@John... Teaching this stuff isn't too simple. For starters it requires a basic
understanding of general electronics, and then to really get into the design
side, things like Smith charts, reactance, resistance, impedance, etc. have to
be understood. Honestly I am a little rusty on some of the more advanced theory,
but I can recall enough to fabricate simple resonators and such. I'll be
glad to bring my antenna analyzer to Brodhead for anyone that wants to evaluate
their antenna. It would literally take just a few minutes to plug it in and
give it a sweep across the band.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369225#369225
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: question for the radio geeks sarcastic rant |
Thank you all, I sure am glad we got that all cleared up (yes sarcastic
remarks and rant to follow) !
It appears this has been a gigantic waste of time, as many of the prolonged
discussions and debates typically are. There appears to be no resolution,
nor consensuses as to a best method for those of us unable to flex our
radio head muscles.
Now that we without those skills are duly and truly impressed with
conflicting jargon, I suppose we should move on to the next insoluble discussion.
I suppose the simple but only true answer to the question is, make the
call, order what you think will work and follow the directions for
installation and get what you get as far as radio communications. Since it all
comes
down to the basic fact "You buys your ticket and takes your ride".
Thank you all, I yield back the balance of my time
John
Do not archive my sarcastic rant
Message 14
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| Subject: | one man's method to get tv signals and the Tony Bingelis |
books
A certain Pietenpol builder was having trouble (me) getting a good tv signa
l
on my analog-to-digital tv converter box a few years ago when they went to
DTV
and the fancy antennas weren't getting good reception so out of futility I
just
coiled up a length of safety wire around my hand, removed it and stuck one
free
end into the 'antenna in' jack and boy did I ever get the channels!
I agree with Mark that the AAE strap/composite 'ready-to-plug-in-and-fly' a
ntenna
is a bit pricy for us Pietenpol builders and that a good performing home ma
de
antenna could be made much cheaper but knowing nothing about this field I c
hose to
just buy one and be done with it.
On another note I do believe that Tony Bingelis talks about radio antenna i
nstallation
in one of his books and for me I need simple, easy, sketches and wording li
ke Tony gives
to get the point and learn.
Hat's off to all of you who are so knowledgeable in the antenna area and by
the way Mark,
OUTSTANDING article on how you made your wood composite struts in the last
EAA issue of
Sport Aviation. (with accolades to our own Jim "That's my Dad" Markle.)
Mike C.
[cid:image001.png@01CD08EC.139246F0]
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: question for the radio geeks sarcastic rant |
I'll take your yielded time... ha! You know me!
A waste of time? NFL Sunday tone - Come on man... the original question was in
reference to the ground plane... more specifically, where it needed to be placed.
That issue was explained and a few examples were even given (Fly Baby site,
other illustrations and text). As we pressed on, there were other issues
that came up that required a response, or debate, or simply further conversation.
Call it what you want, but a waste of time? I think some of the text offered
several key (albeit basic) pieces of information, such as proper feed lines,
tuning... i.e. 234/frequency(MHz), simple and effective ground plane placement,
even some simple terminology. All of these things are key in explaining
this science to someone who wants to gain a better understanding. Could I start
from the beginning and teach this subject? Absolutely... but I'm not about
to because it goes well beyond the scope of the original question and I would
eventually get the ol, "what does this have to do with building a Pietenpol"
question. Uh huh, you thought I forgot that, didn't ya? Ha ha! Besides, there
are textbooks that do a much better job of explaining the theory with pictures
and everything... heck, even YOU could understand it. I've got a library
full of this stuff... let me know if you are interested.
If you are confused about something, perhaps you could ask more specifically...
what is it that you would like to know about building an antenna? That might
generate a more focused response. But in reality, the things that were offered
really are the building blocks of an efficient antenna system... just because
the terms seem like "conflicting jargon", it does not mean that is actually
the case.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369233#369233
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: one man's method to get tv signals and the Tony Bingelis |
boo
"That's my Dad"... Haaa ha! Hey, he is a great guy though, right? Thanks for
the compliment.
The ball of wire/foil/coat hangars... never hurts to try. [Laughing]
Who is that hanging the yagi?
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369234#369234
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| Subject: | Re: question for the radio geeks sarcastic rant |
I would have to say "Not a waste of Time".......I am not an antenna or
radio person so I did learned a few tidbits from the discussions.
Brian
SLC-UT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of K5YAC
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 10:21 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: question for the radio geeks sarcastic rant
I'll take your yielded time... ha! You know me!
A waste of time? NFL Sunday tone - Come on man... the original question
was in reference to the ground plane... more specifically, where it
needed to be placed. That issue was explained and a few examples were
even given (Fly Baby site, other illustrations and text). As we pressed
on, there were other issues that came up that required a response, or
debate, or simply further conversation. Call it what you want, but a
waste of time? I think some of the text offered several key (albeit
basic) pieces of information, such as proper feed lines, tuning... i.e.
234/frequency(MHz), simple and effective ground plane placement, even
some simple terminology. All of these things are key in explaining this
science to someone who wants to gain a better understanding. Could I
start from the beginning and teach this subject? Absolutely... but I'm
not about to because it goes well beyond the scope of the original
question and I would eventually get the ol, "what does this have to do !
with building a Pietenpol" question. Uh huh, you thought I forgot
that, didn't ya? Ha ha! Besides, there are textbooks that do a much
better job of explaining the theory with pictures and everything...
heck, even YOU could understand it. I've got a library full of this
stuff... let me know if you are interested.
If you are confused about something, perhaps you could ask more
specifically... what is it that you would like to know about building an
antenna? That might generate a more focused response. But in reality,
the things that were offered really are the building blocks of an
efficient antenna system... just because the terms seem like
"conflicting jargon", it does not mean that is actually the case.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369233#369233
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| Subject: | Plans for a simple antenna that should work. |
Well, the discussion wasn't intended to get whacky. From the start, this is what
I had in mind. It's the "j pole" antenna I built over 20 years ago for a very
similar frequency and it worked really well, in some very non favorable conditions
(laying on the dash of a big metal van). I was using a handheld radio
very similar to the aircraft handhelds (it was even an ICOM).
I didn't know a thing about antennas when I built it, just followed the directions.
I don't know if it'll work in a airplane, but I can't see why it won't. The dimensions
are for about 144 mhz (which has a wavelength of 6.8 feet) and we want
to make it for about 122 mhz (which has a wavelength of 8.0 feet).
The entire length of the antenna should be 3/4 of a wavelength, but it's not.
I think that's because of the particular 300 ohm brown flat lead TV antenna stuff
used or something. So....
I'm going to make one using the theoretical measurements and one just scaled up
by the percentage difference between 6.8 to 8 feet and see which one works best.
It's basically a free antenna, so there's no harm in this. Takes about an
hour to make at the most.
Here's the article:
http://www.harfordemcomm.org/files/twinlead.pdf
Replace the numbers in figure 1. with these for the theoretically correct antenna:
72" overall length
1 1/2" from the end, 22 1/2" from there to the notch 1/4" notch 47 3/4"
remaining.
I haven't figured out the other dimensions because I'm not home and don't have
a calculator and too lazy to use one online. I won't be able to get to this for
a week or two at best, AND I lost my radio charger so I don't even have a radio
to check it out on right now!
However, 6.8 to 8 is what, about 12 to 15 percent increase? Whatever it is, just
increase the measurements in the article by that. Antennas are just plain
linear I think. There's not a huge difference anyway and this antenna isn't super
picky.
If someone has a little time and wants to play around and see if it works before
I get to it, that would be great. If this does work as well as a vertical,
there's no reason we can't make a zillion of them during Brodhead.
Honestly, I never even "tuned" it for my ham radio. I just made it exactly like
this article and used it. Always had good reports and it worked better than
my magnetic mount 1/2 wave whip, which is essentially the same thing as most
of us are using now.
Cheers,
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369236#369236
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| Subject: | Question for Mark Roberts about fuselage |
Mark,
I'm behind on my email and just read your March 7th post, with the picture
of your fuselage (with your wife sitting in the front cockpit). I notice
you have added a door on the right side. Did you engineer that yourself,
or did you by the plans from Kerry Price? (name-spelling?)
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| Subject: | Re: Plans for a simple antenna that should work. |
I can't give a definitive yea or nay on the "dashboard" J-pole design... build
it, test it, tune it, test it again... who knows. The theory behind the J-pole
is sound as you can adjust the J-leg to achieve proper tuning and the larger
element (usually 1/2 wave) should provide better gain over the normal 1/4 wave
verticals, but I don't think it's the best suited design for an airplane. They
are also sensitive to surrounding metal objects, so that needs to be considered...
and you will likely need a balun to provide the proper impedance... but
hey, tinker away! If it doesn't work as well as you would like, just add more
power! [Laughing]
Let us know how it works out.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369245#369245
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| Subject: | AAE antenna for $75 on ebay |
I've been doing a little searching on the antenna I've been using for the p
ast 14 years in my Piet and it
has some reviews/posts on both the J-3 Cub and Stearman owner's enthusiasts
web sites.
http://compare.ebay.com/like/180843784502?var=lv<yp=AllFixedPriceItem
Types&var=sbar
Chief Aircraft actually sells the antennas for less money than the manufact
urer does here for $129 new rather than $149 from AAE.
http://www.chiefaircraft.com/aircraft/antennas/advanced-aircraft-electronic
s.html
Mike C.
Here a good deal on one: [cid:image001.png@01CD0904.E61AD610]
Message 22
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| Subject: | one word can really change the meaning....or one left |
out!
I've been doing a little searching on the antenna I've been using for the p
ast 14 years in my Piet and it
has some good reviews/posts on both the J-3 Cub and Stearman owner's enthus
iasts web sites.
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| Subject: | Re: AAE antenna for $75 on ebay |
That actually looks really neat Mike... I'm thinking it must be a folded dipole
of some sort, which would explain the balun (inside the little box) in the center.
You may have described this, but tell us, how do you have this mounted? Is it
strung from front to rear in your turtledeck, or wrapped somehow? Dipoles don't
typically offer the best omnidirectional characteristics, but hey, if it is
matched well and functions well, no need to complicate matters. It does look
to be simple to use and install.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369251#369251
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| Subject: | Stearman install of flexible AAE antenna |
http://www.stearman.net/?p=1035
Looks like this could very easily be done on a Piet too against one
of the diagonals in the fuselage. You wouldn't even need the plywood
backing they use to stiffen the antenna.
The antenna itself is flexible so they coil it up into a circle to ship it but
it expands flat.
Mine is strung in the shape of an umbrella or upside down U behind my pilot seat
inside the fuselage and below the baggage/hatbox area.
Mike C.
Here's a link to some photos of other Pietenpol-like fuselage installations:
http://www.vintageaircraft.org/featured/2003%20-%20Vol.%2031,%20No.%2004%20-%20Radio%20and%20Antenna%20Installation.pdf
Message 25
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Hi Guys,
I used an antenna with a built in ground plane and mounted it behind my
seat. See http://www.cpc-world.com/new_card_images/images/IMG_0213_JPG.jpg
The antenna is upside down but radio waves don't worry about than.
Worked well.
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Sent: Friday, 23 March 2012 11:54 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Andrews' a-65
First off, thanks all for the radio head help. I think we're narrowing down
on a solution. I sure like the idea of a fin location because it gets it
away from most of the hunks of metal (except for the brace wires) but not
sure how to do a ground plane back there. Second choice is behind my
cockpit but I have an aluminum baggage compartment there and am afraid
between that and the control cables (and the cables from my shoulder
harness) there will be too much interference. Still thinking.
Andrew, your symptoms remind me of a time I ran an engine and it did the
same thing. Turned out my fuel supply to the carb was bad and it would only
run the bowl down then quit. Then while I tinkered, the bowl would slowly
refill and it would run again. then quit.
Douwe
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Andrews' a-65 |
On 03/23/2012 03:28 PM, Peter W Johnson wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>
> I used an antenna with a built in ground plane and mounted it behind my
> seat. See http://www.cpc-world.com/new_card_images/images/IMG_0213_JPG.jpg
>
> The antenna is upside down but radio waves don't worry about than.
That's ok though because you're upside down in Australia anyway.
I'm sorry. I couldn't resist.
;-)
do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: Stearman install of flexible AAE antenna |
Interesting. I've made folded dipoles out of old twin lead feedline, like what
was used on old TV antennas. Are these elements some sort of metal, or are they
wire, or? I can't really tell from the photo... perhaps they are just flat
metallic strips? Generally speaking, bending the antenna elements (in the case
of a dipole) is poor practice because it has a negative effect on the radiation
pattern and could also effect the impedance. I know, I know... too much
information, but it's true. Not that it's a BAD thing, but again, to a radio
guy, it certainly isn't a good thing.
Hey, if it works, that's what counts. As far as the overall construction of these
old low and slow airplanes, the radio system is certainly way down the list
of items to fret over. Again, it's just something that some of us look at differently
and would enjoy tinkering with.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369264#369264
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| Subject: | Re: Plans for a simple antenna that should work. |
Here's another one worth trying. It's designed for our radios and our frequencies
already. It's another one we could make a batch of at Brodhead.
http://chrusion.com/BJ7/InvVeeAntenna4ULs.pdf
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369265#369265
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Hi Ben
Skip and I saved a spot by us for you, give me a call when you get in, I
should be able to get a cart to pick you up.
Dick N.
612-805-1742
----- Original Message -----
From: Ben Charvet
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 9:54 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: SNF
I'm watching the weather and gathering my camping gear. I'm hoping to
try aircamping. Hope to find a campsite near yours.
Ben Charvet
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 22, 2012, at 8:25 PM, "Dick N" <horzpool@goldengate.net> wrote:
Hey all
I am down here at Sun n Fun and have been here for a few days now.
I hope to see lots of Piet people at the show. For anyone who is
considering building a Piet, we will be building 2 fuselages at this
show and also building wing ribs.
For anyone who wants to help build stuff this is the place for it,
we can also talk with people about questions. I know of one Piet at
this point that is flying in, hopefully there will be more.
Stop by
Dick N.
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
Message 30
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Thanks, will do.
Ben
On 3/23/2012 6:31 PM, Dick N wrote:
> Hi Ben
> Skip and I saved a spot by us for you, give me a call when you get in,
> I should be able to get a cart to pick you up.
> Dick N.
> 612-805-1742
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Ben Charvet <mailto:bencharvet@gmail.com>
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 22, 2012 9:54 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: SNF
>
> I'm watching the weather and gathering my camping gear. I'm hoping
> to try aircamping. Hope to find a campsite near yours.
> Ben Charvet
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 22, 2012, at 8:25 PM, "Dick N" <horzpool@goldengate.net
> <mailto:horzpool@goldengate.net>> wrote:
>
>> Hey all
>> I am down here at Sun n Fun and have been here for a few days
>> now. I hope to see lots of Piet people at the show. For anyone
>> who is considering building a Piet, we will be building 2
>> fuselages at this show and also building wing ribs.
>> For anyone who wants to help build stuff this is the place for
>> it, we can also talk with people about questions. I know of
>> one Piet at this point that is flying in, hopefully there will be
>> more.
>> Stop by
>> Dick N.
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
> *
>
> 3D============================================
> href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"'>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> 3D============================================
> href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com
> 3D============================================
> href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> 3D============================================
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: question for the radio geeks |
Mark,
Other than Mike's recommendation; when you design one, would you please
sketch it out and show us how best to mount it in our Piets? The "broom
stick" antenna sounds about my speed (seeing as how my Sky Scout has lots of
broom sticks in the fuselage!). Maybe you smart guys can help the rest of us
out with a simple sketch that would work with most hand held radios. How
and where to place it, etc.?
One grateful guy,
Ray Krause
Sky Scout in progress
----- Original Message -----
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10@cox.net>
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 7:54 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: question for the radio geeks
>
> You are exactly right Jack... polarization does have some effect on radio
> signals. It shouldn't be tremendous, and I wouldn't think that it would
> limit the range by 80%, but it's possible that a combination of things
> could be having an effect. Also true is the fact that you don't need a
> great deal of range when you are a slow mover, although as one that likes
> to tinker I'd probably have another look at it if it were me. Perhaps
> flying a knife-edge maneuver when using the radio would help. [Laughing]
>
> I don't mean to be critical of anyone's system, this is just one of those
> areas that I enjoy, and I will definitely attempt to construct a homebrew
> antenna system that gives me the most out of my handheld radio. Nope, I
> won't be using gold plated connections, Teflon dielectric or anything real
> fancy... just good engineering practices. Wish I had the same skill when
> it comes to engines, metal work, etc. Ha!
>
> --------
> Mark Chouinard
> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369224#369224
>
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: question for the radio geeks |
Sure... I'll share my install when I get to that part. I can't guarantee that
it will be anything amazing... in fact, it will likely be a copy of something
that others have had success with... but it will be tuned and efficient. Will
it do a better job than others antennas? Since we aren't contesting with these
things that will be debatable, but I will strive for a simple, no-frills setup
and share what I find.
Don't everyone get all riled up if I come back with bandwidth plots and SWR readings!
[Laughing]
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369272#369272
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