Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:48 AM - Re: Re: question for the radio geeks (Ray Krause)
2. 10:01 AM - Re: Re: question for the radio geeks (Gary Boothe)
3. 10:29 AM - Antennas-- more (Timothy Willis)
4. 10:36 AM - Re: Re: question for the radio geeks (Ray Krause)
5. 10:43 AM - fuel tank grounding (Timothy Willis)
6. 12:54 PM - Re: Re: Carb Rebuild? (Andrew Eldredge)
7. 05:57 PM - Antenna (Douwe Blumberg)
8. 07:13 PM - Re: question for the radio geeks (K5YAC)
9. 08:36 PM - Wheels (Walter Allen)
10. 09:17 PM - Re: Antennas-- more (K5YAC)
11. 10:04 PM - Questions answered, doubts dispelled (Jim Ash)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: question for the radio geeks |
Thanks, Mark! I will be checking every day!!!
But really, there is no hurry on my part. I just find it interesting and
relieved that we have such expertise in the group. Wish I had something to
offer in return!
Ray Krause
----- Original Message -----
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10@cox.net>
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 8:35 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: question for the radio geeks
>
> Sure... I'll share my install when I get to that part. I can't guarantee
> that it will be anything amazing... in fact, it will likely be a copy of
> something that others have had success with... but it will be tuned and
> efficient. Will it do a better job than others antennas? Since we aren't
> contesting with these things that will be debatable, but I will strive for
> a simple, no-frills setup and share what I find.
>
> Don't everyone get all riled up if I come back with bandwidth plots and
> SWR readings! [Laughing]
>
> --------
> Mark Chouinard
> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369272#369272
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: question for the radio geeks |
Ray - If your Sky Scout is half as nice as your Waiex, that will be eye
candy enough!!
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Krause
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 9:48 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: question for the radio geeks
--> <raykrause@frontiernet.net>
Thanks, Mark! I will be checking every day!!!
But really, there is no hurry on my part. I just find it interesting and
relieved that we have such expertise in the group. Wish I had something to
offer in return!
Ray Krause
----- Original Message -----
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10@cox.net>
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 8:35 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: question for the radio geeks
>
> Sure... I'll share my install when I get to that part. I can't guarantee
> that it will be anything amazing... in fact, it will likely be a copy of
> something that others have had success with... but it will be tuned and
> efficient. Will it do a better job than others antennas? Since we aren't
> contesting with these things that will be debatable, but I will strive for
> a simple, no-frills setup and share what I find.
>
> Don't everyone get all riled up if I come back with bandwidth plots and
> SWR readings! [Laughing]
>
> --------
> Mark Chouinard
> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369272#369272
>
>
>
Message 3
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I find thisdiscussion of antennas both timely and excellent. I am
NOT a radio guy, but have talked with a friend who is (see below). I
recall Bingelis's diagrams. I recently met Mark, but we did not talk
radios. I believe he is an RF authority, though.
I have always intended to have a handheld radio with an external
antenna, and a week ago I was given a Sigtronics intercom. Pretty
deaf, I need one for any passenger talk at all.
So here goes my take on antennas, which, with my limits, has to be
from a practical perspective (no theory):
I have been debating 3 different INTERNAL antenna locations that add no drag:
-- in the Vstab;
-- behind the seat, upside down, with ground plane, like Mike Cuy;
-- a metal strip in the right wing, much like Jack Phillips;
as well as2 other possible EXTERNAL installations:
-- on top of the aluminum baggage lid in the center wing (use the lid
as ground plane);
-- under the fuze or on top of a wing, with Al. ground plane.
If you are calling ahead to an airport, the first two internal mounts
have the pilot and the metal engine between the antenna and the
airfield. The wing mount does not have this, and allows a larger
fractional wavelength or a full dipole. Of course, just as Jack can
bank, any pilot of other solutions can turn left or right to improve
the signal. If you mount your comm radio antenna inside, what do you
use for an antenna and ground plane for your ELT?
I'll deal withexternal antenna mounts in a moment; first the wing mount.
I really like the idea of a dipole in the wing. However I wondered
about antenna polarity as a problem in the wing, as Jack has explained
it. I think Jack is right, based on his report, that polarity may be
the problem. Improving reception in a bank seems to verify it.
Here is a bit of proof of polarity issues from an entirely different
example. When I was withSBC Comms, now called AT&T, we were looking
into so called "wireless cable TV." The FCC had granted the
equivalent of about 30 analog TV channels in a broadcast radio
spectrum, I forget the frequency range. The service compted with
landline cable TV and with satellite TV, like DirecTV. Technically
reception was pretty much line of sight, so it must have been high
frequency. In any case tall buildings and hills masked the signal in
a city that had this service. We looked into this.
The industry's solution was installation of so called "beam benders,"
which were mounted on hilltops or buildings to reach the masked
"valleys." Each unit consisted of a vertical receive antenna, a
transceiver, and a horizontal transmit receiver. The homes in the
valley had horizontal receive antennas, unlike all the others that
received well the usual signal. The horizontal receive antennas not
only got good [horizontal] signals, they did not recognize reflections
off the standard distant vertical transmit antennas.
This is all empirical data. My friend (now retired, my current "radio
guy") and I saw this all work. Use of the broomstick J-antenna would
be a current empirical test. Does it work horizontally, and how well;
does it work better vertically?
Now for the external antennas.:
-- I like the idea of under the fuze, esp. as the signal sweeps
"down," except for weeds or gravel knocking them about.
-- I like the idea of using the Al. baggage lid (hey, already in
place), except for the mobility of the lid stressing the connections,
or shifting or crammed baggage mucking up the connections.
-- I like the idea of mounting the antenna on a wing with the Al.
groundplane under the fabric, except it is more complex to form and
cover. Will this work OK? I think it should, but don't know.
If I put the external antenna up high, I'd mount my ELT radio, antenna
and ground plane behind the pilot seat. BTW I hope I never need a
transponder... I have no engine-driven electrics with an A-65, and am
outside AUS Bergstrom's "cake".
Are the views above appropriate? Since pretty deaf, I'll need good
transmission.
I welcome discussion.
Tim in central TX
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: question for the radio geeks |
Thanks, Gary! I am anxious to see your plane. All the photos show that you
are the master craftsman to "copy".
Ray
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 10:01 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: question for the radio geeks
>
> Ray - If your Sky Scout is half as nice as your Waiex, that will be eye
> candy enough!!
>
> Gary Boothe
> NX308MB
> Do not archive
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Krause
> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 9:48 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: question for the radio geeks
>
> --> <raykrause@frontiernet.net>
>
> Thanks, Mark! I will be checking every day!!!
>
> But really, there is no hurry on my part. I just find it interesting and
> relieved that we have such expertise in the group. Wish I had something
> to
> offer in return!
>
> Ray Krause
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "K5YAC" <hangar10@cox.net>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 8:35 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: question for the radio geeks
>
>
>>
>> Sure... I'll share my install when I get to that part. I can't guarantee
>> that it will be anything amazing... in fact, it will likely be a copy of
>> something that others have had success with... but it will be tuned and
>> efficient. Will it do a better job than others antennas? Since we
>> aren't
>
>> contesting with these things that will be debatable, but I will strive
>> for
>
>> a simple, no-frills setup and share what I find.
>>
>> Don't everyone get all riled up if I come back with bandwidth plots and
>> SWR readings! [Laughing]
>>
>> --------
>> Mark Chouinard
>> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369272#369272
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | fuel tank grounding |
I have an 18 gal. Aluminum welded fuselage fuel tank. It has no tabs
on it with which to attach grounding cables. My concern is grounding
the tank to common "earth" ground for the plane, so as to discharge
static charges from sloshing fuel. This is important at any time, but
esp., as we know, before refueling.
For my solution I am considering grinding off a bit of the heavier
welds at a fold/weld to creat a smooth flat spot. Then at that point
I can attach a homemade aluminum clamp held with bolts. That clamp
will have the tank on one end and a bolt hole on the other. The bolt
hole allows connection of an aluminum cable over to the S.S. firewall,
with some slack for "drip loop," and for removing the firewall,
gascolator, etc. for maintenance.
On the other side of the firewall I will ground the firewall to the
motor mount, again with a drip loop and slack in the cable. Engine
ground is the the MM. I'll run a short cable off the MM to the bottom
of the cowl for grounding while fueling.
Does this sound like an appropriate approach?
Don't laugh; I have asked a couple of well respected builders how they
grounded their fuel tanks and got some funny answers. I am looking
for both assured mechanical connections, as well as avoidance of
intermetal dielectrics. And of course the solution needs to be
practical in eventual usage.
Thanks,
Tim in central TX
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Carb Rebuild? |
Smashing! I did what you said and tapped around the float chamber. On the
next start it kept going until I shut it down. Mags checked out Oil
pressure looked good. Thanks!
Andrew
On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 8:48 AM, AircamperN11MS <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org>wrote:
> Scott.liefeld@lacity.org>
>
> Andrew,
>
> Your float is probably stuck from sitting around. It could also be a
> stuck float needle. You could tap on the carb with the wood end of a
> hammer and see if that frees up the stuck float. It sounds like it is
> running on the prime. If you have a primer on it, you could leave it on
> the unlocked position and it would also probably run a little longer. I
> would try taping on the carb first.
>
> Good luck,
>
> --------
> Scott Liefeld
> Flying N11MS since March 1972
> Steel Tube
> C-85-12
> Wire Wheels
> Brodhead in 1996
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369222#369222
>
>
--
Andrew Eldredge
Provo, UT
Message 7
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I for one think this was a good thread as it obviously struck a chord with
people. Sounds like I wasn't the only one thinking along those lines.
I'm gonna go with the one Mike uses, 'cause if Mikey likes it!!!! It's gotta
be good!!!!
Seriously though, looks like an easy install, which is what I want at this
point as I'm racing towards the finish line.
Thanks all!
Douwe
Did a cool thing today. Have read for years about various means to get some
elevator trim to relieve stick pressures and now since I have a little
electric system I installed a little trim servo motor in one elevator. It's
about the size of half a pack of cigarettes and only needs two tiny wires
running up to a switch under my dash. Weighs a couple of ounces and pretty
much fits inside the elevator, maybe protrudes 1/8" on the bottom, which
I'll cover with a little aluminum fairing. It'll actuate a trim tab on the
elevator and "Bobs your uncle!!" no muss, no fuss.
Sheet metal all fitted, now just have to remove it all and smooth out.
Started to finish the fiberglass work on the cowling. That's gonna take
some time!!
Douwe
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: question for the radio geeks |
Ray... I won't be looking at this part of my project for some time, but still come
look every day. [Laughing]
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369312#369312
Message 9
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I have two Harley 40 spoke front wheels 21 inch x 2.15. I was told both run
true when I bought them, they are used and need polished up. I think they
are off of a dyna-glide. I paid a $110.00 for the pair plus shipping, I wou
ld take a $100.00 for the pair and you pay shipping from Kentucky to your a
ddress. If anyone is interested please email me off the list at overalles45
@yahoo.com.=0A-=0A-=0AThanks
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Antennas-- more |
Tim...
I've pretty much exhausted my efforts at trying to explain the pros and cons of
some of these designs. I don't mean for that to sound short, just that it takes
a lot of effort to attempt to explain this science in a clear manner via text...
in person we could cover some ground pretty quick, but for me to keep pounding
the keys... well, I'd rather direct you to a couple of textbooks and manuals,
all of which would also prepare people for FCC testing... i.e. ham radio
stuff. Maybe someone else might chime in.
Honestly, if a guy can afford to spend the bucks, the antenna that Mike Cuy showed
us is sounds like a reasonable good option. Aside from the price, it is 1.
adaptable to a variety of installations, and 2. apparently a decent performer.
When I say, "aside from the price", keep in mind that is coming from someone
that doesn't see a problem in fabricating a decent antenna out of stuff I already
have laying around. If I didn't have much of a clue of these things, I'd
likely just shell out the extra scratch and be done with it. There are a few
items on my project that I will be doing exactly that.
Just for grins, here is an antenna I built about 10 years ago when I was in flight
training. At the time, I lived about 20 miles north of Tulsa International
Airport and wanted to listen to the radio chatter from the house. At that distance,
the rubber ducky offered intermittent reception at best, and that was
if I were outside. So, I constructed this simple vertical dipole from PVC and
speaker wire. For those unfamiliar, I simply split the center conductor and
shield of my RG-58 coax and connected (soldered) the speaker wire directly to
these leads (see crumby Paint Shop Pro drawing... circa 2003)
To hold these elements spread apart, and vertical, I simply used electrical tape
to secure the wires to a length of 1" PVC and stuck it in the air (about 5 feet
off the ground)... making for a vertically polarized dipole.
As you can see, the length of each is element is 21.5" long. For anyone doing
the math, that puts the fundamental frequency around 130MHz, not the 122.5MHz
I suggested we shoot for in my previous post. Why? Well, I didn't plan to navigate
with this antenna, so I didn't care about the lower portion of the air
band... my interest was 118-137MHz, so I picked a nice round number near the middle
of the voice portion of the band and hit the calculator... 234/130MHz=1.8feet...
nice round numbers, right? If I multiply 1.8*12 I get 21.6 inches...
21.5 was close enough for this project, and since I was sharing this information
with a friend at the time, I proceeded to keep it simple. Here is a shot
I took for that friend to illustrate the overall size of this simple antenna...
pretty small eh? I know, I know... I look way too serious in this photo. Ha!
In case that's not geeked out enough, here is a flame thrower I built for a wireless
communications class project back in 2003. I am normally into HF communications,
which means BIG antennas and BIG power, but in order to keep things
simple (small) and level the playing field, our instructor asked everyone to design
and build an antenna for 144MHz... the 2M amateur radio band. I'll cut
to the chase and simply describe that this a 5-element cubical quad. A quad is
a full-wave loop antenna... meaning that the elements are one full wavelength
long, not a half wave, or a measly quarter wave (as we are talking about with
our air band antennas). A quad is efficient, quiet (low noise signature) and
provides high gain. The main drawback, especially in the HF world, is that
the are very large and have a high wind loading... i.e. they get blown around
or load up with ice and crumble easier than other designs. How good is this design?
It smoked everyone in the class, including my instructor. The next closest
antenna was my instructor's TEN element yagi... picture an old TV type antenna
with the elements stacked one in front of the other. For you other geeks
out there, the numbers that matter... 9.3dBd gain. Three s-units over a dipole!
I was able to trip a repeater in Choteau, Oklahoma, roughly 40 miles away
on ~3 watts of power with the antenna on a 10' mast. The trick? Fine tuning
(SWR was well under 2:1 for the entire band, and 1:1 at our test frequency...
146MHz), and low loss feed line... I used bury-flex LMR400, which only cost
me about .1dB of attenuation at these frequencies. Oh, just for the record,
there was a well built J-pole in the mix that belonged to my lab partner... weak!
But then again, I don't think anyone wants to mount a quad to their airplane
or contact an airport in the next state!
Any questions? LOL!
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369315#369315
Message 11
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| Subject: | Questions answered, doubts dispelled |
I'm in Florida a few days before Sun 'n Fun to hang out with an old friend from
college. Yesterday (Friday), I caught up with Ben Charvet at his hangar in Titusville
to get a good hard look at a running Piet and get as many questions as
I could think of answered. The most nagging was if I could fit in one. I'm 6'1"
and 210 lb (or I was until my friend started feeding Thursday night upon my
arrival. After some initial introductions and a little dialog, Ben asked if
I wanted to go flying while the weather looked nice, and we could talk more once
we landed. I'm certainly not going to decline an offer like that, so after
a brief tutorial on front-hole entry, I was in and we were gone.
We went east (there really ain't a whole lot more east to be had before that ocean
starts looking pretty big) and tried to do an aerial tour of the Space Center.
But we didn't get a response from them to a radio call, so we turned north
and ran up the beach. The air was smooth and the weather was warm (from a NH
perspective, we'd be calling that hot, with an added expletive or two) and sunny,
although I was at least in the shade tucked up underneath the wing. It was
really a perfect day for a flight like that. Ben let me fly for quite a bit,
but honestly, the plane was trimmed and happy, so it pretty much flew itself,
and any significant input from me would have just screwed-up the moment. This
was the classic low-and-slow that this type of plane lives for; a blend of both
exhilaration and peace at the same time.
When we landed, Ben first showed me how he gets into the business seat, then I
tried it. He's a lot more limber and practiced of this maneuver than I am, but
I managed to get in. Ben's plane is a long fuse, to plans, so I was very impressed
with the relative spaciousness of the rear seat. It was a lot roomier than
I expected, so it was like a weight of doubt was lifted from me. I've heard
(and been counciled on) sad stories of people spending years to build their dream
plane, only to find they couldn't fit in it or they didn't like (or couldn't
handle) its behavior. There's absolutely no way I was going to set myself
up for something like that, but it's not gonna happen here; we're good. We pushed
the plane back into the hangar, and then I accepted an invitation to meet
Ben's wife for lunch at a local restaurant and ride in his beautiful model-A truck
to get there. Lunch was wonderful. The restaurant cuisine available to us
near our home in northern NH doesn't include a lot of variety (unless you count
the 99's; I don't), so I try to eat well when I'm traveling and this restaurant
served an exceptional lunch.
We returned to his hangar after lunch and discussed a lot of detail about construction
methods and materials, and removed a couple inspection panels to get a
detailed look at some airplane guts. Ben answered all my questions with patience,
grace, and pragmatism. Everybody building a plane has their balances between
short-cutting construction techniques and materials, and being ridiculously
anal about them. I find Ben's balances to be very similary to my own, which
was also a pleasant surprise. We parted ways mid-afternoon.
I guess I'm running out of excuses why I haven't started mine yet.
My great thanks to Ben for the boost.
Jim Ash
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