Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:03 AM - Fuel tank- ready to weld (helspersew@aol.com)
2. 04:09 AM - Fuel tank (helspersew@aol.com)
3. 04:25 AM - Re: Re: talk to me about seat cushion material (helspersew@aol.com)
4. 04:51 AM - Re: Any thoughts on this idea for turnbuckles (Kyle85)
5. 05:43 AM - Re: Fuel tank (Michael Perez)
6. 06:01 AM - Re: Windscreen options (John Kuhfahl)
7. 06:51 AM - Re: Re: Any thoughts on this idea for turnbuckles (norm)
8. 06:57 AM - Covering is under way.... (Jim Markle)
9. 07:06 AM - Re: Covering is under way.... (K5YAC)
10. 07:34 AM - Re: Re: Covering is under way.... (Michael Perez)
11. 07:36 AM - Re: Covering is under way.... (Gary Boothe)
12. 08:08 AM - Flanging dies (Gary Boothe)
13. 08:36 AM - more on turnbuckles (Timothy Willis)
14. 08:44 AM - Re: more on turnbuckles (Ken Bickers)
15. 09:19 AM - Re: Flanging dies (Rick Schreiber)
16. 09:24 AM - Re: more on turnbuckles (Rick Schreiber)
17. 09:54 AM - Re: Any thoughts on this idea for turnbuckles (Kenneth Howe)
18. 11:52 AM - Re: more on turnbuckles (Barry Davis)
19. 01:16 PM - Temperpedic style foam for your Piet seats (darmahboy@aol.com)
20. 01:45 PM - Re: Re: Covering is under way.... (Ryan Mueller)
21. 01:45 PM - Re: Covering is under way.... (Ryan Mueller)
22. 04:53 PM - possible idea (skellytown flyer)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Fuel tank- ready to weld |
Good people,
After 6 solid days of work, I have finally finished the fabrication of my n
ew tank, and am ready to weld. I learned a lot along the way about flow-for
ming aluminum. As you can see by the photos, there is a huge resultant diff
erence between using a steel as opposed to a plastic insert in the rivet gu
n. The forming surface underneath is 3/4" thick MFD board (Lowe's) routed-o
ut to form whatever beads or troughs you happened to need. I bought that fl
ow-forming (rivet gun) tool from tinmantech.com, with the white plastic ins
ert. The plastic insert that comes with it is flat. I bought additional ins
ert material from Mcmastercarr.com (1-1/4" diameter UHMW rod) and formed it
with my small lathe and band saw.
I would be happy to answer any questions, but I may not get back to you til
l tomorrow. Hope this helps somebody.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL
Message 2
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The flanged holes were formed using the MFD board also. Cut a hole in the M
FD board then use a round-over router bit to taper the inside of the hole.
Cut the hole in the aluminum about 1/2" smaller. Then force a "plug" down i
nto the aluminum to form the flange. I just happened to have some tapered c
ast iron grommet-setting dies that worked nicely, but the plugs can be form
ed with the MFD board also.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: talk to me about seat cushion material |
The cane seats are really cool to look at, but as far as comfort goes, its
only worth about 15 minutes farther than the flat plywood seat!
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL
-----Original Message-----
From: IT Girl <shlizbth@gmail.com>
Sent: Wed, Mar 28, 2012 8:21 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: talk to me about seat cushion material
Hi Douwe,
My 2 cents. The front seat, based on the plans has very little if any angl
e in
he seat back, and is just not designed to be comfortable. The seat itself
is
nly about 11" wide? at best and the passenger and seat cushion must stay cl
ear
f the pilots feet. We have put a lot of time, energy, and money into cushi
ons
o make that seat more comfortable for me and the only real secret is short
lights. I cannot take 6 hour days in the front seat.
Now if you can get Dan Helsper to chime in.... I think that his cane seats
are
he answer! If Kevin would let me, I would make that upgrade!..... But Kevi
n is
slacker... I'll take it up with Ken, we all know that he does all of the w
ork
nyway.
From: kevinpurtee
ubject: Re: talk to me about seat cushion material
o: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
ate: Tuesday, March 27, 2012, 10:54 AM
-> Pietenpol-List message posted
y: "kevinpurtee"
Hi Douwe - I do fly.=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD
Shelley made the cushions.=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD We used the high-dollar
oam from aircraft spruce and she bought a cow-hide off ebay
nd used it to make both seat cushions and the coaming,
imilar to what Jack described.=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD Also similar to Jack,
he layered the various densities to make the cushions more
omfortable.=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD I believe the cushions are 2".
In the back: the bottom cushion takes up almost the whole
eat bottom and is not secured by anything but my
utt.=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD That has never, ever created a problem.=C3=AF=C2
=C2=BD It
oes not move.=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD My back rest cushion is a neck pillow
hat she covered in duck cloth of an appropriate color (same
abric as the cockpit covers).=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD BTW: The duck cloth on
he cockpit covers shrinks and the red trim bleeds color
hen wet.=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD
In the front: she made a cushion that takes up the tiny seat
ottom.=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD Even with the high-dollar foam people get
ncomfortable up there pretty quick.
My record day was 500 miles and that's pretty tiring.=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD
he seat cushion was not a problem, though.=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD As you may
e aware, the trips from Texas to Brodhead are 3 days each
ay and I fly a lot while at Brodhead.
Hope this helps.
--------
evin "Axel" Purtee
X899KP
ustin/San Marcos, TX
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369409#369409
--------
helley Tumino
T Girl
ife of "Axel"
X899KP
DO NOT ARCHIVE
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369462#369462
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Any thoughts on this idea for turnbuckles |
Thanks for the input guys! I really do like the tigermoth turnbuckles. Although,
I may just bite the bullet and buy some. Heck, I don't think I could make my
own for under $8
Kyle
--------
Airspeed, altitude or brains: Two are always needed to successfully complete the
flight.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369819#369819
Message 5
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Tank looks really nice. About how many gallons?
Attached are pictures of the dies I made to do my hole flanges.- The dies
pictured are fresh off the lathe, they were cut/faced down to be quite a b
it shorter prior to use. The one half self aligns as it is pressed into the
other. I squeezed them in a vice with the part between them.
I made two different sizes.- I then found access to a slew of actual airc
raft flange dies..figures...
Michael Perez
=0AKaretaker Aero
=0Awww.karetakeraero.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Windscreen options |
Thanks Oscar. engine is done but want to fit-in cowling,sheet metal and
windscreen before I finish plumbing. So I think I can fit these wind
screens in. You are the only one to respond. i think they look good...when
are you heading this way?
On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 1:59 PM, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Nice work, John. On the windscreens, will you just be
>
> using those for patterns to make some that follow the
>
> curves of the boot cowl, or do you intend to put the
>
> metal stretcher/crimper to those and make them fit?
>
>
> And when are you going to fire up the engine? It almost
>
> looks like you could hook fuel up to it and pull it
>
> through.
>
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket"
> Medford/Ashland, OR
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
--
John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret),
President, KUHLCOUPER LLC
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Any thoughts on this idea for turnbuckles |
On short cables such as the tailfeathers you can eliminate the turnbuckles,
,just twisting the cable once or twice gives plenty of adjustment - Norm
--- On Mon, 4/2/12, Kyle85 <boschkyle@hotmail.com> wrote:
From: Kyle85 <boschkyle@hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Any thoughts on this idea for turnbuckles
Thanks for the input guys! I really do like the tigermoth turnbuckles. Alth
ough, I may just bite the bullet and buy some. Heck, I don't think I could
make my own for under $8
Kyle
--------
Airspeed, altitude or brains: Two are always needed to successfully complet
e the flight.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369819#369819
le, List Admin.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Covering is under way.... |
And incredibly fun!
Still needs edge tape and some clean up here and there but...."The People's Plane"
sees some progress!
Jim in Pryor
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Covering is under way.... |
Looking good Jim!
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369833#369833
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Covering is under way.... |
"You have taken your fist step into a larger world."
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
Message 11
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| Subject: | Covering is under way.... |
Looks great, Jim! I love the smell of the shrinking fabric...
Gary from Cool
NX308MB
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 6:57 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Covering is under way....
And incredibly fun!
Still needs edge tape and some clean up here and there but...."The People's Plane"
sees some progress!
Jim in Pryor
Message 12
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Your dies are exquisite, Michael (and Dan)! Lest anyone get the wrong
impression that you need a metal lathe and metal working skills, attached
are some flanging dies that I made from scrap plywood for my 601 project.
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Perez
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 5:43 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tank
Tank looks really nice. About how many gallons?
Attached are pictures of the dies I made to do my hole flanges. The dies
pictured are fresh off the lathe, they were cut/faced down to be quite a bit
shorter prior to use. The one half self aligns as it is pressed into the
other. I squeezed them in a vice with the part between them.
I made two different sizes. I then found access to a slew of actual
aircraft flange dies..figures...
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
Message 13
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| Subject: | more on turnbuckles |
I bought some turnbuckles from B&B over the phone about a year ago. I
recall the price was not the commonly quoted "$8 price." It was about
double that, but still half of what ASS demands for them. I gather
that B&B has periodic specials or some such.
In any event, I was glad to have B&B as a source; I am not
complaining. The quality of the product is excellent, the lady n the
phone was pleasant and efficient, and I got the items quickly.
The Tiger Moth style turnbuckles look like a good design for inside
the wings. Gardiner (airlion) mentioned not much travel on an
aircraft bolt. I have not used these on my project, but you could buy
and use Class 5 bolts for this application. This is a straight
tension application, so the vaunted ability of aircraft bolts to flex
and recover in shear, etc., is not an issue. What is an issue is
corrosion. See if you can find plated Class 5 bolts.
Another solution for the "turnbuckles" for drag and anti-drag wires in
the wings is eyebolts. The Big Piet guys in GA used them. Barry
Davis showed this at Brodhead in (I forget?) either 2006 or 2008.
Barry told me at that time they used standard hardware eyebolts, which
have an opening, but welded that opening closed. If they are plated,
you have welding oxide safety issues while welding and corrosion
issues afterwards, easily solved by paint or powder. The plated
threads would not be affected and would need neither. Standard
hardware eyebolts should work very well and are very inexpensive.
You can buy cast steel eyebolts for about $8 each, in which the eye is
completely closed. The ones with which I am familiar have a light
gray oxide finish, so further corrosion resistance would be required.
These are very strong and seem a straightforward solution, as well.
No welding.
FWIW I am using 100 percent aviation turnbuckles, but admire anyone
tinkering with safe alternatives, self-fabrication, etc., especially
in ways in keeping with the Pietenpol tradition. Hey, no titanium or
carbon fiber!
Tim in central TX
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: more on turnbuckles |
I'm not sure from the drawing if it is easy to insert the bolt. If it
is, why not just experiment with AN bolts until finding the length
that is right? Also, I'd sure rather see a castellated nut at the
other end, since cables can vibrate and move around a bit. Cheers,
Ken
On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 9:35 AM, Timothy Willis <timwillis01@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I bought some turnbuckles from B&B over the phone about a year ago. I
> recall the price was not the commonly quoted "$8 price." It was about
> double that, but still half of what ASS demands for them. I gather
> that B&B has periodic specials or some such.
>
> In any event, I was glad to have B&B as a source; I am not
> complaining. The quality of the product is excellent, the lady n the
> phone was pleasant and efficient, and I got the items quickly.
>
> The Tiger Moth style turnbuckles look like a good design for inside
> the wings. Gardiner (airlion) mentioned not much travel on an
> aircraft bolt. I have not used these on my project, but you could buy
> and use Class 5 bolts for this application. This is a straight
> tension application, so the vaunted ability of aircraft bolts to flex
> and recover in shear, etc., is not an issue. What is an issue is
> corrosion. See if you can find plated Class 5 bolts.
>
> Another solution for the "turnbuckles" for drag and anti-drag wires in
> the wings is eyebolts. The Big Piet guys in GA used them. Barry
> Davis showed this at Brodhead in (I forget?) either 2006 or 2008.
> Barry told me at that time they used standard hardware eyebolts, which
> have an opening, but welded that opening closed. If they are plated,
> you have welding oxide safety issues while welding and corrosion
> issues afterwards, easily solved by paint or powder. The plated
> threads would not be affected and would need neither. Standard
> hardware eyebolts should work very well and are very inexpensive.
>
> You can buy cast steel eyebolts for about $8 each, in which the eye is
> completely closed. The ones with which I am familiar have a light
> gray oxide finish, so further corrosion resistance would be required.
> These are very strong and seem a straightforward solution, as well.
> No welding.
>
> FWIW I am using 100 percent aviation turnbuckles, but admire anyone
> tinkering with safe alternatives, self-fabrication, etc., especially
> in ways in keeping with the Pietenpol tradition. Hey, no titanium or
> carbon fiber!
>
> Tim in central TX
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Flanging dies |
On 4/2/2012 10:07 AM, Gary Boothe wrote:
>
> Your dies are exquisite, Michael (and Dan)! Lest anyone get the wrong
> impression that you need a metal lathe and metal working skills,
> attached are some flanging dies that I made from scrap plywood for my
> 601 project.
>
> Gary Boothe
>
> NX308MB
>
>
Very cool Gary! Good to know that this is another way to do it.
Rick Schreiber
Valparaiso, IN
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: more on turnbuckles |
On 4/2/2012 10:35 AM, Timothy Willis wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Timothy Willis<timwillis01@gmail.com>
>
> I bought some turnbuckles from B&B over the phone about a year ago. I
> recall the price was not the commonly quoted "$8 price." It was about
> double that, but still half of what ASS demands for them. I gather
> that B&B has periodic specials or some such.
>
> In any event, I was glad to have B&B as a source; I am not
> complaining. The quality of the product is excellent, the lady n the
> phone was pleasant and efficient, and I got the items quickly.
>
> ...................................
> Tim in central TX
>
Tim:
B&B aircraft supplies was sold recently. The old price prior to sale was
$2.50 per part or $10.00 per complete turnbuckle. The new owners have
raised the prices, but still less than ACS.
Rick Schreiber
Valparaiso, IN
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Any thoughts on this idea for turnbuckles |
Kyle,
If I'm understanding your sketch, it looks like it would put a bending force on
the bolt, not pure tension. The tiger moth style puts all of the forces in-line.
Ken
On Mar 31, 2012, at 6:09 PM, Kyle85 wrote:
>
> One of the great things about building an experimental airplanes is that you
can demonstrate certain ideas and concepts. Turnbuckles are critical safety items,
but I believe that there is a way to duplicate the function of an aviation
grade turnbuckle by using all aircraft grade parts for a fraction of the cost
and the satisfaction of overcoming a design problem. The picture below is somthing
I drew up based on someones design that posted a picture of their turnbuckles.
I am not an engineer, the reason I am posting this is to get opinions
from those of you that have some real experiences and have knowledge that extends
beyond my own. In the end I want a safe airplane and not break my limited
budget. Oh yeah, this turnbucke(if I decide to follow through with it) will only
be used in some areas such as inside the wing and maybe a few other places.
>
> --------
> Airspeed, altitude or brains: Two are always needed to successfully complete
the flight.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369731#369731
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/turnbuckle_207.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | more on turnbuckles |
Good memory Tim,
The eye bolts we used were from McMaster Carr and had rolled threads their
entire length. We used them for drag/anti-drag inside the wing. Seems like
they were about $1.00 each including shipping. We built a jig and pulled to
destruction of around 5000 Lbs. The jig broke, but the eyebolt did not. Just
before the jig came apart, the eye went from a circle to a slight oval. We
figured that if you pulled over 5000 Lbs and broke the eyebolt, you were
really having a bad day and don't think that the wing would survive anyway.
But as they walked up to the crumpled pile, they could say "Wow that really
looks terrible, but it sure didn't hurt those eyebolts!"
Barry
NX973BP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Timothy
Willis
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 11:35 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: more on turnbuckles
--> <timwillis01@gmail.com>
I bought some turnbuckles from B&B over the phone about a year ago. I
recall the price was not the commonly quoted "$8 price." It was about
double that, but still half of what ASS demands for them. I gather that B&B
has periodic specials or some such.
In any event, I was glad to have B&B as a source; I am not complaining. The
quality of the product is excellent, the lady n the phone was pleasant and
efficient, and I got the items quickly.
The Tiger Moth style turnbuckles look like a good design for inside the
wings. Gardiner (airlion) mentioned not much travel on an aircraft bolt. I
have not used these on my project, but you could buy and use Class 5 bolts
for this application. This is a straight tension application, so the
vaunted ability of aircraft bolts to flex and recover in shear, etc., is not
an issue. What is an issue is corrosion. See if you can find plated Class
5 bolts.
Another solution for the "turnbuckles" for drag and anti-drag wires in
the wings is eyebolts. The Big Piet guys in GA used them. Barry
Davis showed this at Brodhead in (I forget?) either 2006 or 2008.
Barry told me at that time they used standard hardware eyebolts, which have
an opening, but welded that opening closed. If they are plated, you have
welding oxide safety issues while welding and corrosion issues afterwards,
easily solved by paint or powder. The plated threads would not be affected
and would need neither. Standard hardware eyebolts should work very well
and are very inexpensive.
You can buy cast steel eyebolts for about $8 each, in which the eye is
completely closed. The ones with which I am familiar have a light gray
oxide finish, so further corrosion resistance would be required.
These are very strong and seem a straightforward solution, as well.
No welding.
FWIW I am using 100 percent aviation turnbuckles, but admire anyone
tinkering with safe alternatives, self-fabrication, etc., especially in ways
in keeping with the Pietenpol tradition. Hey, no titanium or carbon fiber!
Tim in central TX
Message 19
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| Subject: | Temperpedic style foam for your Piet seats |
Hey guys
A very economical alternative seat foam is Ikea's ergonomic shaped beddin
g pillows.
They feel very much like the "Temperpedic space age foam" mattress material
but are only
about $18.00 a piece. It takes two per Piet seat. They are kinda shaped fun
ny for your neck and shoulders
but I sit on mine. I also put one in my Grumman Lynx when I give young eag
le rides as a booster seat
so they can see over the panel while they're perfoming knife-edge flight &
stuff. See ya @ Brodhead
Tail winds, Bob Poore, Minneapolis A.K.A. Greg
Cardinal & Dick Navratil's wingman.
Piet NX29LD Conti eng, 3 piece wing, cub gear.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Covering is under way.... |
I don't think Jim's into that...
do not archive
On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>wrote:
> "You have taken your fist step into a larger world."
>
> Michael Perez
> Karetaker Aero
> www.karetakeraero.com
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Covering is under way.... |
Looking good Jim, congrats
Ryan
do not archive
On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 8:57 AM, Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com>wrote:
> And incredibly fun!
>
> Still needs edge tape and some clean up here and there but...."The
> People's Plane" sees some progress!
>
> Jim in Pryor
>
>
Message 22
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Well this is probably not useful to many but I saw it on the Ragwing site today.the
fellow had hinged the seat back so that it folded down with a hole that slipped
over the control stick to make a control lock that also had to be hinged
up to fly. Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369897#369897
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