Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:45 AM - Re: Wouldn't it be better if. . . (Ben Charvet)
2. 06:36 AM - Re: Wouldn't it be better if. . . (norm)
3. 06:36 AM - Re: Wouldn't it be better if. . . (tools)
4. 07:27 AM - Re: Wouldn't it be better if. . . (jimcarriere)
5. 07:38 AM - Re: Re: Wouldn't it be better if. . . (airlion)
6. 08:14 AM - Re: Re: Wouldn't it be better if. . . (Chris)
7. 08:30 AM - Re: Wouldn't it be better if. . . (flea)
8. 09:37 AM - Re: Wouldn't it be better if. . . (Jerry Dotson)
9. 10:09 AM - Re: Wouldn't it be better if. . . (jimcarriere)
10. 10:32 AM - fuse access (Douwe Blumberg)
11. 01:00 PM - Re: Wouldn't it be better if. . . (flea)
12. 01:40 PM - This came in the mail (Ben Charvet)
13. 01:52 PM - Re: This came in the mail (Ken Bickers)
14. 03:25 PM - Re: This came in the mail (Jack Phillips)
15. 04:32 PM - Re: This came in the mail (Ray Krause)
16. 05:12 PM - first flight (Donald Lane)
17. 06:33 PM - Re: first flight (Jack Phillips)
18. 06:45 PM - Re: This came in the mail (curtdm(at)gmail.com)
19. 10:26 PM - Re: fuse access (flea)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Wouldn't it be better if. . . |
Only problem I can see, is if you build the turtledeck light, the fabric
might deform it when shrunk.
Ben
On 4/7/2012 1:09 AM, flea wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "flea"<jimgriggs@yahoo.com>
>
> Ok, so I always told myself I wouldn't second guess 90 years of success. I wouldn't
try re-inventing the better mousetrap or re-discovering fire.
>
> But here is my mousetrap.
>
> I have been working on my Piet for some time now, and the wood work is about
90% done. I have built and re-built it probably a dozen times now as things look
wrong to me. One of these areas has been my turtle deck, you know that area
with all the stringers - well mine was doo doo, so some quick work with a saw
and it's gone. After seeing the plane with that turtle deck removed, I was struck
with either a flash of brilliance, or an attack of cranial-rectal infusion.
I need your help deciding which it is.
> What I was thinking was that the turtle deck from behind the pilot's seat and
extending back those first two bays could be removable or hinged to open like
a lid on an old trunk. The idea is that upon completion, it would make inspection
and maintenance MUCH easier than trying to go through some little inspection
holes.
>
> Now if I understand the engineering correctly, the strength of the fuse comes
from the 1X1 longerons and all of the associated trusses etc. The turtle deck
is there for aerodynamic and aesthetic reasons. I am not proposing to change
anything about the longerons or even the shape of the deck, just make it removable,
and held on with a series of leather straps and buckles to fit in with the
period of the design.
> Am I way off on this? will I be adversely affecting the structural integrity
of the design? That is of course the only real question, I don't want to sacrifice
safety.
>
> I know I can do anything I want, but is this a dangerous plot destined for the
headlines?
>
> Jim
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370192#370192
>
>
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Wouldn't it be better if. . . |
That is exactly the way the Bowers Flybaby rear deck is done ,it's simply h
eld in place with 2 dowels in the rear and hartwell latches in the cockpit
, check out the Flybaby website.. Norm
--- On Sat, 4/7/12, flea <jimgriggs@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: flea <jimgriggs@yahoo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wouldn't it be better if. . .
Ok, so I always told myself I wouldn't second guess 90 years of success. I
wouldn't try re-inventing the better mousetrap or re-discovering fire.
But here is my mousetrap.
I have been working on my Piet for some time now, and the wood work is abou
t 90% done. I have built and re-built it probably a dozen times now as thin
gs look wrong to me. One of these areas has been my turtle deck, you know t
hat area with all the stringers - well mine was doo doo, so some quick work
with a saw and it's gone. After seeing the plane with that turtle deck rem
oved, I was struck with either a flash of brilliance, or an attack of crani
al-rectal infusion. I need your help deciding which it is.
What I was thinking was that the turtle deck from behind the pilot's seat a
nd extending back those first two bays could be removable or hinged to open
like a lid on an old trunk. The idea is that upon completion, it would mak
e inspection and maintenance MUCH easier than trying to go through some lit
tle inspection holes.
Now if I understand the engineering correctly, the strength of the fuse com
es from the 1X1 longerons and all of the associated trusses etc. The turtle
deck is there for aerodynamic and aesthetic reasons. I am not proposing to
change anything about the longerons or even the shape of the deck, just ma
ke it removable, and held on with a series of leather straps and buckles to
fit in with the period of the design.
Am I way off on this? will I be adversely affecting the structural integrit
y- of the design? That is of course the only real question, I don't want
to sacrifice safety.
I know I- can do anything I want, but is this a dangerous plot destined f
or the headlines?
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370192#370192
le, List Admin.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Wouldn't it be better if. . . |
The Standard J1 biplane has a similar fuse and removable turtle deck. Seems not
to cause any problems.
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370204#370204
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Wouldn't it be better if. . . |
Something else to consider about the turtle deck is that it can help with the shoulder
belt routing. This is a somewhat arcane subject that is near and dear
to my heart...
The short version is that the shoulder belt should attach to the aircraft behind
and at approximately horizontal from your shoulders rather than behind and below
(a behind-and-below attachment not only holds you in the seat but it can
also compress your spine in a severe crash- but a straight behind attachment just
holds you in the seat without hurting your back). The turtledeck can provide
a really handy standoff for a shoulder belt guide and then the actual attachment
point can be just about anywhere in the tail.
The Bingelis book with the blue cover (Sportplane Builder) and AC 43.13-2b both
do a good job of explaining this in pictures.
... and I know that a lot of you Piet builders out there know this because I look
at your pictures of the beautiful work you've done on your airplanes
:D
Just some food for thought
-Jim
(Kitfox builder and Pietenpol aficionado)
--------
Jim in NW FL
Kitfox Series 7 in progress
Rotec R2800
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370208#370208
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Wouldn't it be better if. . . |
where in nw florida are you Jim? I will be driving to Destin the latter part of
April and would like to see your Kitfox if it is close by. Gardiner Mason.
--- On Sat, 4/7/12, jimcarriere <jimcarriere@yahoo.com> wrote:
> From: jimcarriere <jimcarriere@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wouldn't it be better if. . .
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, April 7, 2012, 10:27 AM
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted
> by: "jimcarriere" <jimcarriere@yahoo.com>
>
> Something else to consider about the turtle deck is that it
> can help with the shoulder belt routing. This is a
> somewhat arcane subject that is near and dear to my
> heart...
>
> The short version is that the shoulder belt should attach to
> the aircraft behind and at approximately horizontal from
> your shoulders rather than behind and below (a
> behind-and-below attachment not only holds you in the seat
> but it can also compress your spine in a severe crash- but a
> straight behind attachment just holds you in the seat
> without hurting your back). The turtledeck can provide
> a really handy standoff for a shoulder belt guide and then
> the actual attachment point can be just about anywhere in
> the tail.
>
> The Bingelis book with the blue cover (Sportplane Builder)
> and AC 43.13-2b both do a good job of explaining this in
> pictures.
>
> ... and I know that a lot of you Piet builders out there
> know this because I look at your pictures of the beautiful
> work you've done on your airplanes
> :D
>
>
>
> Just some food for thought
> -Jim
> (Kitfox builder and Pietenpol aficionado)
>
> --------
> Jim in NW FL
> Kitfox Series 7 in progress
> Rotec R2800
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370208#370208
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Email Forum -
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Wouldn't it be better if. . . |
Jim
Here is a sketch Mike Cuy drew of his access door.
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Mike%20Cuy%20A-65%20Piet/images/Piet_belly_a
ccess_door.jpg
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flea
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 11:10 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wouldn't it be better if. . .
Weight is always a concern, and one I have thought about. But like I said,
or meant to say anyhow, it is very open with it removed. I hadn't thought
about an aluminum panel on the bottom though, that might well be a better
idea.
What prompted the question is that I have studied literally hundreds of
pictures in every stage of construction, thank you everyone that has
uploaded to west coast piet. And have never seen that in there. figured
there must be a reason. Anyway, AL panel on the bottom sounds like a better
idea. Thanks.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370194#370194
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Wouldn't it be better if. . . |
I really appreciate all the input. Now I'm going back to the removeable deck again.
I like the idea of being able to peer down in there.
Jim, the shoulder belt routing should not be affected by this at all. That bulkhead
that has the hat box in it will still be there with the belt slots cut in
it. The front bulkhead of the removeable portion would be open enough to allow
the box to still be there and for the belts to run through. Think of a big C
made of ply.
As far as being too flimsy for the covering, that was the reason I cut off the
original I built. This would have the same basic design, the primary difference
is that it would be built on longerons of their own rather the plane's longerons.
At any rate, if there is no structural/safety reason not to do it, then I will
just build it up and see how the weight looks. From a praticality stand point,
a 52 x 24 inch inspection hole is tough to beat.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370215#370215
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Wouldn't it be better if. . . |
I made an aluminum sheet frame and cover it with fabric. It is not very heavy and
seems to work fine. The picture is of the inside showing the frame.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
now covering and painting
21" wheels
Lycoming O-235 C2C
Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370219#370219
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/a14_109.jpg
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Wouldn't it be better if. . . |
[quote="flea"]
Jim, the shoulder belt routing should not be affected by this at all. That bulkhead
that has the hat box in it will still be there with the belt slots cut in
it. The front bulkhead of the removeable portion would be open enough to allow
the box to still be there and for the belts to run through. Think of a big C
made of ply.[/quote]
Ah, thank you- this makes plenty of sense to me. It seems that I misunderstood
your initial post. (I hope I didn't come across as the pontificating guest in
the group.)
Cheers
Jim
--------
Jim in NW FL
Kitfox Series 7 in progress
Rotec R2800
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370223#370223
Message 10
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Since you really don't need to access the fuselage behind the pilot's seat
very often, I think it makes more sense to simply install a very thin
aluminum sheet on the bottom of those first two bays. Really only adds a
few ounces over cloth, and is very adequate for the occasional inspection,
and it would certainly weigh less than a hinged turtledeck.
Cool idea, but sounds unnecessarily gimmicky and kinda like over thinking a
relatively "non-issue" item.
$.02 (and worth every penny!)
Douwe
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Wouldn't it be better if. . . |
jimcarriere wrote:
>
> Ah, thank you- this makes plenty of sense to me. It seems that I misunderstood
your initial post. (I hope I didn't come across as the pontificating guest
in the group.)
>
> Cheers
> Jim
Not at all. I am looking for input, if there is a safety (most important) reason
for not doing it that I can't see, I want to know about it.
Deviating from the plans in a significant way should involve engineering. I am
not an engineer, so I have not deviated at all to this point. This one change
has had me thinking for some time and asking for input. I really do appreciate
this list and all the photos on westcoastpiet. These two sources have been of
tremendous value.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370243#370243
Message 12
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| Subject: | This came in the mail |
Well, it was the only all wood homebuilt there
Sent from my iPhone
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: This came in the mail |
Congratulations!!
On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 2:40 PM, Ben Charvet <bencharvet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well, it was the only all wood homebuilt there
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
>
>
> </b></font></pre>
Message 14
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| Subject: | This came in the mail |
Outstanding, Ben!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Charvet
Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 4:40 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: This came in the mail
Well, it was the only all wood homebuilt there
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: This came in the mail |
Ben,
>From what I have seen in all the photos, you certainly deserve this!
Congratulations.
Ray Krause
Building Sky Scout
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Charvet" <bencharvet@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 1:40 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: This came in the mail
> Well, it was the only all wood homebuilt there
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List</a>
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com</a>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution</a>
>
> </b></font></pre>
Message 16
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Today I flew Pietenpol N110DL for the first time. It was flown by a
friend,last year, the day before Hurricane Irene.
Just two friends were there and the only picture we got was a 13 sec
video. There were thousands of seagulls as witnesses, you can hear
their voices in the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvrfW4WaVMQ&context=C4fc3695ADvjVQa1Pp
cFOwpmtyF8YdSrDkk5TXXrih7zfjGMGLFm4
I seem to have solved the sticking exhaust valve problem, by putting a
little Marvel Mystery Oil in the fuel. The engine runs great now.
The airplane handles well, but I need to get smoother air to really get
the feel of it. Many thanks to all on the list who have given me good
advice and encouragement, especially Jack Phillips.
Don Lane
Message 17
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Great, Don! Glad to hear that you've finally gotten to fly your beautiful
Pietenpol. Now you need to fly the time off so you can fly it to Brodhead
and let everyone else see what a fine airplane you've built.
Jacl Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Donald Lane
Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 8:10 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: first flight
Today I flew Pietenpol N110DL for the first time. It was flown by a
friend,last year, the day before Hurricane Irene.
Just two friends were there and the only picture we got was a 13 sec video.
There were thousands of seagulls as witnesses, you can hear their voices in
the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvrfW4WaVMQ
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvrfW4WaVMQ&context=C4fc3695ADvjVQa1PpcFOwpm
tyF8YdSrDkk5TXXrih7zfjGMGLFm4>
&context=C4fc3695ADvjVQa1PpcFOwpmtyF8YdSrDkk5TXXrih7zfjGMGLFm4
I seem to have solved the sticking exhaust valve problem, by putting a
little Marvel Mystery Oil in the fuel. The engine runs great now.
The airplane handles well, but I need to get smoother air to really get the
feel of it. Many thanks to all on the list who have given me good advice
and encouragement, especially Jack Phillips.
Don Lane
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: This came in the mail |
Congratulations Ben! I can't wait to see it in person.
Curt Merdan
Flower Mound, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370258#370258
Message 19
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I'm good at creating non-issues then over thinking them.
The hinge would be difficult anyway, there is a gentle curve in the fuse.
Anyway, I will put this side trip on the back burner for a while. I know have other
ideas to kick around, Aluminum sheet on the bottom for one. The idea was
to make inspection and access easier. A flat sheet on the bottom does that just
as well and is easier. For now I will work on some other things and let this
simmer for a while.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370269#370269
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