Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:56 AM - 100LL Additive (TriScout)
2. 06:59 AM - Re: Real world gross wt/useful load (kevinpurtee)
3. 07:09 AM - Re: Lightweight vs medium dacron.chiffon is nice too (kevinpurtee)
4. 07:15 AM - Re: 100LL Additive (Ben Charvet)
5. 07:37 AM - Re: 100LL Additive (Dan Yocum)
6. 07:43 AM - Re: 100LL Additive (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB)
7. 08:04 AM - Re: 100LL Additive (John Hofmann)
8. 08:25 AM - Re: 100LL Additive (Jim Ash)
9. 10:01 AM - Re: Real world weight/useful load (Woodflier@aol.com)
10. 10:54 AM - Re: Re: Real world weight/useful load (Michael Perez)
11. 10:58 AM - Re: Lightweight vs medium dacron.chiffon is nice too (K5YAC)
12. 11:20 AM - Marvel mystery oil (Dick N)
13. 11:21 AM - Re: Real world weight/useful load (Skagit)
14. 12:06 PM - Re: Marvel mystery oil (womenfly2)
15. 01:31 PM - Hinge Lugs (K5YAC)
16. 02:05 PM - Re: Hinge Lugs (Bill Church)
17. 03:53 PM - Re: Re: Marvel mystery oil (Dick N)
18. 04:21 PM - Re: Re: Marvel mystery oil (Jim Ash)
19. 05:12 PM - Re: Marvel mystery oil (Ben Charvet)
20. 05:59 PM - Question for GN-1 drivers (John Franklin)
21. 06:03 PM - Re: Marvel mystery oil (C N Campbell)
22. 06:57 PM - update on NX53WE (Bob edson)
Message 1
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Hello all..
I'm sure it's been talked about time and time again,.. but..
Does anyone have a recommended amount of additive (i.e. Marvel Mystery Oil) for
an A65-8? ..
I was looking on the Harry Fenton webpage for an answer, but didn't find it. I
now have several 'sorties' on my machine, running just 100LL, and am hearing from
some folk at my workplace that it's good for the motor to put some sort of
additive if I don't have the 80 octane available. I don't care much for the smell
of autogas, and do not wish to hoard it to the airport, so I prefer to just
run the 100LL w/an additive..thx in advance
Larry (KLNC)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370438#370438
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/n2308c_472.jpg
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Real world gross wt/useful load |
Rob - I've got the Piet you're talking about building. I'm the manufacturer so
I get to set the gross weight: 1200 lbs. You can set yours wherever you want.
I suspect that there are lots of Piets that have flown successfully and frequently
at more than 1200 lbs, though I'm not recommending that.
My empty weight is 760 giving a useful load of 440. The one thing I truly wish
I had is more fuel. It's got the stock tank. Not enough. I need 3 more gallons.
The plane flies quite well at gross and flies enthusiastically with just me. Bill's
right about the physical constraints of the front seat limiting you more
than the passenger weight.
Jack has flown more Piets than anyone I know of. He's very enthusiastic about
the simple, to-the-plans, short fuselage Hoffman aircraft. Plus he's an experienced
tail-dragger pilot and he's flown his own Piet a bunch and is very frank
about what he'd do different on his next Piet. Listen to the people who have
built successfully and fly a bunch.
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/San Marcos, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370439#370439
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| Subject: | Re: Lightweight vs medium dacron.chiffon is nice too |
I know you personally, John, and that was just disturbing. And you know I am not
easily disturbed:).
do not archive
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/San Marcos, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370441#370441
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| Subject: | Re: 100LL Additive |
I sometimes add mmo to my fuel. Usually 2 ounces per 5 gal. There have been a
few articles about the questionable benefits but lots of the old hands recommend
it
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 10, 2012, at 9:55 AM, "TriScout" <apfelcyber@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Hello all..
>
> I'm sure it's been talked about time and time again,.. but..
>
> Does anyone have a recommended amount of additive (i.e. Marvel Mystery Oil) for
an A65-8? ..
>
> I was looking on the Harry Fenton webpage for an answer, but didn't find it.
I now have several 'sorties' on my machine, running just 100LL, and am hearing
from some folk at my workplace that it's good for the motor to put some sort
of additive if I don't have the 80 octane available. I don't care much for the
smell of autogas, and do not wish to hoard it to the airport, so I prefer to
just run the 100LL w/an additive..thx in advance
>
> Larry (KLNC)
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370438#370438
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/n2308c_472.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 100LL Additive |
I second Ben's statement.
Dan
On 04/10/2012 09:15 AM, Ben Charvet wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ben Charvet<bencharvet@gmail.com>
>
> I sometimes add mmo to my fuel. Usually 2 ounces per 5 gal. There have been
a few articles about the questionable benefits but lots of the old hands recommend
it
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 10, 2012, at 9:55 AM, "TriScout"<apfelcyber@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "TriScout"<apfelcyber@yahoo.com>
>>
>> Hello all..
>>
>> I'm sure it's been talked about time and time again,.. but..
>>
>> Does anyone have a recommended amount of additive (i.e. Marvel Mystery Oil)
for an A65-8? ..
>>
>> I was looking on the Harry Fenton webpage for an answer, but didn't find it.
I now have several 'sorties' on my machine, running just 100LL, and am hearing
from some folk at my workplace that it's good for the motor to put some sort
of additive if I don't have the 80 octane available. I don't care much for the
smell of autogas, and do not wish to hoard it to the airport, so I prefer to
just run the 100LL w/an additive..thx in advance
>>
>> Larry (KLNC)
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 100LL Additive |
TCP has been used to prevent lead fouling for years. Here is a link to the maker.
http://www.alcorinc.com/index.php/products/tcp-fuel-additive-qt/
I have never used it. I put nothing in my 100LL When I fly with 100LL. I make sure
I run as lean as is reasonable and run the engine up before flight and before
shutdown to deal with lead on the plugs. I do this on my Early Vtail Bonanza
E-185 (just a really big 6 jug continental) and did it on my O-200 Cessna.
I run Autofuel in one tank and 100LL in the other. Takeoff and land on 100LL
and cruise on Autofuel.
Flying my buddies 65 HP Aeronca Champ, we try to run Autofuel. I get mid or higher
grade, I have had problems with knock using the lower octane regular. (Note
OCTANE ratings for the old 80 octane avgas and for unleaded autofuel use a different
octane rating system and autofuel has much looser standards than Aviation
standards.
I have used Marvel when I run Autogas according to the directions on the can, not
every time, but most of the time. Marvel is really nothing but a light weight
oil with some solvent and perfume. As for me, I believe.
Note Autofuel is not near as stable as 100LL. 100LL is good for a couple of years
in storage if not contaminated. Autogas can go bad (begin to separate) in as
little as 3 months. Autogas can have many different formulas. When in doubt,
I pump the autogas into my car or lawnmower.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
----- Original Message -----
From: TriScout <apfelcyber@yahoo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 100LL Additive
>
> Hello all..
>
> I'm sure it's been talked about time and time again,.. but..
>
> Does anyone have a recommended amount of additive (i.e. Marvel Mystery Oil) for
an A65-8? ..
>
> I was looking on the Harry Fenton webpage for an answer, but didn't find it.
I now have several 'sorties' on my machine, running just 100LL,
> and am hearing from some folk at my workplace that it's good for
> the motor to put some sort of additive if I don't have the 80
> octane available. I don't care much for the smell of autogas, and
> do not wish to hoard it to the airport, so I prefer to just run the
> 100LL w/an additive..thx in advance
>
> Larry (KLNC)
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370438#370438
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/n2308c_472.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 100LL Additive |
Small Continentals usually have the mixture control inoperative, either
missing or safetied full rich. I run the same amount of MMO
(inconsistently) in both my Cub (A-75) and 502Rocket (A-65) as Ben and
have had no issues with lead fouling in either. I don't run mogas much
(though we do have it on tap at the airport) as I find my idle
inconsistent and it stinks. I don't "loaf" my engines either. No reason
not to cruise at 2150 for the 65 and I usually cruise the A-75 at
2400-2450.
Although I do have to throttle back to let the speed challenged Piets
stay with me.
Must be my svelte figure.
-john-
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2424 American Lane
Madison, WI 53704
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
On Apr 10, 2012, at 9:42 AM, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB wrote:
<steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil>
>
> TCP has been used to prevent lead fouling for years. Here is a link to
the maker.
>
> http://www.alcorinc.com/index.php/products/tcp-fuel-additive-qt/
>
> I have never used it. I put nothing in my 100LL When I fly with 100LL.
I make sure I run as lean as is reasonable and run the engine up before
flight and before shutdown to deal with lead on the plugs. I do this on
my Early Vtail Bonanza E-185 (just a really big 6 jug continental) and
did it on my O-200 Cessna. I run Autofuel in one tank and 100LL in the
other. Takeoff and land on 100LL and cruise on Autofuel.
>
> Flying my buddies 65 HP Aeronca Champ, we try to run Autofuel. I get
mid or higher grade, I have had problems with knock using the lower
octane regular. (Note OCTANE ratings for the old 80 octane avgas and for
unleaded autofuel use a different octane rating system and autofuel has
much looser standards than Aviation standards.
>
> I have used Marvel when I run Autogas according to the directions on
the can, not every time, but most of the time. Marvel is really nothing
but a light weight oil with some solvent and perfume. As for me, I
believe.
>
> Note Autofuel is not near as stable as 100LL. 100LL is good for a
couple of years in storage if not contaminated. Autogas can go bad
(begin to separate) in as little as 3 months. Autogas can have many
different formulas. When in doubt, I pump the autogas into my car or
lawnmower.
>
> Blue Skies,
> Steve D
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: TriScout <apfelcyber@yahoo.com>
> Date: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 9:03
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: 100LL Additive
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
>
>>
>> Hello all..
>>
>> I'm sure it's been talked about time and time again,.. but..
>>
>> Does anyone have a recommended amount of additive (i.e. Marvel
Mystery Oil) for an A65-8? ..
>>
>> I was looking on the Harry Fenton webpage for an answer, but didn't
find it. I now have several 'sorties' on my machine, running just 100LL,
>> and am hearing from some folk at my workplace that it's good for
>> the motor to put some sort of additive if I don't have the 80
>> octane available. I don't care much for the smell of autogas, and
>> do not wish to hoard it to the airport, so I prefer to just run the
>> 100LL w/an additive..thx in advance
>>
>> Larry (KLNC)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370438#370438
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Attachments:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/n2308c_472.jpg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: 100LL Additive |
I have an old no-longer kitchen-worthy metal 1/4-cup measure that lives in the
baggage box of the Cub. One unit measure of MMO gets dumped into my tank when
I fill it with 100-LL. Normally a top-off for me is 6-8 gallons, so I suppose
I'm running cloe to the same proportions as Ben, maybe a nudge thinner.
FWIW, MMO is not an officially-approved additive, at least for standard-type. "Everybody's
doing it" has never been one of my acceptable reasons for anything,
but when I first started using it, a lot of people who'd been around airplanes
a lot longer than I were doing it regularly. I've never seen an accident report
attributable to MMO in avgas, so I'll worry about the beaurocrats and lawyers
if/when that time ever comes.
Jim Ash
-----Original Message-----
From: John Hofmann
Sent: Apr 10, 2012 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 100LL Additive
Small Continentals usually have the mixture control inoperative, either missing
or safetied full rich. I run the same amount of MMO (inconsistently) in both
my Cub (A-75) and 502Rocket (A-65) as Ben and have had no issues with lead fouling
in either. I don't run mogas much (though we do have it on tap at the airport)
as I find my idle inconsistent and it stinks. I don't "loaf" my engines
either. No reason not to cruise at 2150 for the 65 and I usually cruise the A-75
at 2400-2450.
Although I do have to throttle back to let the speed challenged Piets stay with
me.
Must be my svelte figure.
-john-
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2424 American Lane
Madison, WI 53704
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
On Apr 10, 2012, at 9:42 AM, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB wrote:
TCP has been used to prevent lead fouling for years. Here is a link to the maker.
http://www.alcorinc.com/index.php/products/tcp-fuel-additive-qt/
I have never used it. I put nothing in my 100LL When I fly with 100LL. I make sure
I run as lean as is reasonable and run the engine up before flight and before
shutdown to deal with lead on the plugs. I do this on my Early Vtail Bonanza
E-185 (just a really big 6 jug continental) and did it on my O-200 Cessna.
I run Autofuel in one tank and 100LL in the other. Takeoff and land on 100LL
and cruise on Autofuel.
Flying my buddies 65 HP Aeronca Champ, we try to run Autofuel. I get mid or higher
grade, I have had problems with knock using the lower octane regular. (Note
OCTANE ratings for the old 80 octane avgas and for unleaded autofuel use a different
octane rating system and autofuel has much looser standards than Aviation
standards.
I have used Marvel when I run Autogas according to the directions on the can, not
every time, but most of the time. Marvel is really nothing but a light weight
oil with some solvent and perfume. As for me, I believe.
Note Autofuel is not near as stable as 100LL. 100LL is good for a couple of years
in storage if not contaminated. Autogas can go bad (begin to separate) in as
little as 3 months. Autogas can have many different formulas. When in doubt,
I pump the autogas into my car or lawnmower.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
----- Original Message -----
From: TriScout <apfelcyber@yahoo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 100LL Additive
Hello all..
I'm sure it's been talked about time and time again,.. but..
Does anyone have a recommended amount of additive (i.e. Marvel Mystery Oil) for
an A65-8? ..
I was looking on the Harry Fenton webpage for an answer, but didn't find it. I
now have several 'sorties' on my machine, running just 100LL,
and am hearing from some folk at my workplace that it's good for
the motor to put some sort of additive if I don't have the 80
octane available. I don't care much for the smell of autogas, and
do not wish to hoard it to the airport, so I prefer to just run the
100LL w/an additive..thx in advance
Larry (KLNC)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370438#370438
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/n2308c_472.jpg
<BLOCKQUOTE &nbs -->="=======================<br"
&n="======================
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Real world weight/useful load |
Rob, I guess I'd have to second what Jack Plillips wrote, and i preface
what I'm going to say by pointing out that Jack's Piet is one of the nicest
looking, and most beautifully crafted that you'll see.
My Piet was built using pretty much all the suggestions he gave. Mine is
short fuselage with the split axle gear, 5.00X5 Cleveland wheels and brakes,
no added equipment such as radios or batteries, finished with Polytone,
which is less shiny than the Polyurethanes but certainly attractive. Like
Jack, I have the Continental A-65. My empty weight is 634 lbs, or was when the
weight and balance were done last year. I'm guessing it's a few pounds
heavier now because I reworked the bungee shock struts and now have die spring
struts. Those springs are heavier than the bungee cords.
The only thing I didn't do was to use the lighter weight fabric.
Matt Paxton
NX629ML
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Real world weight/useful load |
If not already mentioned, the steel tube fuselage, I believe is lighter the
n the all wood fuselage.- You may also choose to use aluminum wing and ca
bane struts in place of steel.
Michael Perez
=0APietenpol HINT Videos
=0AKaretaker Aero
=0Awww.karetakeraero.com
=0A
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Lightweight vs medium dacron.chiffon is nice too |
kevinpurtee wrote:
> I know you personally, John, and that was just disturbing. And you know I am
not easily disturbed:).
>
> do not archive
And that is coming from a Debutante!
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370457#370457
Message 12
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| Subject: | Marvel mystery oil |
I am going to give a word of caution on MMO. When adding it to gas if
you choose to, add it to a small amount of gas and shake up the can very
well. I have been told by a couple of older men from my EAA chapter
about a couple of crashes of J-3's using MMO.
The cause of the crashes was the MMO going directely to the gascolater
and not alowing fuel to get thru.
Dick N.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Real world weight/useful load |
Good stuff. Thanks all.
Rob
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370459#370459
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| Subject: | Re: Marvel mystery oil |
Hard to believe that. Did it gel in the gas?
--------
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370462#370462
Message 15
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Somebody help me out here... I'm just not seeing the purpose.
Why are the holes drilled 1/8" off center?
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370465#370465
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/hingelugs_113.jpg
Message 16
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That's an easy one, Mark.
The holes are drilled 1/8" off center because that's what the plans show.
I thought you would have known that by now.
Actually, I assume that the eccentricity would be called for to provide a bit of
clearance. Those lugs get ground flat on one side, as required, for alignment.
At assembly, the gear is held together with 5/16" bolts. If the holes were
drilled on center, it would probably be a bit snug to get a wrench over the bolt/nut.
Bill C.
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370467#370467
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Marvel mystery oil |
No , it sat there and didnt mix. Try it, I did, it sits there on the bottom
and wont mix.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 2:05 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Marvel mystery oil
>
> Hard to believe that. Did it gel in the gas?
>
> --------
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370462#370462
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Marvel mystery oil |
I always put it in before filling, so the filling action would mix it in. Like
you do with dry gas, for those fortunate enough to live in a climate where they
know what that even is.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
>From: Dick N <horzpool@goldengate.net>
>Sent: Apr 10, 2012 6:42 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Marvel mystery oil
>
>
>No , it sat there and didnt mix. Try it, I did, it sits there on the bottom
>and wont mix.
>Dick N.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP@gmail.com>
>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 2:05 PM
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Marvel mystery oil
>
>
>>
>> Hard to believe that. Did it gel in the gas?
>>
>> --------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370462#370462
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Marvel mystery oil |
The Marvel Mystery Oil *will* settle to the bottom of the tank if you
pour it indirectly. I always add it to my 5 gal jug of ethanol free
mogas. I sumped the tank on my old Baby Ace once after adding MMO and
the sample smelled like MMO.
Ben
On 4/10/2012 2:20 PM, Dick N wrote:
> I am going to give a word of caution on MMO. When adding it to gas if
> you choose to, add it to a small amount of gas and shake up the can
> very well. I have been told by a couple of older men from my EAA
> chapter about a couple of crashes of J-3's using MMO.
> The cause of the crashes was the MMO going directely to the gascolater
> and not alowing fuel to get thru.
> Dick N.
> *
>
>
> *
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
Message 20
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| Subject: | Question for GN-1 drivers |
Could you tell me where your engine thrust line is with respect to the top of the
top longeron? I'm in the process of building my engine mount and I can't find
it referenced in either the "new" or the original plans.
Thanks,
John Franklin
Prairie Aire 4TA0
GN-1 / Corvair
________________________________________
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Marvel mystery oil |
I've never used MMO in aircraft fuel but have used it in automobile
fuel. In an auto, I just poured the MMO into the tank and then added 10
gallons of fuel. A fried of mine (an aircraft mechanic) says he puts
MMO in the fuel of every reciprocating engine he uses at a rate of one
small can of MMO to 10 gallons of gasoline. C
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick N
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 2:20 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Marvel mystery oil
I am going to give a word of caution on MMO. When adding it to gas if
you choose to, add it to a small amount of gas and shake up the can very
well. I have been told by a couple of older men from my EAA chapter
about a couple of crashes of J-3's using MMO.
The cause of the crashes was the MMO going directely to the gascolater
and not alowing fuel to get thru.
Dick N.
Message 22
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| Subject: | update on NX53WE |
We finished the painting and will start putting the gear on today. We
ordered all new bolts and nuts for everything so all will pass
inspection and look good. We started august 2010 so our progress has
been good.I figured about 2200 hours so far,(I am retired) It is yellow
and a medium blue from stewart system,expensive but it looks good with a
nice shine.The wheels are 21 inch all stainless steel with ash gear and
I fiberglassed the gear so it looks great. I will send pictures when we
progress a little more. It is starting to get exciting now. Bob
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