---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 04/10/12: 22 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:56 AM - 100LL Additive (TriScout) 2. 06:59 AM - Re: Real world gross wt/useful load (kevinpurtee) 3. 07:09 AM - Re: Lightweight vs medium dacron.chiffon is nice too (kevinpurtee) 4. 07:15 AM - Re: 100LL Additive (Ben Charvet) 5. 07:37 AM - Re: 100LL Additive (Dan Yocum) 6. 07:43 AM - Re: 100LL Additive (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB) 7. 08:04 AM - Re: 100LL Additive (John Hofmann) 8. 08:25 AM - Re: 100LL Additive (Jim Ash) 9. 10:01 AM - Re: Real world weight/useful load (Woodflier@aol.com) 10. 10:54 AM - Re: Re: Real world weight/useful load (Michael Perez) 11. 10:58 AM - Re: Lightweight vs medium dacron.chiffon is nice too (K5YAC) 12. 11:20 AM - Marvel mystery oil (Dick N) 13. 11:21 AM - Re: Real world weight/useful load (Skagit) 14. 12:06 PM - Re: Marvel mystery oil (womenfly2) 15. 01:31 PM - Hinge Lugs (K5YAC) 16. 02:05 PM - Re: Hinge Lugs (Bill Church) 17. 03:53 PM - Re: Re: Marvel mystery oil (Dick N) 18. 04:21 PM - Re: Re: Marvel mystery oil (Jim Ash) 19. 05:12 PM - Re: Marvel mystery oil (Ben Charvet) 20. 05:59 PM - Question for GN-1 drivers (John Franklin) 21. 06:03 PM - Re: Marvel mystery oil (C N Campbell) 22. 06:57 PM - update on NX53WE (Bob edson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:56:09 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: 100LL Additive From: "TriScout" Hello all.. I'm sure it's been talked about time and time again,.. but.. Does anyone have a recommended amount of additive (i.e. Marvel Mystery Oil) for an A65-8? .. I was looking on the Harry Fenton webpage for an answer, but didn't find it. I now have several 'sorties' on my machine, running just 100LL, and am hearing from some folk at my workplace that it's good for the motor to put some sort of additive if I don't have the 80 octane available. I don't care much for the smell of autogas, and do not wish to hoard it to the airport, so I prefer to just run the 100LL w/an additive..thx in advance Larry (KLNC) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370438#370438 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/n2308c_472.jpg ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:59:31 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Real world gross wt/useful load From: "kevinpurtee" Rob - I've got the Piet you're talking about building. I'm the manufacturer so I get to set the gross weight: 1200 lbs. You can set yours wherever you want. I suspect that there are lots of Piets that have flown successfully and frequently at more than 1200 lbs, though I'm not recommending that. My empty weight is 760 giving a useful load of 440. The one thing I truly wish I had is more fuel. It's got the stock tank. Not enough. I need 3 more gallons. The plane flies quite well at gross and flies enthusiastically with just me. Bill's right about the physical constraints of the front seat limiting you more than the passenger weight. Jack has flown more Piets than anyone I know of. He's very enthusiastic about the simple, to-the-plans, short fuselage Hoffman aircraft. Plus he's an experienced tail-dragger pilot and he's flown his own Piet a bunch and is very frank about what he'd do different on his next Piet. Listen to the people who have built successfully and fly a bunch. -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/San Marcos, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370439#370439 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:09:55 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Lightweight vs medium dacron.chiffon is nice too From: "kevinpurtee" I know you personally, John, and that was just disturbing. And you know I am not easily disturbed:). do not archive -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/San Marcos, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370441#370441 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:15:41 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 100LL Additive From: Ben Charvet I sometimes add mmo to my fuel. Usually 2 ounces per 5 gal. There have been a few articles about the questionable benefits but lots of the old hands recommend it Sent from my iPhone On Apr 10, 2012, at 9:55 AM, "TriScout" wrote: > > Hello all.. > > I'm sure it's been talked about time and time again,.. but.. > > Does anyone have a recommended amount of additive (i.e. Marvel Mystery Oil) for an A65-8? .. > > I was looking on the Harry Fenton webpage for an answer, but didn't find it. I now have several 'sorties' on my machine, running just 100LL, and am hearing from some folk at my workplace that it's good for the motor to put some sort of additive if I don't have the 80 octane available. I don't care much for the smell of autogas, and do not wish to hoard it to the airport, so I prefer to just run the 100LL w/an additive..thx in advance > > Larry (KLNC) > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370438#370438 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/n2308c_472.jpg > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:37:45 AM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 100LL Additive I second Ben's statement. Dan On 04/10/2012 09:15 AM, Ben Charvet wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ben Charvet > > I sometimes add mmo to my fuel. Usually 2 ounces per 5 gal. There have been a few articles about the questionable benefits but lots of the old hands recommend it > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Apr 10, 2012, at 9:55 AM, "TriScout" wrote: > >> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "TriScout" >> >> Hello all.. >> >> I'm sure it's been talked about time and time again,.. but.. >> >> Does anyone have a recommended amount of additive (i.e. Marvel Mystery Oil) for an A65-8? .. >> >> I was looking on the Harry Fenton webpage for an answer, but didn't find it. I now have several 'sorties' on my machine, running just 100LL, and am hearing from some folk at my workplace that it's good for the motor to put some sort of additive if I don't have the 80 octane available. I don't care much for the smell of autogas, and do not wish to hoard it to the airport, so I prefer to just run the 100LL w/an additive..thx in advance >> >> Larry (KLNC) ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:43:32 AM PST US From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 100LL Additive TCP has been used to prevent lead fouling for years. Here is a link to the maker. http://www.alcorinc.com/index.php/products/tcp-fuel-additive-qt/ I have never used it. I put nothing in my 100LL When I fly with 100LL. I make sure I run as lean as is reasonable and run the engine up before flight and before shutdown to deal with lead on the plugs. I do this on my Early Vtail Bonanza E-185 (just a really big 6 jug continental) and did it on my O-200 Cessna. I run Autofuel in one tank and 100LL in the other. Takeoff and land on 100LL and cruise on Autofuel. Flying my buddies 65 HP Aeronca Champ, we try to run Autofuel. I get mid or higher grade, I have had problems with knock using the lower octane regular. (Note OCTANE ratings for the old 80 octane avgas and for unleaded autofuel use a different octane rating system and autofuel has much looser standards than Aviation standards. I have used Marvel when I run Autogas according to the directions on the can, not every time, but most of the time. Marvel is really nothing but a light weight oil with some solvent and perfume. As for me, I believe. Note Autofuel is not near as stable as 100LL. 100LL is good for a couple of years in storage if not contaminated. Autogas can go bad (begin to separate) in as little as 3 months. Autogas can have many different formulas. When in doubt, I pump the autogas into my car or lawnmower. Blue Skies, Steve D ----- Original Message ----- From: TriScout Subject: Pietenpol-List: 100LL Additive > > Hello all.. > > I'm sure it's been talked about time and time again,.. but.. > > Does anyone have a recommended amount of additive (i.e. Marvel Mystery Oil) for an A65-8? .. > > I was looking on the Harry Fenton webpage for an answer, but didn't find it. I now have several 'sorties' on my machine, running just 100LL, > and am hearing from some folk at my workplace that it's good for > the motor to put some sort of additive if I don't have the 80 > octane available. I don't care much for the smell of autogas, and > do not wish to hoard it to the airport, so I prefer to just run the > 100LL w/an additive..thx in advance > > Larry (KLNC) > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370438#370438 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/n2308c_472.jpg > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:04:39 AM PST US From: John Hofmann Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 100LL Additive Small Continentals usually have the mixture control inoperative, either missing or safetied full rich. I run the same amount of MMO (inconsistently) in both my Cub (A-75) and 502Rocket (A-65) as Ben and have had no issues with lead fouling in either. I don't run mogas much (though we do have it on tap at the airport) as I find my idle inconsistent and it stinks. I don't "loaf" my engines either. No reason not to cruise at 2150 for the 65 and I usually cruise the A-75 at 2400-2450. Although I do have to throttle back to let the speed challenged Piets stay with me. Must be my svelte figure. -john- John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2424 American Lane Madison, WI 53704 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com On Apr 10, 2012, at 9:42 AM, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB wrote: > > TCP has been used to prevent lead fouling for years. Here is a link to the maker. > > http://www.alcorinc.com/index.php/products/tcp-fuel-additive-qt/ > > I have never used it. I put nothing in my 100LL When I fly with 100LL. I make sure I run as lean as is reasonable and run the engine up before flight and before shutdown to deal with lead on the plugs. I do this on my Early Vtail Bonanza E-185 (just a really big 6 jug continental) and did it on my O-200 Cessna. I run Autofuel in one tank and 100LL in the other. Takeoff and land on 100LL and cruise on Autofuel. > > Flying my buddies 65 HP Aeronca Champ, we try to run Autofuel. I get mid or higher grade, I have had problems with knock using the lower octane regular. (Note OCTANE ratings for the old 80 octane avgas and for unleaded autofuel use a different octane rating system and autofuel has much looser standards than Aviation standards. > > I have used Marvel when I run Autogas according to the directions on the can, not every time, but most of the time. Marvel is really nothing but a light weight oil with some solvent and perfume. As for me, I believe. > > Note Autofuel is not near as stable as 100LL. 100LL is good for a couple of years in storage if not contaminated. Autogas can go bad (begin to separate) in as little as 3 months. Autogas can have many different formulas. When in doubt, I pump the autogas into my car or lawnmower. > > Blue Skies, > Steve D > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: TriScout > Date: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 9:03 > Subject: Pietenpol-List: 100LL Additive > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > >> >> Hello all.. >> >> I'm sure it's been talked about time and time again,.. but.. >> >> Does anyone have a recommended amount of additive (i.e. Marvel Mystery Oil) for an A65-8? .. >> >> I was looking on the Harry Fenton webpage for an answer, but didn't find it. I now have several 'sorties' on my machine, running just 100LL, >> and am hearing from some folk at my workplace that it's good for >> the motor to put some sort of additive if I don't have the 80 >> octane available. I don't care much for the smell of autogas, and >> do not wish to hoard it to the airport, so I prefer to just run the >> 100LL w/an additive..thx in advance >> >> Larry (KLNC) >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370438#370438 >> >> >> >> >> Attachments: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/n2308c_472.jpg >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:25:24 AM PST US From: Jim Ash Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 100LL Additive I have an old no-longer kitchen-worthy metal 1/4-cup measure that lives in the baggage box of the Cub. One unit measure of MMO gets dumped into my tank when I fill it with 100-LL. Normally a top-off for me is 6-8 gallons, so I suppose I'm running cloe to the same proportions as Ben, maybe a nudge thinner. FWIW, MMO is not an officially-approved additive, at least for standard-type. "Everybody's doing it" has never been one of my acceptable reasons for anything, but when I first started using it, a lot of people who'd been around airplanes a lot longer than I were doing it regularly. I've never seen an accident report attributable to MMO in avgas, so I'll worry about the beaurocrats and lawyers if/when that time ever comes. Jim Ash -----Original Message----- From: John Hofmann Sent: Apr 10, 2012 11:04 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 100LL Additive Small Continentals usually have the mixture control inoperative, either missing or safetied full rich. I run the same amount of MMO (inconsistently) in both my Cub (A-75) and 502Rocket (A-65) as Ben and have had no issues with lead fouling in either. I don't run mogas much (though we do have it on tap at the airport) as I find my idle inconsistent and it stinks. I don't "loaf" my engines either. No reason not to cruise at 2150 for the 65 and I usually cruise the A-75 at 2400-2450. Although I do have to throttle back to let the speed challenged Piets stay with me. Must be my svelte figure. -john- John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2424 American Lane Madison, WI 53704 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com On Apr 10, 2012, at 9:42 AM, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB wrote: TCP has been used to prevent lead fouling for years. Here is a link to the maker. http://www.alcorinc.com/index.php/products/tcp-fuel-additive-qt/ I have never used it. I put nothing in my 100LL When I fly with 100LL. I make sure I run as lean as is reasonable and run the engine up before flight and before shutdown to deal with lead on the plugs. I do this on my Early Vtail Bonanza E-185 (just a really big 6 jug continental) and did it on my O-200 Cessna. I run Autofuel in one tank and 100LL in the other. Takeoff and land on 100LL and cruise on Autofuel. Flying my buddies 65 HP Aeronca Champ, we try to run Autofuel. I get mid or higher grade, I have had problems with knock using the lower octane regular. (Note OCTANE ratings for the old 80 octane avgas and for unleaded autofuel use a different octane rating system and autofuel has much looser standards than Aviation standards. I have used Marvel when I run Autogas according to the directions on the can, not every time, but most of the time. Marvel is really nothing but a light weight oil with some solvent and perfume. As for me, I believe. Note Autofuel is not near as stable as 100LL. 100LL is good for a couple of years in storage if not contaminated. Autogas can go bad (begin to separate) in as little as 3 months. Autogas can have many different formulas. When in doubt, I pump the autogas into my car or lawnmower. Blue Skies, Steve D ----- Original Message ----- From: TriScout Subject: Pietenpol-List: 100LL Additive Hello all.. I'm sure it's been talked about time and time again,.. but.. Does anyone have a recommended amount of additive (i.e. Marvel Mystery Oil) for an A65-8? .. I was looking on the Harry Fenton webpage for an answer, but didn't find it. I now have several 'sorties' on my machine, running just 100LL, and am hearing from some folk at my workplace that it's good for the motor to put some sort of additive if I don't have the 80 octane available. I don't care much for the smell of autogas, and do not wish to hoard it to the airport, so I prefer to just run the 100LL w/an additive..thx in advance Larry (KLNC) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370438#370438 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/n2308c_472.jpg
="======================= kevinpurtee wrote: > I know you personally, John, and that was just disturbing. And you know I am not easily disturbed:). > > do not archive And that is coming from a Debutante! -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370457#370457 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:20:59 AM PST US From: "Dick N" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Marvel mystery oil I am going to give a word of caution on MMO. When adding it to gas if you choose to, add it to a small amount of gas and shake up the can very well. I have been told by a couple of older men from my EAA chapter about a couple of crashes of J-3's using MMO. The cause of the crashes was the MMO going directely to the gascolater and not alowing fuel to get thru. Dick N. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:21:03 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Real world weight/useful load From: "Skagit" Good stuff. Thanks all. Rob Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370459#370459 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:06:42 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Marvel mystery oil From: "womenfly2" Hard to believe that. Did it gel in the gas? -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370462#370462 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:31:35 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hinge Lugs From: "K5YAC" Somebody help me out here... I'm just not seeing the purpose. Why are the holes drilled 1/8" off center? -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370465#370465 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/hingelugs_113.jpg ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:05:24 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hinge Lugs From: "Bill Church" That's an easy one, Mark. The holes are drilled 1/8" off center because that's what the plans show. I thought you would have known that by now. Actually, I assume that the eccentricity would be called for to provide a bit of clearance. Those lugs get ground flat on one side, as required, for alignment. At assembly, the gear is held together with 5/16" bolts. If the holes were drilled on center, it would probably be a bit snug to get a wrench over the bolt/nut. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370467#370467 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:53:42 PM PST US From: "Dick N" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Marvel mystery oil No , it sat there and didnt mix. Try it, I did, it sits there on the bottom and wont mix. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "womenfly2" Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 2:05 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Marvel mystery oil > > Hard to believe that. Did it gel in the gas? > > -------- > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370462#370462 > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:21:52 PM PST US From: Jim Ash Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Marvel mystery oil I always put it in before filling, so the filling action would mix it in. Like you do with dry gas, for those fortunate enough to live in a climate where they know what that even is. Jim -----Original Message----- >From: Dick N >Sent: Apr 10, 2012 6:42 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Marvel mystery oil > > >No , it sat there and didnt mix. Try it, I did, it sits there on the bottom >and wont mix. >Dick N. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "womenfly2" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 2:05 PM >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Marvel mystery oil > > >> >> Hard to believe that. Did it gel in the gas? >> >> -------- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370462#370462 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:12:36 PM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Marvel mystery oil The Marvel Mystery Oil *will* settle to the bottom of the tank if you pour it indirectly. I always add it to my 5 gal jug of ethanol free mogas. I sumped the tank on my old Baby Ace once after adding MMO and the sample smelled like MMO. Ben On 4/10/2012 2:20 PM, Dick N wrote: > I am going to give a word of caution on MMO. When adding it to gas if > you choose to, add it to a small amount of gas and shake up the can > very well. I have been told by a couple of older men from my EAA > chapter about a couple of crashes of J-3's using MMO. > The cause of the crashes was the MMO going directely to the gascolater > and not alowing fuel to get thru. > Dick N. > * > > > * -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:59:06 PM PST US From: John Franklin Subject: Pietenpol-List: Question for GN-1 drivers Could you tell me where your engine thrust line is with respect to the top of the top longeron? I'm in the process of building my engine mount and I can't find it referenced in either the "new" or the original plans. Thanks, John Franklin Prairie Aire 4TA0 GN-1 / Corvair ________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:03:41 PM PST US From: "C N Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Marvel mystery oil I've never used MMO in aircraft fuel but have used it in automobile fuel. In an auto, I just poured the MMO into the tank and then added 10 gallons of fuel. A fried of mine (an aircraft mechanic) says he puts MMO in the fuel of every reciprocating engine he uses at a rate of one small can of MMO to 10 gallons of gasoline. C ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick N To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 2:20 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Marvel mystery oil I am going to give a word of caution on MMO. When adding it to gas if you choose to, add it to a small amount of gas and shake up the can very well. I have been told by a couple of older men from my EAA chapter about a couple of crashes of J-3's using MMO. The cause of the crashes was the MMO going directely to the gascolater and not alowing fuel to get thru. Dick N. ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:57:49 PM PST US From: "Bob edson" Subject: Pietenpol-List: update on NX53WE We finished the painting and will start putting the gear on today. We ordered all new bolts and nuts for everything so all will pass inspection and look good. We started august 2010 so our progress has been good.I figured about 2200 hours so far,(I am retired) It is yellow and a medium blue from stewart system,expensive but it looks good with a nice shine.The wheels are 21 inch all stainless steel with ash gear and I fiberglassed the gear so it looks great. I will send pictures when we progress a little more. It is starting to get exciting now. 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