---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 04/11/12: 30 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:21 AM - Re: Re: Marvel mystery oil (Ryan Mueller) 2. 04:06 AM - Re: Hinge Lugs (Jack) 3. 05:31 AM - Re: Marvel mystery oil (Jim Ash) 4. 05:47 AM - Re: update on NX53WE (Jack Phillips) 5. 05:50 AM - fuel additives (Douwe Blumberg) 6. 05:58 AM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 04/10/12 (Donald Lane) 7. 06:18 AM - Re: Marvel mystery oil (Amsafetyc) 8. 06:43 AM - Mags in classified (brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com) 9. 07:09 AM - Re: Question for GN-1 drivers (skipgadd@earthlink.net) 10. 07:10 AM - Re: Marvel mystery oil (Greg Chapman) 11. 07:18 AM - Re: Hinge Lugs (K5YAC) 12. 07:30 AM - Re: Hinge Lugs (kevinpurtee) 13. 08:33 AM - Re:Marvel mystery oil analytical methods of physical science and mixtures (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 14. 08:35 AM - Re: Question for GN-1 drivers (Don Emch) 15. 09:01 AM - Re: Re:Marvel mystery oil analytical methods of physical science and mixtures (gboothe5@comcast.net) 16. 09:36 AM - Re: Re:Marvel mystery oil analytical methods of physical science and mixtures (Greg Chapman) 17. 12:05 PM - Re: Re: Hinge Lugs (Jack@textors.com) 18. 01:35 PM - Steerable tailwheel or swivel? (Skagit) 19. 01:47 PM - Re: Marvel mystery oil (Ryan Mueller) 20. 01:59 PM - Steerable tailwheel or swivel? (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]) 21. 02:18 PM - old wives tales (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]) 22. 02:33 PM - Overkill... (aerocarjake) 23. 02:35 PM - Re: Marvel mystery oil (Steve Emo) 24. 02:47 PM - Re: Overkill... (gboothe5@comcast.net) 25. 02:53 PM - Tony Bingelis on fuel systems, lines, tanks (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]) 26. 04:37 PM - Re: Overkill... (helspersew@aol.com) 27. 04:40 PM - Re: 100LL Additive (TriScout) 28. 05:37 PM - Re: Overkill... (aerocarjake) 29. 07:55 PM - Re: Steerable tailwheel or swivel? (Skagit) 30. 07:55 PM - Re: Marvel mystery oil (Dick N) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:21:19 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Marvel mystery oil From: Ryan Mueller Never saw a problem when applied...E-2, J-2, J-3, Tri-Pacer, Bamboo Bomber, but then always applied at fueling, so the sloshing should take care of that... On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 5:42 PM, Dick N wrote: > > No , it sat there and didnt mix. Try it, I did, it sits there on the > bottom and wont mix. > Dick N. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "womenfly2" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 2:05 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Marvel mystery oil > > >> > >> >> Hard to believe that. Did it gel in the gas? >> >> -------- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/**viewtopic.php?p=370462#370462 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:06:50 AM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Hinge Lugs Mark, what Bill said... Jack Textor DSM NX1929T -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of K5YAC Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 3:31 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hinge Lugs Somebody help me out here... I'm just not seeing the purpose. Why are the holes drilled 1/8" off center? -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370465#370465 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/hingelugs_113.jpg ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:31:02 AM PST US From: Jim Ash Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Marvel mystery oil I suppose the question becomes the solubility of MMO in gasoline. Does it truly dissolve, or does it just break up in suspension then separate back out? I dunno. Jim -----Original Message----- From: Ben Charvet Sent: Apr 10, 2012 8:12 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Marvel mystery oil The Marvel Mystery Oil will settle to the bottom of the tank if you pour it indirectly. I always add it to my 5 gal jug of ethanol free mogas. I sumped the tank on my old Baby Ace once after adding MMO and the sample smelled like MMO. Ben On 4/10/2012 2:20 PM, Dick N wrote: I am going to give a word of caution on MMO. When adding it to gas if you choose to, add it to a small amount of gas and shake up the can very well. I have been told by a couple of older men from my EAA chapter about a couple of crashes of J-3's using MMO. The cause of the crashes was the MMO going directely to the gascolater and not alowing fuel to get thru. Dick N. -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:47:10 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: update on NX53WE Great news, Bob, Where are you located? Will we see this Pietenpol at Brodhead this year? Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob edson Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 9:56 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: update on NX53WE We finished the painting and will start putting the gear on today. We ordered all new bolts and nuts for everything so all will pass inspection and look good. We started august 2010 so our progress has been good.I figured about 2200 hours so far,(I am retired) It is yellow and a medium blue from stewart system,expensive but it looks good with a nice shine.The wheels are 21 inch all stainless steel with ash gear and I fiberglassed the gear so it looks great. I will send pictures when we progress a little more. It is starting to get exciting now. Bob ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:50:58 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuel additives Just to cloud the issue a bit. I know Lowell, who has many, many hours on many engines uses a small amount (don't remember the amount) of synthetic two cycle oil in his fuel and has had very good luck with it. Just passing on info, never tried it myself. Douwe ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:58:08 AM PST US From: "Donald Lane" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 04/10/12 > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:56:09 AM PST US > Subject: Pietenpol-List: 100LL Additive > From: "TriScout" > > > Hello all.. > > I'm sure it's been talked about time and time again,.. but.. > > Does anyone have a recommended amount of additive (i.e. Marvel Mystery > Oil) for > an A65-8? .. > > I was looking on the Harry Fenton webpage for an answer, but didn't find > it. I > now have several 'sorties' on my machine, running just 100LL, and am > hearing from > some folk at my workplace that it's good for the motor to put some sort of > additive if I don't have the 80 octane available. I don't care much for > the smell > of autogas, and do not wish to hoard it to the airport, so I prefer to > just > run the 100LL w/an additive..thx in advance > > Larry (KLNC) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370438#370438 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/n2308c_472.jpg > > > >> >> >> After pulling the head off and the valves out of my Ford A, because I had exhaust valves sticking, if I didn't run it at least once a week. I couldn't find any thing wrong, reassembled it and am now running 2 oz to 5 gal 100LL, and it runs fine???? I don't really believe in additives, but I'm sticking with it. Thanks for the tip, on mixing. I just dumped a 1/4 cup of MMO in a full 5 Gal can last night and thought it would mix itself riding in the pickup. I will split it into 2 cans and shake it up good. Don in Minnesott Beach NC> > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:18:05 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Marvel mystery oil From: Amsafetyc Certainly easy enough to find out by setting up an in home lab 3 clear glass (flint glass) jars with lids of the same capacity say 32 ounces. Establish a scale of 1 oz is = to a gallon fill each with 16 oz of fuel. Jar 1 add the mmo directly to the fuel in the recommended proportion with no mixing or agitation of any type screw the lid on and let stand undisturbed Jar 2 add the same amount of fuel and mmo and agitate vigorously cap and set next to jar 1 Jar 3 is your control same amount of fuel and no mmo cap and store next to jar 2 Let all 3 stand for upon placement on the shelf and without movement observe the jars making note of disbursement or non disbursement , color striations and locations in the jar top bottom and middle Next wait 1 hour and reexamine as in the first notation Re examine in 4 hours same methodology Reexamine in 24 hours same methodology Reexamine in 1 week same Methodology At the end of the experiment you should know if it is immediately soluble in gas without agitation and the crash data is suspect Agitation puts it into suspension that is permanent or temporary and how well the mixture remains in suspension or does it precipitate out and settle at the bottom Observe the control for any stray precipitates that may be present in the fuel Obviously this cam be made more sophisticated by using calibrated glass ware and accurate scales and specific gravity instrumentation This however is not rocket science but a simple experiment to identify how mmo acts in the fuel tank John Sent from my iPhone On Apr 11, 2012, at 8:29 AM, Jim Ash wrote: > > I suppose the question becomes the solubility of MMO in gasoline. Does it truly dissolve, or does it just break up in suspension then separate back out? I dunno. > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ben Charvet > Sent: Apr 10, 2012 8:12 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Marvel mystery oil > > The Marvel Mystery Oil will settle to the bottom of the tank if you pour it indirectly. I always add it to my 5 gal jug of ethanol free mogas. I sumped the tank on my old Baby Ace once after adding MMO and the sample smelled like MMO. > > Ben > On 4/10/2012 2:20 PM, Dick N wrote: > > > > I am going to give a word of caution on MMO. When adding it to gas if you choose to, add it to a small amount of gas and shake up the can very well. I have been told by a couple of older men from my EAA chapter about a couple of crashes of J-3's using MMO. > The cause of the crashes was the MMO going directely to the gascolater and not alowing fuel to get thru. > Dick N. > > > > > -- > Ben Charvet, PharmD > Staff Pharmacist > Parrish Medical center > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:43:48 AM PST US From: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mags in classified Saw these mags on our local classified.... Don't know anything about them but thought I would pass it on. Could be used for parts or possibly boat anchors. I have no affiliation with seller or the ad. http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad=19926356&cat=151&lpid=&se arch Brian SLC-UT ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:09:51 AM PST US From: "skipgadd@earthlink.net" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Question for GN-1 drivers John, The thrust line on Felix is even with the top longeron. I believe a stock J3 engine mount was used on my plane, this puts the engine mount flange about 7" forward of the fire wall. If I were building an engine mount for a GN1 that distance would be 11" to 13". That would help with W&B and make it alot easier to safty the oil screen. Skip > [Original Message] > From: John Franklin > To: Piet_List > Date: 4/10/2012 9:01:09 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Question for GN-1 drivers > > > Could you tell me where your engine thrust line is with respect to the top of the top longeron? I'm in the process of building my engine mount and I can't find it referenced in either the "new" or the original plans. > > Thanks, > John Franklin > Prairie Aire 4TA0 > GN-1 / Corvair > > ________________________________________ > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:10:13 AM PST US From: "Greg Chapman" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Marvel mystery oil I suggest one more test. Since it may not be a matter of suspension vs solution, you might also want to perform a strainer test at the end of the series to determine whether any precipitate is captured on a gascolator screen from jars 1 and 2. Greg Chapman -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Amsafetyc Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 8:18 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Marvel mystery oil Certainly easy enough to find out by setting up an in home lab 3 clear glass (flint glass) jars with lids of the same capacity say 32 ounces. Establish a scale of 1 oz is = to a gallon fill each with 16 oz of fuel. Jar 1 add the mmo directly to the fuel in the recommended proportion with no mixing or agitation of any type screw the lid on and let stand undisturbed Jar 2 add the same amount of fuel and mmo and agitate vigorously cap and set next to jar 1 Jar 3 is your control same amount of fuel and no mmo cap and store next to jar 2 Let all 3 stand for upon placement on the shelf and without movement observe the jars making note of disbursement or non disbursement , color striations and locations in the jar top bottom and middle Next wait 1 hour and reexamine as in the first notation Re examine in 4 hours same methodology Reexamine in 24 hours same methodology Reexamine in 1 week same Methodology At the end of the experiment you should know if it is immediately soluble in gas without agitation and the crash data is suspect Agitation puts it into suspension that is permanent or temporary and how well the mixture remains in suspension or does it precipitate out and settle at the bottom Observe the control for any stray precipitates that may be present in the fuel Obviously this cam be made more sophisticated by using calibrated glass ware and accurate scales and specific gravity instrumentation This however is not rocket science but a simple experiment to identify how mmo acts in the fuel tank John Sent from my iPhone On Apr 11, 2012, at 8:29 AM, Jim Ash wrote: > > I suppose the question becomes the solubility of MMO in gasoline. Does it truly dissolve, or does it just break up in suspension then separate back out? I dunno. > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ben Charvet > Sent: Apr 10, 2012 8:12 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Marvel mystery oil > > The Marvel Mystery Oil will settle to the bottom of the tank if you pour it indirectly. I always add it to my 5 gal jug of ethanol free mogas. I sumped the tank on my old Baby Ace once after adding MMO and the sample smelled like MMO. > > Ben > On 4/10/2012 2:20 PM, Dick N wrote: > > > > I am going to give a word of caution on MMO. When adding it to gas if you choose to, add it to a small amount of gas and shake up the can very well. I have been told by a couple of older men from my EAA chapter about a couple of crashes of J-3's using MMO. > The cause of the crashes was the MMO going directely to the gascolater and not alowing fuel to get thru. > Dick N. > > > > > -- > Ben Charvet, PharmD > Staff Pharmacist > Parrish Medical center > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:18:13 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hinge Lugs From: "K5YAC" Thanks guys... I also got a phone call from one of our experienced builders/fliers that explained it the same way. What I didn't realize, or must have overlooked is that the outer two are turned 180* to the inner lug... makes perfect sense now. Jack... your work is superb. Your photos are always very clear and the fitment and welding is as nice as I've ever seen. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370532#370532 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:30:01 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hinge Lugs From: "kevinpurtee" I've quit looking at Jack Textor's pictures 'cause they make me feel so inadequate.... do not archive -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/San Marcos, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370535#370535 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:33:07 AM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re:Marvel mystery oil analytical methods of physical science and mixtures easily enough done with a paint filter pre weight and post weight but not certain if anyone has a gram-matic enclosed or beam balance to be able to calculate the residue retained in the filter. Obviously the accuracy is a matter of available equipment its sensitivity and parameters of operation along with calibration information Juss sayin Not Rocket science, not even close: _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtKQpMoplYk_ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtKQpMoplYk) John ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:35:22 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Question for GN-1 drivers From: "Don Emch" Skip... Beautiful picture! I really need to get down there some time and check your place out. Don Emch NX899DE do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370543#370543 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:01:15 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re:Marvel mystery oil analytical methods of physical science and mixtures From: gboothe5@comcast.net WSdhbGwgYXJlIHRyeWluZyB0byB0YWtlIHRoZSAnbXlzdGVyeScgb3V0IG9mIE1hcnZlbCBNeXN0 ZXJ5IE9pbC4gV2h5PyBBcmUgd2UgYWxzbyB0byBkaXNjb3ZlciB0aGUgdHJ1dGggYmVoaW5kIFNh bnRhIENsYXVzLi4uRWFzdGVyIFJhYmJpdC4uLkxlcHJlY2hhdW5zPyBXaGVyZSBkb2VzIGl0IGVu ZD8NCg0KR2FyeSBmcm9tIENvb2wNCkRvIG5vdCBhcmNoaXZlLCBhbmQNCklnbm9yZSB0aGUgbG9u ZyB3aW5kZWQgZ29iYmxldHktZ29vayB0aGF0IGZvbGxvd3MgdGhpcyBlbWFpbC4uLkkgaGF2ZSBu byBjb250cm9sDQpTZW50IG9uIHRoZSBTcHJpbnSuIE5vdyBOZXR3b3JrIGZyb20gbXkgQmxhY2tC ZXJyea4NCg0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IEFNc2FmZXR5Q0Bhb2wu Y29tDQpTZW5kZXI6IG93bmVyLXBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0LXNlcnZlckBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tDQpE YXRlOiBXZWQsIDExIEFwciAyMDEyIDExOjMyOjI3IA0KVG86IDxwaWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdEBtYXRy b25pY3MuY29tPg0KUmVwbHktVG86IHBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb21TdWJqZWN0 OiBQaWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlzdDogUmU6TWFydmVsIG15c3Rlcnkgb2lsIGFuYWx5dGljYWwgbWV0aG9k cyBvZiBwaHlzaWNhbCBzY2llbmNlIGFuZCBtaXh0dXJlcw0KDQplYXNpbHkgZW5vdWdoIGRvbmUg d2l0aCBhIHBhaW50IGZpbHRlciBwcmUgd2VpZ2h0IGFuZCBwb3N0IHdlaWdodCBidXQgbm90ICAN CmNlcnRhaW4gaWYgYW55b25lIGhhcyBhIGdyYW0tbWF0aWMgZW5jbG9zZWQgb3IgYmVhbSBiYWxh bmNlIHRvIGJlIGFibGUgdG8gIA0KY2FsY3VsYXRlIHRoZSByZXNpZHVlIHJldGFpbmVkIGluIHRo ZSBmaWx0ZXIuIE9idmlvdXNseSB0aGUgYWNjdXJhY3kgaXMgYSANCm1hdHRlciAgb2YgYXZhaWxh YmxlIGVxdWlwbWVudCBpdHMgc2Vuc2l0aXZpdHkgYW5kIHBhcmFtZXRlcnMgb2Ygb3BlcmF0aW9u IA0KYWxvbmcgd2l0aCAgY2FsaWJyYXRpb24gaW5mb3JtYXRpb24NCiANCkp1c3Mgc2F5aW4NCiAN Ck5vdCBSb2NrZXQgc2NpZW5jZSwgbm90IGV2ZW4gY2xvc2U6IA0KX2h0dHA6Ly93d3cueW91dHVi ZS5jb20vd2F0Y2g/dj1VdEtRcE1vcGxZa18gKGh0dHA6Ly93d3cueW91dHViZS5jb20vd2F0Y2g/ dj1VdEtRcE1vcGxZaykgDQogDQpKb2huDQo ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:36:29 AM PST US From: "Greg Chapman" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re:Marvel mystery oil analytical methods of physical science and mixtures As far as I know, only one of those flies and that one doesn't have any valves or gascolators to worry about. Greg Chapman From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gboothe5@comcast.net Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 11:01 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re:Marvel mystery oil analytical methods of physical science and mixtures Y'all are trying to take the 'mystery' out of Marvel Mystery Oil. Why? Are we also to discover the truth behind Santa Claus...Easter Rabbit...Leprechauns? Where does it end? ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:05:25 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hinge Lugs From: "Jack@textors.com" Mark and Kevin, thanks for the kind words. You should see the 4130 in the t rash... Jack Textor Sent from my iPad On Apr 11, 2012, at 9:17 AM, "K5YAC" wrote: > > Thanks guys... I also got a phone call from one of our experienced builder s/fliers that explained it the same way. What I didn't realize, or must hav e overlooked is that the outer two are turned 180* to the inner lug... makes perfect sense now. > > Jack... your work is superb. Your photos are always very clear and the fi tment and welding is as nice as I've ever seen. > > -------- > Mark Chouinard > Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370532#370532 > > > > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > > >
________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:35:26 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steerable tailwheel or swivel? From: "Skagit" Moving down the list of design decisions... In the interest of saving weight, would it be feasible to use brake control for steering and forgo a steerable tailwheel? Or do the benefits of a steerable tailwheel outweigh the weight savings? (Outweigh the weight? There's a joke there somewhere, I just can't find it at the moment...) Thanks again, --Rob 8) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370555#370555 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:47:48 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Marvel mystery oil From: Ryan Mueller No offense, but that sounds like old wive's tales. Even if you pour it directly into the tank without adding the fuel, the act of taxiing to the runway and the vibration of the engine is going to cause agitation in the tank that should disperse the additive. And either way....MMO would have to sludge up pretty well to clog the input fitting on the gascolator....and if it didn't clog until it was in the gascolator, what would be so different about swirling around in the gascolator than in the tank? Just old guys telling stories for something to do.... Ryan On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Dick N wrote: > ** > I am going to give a word of caution on MMO. When adding it to gas if you > choose to, add it to a small amount of gas and shake up the can very well. > I have been told by a couple of older men from my EAA chapter about a > couple of crashes of J-3's using MMO. > The cause of the crashes was the MMO going directely to the gascolater and > not alowing fuel to get thru. > Dick N. > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:59:49 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steerable tailwheel or swivel? Rob, A fixed or steerable tailwheel are far better than a swiveling tailwheel. T he last thing you ever want to fly is a fully-swiveling tailwheel. You're not going to save any w eight with a steerable vs. swiveling tailwheel. If you're really looking to save weight use a ta ilskid as per the plans but that has its own set of limitations. To me a steerable tailwheel is the only way to go on a Pietenpol where you intend to fly out of paved strips. May I ask if you've flown any conventional gear aircraft yet Rob? Mike C. There are a few choices of tailwheels here to look at: http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_cat.php/subid=9051/index.htm l This is what I purchased and use on my Pietenpol. For some reason this tai lwheel came out of 'steerable' mode way too easily and nearly caused me to wreck my plane o n one of my first few landings when it kicked out of steerable mode into full-swivel mode. It is only supposed to kick out of steerable mode at very slow speeds when you apply full rudde r and or differential braking to pivot around one wheel in tight quarters or around gas pumps. To me the danger of this full-swivel option was so great that I took the th ing apart and saw how the mechanism worked and quickly ground out a detent for a spring-loade d locking pin so it would basically always and forever be just a totally steerable-only tailwhe el. After 450 flying hours during the last 14 years I've had no more issues wit h it and find it turns tightly enough for my wishes, even on narrow runways when I want to do a 18 0 degree turn. [cid:image005.jpg@01CD1804.684B6600] [cid:image006.jpg@01CD1804.684B6600] ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:18:36 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: old wives tales I have to agree with Ryan Mueller on the Marvel Mystery Oil stories as I've been using the stuff in my fuel and oil in A-65's in my old Champ and Piet since 1989 with no issues at all. You can't be adding gobs of the stuff but even if you did I'd have to beli eve it would still flow thru (even raw) a gascolator screen. The very best things we can do are drain, inspect, and remove and blow clea n our gascolator screens yearly on inspection and the little carb screen on the small Continentals. This screen is often overl ooked but it worth taking a look-see at especially if you see lots of crud in your gascolator screen. Water I think is the bigger culprit of any contamination with condensation on high humidity nights or parked overnight in a little rain shower. Gotta drain the thing before flying for sure and take a good look for water. Mike C. The carb thimble-type screen is located right under that hex nut on the rig ht side of the carb that is safety-wired. That screen is the last chance department for filtering fuel before it sees the bowl/float area. [cid:image003.jpg@01CD1807.04F05770] ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:33:17 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Overkill... From: "aerocarjake" Hello good Piet-ple, I guess anything worth doing is worth over-doing... My welder and I were a bit apprehensive about steel-on-steel for the control torque tube, so i machined up a couple bronze bushings that snug fit into the tube. (I will be drilling a hole through the tube and bushing for a 3/16 bolt that will hold the bushing in place) You can see how the bearing surface will now be bronze-on-steel instead of steel-on-steel. Yes I know, it's overkill and this change adds a few ounces, but corrosion should never be an issue and it's fun....! Having a great time with the project in general and little details like this in particular...! High regards.......! -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370561#370561 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/bushing_2_196.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/bushing_1_550.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/a_bushings_414.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/_lathe_689.jpg ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:35:48 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Marvel mystery oil From: Steve Emo It has been said one test is worth 1000 opinions. I have been using MMO for over a year plus and no problem. I used it to try to reduce the carbon bui ld up, not anything to do with lead fouling. I like the test recommendation . I will also add a word of caution about nonAV gas. It has a max octane r ating life of 6 months. MMO does nothing to extend auto gas life. I would a sk if the J3 were using autofuel. Steve On Apr 11, 2012, at 4:47 PM, Ryan Mueller wrote: > No offense, but that sounds like old wive's tales. Even if you pour it dir ectly into the tank without adding the fuel, the act of taxiing to the runwa y and the vibration of the engine is going to cause agitation in the tank th at should disperse the additive. And either way....MMO would have to sludge u p pretty well to clog the input fitting on the gascolator....and if it didn' t clog until it was in the gascolator, what would be so different about swir ling around in the gascolator than in the tank? Just old guys telling storie s for something to do.... > > Ryan > > On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Dick N wrote: > I am going to give a word of caution on MMO. When adding it to gas if you choose to, add it to a small amount of gas and shake up the can very well. I have been told by a couple of older men from my EAA chapter about a coupl e of crashes of J-3's using MMO. > The cause of the crashes was the MMO going directely to the gascolater and not alowing fuel to get thru. > Dick N. > > > " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:47:55 PM PST US From: gboothe5@comcast.net Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Overkill... Jake...Jake...Jake....Be prepared for a keyboard lashing from the Pietenpol Police! All you needed was a small "oiling hole" in the top of the bushing. 80+ years and no reported 'corrosion' in the per-plans projects. Gary from Cool ----- Original Message ----- From: "aerocarjake" Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 2:33:03 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Overkill... Hello good Piet-ple, I guess anything worth doing is worth over-doing... My welder and I were a bit apprehensive about steel-on-steel for the control torque tube, so i machined up a couple bronze bushings that snug fit into the tube. (I will be drilling a hole through the tube and bushing for a 3/16 bolt that will hold the bushing in place) You can see how the bearing surface will now be bronze-on-steel instead of steel-on-steel. Yes I know, it's overkill and this change adds a few ounces, but corrosion should never be an issue and it's fun....! Having a great time with the project in general and little details like this in particular...! High regards.......! -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370561#370561 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/bushing_2_196.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/bushing_1_550.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/a_bushings_414.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/_lathe_689.jpg ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 02:53:07 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tony Bingelis on fuel systems, lines, tanks U28gbXVjaCBzYWZldHkgaXMgYXQgc3Rha2Ugd2l0aCBvdXIgZnVlbCBzeXN0ZW1zIGFuZCBob3cg d2UgcHV0IHRoZW0gdG9nZXRoZXIgYW5kIHdoYXQgd2UgcHV0IHRoZW0NCnRvZ2V0aGVyIHdpdGgu DQoNCkkganVzdCBsb3ZlIHRoZSBUb255IEJpbmdlbGlzIGJvb2sgc2VyaWVzIGZvciBndWlkaW5n IHVzIHRocnUgdGhlIGJ1aWxkaW5nIHByb2Nlc3MuICAgIChoYXZlIEkgbWVudGlvbmVkIGhpcyBi b29rcyBiZWZvcmU/IOKYuik/DQoNClN0ZXZlIEVtbyBtYWtlcyBhIGdvb2QgcG9pbnQgYWJvdXQg YXV0byBmdWVsLiAgTmV2ZXIgdG91Y2ggdGhlIHN0dWZmIGJ1dCBJ4oCZbSBzdXJlIHRoZSBDb3J2 YWlyIGFuZCBGb3JkIG93bmVycyBkby4NCg0KU28gbWFueSBnb29kIHRoaW5ncyBhYm91dCBmdWVs IHN5c3RlbXMgaW4gdGhlIEJpbmdlbGlzIGJvb2tzLiAgICBXaGF0IG1hdGVyaWFscyBhcmUgY29t cGF0aWJsZSwgc2xvc2hpbmcsIHNlYWxpbmcgY29tcG91bmRzDQphbmQgdGhlIGRhbmdlcnMgb2Yg dGhvc2UgZ2V0dGluZyBnb29leSBpZiB0aGV5IHNlZSBhIHNvbHZlbnQgbGlrZSBhbGNvaG9sIHRo ZXkgZG9u4oCZdCBsaWtlLg0KDQpJIHJlYWxseSBsaWtlZCB0aGUgdGVzdCBUb255IGdpdmVzIGZv ciBmaW5kaW5nIG91dCBpZiB5b3VyIGdyYXZpdHkgZmxvdyBmdWVsIGZsb3cgaXMgYWRlcXVhdGUg YXQgdGhlIGNhcmIgb3Igbm90IGFuZCBob3cgaGUgc2hvd3MNCmhvdyB5b3UgY2FuIGRldGVybWlu ZSB3aGF0IGZ1ZWwgaXMgdXNhYmxlIGFuZCB3aGF0IGlzbuKAmXQuICAobGlrZSB0aGUgdW51c2Fi bGUgaXMgd2hlbiB0aGUgZmxvdyBwZXRlcnMgb3V0IHRvIGxlc3MgdGhhbiB5b3VyDQpIUCAoaGXi gJlzIGdvdCBhIGNoYXJ0L3RhYmxlL2Zvcm11bGEgYXMgSSByZWNhbGwpIHJlcXVpcmVzIGF0IGZ1 bGwgcG93ZXIgaW4gYSBjbGltYiBhdHRpdHVkZS4gICBHcmVhdCBzdHVmZiBpbiBoaXMgZnVlbCBz eXN0ZW0gc2VjdGlvbi4NCg0KU2F3IGEgYmlwbGFuZSBhdCBvdXIgYWlycG9ydCAoQWNyb3Nwb3J0 IElJKSB0aGF0IGFsbW9zdCBjcmFzaGVkLiAgVGhlIGVuZ2luZSBrZXB0IHNwdXR0ZXJpbmcuICBX aGVuIHRoZXkgdG9yZSB0aGUgZnVlbCB0YW5rDQpvdXQgdGhlIGZpbmdlciBzdHJhaW5lciBpbiB0 aGUgdGFuayBvdXRsZXQgd2FzIGNvdmVyZWQgKGV4Y2VwdCB0aGUgdG9wIMK84oCdISkgIHdpdGgg Z29vZXkgYmxhY2sgbGVhayBzbG9zaGluZyBjb21wb3VuZCB0aGF0IHdhcw0KYWxsIG92ZXIgdGhl IHBsYWNlIGJlY2F1c2Ugb2YgdGhlIGFsY29ob2wgaW4gdGhlICBtb2dhcyBoZSB3YXMgdXNpbmcg d2FzIHNvZnRlbmluZyBpdC4NCg0KU2Nhcnkgc3R1ZmYuDQoNCk1pa2UgQy4NCg0KaHR0cDovL3d3 dy5zaG9wZWFhLmNvbS9iaW5nZWxpc3NldG9mNC5hc3B4DQoNCkJlc3QgOTAgYnVja3MgeW914oCZ bGwgZXZlciBzcGVuZCBvbiBidWlsZGluZyB5b3VyIFBpZXRlbnBvbC4gICAgKFBhaWQgZm9yIGJ5 IHRoZSBNaWNoYWVsIEN1eSBmb3IgRG9nIENhdGNoZXIgQ29tbWl0dGVlKQ0KW2NpZDppbWFnZTAw MS5qcGdAMDFDRDE4MEIuRTA2RUQ4NDBdICAgICAgIFtjaWQ6aW1hZ2UwMDQuanBnQDAxQ0QxODBC LkU0Mjk0ODMwXQ0KDQoNCg0K ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 04:37:45 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Overkill... From: helspersew@aol.com A "few onces" here, a "few ounces" there,......pretty soon it all adds up t o real weight!! To quote an eloquent charactor from a famous, timeless mot ion picture movie,... "We don'need no stink'n oiling hole"! I don't believe my plans show an "oiling hole" there. Just a one-time greasing should take care of it. Stick to the plans!!! Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: gboothe5 Sent: Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:48 pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Overkill... Jake...Jake...Jake....Be prepared for a keyboard lashing from the Pietenpol Police! All you needed was a small "oiling hole" in the top of the bushing . 80+ years and no reported 'corrosion' in the per-plans projects. Gary from Cool From: "aerocarjake" Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 2:33:03 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Overkill... Hello good Piet-ple, I guess anything worth doing is worth over-doing... My welder and I were a bit apprehensive about steel-on-steel for the contro l torque tube, so i machined up a couple bronze bushings that snug fit into the tube. (I will be drilling a hole through the tube and bushing for a 3/ 16 bolt that will hold the bushing in place) You can see how the bearing su rface will now be bronze-on-steel instead of steel-on-steel. Yes I know, it's overkill and this change adds a few ounces, but corrosion should never be an issue and it's fun....! Having a great time with the project in general and little details like thi s in particular...! High regards.......! -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370561#370561 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/bushing_2_196.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/bushing_1_550.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/a_bushings_414.jpg http://forums.matronics.co== -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 04:40:40 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: 100LL Additive From: "TriScout" Thanks Guys..for all the discussion. I'm liking the TCP treatment option that Steve D. linked. It's shows FAA approved on the label, which kinda takes the guesswork out of it. I'm thinking even if I put about half the recommended additive in w/100LL, it's gotta be better than not putting anything in. Not that I've had any problems w/out additive so far, but the A65 was originally meant for 80 Octain.. Larry Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370572#370572 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 05:37:13 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Overkill... From: "aerocarjake" Thanks... I plan to add an OUNCE sixteen times an then take a POUNDing on this forum - ha!! Actually very aware of weight - making conscious choices along the way to save in most places and only add when I make a conscious choice to do so.... -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370576#370576 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 07:55:50 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steerable tailwheel or swivel? From: "Skagit" Got it...steerable. That looks like a nice setup. I've done a few hours in a Decathalon, but it was years ago. Never finished my tailwheel endorsement. Stay tuned for more rookie questions... Rob Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370583#370583 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 07:55:57 PM PST US From: "Dick N" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Marvel mystery oil Ryan Like has been said before, You fly your and I will fly mine. Best luck to you. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan Mueller To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 3:47 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Marvel mystery oil No offense, but that sounds like old wive's tales. Even if you pour it directly into the tank without adding the fuel, the act of taxiing to the runway and the vibration of the engine is going to cause agitation in the tank that should disperse the additive. And either way....MMO would have to sludge up pretty well to clog the input fitting on the gascolator....and if it didn't clog until it was in the gascolator, what would be so different about swirling around in the gascolator than in the tank? Just old guys telling stories for something to do.... Ryan On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Dick N wrote: I am going to give a word of caution on MMO. When adding it to gas if you choose to, add it to a small amount of gas and shake up the can very well. I have been told by a couple of older men from my EAA chapter about a couple of crashes of J-3's using MMO. The cause of the crashes was the MMO going directely to the gascolater and not alowing fuel to get thru. Dick N. 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