Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:50 AM - Re: Re: considering a piet build (Jack)
2. 04:23 AM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 46 Msgs - 04/16/12 (Sutton, Mark)
3. 06:20 AM - Re: Re: considering a piet build (airlion)
4. 06:21 AM - Re: considering a piet build (jarheadpilot82)
5. 06:28 AM - Re: Cost of inspections (ldmill)
6. 06:31 AM - 787 differences training (Lawrence Williams)
7. 06:45 AM - Re: 787 differences training (helspersew@aol.com)
8. 06:49 AM - Inspection rings (giacummo)
9. 07:06 AM - Re: Inspection rings (Doug Dever)
10. 08:01 AM - Re: Inspection rings (Mario Giacummo)
11. 09:26 AM - Re: Re: considering a piet build (Dick N)
12. 09:49 AM - Re: considering a piet build (nightmare)
13. 11:09 AM - Re: Inspection rings (helspersew@aol.com)
14. 11:16 AM - Re: 787 differences training (aerocarjake)
15. 11:20 AM - Re: considering a piet build (Catdesigns)
16. 11:24 AM - Re: 787 differences training (tools)
17. 11:24 AM - Re: Inspection rings (giacummo)
18. 11:32 AM - Re: Re: Inspection rings (John Hofmann)
19. 11:32 AM - Re: Re: 787 differences training (Gerry Holland)
20. 11:36 AM - Re: OT The other end of the performance envelope. 787 (tools)
21. 11:37 AM - Re: Re: 787 differences training (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
22. 11:40 AM - Re: considering a piet build (Jerry Dotson)
23. 11:49 AM - Re: Re: 787 differences training (John Hofmann)
24. 11:49 AM - Re: Inspection rings (giacummo)
25. 11:49 AM - Temperature Gauges W/O Electrical System (DaveG601XL)
26. 11:52 AM - Re: 787 differences training (Ryan Mueller)
27. 11:57 AM - Re: Temperature Gauges W/O Electrical System (Gerry Holland)
28. 12:04 PM - Re: Temperature Gauges W/O Electrical System (Dave Nielsen)
29. 12:18 PM - Re: Temperature Gauges W/O Electrical System (Gerry Holland)
30. 12:20 PM - Re: Temperature Gauges W/O Electrical System (tools)
31. 12:38 PM - Stitch question... (Jim Markle)
32. 12:44 PM - Thank you....: Need some help....off topic... (Jim Markle)
33. 01:34 PM - never mind.... Stitch question... (Jim Markle)
34. 02:13 PM - Re: Stitch question... (dgaldrich)
35. 02:57 PM - to post or not to post....that is the question (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP])
36. 03:56 PM - Re: Temperature Gauges W/O Electrical System (Dave Nielsen)
37. 04:31 PM - Re: Re: 787 differences training (Doug Dever)
38. 04:56 PM - Re: Temperature Gauges W/O Electrical System (pineymb)
39. 05:09 PM - Re: Temperature Gauges W/O Electrical System (Ben Charvet)
40. 05:36 PM - spins (airlion)
41. 07:28 PM - Re: to post or not to post....that is the question (Kyle85)
42. 07:35 PM - Horizontal stab end pieces (Kyle85)
43. 07:47 PM - Re: Horizontal stab end pieces (gboothe5@comcast.net)
44. 07:47 PM - Re: Horizontal stab end pieces (Chris)
45. 08:12 PM - Re: Horizontal stab end pieces (kevinpurtee)
46. 08:52 PM - considering a piet build (Oscar Zuniga)
47. 09:19 PM - Re: Horizontal stab end pieces (dgaldrich)
48. 10:21 PM - Re: spins (dgaldrich)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: considering a piet build |
Welcome Paul, if you want to be included in our Piet listing, fill out the
attached Excel sheet and return directly to me. I will then send you the
current list of about 100 builders and flyers.
Jack Textor
DSM
NX1929T
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nightmare
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 6:13 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
<pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com>
thank you for all the info. i'll search previous entries and order some
books to verify this is the plane for me. thanks; Paul Donahue
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370998#370998
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 46 Msgs - 04/16/12 |
Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone
----- Reply message -----
From: "Pietenpol-List Digest Server" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List Digest: 46 Msgs - 04/16/12
*
=================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=================================================
Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 12-04-16&Archive=Pietenpol
Text Version:
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===============================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
===============================================
----------------------------------------------------------
Pietenpol-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Mon 04/16/12: 46
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:53 AM - Dangerous Dave's Piet (Douwe Blumberg)
2. 05:55 AM - Re: Re: Wing Tip Bows (skipgadd@earthlink.net)
3. 06:07 AM - Re: aileron deflection (899PM)
4. 06:13 AM - Re: Re: Wing Tip Bows (Michael Perez)
5. 06:28 AM - Re: another step forward (TOM STINEMETZE)
6. 06:47 AM - considering a piet build (nightmare)
7. 06:58 AM - Re: considering a piet build (Jack Phillips)
8. 07:37 AM - Wing Hinge Strap (Kringle)
9. 07:46 AM - Re: Wing Hinge Strap (kevinpurtee)
10. 07:48 AM - Re: Wing Tip Bows (K5YAC)
11. 07:53 AM - Re: Wing Hinge Strap (Jack Phillips)
12. 07:58 AM - Re: Wing Hinge Strap (K5YAC)
13. 08:14 AM - Re: Wing Hinge Strap (Michael Perez)
14. 08:20 AM - Re: considering a piet build (Michael Perez)
15. 08:44 AM - Re: Wing Hinge Strap (K5YAC)
16. 08:51 AM - Re: considering a piet build (John Hofmann)
17. 08:54 AM - Re: Wing Tip Bows (pineymb)
18. 09:46 AM - Re: Need some help....off topic... (C N Campbell)
19. 10:22 AM - Re: Dangerous Dave's Piet (Jerry Dotson)
20. 10:49 AM - Re: Wing Hinge Strap (Catdesigns)
21. 10:55 AM - Re: Need some help....off topic... (K5YAC)
22. 11:47 AM - Re: Wing Hinge Strap (K5YAC)
23. 11:50 AM - Re: Wing Tip Bows (Bill Church)
24. 11:51 AM - more pictures (Bob edson)
25. 12:06 PM - Re: Wing Hinge Strap (Kringle)
26. 12:19 PM - Re: Wing Hinge Strap (kevinpurtee)
27. 01:04 PM - Re: considering a piet build (nightmare)
28. 01:21 PM - Re: Re: considering a piet build (gboothe5@comcast.net)
29. 01:53 PM - Re: Re: considering a piet build (Ben Charvet)
30. 02:00 PM - Re: Re: considering a piet build (Jack Phillips)
31. 02:11 PM - Re: considering a piet build (kevinpurtee)
32. 02:21 PM - Re: considering a piet build (K5YAC)
33. 02:55 PM - For Our New Friends - Who Builds and Flies (kevinpurtee)
34. 03:30 PM - Re: For Our New Friends - Who Builds and Flies (Kringle)
35. 03:39 PM - Re: For Our New Friends - Who Builds and Flies (kevinpurtee)
36. 03:41 PM - Re: Cowling Bumps (curtdm(at)gmail.com)
37. 03:56 PM - Re: Cowling Bumps (kevinpurtee)
38. 04:13 PM - Re: considering a piet build (nightmare)
39. 04:22 PM - FW: Re: Cowling Bumps (Gary Boothe)
40. 04:57 PM - Re: Wing Hinge Strap (shad bell)
41. 05:17 PM - Re: aileron deflection (Mild Bill)
42. 05:35 PM - Re: considering a piet build (Jerry Dotson)
43. 05:41 PM - Re: For Our New Friends - Who Builds and Flies (Greg Cardinal)
44. 06:01 PM - Re: Re: considering a piet build (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
45. 07:52 PM - OT The other end of the performance envelope. 787 (Dortch,
Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB)
46. 11:40 PM - Re: Re: considering a piet build (Dick N)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
Time: 04:53:56 AM PST US
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg@earthlink.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dangerous Dave's Piet
Someone asked about the status of Dangerous Dave's "quick-build" Piet.
I emailed him a few months ago since we haven't heard much after the first
flight, and he didn't say a lot. Sounds like it hasn't flown much, that
he's been very busy and the plane has moved airports. I too got the
impression that he was disappointed with it's performance, but I think it
was a pretty high runway.
That's about all I Know. Dave, if you're still following the list, we'd
sure be interested in a flight report.
Douwe
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
Time: 05:55:46 AM PST US
From: "skipgadd@earthlink.net" <skipgadd@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Tip Bows
You are right Gary, had to look in the archives to recall what I said, Aug
8 2009. I agree with you, it is a good idea to measure corner to corner
both ways frequently while assembling the wing, so the wing is as close as
possible to square before you do the actual trammeling with turnbuckles.
Skip
> [Original Message]
> From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 4/15/2012 1:47:41 PM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Tip Bows
>
>
> Additional thought, John...I think it was Skip Gadd who talked about
> trammeling at least 3 times, during each phase of the construct. Seems
like
> it would be a mistake to trammel the first time after the leading and
> trailing edges are on.
>
> Gary from Cool
> NX308MB
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
Time: 06:07:55 AM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: aileron deflection
From: "899PM" <rockriverrifle@hotmail.com>
Using .040" thick piano hinges for my ailerons and dimpling for 10-32 flatheads(to
set flush), I get 20.6 degrees of down travel before the hinge plates close
tight on each other.
--------
PAPA MIKE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370924#370924
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
Time: 06:13:01 AM PST US
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Tip Bows
That's cool to see. My wing tips look a lot like this one.
Michael Perez
Pietenpol HINT Videos
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com<http://www.karetakeraero.com>
________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
Time: 06:28:12 AM PST US
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS@mcpcity.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: another step forward
Beautiful Bob! Your panel looks great and your veneer job puts mine to shame.
Also, I love that checkerboard pattern on the control stick knob. I can imagine
how long it took to get that to come out right.
Stinemetze
do not archive
>>> "Bob edson" <robertse@centurytel.net> 4/14/2012 4:13 PM >>>
We started putting it back together today. Piet is on it's feet. Pictures not the
best but you can see what it will look like. The wings are painted like the
stabilizer. Thats my son in the picture. Bob
________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________
Time: 06:47:14 AM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: considering a piet build
From: "nightmare" <pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com>
how does it fly ( climb, handle, stall , ground hanle) compared to a cub. previously
owned a 1940 c85 cub. thinking of building one and teaching my two boys
( now 8 and 12 years) how to fly in it.
also; love the wood struts, and gear, do builders just cover in spar varnish or
fiberglass or just epoxy resin?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370934#370934
________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________
Time: 06:58:25 AM PST US
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: considering a piet build
Nightmare?
First, what is your real name and where do you live? We kind of like to
know names so we can put them with faces when we meet at Brodhead.
Second, a Pietenpol flies more like a Cub than anything else I've ever flown
- that's why I built one. I used to own a 1946 J-3 with a Continental 65
and chose to build a Pietenpol because I couldn't afford to buy a Cub at
today's prices.
I will say having flown both types, the Cub style "Improved" Pietenpol gear
is easier to land than the straight axle wire wheel variety. If I were
building one with an eye towards teaching kids to fly in it, I would build
the Cub-Style gear.
As for the wood struts, I have laminated spruce landing gear struts on mine
and simply coated them with 4 coats of epoxy varnish, and they've held up
very well in nearly 8 years of flying. For wooden lift struts and cabane
struts I expect epoxy varnish would do even better (the landing gear takes
more abuse from tall grass, rocks, etc.).
Good Luck!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nightmare
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 9:47 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: considering a piet build
<pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com>
how does it fly ( climb, handle, stall , ground hanle) compared to a cub.
previously owned a 1940 c85 cub. thinking of building one and teaching my
two boys ( now 8 and 12 years) how to fly in it.
also; love the wood struts, and gear, do builders just cover in spar
varnish or fiberglass or just epoxy resin?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370934#370934
________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________
Time: 07:37:09 AM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Hinge Strap
From: "Kringle" <Mrkringles@msn.com>
Since the center section wing straps go on the inside of the wing straps I am assuming
the plywood on the wing must be cut out for clearance? Looks like I missed
this on the plans :(
John
--------
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370941#370941
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/ws1_700.jpg
________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________
Time: 07:46:39 AM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Hinge Strap
From: "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>
I built a one piece wing, John, so I don't know, but if you're assumption is right
that's why you have a dremel tool.
do not archive
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/San Marcos, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370944#370944
________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________
Time: 07:48:47 AM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Tip Bows
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10@cox.net>
I'll be darn... the plans don't show it that way! The only braces I have are the
ones shown in the plans (in red), but the plans also show a spruce wing tip
bow, where I made mine from white pine. Perhaps I should look at adding the
compression strut and additional braces that the 66 model have.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370945#370945
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/wing_braces_147.jpg
________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________
Time: 07:53:13 AM PST US
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing Hinge Strap
One of those little areas in the plans that simply can't be built as drawn.
Vi Kapler put those in just to see if you were paying attention.
The straps are .090" thick, or nearly the same as a piece of 3/32" plywood.
You'll have to figure out how to arrange the doublers so the straps can
overlap each other. I chose to just put the plywood doublers on the wing
spars and omit them on the centersection spars, allowing the wing straps to
just slip over the centersection straps as shown in the photo below:
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kringle
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 10:36 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Hinge Strap
Since the center section wing straps go on the inside of the wing straps I
am assuming the plywood on the wing must be cut out for clearance? Looks
like I missed this on the plans :(
John
--------
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370941#370941
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/ws1_700.jpg
________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________
Time: 07:58:46 AM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Hinge Strap
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10@cox.net>
You are right John, but it isn't really pointed out in the plans.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370946#370946
________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________
Time: 08:14:55 AM PST US
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Hinge Strap
If it is not too late John, you can add another piece of plywood under your CS
straps to make room for the wing strap.
Michael Perez
Pietenpol HINT Videos
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com<http://www.karetakeraero.com>
________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________
Time: 08:20:04 AM PST US
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: considering a piet build
Nightmare, welcome.
I can't answer any flying characteristic questions as my plane is still being built.
However, on the wood...a varnish or some sort of wood protectant is needed.
I use spar varnish on mine.
Personally, I am fine with call signs.
Michael Perez
Pietenpol HINT Videos
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com<http://www.karetakeraero.com>
________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________
Time: 08:44:58 AM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Hinge Strap
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10@cox.net>
Or you can just remove your wing straps and Dremel/file/sand the material you need
removed for clearance.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370950#370950
________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________
Time: 08:51:15 AM PST US
From: John Hofmann <jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: considering a piet build
As an owner of both I have to concur with what Jack stated. The Piet is
very similar to the Cub in lot of ways. A few observations below:
The Piet is a bit faster. My Cub is slow and 502rocket is pretty quick.
I cruise easily at 75-77 and my Cub cruises at about 72.
The sight lines are similar. Backseat solo gives the same lack of
visibility that at Cub gives, especially on the ground. It is easier to
lean your head out of the Piet to see around.
Major flight numbers are about the same for both. Climb and final speeds
the same. The Piet does have a much worse glide ratio than a Cub. Just
plan accordingly.
Stall is sharper than a Cub. Nothing bad but it drops quickly and is
easily picked up with proper technique. Te be fair I have vortex
generators on the Cub so it does not really stall at all. It just kind
of mushes and nods its head.
The Cub is much easier to load/unload and is more capable of giving the
fat guy a ride. It does have seven more feet of wing and is more
tolerant of CG and gross weight issues.
The Cub has brakes for both occupants, a must for instruction. I have
not seen a Piet that had brakes in the front but I bet it has been done
with weight penalties and seldom use.
The Cub rides turbulence better. When in bumps in a Cub one seems to
instinctively be able to predict the airplane's response. In the
Pietenpol it is "wahoo" we are along for the ride. I just pull the
shoulder strap a little tighter. My daughter loves it because "it is
like being in a roller coaster."
Cub has a door that closes and some semblance of cabin heat, however,
nothing is quite like the feeling of open cockpit.
That is about all I can think of for now.
-john-
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2424 American Lane
Madison, WI 53704
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
On Apr 16, 2012, at 10:18 AM, Michael Perez wrote:
> Nightmare, welcome.
>
> I can't answer any flying characteristic questions as my plane is
still being built. However, on the wood...a varnish or some sort of wood
protectant is needed. I use spar varnish on mine.
>
> Personally, I am fine with call signs.
>
> Michael Perez
> Pietenpol HINT Videos
> Karetaker Aero
> www.karetakeraero.com<http://www.karetakeraero.com>
>
>
________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________
Time: 08:54:53 AM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Tip Bows
From: "pineymb" <airltd@mts.net>
Another wing tip bow example with a built up last rib and capping for additional
strength. Not sure how much difference this makes when in compression but probably
can't hurt.
--------
Adrian M
Winnipeg, MB
Canada
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370951#370951
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00400_132.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00375_149.jpg
________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________
Time: 09:46:20 AM PST US
From: "C N Campbell" <cncampbell@windstream.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Need some help....off topic...
Jim, I rebuilt a Piper PA22 a few years back and when I got ready to fly it,
I took the spark plugs out and turned the engine over with the starter until
the oil pressure built up. I then reinstalled the plugs, put fuel in the
tanks, and started the engine normally. The engine ran fine until I sold it
a couple of years later. A little MMO in the oil also helped a lot. It
frees the rings and gives much better compression. Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2012 7:13 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Need some help....off topic...
> <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
>
> A pilot friend passed on about a year (or two) ago and his Champ has just
> been sitting...his daughter owns it now....it's on a grass strip about a
> mile from us.
>
> I've recommended to her that we at least pull it out of the hangar and
> start it from time to time. And she's fine with me taking it up if I
> want. (Of course I'm fine with that!). Mainly I hate to see it waste
> away...and it will if we don't do something.
>
> So do we just start propping to get it started or is there some process we
> need to follow for an aircraft that's been sitting for so long?
>
> Sorry for such an "off topic" request but....well....maybe this could lead
> to me getting some tailwheel time (yes, I know, ONLY after getting some
> tailwheel training...) but that might make me a better Piet pilot, right?
> :-)
>
> If someone has experience with such and could tell me what to watch for
> and give some pointers it would be appreciated.
>
> Offlist please.
>
> Thanks,
> Jim in Pryor (where the storms might pass us by this time....)
>
>
________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________
Time: 10:22:54 AM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dangerous Dave's Piet
From: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson@centurylink.net>
The last time I heard from Dave was last September. He was flying his Piet a lot.
He changed the prop and got happy with it. He said he got 70 knots at 2300
rpm. He also moved his gear forward. It flies hands off at that power setting
after adding a rudder trim tab.
do not archive
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
now covering and painting
21" wheels
Lycoming O-235 C2C
Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370964#370964
________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________
Time: 10:49:43 AM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Hinge Strap
From: "Catdesigns" <Catdesigns@att.net>
As it typical when building a Pietenpol, if you look closely, its on the plans.
Take note of the wood grain on the drawings then you will notice there is 3/32-inch
plywood under the straps on the wing side and a triangle piece of 3/32-inch
ply that is below (below not under) the strap on the center section side.
Center section side
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Chris%20Tracy/images/IMG_1978.JPG
Wing Side
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Chris%20Tracy/images/Center_Fitting_Back_Side.JPG
--------
Chris
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370967#370967
________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________
Time: 10:55:18 AM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Need some help....off topic...
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10@cox.net>
Jim, I know the guy who did some of the maintenance and quite possibly the last
annual on that airplane. Shot you a text.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370968#370968
________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________
Time: 11:47:13 AM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Hinge Strap
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10@cox.net>
I think what John is talking about is the area in red. It looks pretty obvious,
but isn't really called out as needing clearance.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370975#370975
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________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________
Time: 11:50:19 AM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Tip Bows
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
When I read some of the replies, mentioning how the wingtip bow is actually a compression
strut, I thought "that can't be right", since it is curved, and it
sits out on the ends of the spars (fastened with brackets and screws). But then
I took another look at the plans, and saw that it actually would act as a compression
strut. Not really an ideal design , since all of the compressive forces
are actually acting on the screws, rather than on the strut itself. While
the 1966 BHP wing shown in Dan's photo does add a little bit of weight, it does
seem to be a better design (in terms of providing a proper compression strut
at the wing tip). When the time comes, I think I'll build mine like that (or
similarly).
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370976#370976
________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________
Time: 11:51:39 AM PST US
From: "Bob edson" <robertse@centurytel.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: more pictures
Update with tail on and wheels on. some more pictures, Bob
________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________
Time: 12:06:32 PM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Hinge Strap
From: "Kringle" <Mrkringles@msn.com>
Mark is correct but with the right tool (laminate trimmer) the job was easy. Thanks
to all for the help. I love this list!
--------
John
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________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________
Time: 12:19:32 PM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Hinge Strap
From: "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>
You 'da man, John!
do not archive
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/San Marcos, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370980#370980
________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________
Time: 01:04:27 PM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
From: "nightmare" <pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com>
Wow , you guys are great. thanks for all the quick responses. My name is Paul Donahue
and i live in royal palm beach florida (5 miles west of west palm beach
int'l). If you don't mind , here is a couple of more questions for you.
1.Has any one built a stretch wing Piet? (i know, stick to the plans)
2. Do builders use AN hardware or is the grade 8 nuts and bolts at the hardware
store sufficient? (i believe it is same grade steel, usually courser threading
though at hardware store)
3. I saw Keri Anns webpage, beautiful bird. any nonbias opinions on the removable
wing option ? would love to have option of removing or even folding the
wings to bring home.
4. are there any piet builders / owners near me?
5. how about opinions on building out of poplar?
Thanks again; seems like a tight knit group
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370982#370982
________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________
Time: 01:21:50 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
From: gboothe5@comcast.net
Paul,
I can only answer one of those: Mine is almost all Poplar (not yet flying); but
when it does fly, it won't be the only Poplar Piet.
Oh...stay away from that non-A/C hardware stuff!
Welcome!
Gary from Cool
------Original Message------
From: nightmare
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
ReplyTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
Sent: Apr 16, 2012 1:02 PM
Wow , you guys are great. thanks for all the quick responses. My name is Paul Donahue
and i live in royal palm beach florida (5 miles west of west palm beach
int'l). If you don't mind , here is a couple of more questions for you.
1.Has any one built a stretch wing Piet? (i know, stick to the plans)
2. Do builders use AN hardware or is the grade 8 nuts and bolts at the hardware
store sufficient? (i believe it is same grade steel, usually courser threading
though at hardware store)
3. I saw Keri Anns webpage, beautiful bird. any nonbias opinions on the removable
wing option ? would love to have option of removing or even folding the
wings to bring home.
4. are there any piet builders / owners near me?
5. how about opinions on building out of poplar?
Thanks again; seems like a tight knit group
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370982#370982
Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry
________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________
Time: 01:53:35 PM PST US
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
1. I know of at least one "stretched wing" Piet that was up in the
Jacksonville area (Pat Green's)
2. You can't easily buy Grade 8 bolts in 3/16 size, and judging by my
trip to the hardware store yesterday, I'm not sure they dould be any
cheaper. In Florida you can get anything from Aircraft Spruce out of
Atlanta in 2 days.
4, I'm located in Titusville, just 150 miles north of you.
5. I built my Pietenpol out of Douglas Fir that I bought locally, and
used Okoume plywood that I bought in Palm Beach County.
This really is a good group and they were all a great help during my build.
Ben Charvet
Titusville, Fl
NX866BC, 125 hrs so far
On 4/16/2012 4:02 PM, nightmare wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "nightmare"<pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com>
>
> Wow , you guys are great. thanks for all the quick responses. My name is Paul
Donahue and i live in royal palm beach florida (5 miles west of west palm beach
int'l). If you don't mind , here is a couple of more questions for you.
> 1.Has any one built a stretch wing Piet? (i know, stick to the plans)
> 2. Do builders use AN hardware or is the grade 8 nuts and bolts at the hardware
store sufficient? (i believe it is same grade steel, usually courser threading
though at hardware store)
> 3. I saw Keri Anns webpage, beautiful bird. any nonbias opinions on the
removable wing option ? would love to have option of removing or even folding
the wings to bring home.
> 4. are there any piet builders / owners near me?
> 5. how about opinions on building out of poplar?
>
> Thanks again; seems like a tight knit group
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370982#370982
>
>
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________
Time: 02:00:44 PM PST US
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
Paul,
Bill Rewey was always talking about building a "Super Pietenpol" with a
longer wing, to approximate the wing loading of a Cub. I don't know if any
have ever been built. Mine has a 6" longer than normal wingspan, but that
was done to increase the volume in the centersection to give more fuel
capacity. I will say that making such a change has dramatic ripple effects
running through the entire airplane. The best flying Pietenpols seem to be
the ones that were built closest to the plans.
As Gary said - use aircraft hardware. It is not that much more expensive
(maybe less than Grade 8 hardware), and the fine threads will be much more
effective for getting accurate torques and for preventing loosening due to
vibration. Besides, when you are getting bounced around by turbulence, it
is reassuring to not have to wonder if your hardware is going to fail.
Opinions on folding wings for a Piet? While that is always an attractive
option for people thinking of building an airplane, I've never seen it done
in practice. With a Pietenpol, I think it would be a pain due to having to
tighten and safety wire the turnbuckles on the bracing wires between the
struts every time you wanted to go flying. Also, many Pietenpols use simple
bronze bushings on their axles, and while that is more than adequate for the
amount of taxiing done at an airport, I wouldn't take any bets on how long a
bushing would last being towed at highway speeds. Of course you could load
it on a trailer, but that too is expensive. Weight is critical with these
airplanes, and any wing folding mechanism is going to add weight that you
can ill afford to add. As Walt evans used to say on this list "Simplicate
and add Lightness". A wing folding mechanism does neither.
There are severl Pietenpol builders/flyers in Florida. I'll leave it to
them to contact you.
As Gary said, there have been several Piets built of poplar. It is a good
light wood. Not as light as spruce (Poplar is 16% heavier than sitka
spruce), but somewhat stronger (Poplar's numbers generally run about 20%
higher than spruce), so it has about the same strength to weight ratio. It
works easily (nearly as easy as spruce, and much better than Douglas Fir,
the other common choiceof non-aircraft grade woods). So all in all it is
not a bad choice, particularly if you have a lot of experience in grading
and selecting wood. Bear in mind that if you are choosing a wood other than
aircraft grade spruce just to save money, the cost of the wood in a
Pietenpol is something around 10% of the total price of the airplane, using
aircraft spruce. You will spend so much more money on other things
(primarily the engine) that the cost of wood is insignificant.
Good luck with all your choices.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nightmare
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 4:03 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
<pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com>
Wow , you guys are great. thanks for all the quick responses. My name is
Paul Donahue and i live in royal palm beach florida (5 miles west of west
palm beach int'l). If you don't mind , here is a couple of more questions
for you.
1.Has any one built a stretch wing Piet? (i know, stick to the plans)
2. Do builders use AN hardware or is the grade 8 nuts and bolts at the
hardware store sufficient? (i believe it is same grade steel, usually
courser threading though at hardware store)
3. I saw Keri Anns webpage, beautiful bird. any nonbias opinions on the
removable wing option ? would love to have option of removing or even
folding the wings to bring home.
4. are there any piet builders / owners near me?
5. how about opinions on building out of poplar?
Thanks again; seems like a tight knit group
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370982#370982
________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________
Time: 02:11:51 PM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
From: "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>
Hi Paul - Welcome. This group is a family, and like all families you'll find some
dysfunction. Spend some time here and you'll figure out whose advice you
really want. There are a lot of smart, talented people in the group. I personally
seek guidance from builders who have completed a plane and fly it a lot.
There's something about "flight proven" that you just can't beat. You'll get
a lot of advice from fellows who haven't finished their planes and who don't
have their pilot's license. They're not necessarily wrong, but they're strictly
theoretical.
Your questions:
1) Jack Phillips built a stretch wing and says he regrets it.
2) AN Hardware.
3) If you need removable/folding wings you may want to consider another design.
4) There are builders in FL.
5) Gary Boothe has built an entire airplane from poplar. His workmanship is superb.
I'm flying wooden wing struts Gary built for me. Anyway, it's up to you.
Spruce is the standard, and the spruce from Aircraft Spruce & Specialty has
been graded. In the grand scheme of things there's not that much price advantage.
My comments:
1) Get familiar with searching the list archives.
2) Get the 4 Tony Bingelis books from EAA. EAA's wood and welding books are also
good. Finally, the FAA AC 43-13...whatever is the bible.
3) Plan on attending Brodhead.
Again, welcome.
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/San Marcos, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370988#370988
________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________
Time: 02:21:22 PM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10@cox.net>
Just wanted to say welcome, Paul! I'm still building, so can't offer a lot of
practical advice.
As Jack said, "Good luck with your choices"... there are plenty to consider.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage and Fuse framed up - Working on Landing Gear
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370989#370989
________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________
Time: 02:55:05 PM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: For Our New Friends - Who Builds and Flies
From: "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>
I encourage our new members to pay particular attention to people on the list who
have built their own airplanes and who fly them a lot. Please add names of
active builder/flyers to the list so they know who I'm talking about. I did
not include people I have not seen on the list.
List members who built their planes and actively fly: Mike Cuy, Jack Phillips,
Larry Williams, Don Emch, Shad & Gary Bell, Randy Bush, Ben Charvet, Greg Cardinal,
Lowell Frank, Dan Helsper, Hans van der Voort, Tim Mickel, PF Beck, Kevin
Purtee.
Cuy, Phillips, Williams, Emch, the Bells, Bush and Purtee fly several hundred mile
cross-country flights.
Please feel free to add on. I know I didn't get everyone.
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/San Marcos, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370992#370992
________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________
Time: 03:30:07 PM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: For Our New Friends - Who Builds and Flies
From: "Kringle" <Mrkringles@msn.com>
Kevin,
As a relatively new member, I am aware of these people and seek them out when I
travel to Brodhead. Many on this list, including you, have met me but just don't
remember it. Although I greatly appreciate everyones suggestions and comments,
those builders and flyers you've named carry more weight when I make my
decisions. Thanks to all for your help.
John
--------
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370994#370994
________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________
Time: 03:39:37 PM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: For Our New Friends - Who Builds and Flies
From: "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>
Did I like you, John? :D
Actually, every year I get better at recognizing members of our on-line Piet family.
Lest I overstate my position: there are many people on this list who have not finished
their projects but who I respect deeply as builders. I listen to them.
The corollary is that some people who have finished and fly may not be the
best source of information in some cases. But there's a special tenacity in a
builder who flies his finished airplane 600+ miles to Brodhead that might be
worth exploring.
do not archive,
and wear your name tag at Brodhead,
and remind me who you are,
and if I'm busy talking with another Piet person or flying then come find me in
the cove later.
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/San Marcos, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370995#370995
________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________
Time: 03:41:15 PM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cowling Bumps
From: "curtdm(at)gmail.com" <curtdm@gmail.com>
I knew it resembled something.........
Curt Merdan
Flower Mound, TX
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
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________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________
Time: 03:56:01 PM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cowling Bumps
From: "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>
I think your stock just went way up, Curt.
do not archive
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/San Marcos, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370997#370997
________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________
Time: 04:13:20 PM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
From: "nightmare" <pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com>
thank you for all the info. i'll search previous entries and order some books to
verify this is the plane for me. thanks; Paul Donahue
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370998#370998
________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________
Time: 04:22:14 PM PST US
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
Subject: FW: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cowling Bumps
I tried my own for a pattern...but it was WAY too big...
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
curtdm(at)gmail.com
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 3:40 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cowling Bumps
--> <curtdm@gmail.com>
I knew it resembled something.........
Curt Merdan
Flower Mound, TX
Do not archive
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________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________
Time: 04:57:40 PM PST US
From: shad bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing Hinge Strap
Another option (if not mentioned earlier) that many airplane designs do is
use 1/4 inch plates (doublers)-on the c/s spars, and 1/8 inch plates on t
he outboard wing spars.- this way the outboard -wing spar fittings fit
inside the c/s spar fittings.- The plywood spar doublers act to prevent t
he spars from splitting.- As you can see there are many ways to skin-th
is cat.
-
Shad-
-
From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing Hinge Strap
One of those little areas in the plans that simply can't be built as drawn.
-Vi Kapler put those in just to see if you were paying attention.
-
The straps are .090" thick, or nearly the same as a piece of 3/32" plywood.
- You'll have to figure out how to arrange the doublers so the straps can
overlap each other.- I chose to just put the plywood doublers on the win
g spars and omit them on the centersection spars, allowing the wing straps
to just slip over the centersection straps as shown in the photo below:
-
-
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kringle
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 10:36 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Hinge Strap
-
-
Since the center section wing straps go on the inside of the wing straps I
am assuming the plywood on the wing must be cut out for clearance?- Looks
like I missed this on the plans- :(
-
John
-
--------
John
-
-
-
-
Read this topic online here:
-
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370941#370941
-
-
-
-
Attachments:
-
http://forums.matronics.com//files/ws1_700.jpg
-
-
-
-
-
-
________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________
Time: 05:17:06 PM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: aileron deflection
From: "Mild Bill" <whfrank@charter.net>
Bill Church wrote:
> Ralph,
>
> The plans don't list deflections for any of the control surfaces, but in the
UK, the LAA has documented the recommended travels, and shows typical aileron
deflection to be 15 Up and 20 Down (that translates to about 3" up and 3 1/2"
down.
> http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/TADs/047%20PIETENPOL%20AIRCAMPER.pdf
>
> Bill C.
If there is going to be any aileron differential at all, wouldn't a sane person
want more Up than Down?
--------
Bill Frank
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371004#371004
________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________
Time: 05:35:50 PM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
From: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson@centurylink.net>
Welcome to the group Paul. I live about 50 miles east of Pensacola,Fl. I extended
the wingspan on my 1 piece wing. It is 32' 6". The reason I did is my runway
is only 1300 feet long and hope to shorten the take off run some and maybe climb
a little bit better. I have not flown it yet but hope to have it ready in
a couple of months. As to the AN bolts and washers they are cheaper at Aircraft
Spruce than my local Lowes.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
now covering and painting
21" wheels
Lycoming O-235 C2C
Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44
Read this topic online here:
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________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________
Time: 05:41:18 PM PST US
From: "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: For Our New Friends - Who Builds and Flies
Add Dick Navratil and Bob Poore. Lots of good, relevant experience.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 4:54 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: For Our New Friends - Who Builds and Flies
> <kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>
>
> I encourage our new members to pay particular attention to people on the
> list who have built their own airplanes and who fly them a lot. Please
> add names of active builder/flyers to the list so they know who I'm
> talking about. I did not include people I have not seen on the list.
>
> List members who built their planes and actively fly: Mike Cuy, Jack
> Phillips, Larry Williams, Don Emch, Shad & Gary Bell, Randy Bush, Ben
> Charvet, Greg Cardinal, Lowell Frank, Dan Helsper, Hans van der Voort, Tim
> Mickel, PF Beck, Kevin Purtee.
>
> Cuy, Phillips, Williams, Emch, the Bells, Bush and Purtee fly several
> hundred mile cross-country flights.
>
> Please feel free to add on. I know I didn't get everyone.
>
> --------
> Kevin "Axel" Purtee
> NX899KP
> Austin/San Marcos, TX
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370992#370992
>
>
________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________
Time: 06:01:23 PM PST US
From: AMsafetyC@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
Welcome Paul,
I am building with poplar also. I like working with it is got great
properties and is nice to work with. All my ribs are spruce and most everything
else is poplar with the exception of the landing gear, cabanes and wing
struts which are laminated ash and black walnut with metal embedded at strategic
locations.
welcome to the group , some really good people here many the best you'll
ever encounter and others of dubious distinction whom you'll meet in Brodhead
also.
Of all the advice you have received none of will amount to nothing if you
cant piick up a quote and deliver the next line with out hesitation from
the Great Waldo Pepper. I suggest you get a copy and learn it, its in
integral part of the vocabulary and John Hoffman will tell you in all honest that
all the problems in life can be solved by the phrases, and dialogue
contained. So if ya wanna really experience the build you got to learn the
language
Son........Son.......... I'd be obliged if you'd prop me son!
John
Safe in the morning and dangerous through out the day
Do not archive, maybe one day if and when we meet I'll fill ya in on the
rest!
Do not archive
________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________
Time: 07:52:53 PM PST US
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: OT The other end of the performance envelope. 787
>From the Beech list. Thot y'all might like the other perspective:
>From a friend of my friend the retired AA Captain
Pete.
_____
Hi All,
I just completed the first pilot training class on the 787 at United
Airlines, an airplane which is destined to replace the 767 and live for many
years after I retire. Here's what I've learned in 787 training so far. By
the way, last night we passed our MV (maneuvers validation) check ride, with
emergency after emergency, and the FAA observing. Tonight was our LOE
(line-oriented evaluation), again with FAA - this time 2 FAA observers. It's
0200 and I just got back to the hotel and poured a well-earned glass of wine
to celebrate. I now have a type rating in the 787. Phew. I'm pretty
confident this will be the last one for me.
I've summarized some of the major differences and unique features of the 787
versus more traditional "old school" airplanes like the 777 (not kidding) -
from the pilot's viewpoint. Our "Differences" course takes 11 days to gain
an FAA type rating, which is a "common" type rating with the 777. The course
has been like drinking from a fire hose, but has finally come together. Some
of our pilots attended Boeing's 5-day differences course, and deemed it
unacceptable. The FAA approved the Boeing 5-day course, but our guys decided
it lacked too much information. FAA is observing our checkrides now, and
taking our course as well, to certify the training. We're just the guinea
pigs.
A computer nerd would describe the 787 as 17 computer servers packaged in a
kevlar frame. The central brains is the Common Core System (CCS). Two Common
Computing Resources (CCRs) coordinate the communications of all the computer
systems, isolating faults and covering failed systems with working systems.
When battery power is first applied to the airplane in the morning, it takes
about 50 seconds for the L CCR to boot up. After this, a few displays light
up and you can start the APU. If there is a major loss of cockpit displays,
this may require a CCR reboot, which would take about a minute. Here are a
few of the major features and differences from the 777.
Electrics - Though a smaller plane, the 787 has 4 times the electric
generating power of the 777 - 1.4 gigawatts. Generators produce 235 VAC for
the big power users. Other systems use the traditional 115 VAC and 28 VDC.
There are 17 scattered Remote Power Distribution Units which power about 900
loads throughout the plane. The big power distribution system is in the aft
belly, along with a Power Electronics Cooling System (PECS). This is a
liquid cooling system for the large motor power distribution system. There's
also an Integrated Cooling System (ICS), which provides refrigerated air for
the galley carts and cabin air, and a Miscellaneous Equipment Cooling System
for Inflight Entertainment Equipment.
If 3 of the 4 engine generators fail, the APU starts itself. The APU drives
two generators, and can be operated up to the airplane's max altitude of
43,000 feet. If you lose all 4 engine generators, the RAT (ram air turbine)
drops out (like a windmill), powering essential buses. (It also provides
hydraulic power to flight controls if needed).
If you lose all 4 engine generators and the two APU generators (a really bad
day), you are down to Standby Power. The RAT will drop out and provide
power, but even if it fails, you still have the autopilot and captain's
flight director and instruments, FMC, 2 IRSs, VHF radios, etc. If you're
down to batteries only, with no RAT, you'd better get it on the ground, as
battery time is limited. Brakes and antiskid are electric - 28V - so you
don't lose brakes or antiskid even when you're down to just standby power.
Normal flight controls are hydraulic with a couple exceptions. Engine driven
and electric hydraulic pumps operate at 5000 psi (versus normal 3000 psi) to
allow for smaller tubing sizes and actuators, thus saving weight. If you
lose all 3 hydraulic systems (another bad day), you still have two spoiler
panels on each wing which are electrically powered all the time, as is the
stabilizer trim. You can still fly the airplane (no flaps, though). If
you're having an even worse day and you lose all hydraulics and all
generators, flight control power is still coming from separate Permanent
Magnet Generators (PMGs) which produce power even if both engines quit and
are windmilling. If the PMGs fail, too, your flight controls will be powered
by the 28 V standby bus.
If you lose all 3 pitot/static systems or air data computers, the airplane
reverts to angle of attack speed (converts AOA to IAS), and this is
displayed on the normal PFDs (primary flight displays) airspeed indicator
tapes. GPS altitude is substituted for air data altitude and displayed on
the PFD altimeter tapes. Very convenient.
If you lose both Attitude and Heading Reference Units (AHRUs), it reverts to
the standby instrument built-in attitude & heading gyro, but displays this
on both pilot's PFDs for convenience.
If you lose both Inertial Reference Units, it will substitute GPS position,
and nothing is lost.
If someone turns one or both IRSs off in flight (I hate it when they do
that), you can realign them - as long as one of the GPSs is working!
There is no pneumatic system. The only engine bleed is used for that
engine's anti-ice. Wing anti-ice is electric. Each of two air conditioning
packs control two CACs, which are electric cabin air compressors. The four
CACs share two air inlets on the belly. Each pack controller controls two
CACs, but if a pack controller fails, the remaining pack controller takes
over control of all 4 CACs.
There are no circuit breakers in the cockpit. To check on them, or if you
get a message that one has opened (more likely), you select the CBIC
(circuit breaker indication and control) display on one of the MFDs (multi
function displays). There you can reset the virtual C/B if it is an
"electronic" circuit breaker. You can't reset a popped "thermal" circuit
breaker.
If you have an APU fire on the ground or inflight, the fire extinguishing
bottle is automatically discharged. If there is a cargo fire, the first two
of seven bottles will automatically discharge also.
There's a Nitrogen Generation System which provides automatic full-time
flammability protection by displacing fuel vapors in the fuel tanks with
nitrogen (Remember TWA 800?).
Like the 767 and 777, the 787 also has full CPDLC capability
(controller-to-pilot datalink communications). In addition, its full FANS
capability includes ADS-B in & out. The controller can uplink speed,
heading, and altitude changes to the airplane. These show up on a second
line right under the speed, heading and altitude displays on the mode
control panel. If you pilot wants to use them, he can press a XFR button
next to each window. The controller can even uplink a conditional clearance,
like - After passing point XYZ, climb to FL390. If you accept this, it will
do it automatically.
Fuel system - like the 777, the 787 has a fuel dump system which
automatically dumps down to your maximum landing weight, if that is what you
want. In addition, it has a Fuel Balance switch which automatically balances
your L & R main tanks for you. No more opening crossfeed valves and turning
off fuel pumps in flight. No more forgetting to turn them back on, either.
Flight Controls - An "Autodrag" function operates when the airplane is high
on approach and landing flaps have been selected. It extends the ailerons
and two most outboard spoilers, while maintaining airspeed, to assist in
glidepath capture from above, if you are high on the glideslope. The feature
removes itself below 500 feet.
Cruise flaps is an automated function when level at cruise. It symmetrically
moves the flaps, ailerons, flaperons, and spoilers based on weight, airspeed
and altitude to optimize cruise performance by varying the wing camber, thus
reducing drag.
Gust suppression - Vertical gust suppression enhances ride quality when in
vertical gusts and turbulence. It uses symmetric deflection of flaperons and
elevators to smooth the bumps. This should result in fewer whitecaps in
passengers' coffee and cocktails. Lateral gust suppression improves the ride
when on approach by making yaw commands in response to lateral gusts and
turbulence.
Instrument Approaches - The airplane is actually approved for autoland based
not only on ILS but on GLS approaches - GPS with Ground based augmentation
system, which corrects the GPS signals. GLS minimums are the same as CAT I
ILSs - 200' and 1/2 mile visibility. Our airline is not yet approved for GLS
autolandings yet, though we will be doing GLS approaches.
Special Cat I & II HUD approaches - These allow lower than normal minimums
when the Heads Up Devices are used at certain approved airports (HUDs). The
HUDs include runway centerline guidance which helps you stay on the
centerline on takeoff when visibility is greatly reduced. It uses either ILS
or GLS for this.
Cabin - Pressurization differential pressure maximum is 9.4 psid, so the
cabin altitude is only 6000 feet when at the max cruising altitude of 43,000
feet. There is a cockpit humidifier switch, and cabin air humidification is
fully automatic. Cabin windows are larger than other airplanes, and window
shading is electronic. The passenger can select 5 levels of shading, from
clear to black. The flight attendants can control the cabin lighting
temperature - mood lighting - to aid in dealing with changing time zones
(evening light after dinner, morning light to wake up, etc.).
Much of the cockpit seems like it was designed by Apple. The Control Display
Units (CDUs) are virtual, so you can move them from one MFD to another. In
fact, you can configure the displays in 48 different ways, I think, though
we have found a few favorites we will use to keep it simple. To move the
cursor from one MFD to another, you can either use a button, or you can
"flick" your finger across the trackpad (Cursor Control Device) to fling the
cursor from one screen to the next - much like an iPad.
I'm going home this morning, and will return for a 777 simulator ride before
I go back to work. They want to make sure we've still got the old-fashioned
legacy airplane in our brain before we fly the 777 again, even though it
shares a "common type rating". We won't get the first 787 until October, and
begin operations in November or December. At that time I'll return for at
least 4 days refresher training before beginning IOE - initial operating
experience in the airplane - with passengers.
What a ride. It may be "fuel efficient", but I'm glad someone else is paying
for the gas.
Bill
________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________
Time: 11:40:58 PM PST US
From: "Dick N" <horzpool@goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
Hi Paul
I completely agree with Jack and I built my last Piet with a center swction
a foot wider than plans to accomidate larger fuel tanks, then I built the
wings to plans. I notice the difference and have flight tested this plane
to 1300 lbs.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 3:56 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
> <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
>
> Paul,
>
> Bill Rewey was always talking about building a "Super Pietenpol" with a
> longer wing, to approximate the wing loading of a Cub. I don't know if
> any
> have ever been built. Mine has a 6" longer than normal wingspan, but that
> was done to increase the volume in the centersection to give more fuel
> capacity. I will say that making such a change has dramatic ripple
> effects
> running through the entire airplane. The best flying Pietenpols seem to
> be
> the ones that were built closest to the plans.
>
> As Gary said - use aircraft hardware. It is not that much more expensive
> (maybe less than Grade 8 hardware), and the fine threads will be much more
> effective for getting accurate torques and for preventing loosening due to
> vibration. Besides, when you are getting bounced around by turbulence, it
> is reassuring to not have to wonder if your hardware is going to fail.
>
> Opinions on folding wings for a Piet? While that is always an attractive
> option for people thinking of building an airplane, I've never seen it
> done
> in practice. With a Pietenpol, I think it would be a pain due to having
> to
> tighten and safety wire the turnbuckles on the bracing wires between the
> struts every time you wanted to go flying. Also, many Pietenpols use
> simple
> bronze bushings on their axles, and while that is more than adequate for
> the
> amount of taxiing done at an airport, I wouldn't take any bets on how long
> a
> bushing would last being towed at highway speeds. Of course you could
> load
> it on a trailer, but that too is expensive. Weight is critical with these
> airplanes, and any wing folding mechanism is going to add weight that you
> can ill afford to add. As Walt evans used to say on this list "Simplicate
> and add Lightness". A wing folding mechanism does neither.
>
> There are severl Pietenpol builders/flyers in Florida. I'll leave it to
> them to contact you.
>
> As Gary said, there have been several Piets built of poplar. It is a good
> light wood. Not as light as spruce (Poplar is 16% heavier than sitka
> spruce), but somewhat stronger (Poplar's numbers generally run about 20%
> higher than spruce), so it has about the same strength to weight ratio.
> It
> works easily (nearly as easy as spruce, and much better than Douglas Fir,
> the other common choiceof non-aircraft grade woods). So all in all it is
> not a bad choice, particularly if you have a lot of experience in grading
> and selecting wood. Bear in mind that if you are choosing a wood other
> than
> aircraft grade spruce just to save money, the cost of the wood in a
> Pietenpol is something around 10% of the total price of the airplane,
> using
> aircraft spruce. You will spend so much more money on other things
> (primarily the engine) that the cost of wood is insignificant.
>
> Good luck with all your choices.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nightmare
> Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 4:03 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
>
> <pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com>
>
> Wow , you guys are great. thanks for all the quick responses. My name is
> Paul Donahue and i live in royal palm beach florida (5 miles west of west
> palm beach int'l). If you don't mind , here is a couple of more questions
> for you.
> 1.Has any one built a stretch wing Piet? (i know, stick to the plans)
> 2. Do builders use AN hardware or is the grade 8 nuts and bolts at the
> hardware store sufficient? (i believe it is same grade steel, usually
> courser threading though at hardware store)
> 3. I saw Keri Anns webpage, beautiful bird. any nonbias opinions on the
> removable wing option ? would love to have option of removing or even
> folding the wings to bring home.
> 4. are there any piet builders / owners near me?
> 5. how about opinions on building out of poplar?
>
> Thanks again; seems like a tight knit group
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370982#370982
>
>
Real people. Real needs. Real solutions
Click here to view the United Way of Metropolitan Atlanta Community Report http://communityreport.unitedwayatlanta.org
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: considering a piet build |
Jerry, my wife and I are driving down to Destin on the 27th and I would like to
come up to see you sometime that weekend. What is your phone number.? Gardiner
----- Original Message ----
From: Jerry Dotson <jdotson@centurylink.net>
Sent: Mon, April 16, 2012 8:35:19 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
Welcome to the group Paul. I live about 50 miles east of Pensacola,Fl. I
extended the wingspan on my 1 piece wing. It is 32' 6". The reason I did is my
runway is only 1300 feet long and hope to shorten the take off run some and
maybe climb a little bit better. I have not flown it yet but hope to have it
ready in a couple of months. As to the AN bolts and washers they are cheaper at
Aircraft Spruce than my local Lowes.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
now covering and painting
21" wheels
Lycoming O-235 C2C
Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371005#371005
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| Subject: | Re: considering a piet build |
For Dick N.-
" I notice the difference and have flight tested this plane
to 1300 lbs."
Could you be more specific. By that I mean, did you notice a good difference or
a not-so-good difference? Since you have built two Piets, you might have a more
real-world viewpoint about this subject.
Thanks in advance for your response.
--------
Do Not Archive
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371035#371035
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| Subject: | Re: Cost of inspections |
Hi Malcom,
I do all the maintenance myself on the one I bought. My A&P charges me $225 to
do the annual condition inspection. He likes to supervise me pull the plugs and
clean/rotate them (Cont A-75), checks timing on both mags, checks the oil screen,
checks fuel screens, and then eyeballs everything really good. Before the
inspection I pull all the cowling, observation pannels and the seat backs,
lube all bearings and pulleys, pull the wheel pants and lube wheel bearings. Then
just take my time going over every nut and bolt. My personal pre-inspection
takes me about 3 or 4 hours. The A&P portion takes about 2 - 2.5 hours. This
year he wants to pull my metal prop and just make sure all is okay.
Lesson learned - you don't save money on annuals by building a plane like I thought
you would. I just doesn't cost that much in comparison to the rest of the
years expenses (mostly fuel).
Lorin
--------
Lorin Miller
Waiex N81YX
GN-1 N30PP
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371037#371037
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| Subject: | 787 differences training |
Can't figure out why anyone would consider putting that post on the Pietenpol website.
Many of us are flying Air Campers to escape such things and to get back
to the simple and purely joyful era of true flying.
I can attest that your lengthy quote was NOT from a pilot but from a "cockpit resource
manager" and cluttering up the Piet site with things like that might be
entertaining for some but how about just sending a link next time and don't
forget to add the obligatory...
DO NOT ARCHIVE
at the end.
Larry W.
T.C.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 787 differences training |
An appropriate and responsible response from our resident T.C. Good show!!
!
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Williams <lnawms@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:32 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 787 differences training
Can't figure out why anyone would consider putting that post on the Pietenp
ol website. Many of us are flying Air Campers to escape such things and to
get back to the simple and purely joyful era of true flying.
I can attest that your lengthy quote was NOT from a pilot but from a "cockp
it resource manager" and cluttering up the Piet site with things like that
might be entertaining for some but how about just sending a link next time
and don't forget to add the obligatory...
DO NOT ARCHIVE
at the end.
Larry W.
T.C.
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| Subject: | Inspection rings |
Hello,
I am not putting any ring by the moment, I just want to understand, or know better
about the inspection rings.
As I saw in lots of pictures and drawings there are 2 kinds of them, ones have
an aluminium (I think Al) hatch to close them, and others have just a rounf piece
of fabric over the a plastic ring.
The procedure to inspect with the ones with the fabric cover ( I want to understand
) is: cut the fabric inside the hole, inpect, and put a nuew piece of fabric...
isn't it?
thank you
--------
Mario Giacummo
http://vgmk1.blogspot.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371041#371041
Message 9
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| Subject: | Inspection rings |
Those rings hold the aluminum insp covers.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Inspection rings
> From: mario.giacummo@gmail.com
> Date: Tue=2C 17 Apr 2012 06:48:54 -0700
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
m>
>
> Hello=2C
>
> I am not putting any ring by the moment=2C I just want to understand=2C o
r know better about the inspection rings.
> As I saw in lots of pictures and drawings there are 2 kinds of them=2C on
es have an aluminium (I think Al) hatch to close them=2C and others have ju
st a rounf piece of fabric over the a plastic ring.
> The procedure to inspect with the ones with the fabric cover ( I want to
understand ) is: cut the fabric inside the hole=2C inpect=2C and put a nuew
piece of fabric... isn't it?
>
> thank you
>
> --------
> Mario Giacummo
> http://vgmk1.blogspot.com
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371041#371041
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Inspection rings |
Understand.
thanks
Mario Giacummo
... .. .-.. .- .- ...- . -. - ..- .-. .- . ... .--. . .-.. .. --. .-.
--- ... .- --..-- .--. .-. --- -... .- .-.. .- .-. ..- - .. -. .- --..--
. ... -- --- .-. - .- .-.. !!!!!
2012/4/17 Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com>
> Those rings hold the aluminum insp covers.
>
> Doug Dever
> In beautiful Stow Ohio
>
>
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Inspection rings
> > From: mario.giacummo@gmail.com
> > Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2012 06:48:54 -0700
> > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> >
> mario.giacummo@gmail.com>
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I am not putting any ring by the moment, I just want to understand, or
> know better about the inspection rings.
> > As I saw in lots of pictures and drawings there are 2 kinds of them,
> ones have an aluminium (I think Al) hatch to close them, and others have
> just a rounf piece of fabric over the a plastic ring.
> > The procedure to inspect with the ones with the fabric cover ( I want to
> understand ) is: cut the fabric inside the hole, inpect, and put a nuew
> piece of fabric... isn't it?
> >
> > thank you
> >
> > --------
> > Mario Giacummo
> > http://vgmk1.blogspot.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371041#371041
> >
> >======================
> &g======
> >
> >
> >
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: considering a piet build |
Terry
As you approach the upper limit you will certainly feel a difference in the
plane. The Pietenpol isnt a plane that is ever intended to carry a super
load, I am not saying that nor will I ever try it. The differences I
noticed were in takeoff run, the ability to climb and the basic attitude in
level flight. All of those things went down as weght went up. I really
think that 110 hp made a difference but the longer wing also made a
difference.
My whole perspective has changed a bit since my trip home from Brodhead last
year where I had 2 near misses on disaster, too much for one trip.
Dick N
----- Original Message -----
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 8:21 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: considering a piet build
> <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>
>
> For Dick N.-
>
> " I notice the difference and have flight tested this plane
> to 1300 lbs."
>
> Could you be more specific. By that I mean, did you notice a good
> difference or a not-so-good difference? Since you have built two Piets,
> you might have a more real-world viewpoint about this subject.
>
> Thanks in advance for your response.
>
> --------
> Do Not Archive
>
> Semper Fi,
>
> Terry Hand
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371035#371035
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: considering a piet build |
" I really
think that 110 hp made a difference but the longer wing also made a
difference. "
---
when you say " made a difference" , i assume in a good way, right?
also , is there much of a weight difference between a corvair 100 hp and a c-65
, c-85. thanks; Paul
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| Subject: | Re: Inspection rings |
Mario,
The plastic rings are initially captured in the covering process. These the
n remain in that state until the first inspection, at which time they are c
ut inside the ring and then covered with the aluminum cap. I think that is
what your question is.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: giacummo <mario.giacummo@gmail.com>
Sent: Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:49 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Inspection rings
Hello,
I am not putting any ring by the moment, I just want to understand, or know
etter about the inspection rings.
s I saw in lots of pictures and drawings there are 2 kinds of them, ones ha
ve
n aluminium (I think Al) hatch to close them, and others have just a rounf
iece of fabric over the a plastic ring.
he procedure to inspect with the ones with the fabric cover ( I want to
nderstand ) is: cut the fabric inside the hole, inpect, and put a nuew piec
e of
abric... isn't it?
thank you
--------
ario Giacummo
ttp://vgmk1.blogspot.com
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371041#371041
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
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-
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Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: 787 differences training |
I have been working on the 787 since it was a product development study in 1994
and I STILL would not post a story like that on the Pietenpol site. This site
is an escape from that complex world...!
Sometimes I tell people that during the day I work at the "world's largest airplane
factory" and at night I work at "the world's smallest airplane factory" -
my one car condo garage. Don't get me wrong, I love my job, yet find the Pietenpol
to be extremely personally gratifying...
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371071#371071
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: considering a piet build |
"My whole perspective has changed a bit since my trip home from Brodhead last
year where I had 2 near misses on disaster, too much for one trip.
Dick N"
I was curious about this statement so with a little internet snooping found this.
http://www.eaa25.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/eaa251108.pdf
--------
Chris
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371072#371072
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: 787 differences training |
Right now, 47 views on the aviation related post, 35 views on the rant... I guess
even some Piet folks find it interesting.
Why not just prohibit off topic posting?
Tools, wondering if that would make this post illegal as well...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371073#371073
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Inspection rings |
Yes, that was what i try the understand... and now another one.... how is the aluminium
cover attached to the ring?.. do not worry, something is going to come
to my mind.....
Thank you very much Dan.
Regards.
--------
Mario Giacummo
http://vgmk1.blogspot.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371074#371074
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Inspection rings |
Mario,
They are made to fit the inspection ring and are held by spring
pressure. The round ones are a standard size.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/de-nonslipcovers.php
-john-
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2424 American Lane
Madison, WI 53704
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
On Apr 17, 2012, at 1:24 PM, giacummo wrote:
<mario.giacummo@gmail.com>
>
> Yes, that was what i try the understand... and now another one.... how
is the aluminium cover attached to the ring?.. do not worry, something
is going to come to my mind.....
>
> Thank you very much Dan.
>
> Regards.
>
> --------
> Mario Giacummo
> http://vgmk1.blogspot.com
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371074#371074
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: 787 differences training |
It's a slippery slope!
One mans 'off topic' is another mans 'on topic'.
It was aviation related, it came from a Pilot originally. Just hit delete and move
on.....
Regards
Gerry
do not archive
Be kind it's my 65th Birthday today! Damn....that's off topic.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: OT The other end of the performance envelope. 787 |
I did the type of checkride he mentions in an Airbus A330 on the SAME DAY I soloed
a Pietenpol for the first time, which was also my first solo in a taildragger
and the first time I soloed a light civil airplane since 1983... That definitely
highlighted the differences.
Probably not surprisingly, I found the Piet solo to be a lot more challenging.
All the important decisions are left up to to your own lonesome self in the light
civil arena. No load control to help make sure it's legal, no dispatch checking
the weather, route, etc., no maintenance control and monster technical
operations center to help you decide if the plane is ready or not.
I even had to decide for myself if I was ready to fly it! No battery of instructors,
check airmen and feds making that decision for me.
Interesting reading. As incredible as it sounds (and is), that arena STILL doesn't
have all the resources available to a Piet pilot and a well equipped iPad...
Havn't been able to find the picture to save my soul, but my favorite Pietenpol
pic of all times was a picture of a classic Piet next to a B2 bomber. The caption
read something like: "next to the Piet I built my son, is the B2 my son
built..." I guess he was an engineer on the project and they managed to set
up the photo op when he delivered it to him. Again, both ends of the spectrum
sitting right next to each other.
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371078#371078
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: 787 differences training |
Interesting, I was pretty much told in so many words if I was tired of or
had a problem with a certain thread to no look/ don't and or don't read
them as many other people found them interesting and educational. I am
assuming that same advice holds true for all of us/ those that find themselves
faced with much of similar situations. Especially as some readers may find
the topic interesting and worthy of reading since it is aviation related and
at the far end of the flight spectrum from the Piet, Cub, Champ, T craft
and several other hundred aircraft.
Are we moving from beating the dead horse to beating the jockey also? Just
an observation that may also be worthy of a prolonged and inane debate
Do Not Archive
John
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: considering a piet build |
Gardner
850-537-5380
do not archive
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
thru covering and painting, now in final assembly
21" wheels
Lycoming O-235 C2C
Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371080#371080
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: 787 differences training |
=46rom the "Book of Waldo" when encountering these trying situations:
"Smile son! Never disconcert the masses."
Thus endeth the lesson.
Do Not Archive
-john-
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2424 American Lane
Madison, WI 53704
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
On Apr 17, 2012, at 1:37 PM, AMsafetyC@aol.com wrote:
> Interesting, I was pretty much told in so many words if I was tired of
or had a problem with a certain thread to no look/ don't and or don't
read them as many other people found them interesting and educational.
I am assuming that same advice holds true for all of us/ those that find
themselves faced with much of similar situations. Especially as some
readers may find the topic interesting and worthy of reading since it is
aviation related and at the far end of the flight spectrum from the
Piet, Cub, Champ, T craft and several other hundred aircraft.
>
> Are we moving from beating the dead horse to beating the jockey also?
Just an observation that may also be worthy of a prolonged and inane
debate
>
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
> John
>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Inspection rings |
I thought they where different things..... thank you.
--------
Mario Giacummo
http://vgmk1.blogspot.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371081#371081
Message 25
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| Subject: | Temperature Gauges W/O Electrical System |
Guys,
I am trying to figure out which temperature gauges (CHT & Oil) I can use that do
not require electricity to operate since I am using an A-65F without an electrical
system. I see a VDO CHT gauge advertised in Aircraft Spruce that says
it does not need electricity unless you want the unit lighted. I do not see a
similar note under any of the oil temp gauges. They all just say that they need
12VDC. The VDO web site did not help any since it seems to indicate that
all their gauges need voltage to operate.
Any recommendations on particular gauges or brands that have worked well?
Thanks,
--------
David Gallagher
Zodiac 601 XL-B: flying, 200+ hours now
Next project under construction: Aircamper
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371082#371082
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: 787 differences training |
Googling the first line of the missive....this friend is also a friend of
some guy named Dave @yellowbullet.com, and Marty
@ambergriscaye.com......Ambergris Caye....Belize....the Fisherman....
A friend of my friend of random BS forwards!
Ryan
do not archive
On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 8:44 AM, <helspersew@aol.com> wrote:
> An appropriate and responsible response from our resident T.C. Good
> show!!!
>
> Dan Helsper
> Puryear, TN
>
> do not archive
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lawrence Williams <lnawms@yahoo.com>
> To: Pietlist <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:32 am
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: 787 differences training
>
> Can't figure out why anyone would consider putting that post on the
> Pietenpol website. Many of us are flying Air Campers to escape such things
> and to get back to the simple and purely joyful era of true flying.
>
> I can attest that your lengthy quote was NOT from a pilot but from a
> "cockpit resource manager" and cluttering up the Piet site with things like
> that might be entertaining for some but how about just sending a link next
> time and don't forget to add the obligatory...
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> at the end.
>
> Larry W.
> T.C.
>
> *
>
> " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> p://forums.matronics.com
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Temperature Gauges W/O Electrical System |
David
I have a non electric A75-8. The Oil Temperature is some form of capillary to Oil
Pressure mount at rear of engine. Works well.
Gerry
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Temperature Gauges W/O Electrical System |
I have gauges from AS on my A-65. I think they are Mitchell. Look closely a
t the AS cataloge. You will find a page or two of thier guages. But only tw
o are for none electric
Dave
Dave Nielsen
sentuchows@aol.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Gerry Holland <gholland@content-stream.co.uk>
Sent: Tue, Apr 17, 2012 2:57 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Temperature Gauges W/O Electrical System
m.co.uk>
David
have a non electric A75-8. The Oil Temperature is some form of capillary t
o
il Pressure mount at rear of engine. Works well.
erry
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
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-
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-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
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-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Temperature Gauges W/O Electrical System |
David
I think I have this Oil Pressure Gauge.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/oilpress3.php
You need to ensure it comes with capillary tube and bulb to fit into rear of engine.
Gerry
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Temperature Gauges W/O Electrical System |
I just faced this problem on the 1920'ish Standard J1 biplane I'm helping to restore
in Oshkosh. It runs an old water cooled V8 without an electrical system,
a Hisso I think.
Anyway, was was installed during a 1970's restore was a old Stewart Warner oil
temp gage that had that capillary tube arrangement. I see them in A/C Spruce.
While it says oil temp, it will work and the temp range is about correct.
However, years ago I found a company in Albuquerque NM called MoMa. They restore
ALL SORTS of gages and know about everything about them. If you want them
to fix a tach gage, they want the tach cable sent along so it can be properly
fit, etc. Also, their prices were about half of everywhere else.
So I called them up about this water temp gage. The owner of the company usually
answers the phone, a very nice lady Ms. Lucas. I explained what we wanted
and she found a perfect vintage Stewart Warner WATER temp gage and fit the length
of capillary tube to it we needed for the J1. Did this in under a week.
If you have ANY gage stuff you need done, they are clearly worth checking with.
The weirder the problem (like fixing a neat old auto speedometer to make a airplane
tach), the better they will sound. They'll even do custom silkscreening
of the gage face if you want.
Just google MoMa and Albuquerque and you'll find them.
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371089#371089
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| Subject: | Stitch question... |
Would it be generally accepted as "ok" to go ahead and stitch around the diagonal
in the attached? And leave the cord laying against the diagonal? This is
one of the middle ribs on the horiz stab. And it doesn't move like a cable would.
Shouldn't be any movement between the diagonal brace and the cord. So can
I get by with just running the waxed cord around it and tightening up?
There's just not much clearance in that area but I can just stich around the rib
if needed....
(Hope this makes sense....)
Jim in Pryor
Message 32
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| Subject: | Thank you....: Need some help....off topic... |
Wow, I got a HUGE response (mostly offline, thank you!) from my request.
Not sure if this is actually going to happen or not but I sure do appreciate all
the great feedback. I am in a MUCH better position know how to proceed and
some important things to watch out for. And all this time I was thinking I could
just "prop it and go fly"!! (just kidding)
I've tried to respond directly to all the offers of help but probably forgot someone....so
THANK you all!
Jim in Pryor....
-----Forwarded Message-----
>From: Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
>Sent: Apr 14, 2012 6:13 PM
>To: Pietenpol List <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Need some help....off topic...
>
>A pilot friend passed on about a year (or two) ago and his Champ has just been
sitting...his daughter owns it now....it's on a grass strip about a mile from
us.
>
>I've recommended to her that we at least pull it out of the hangar and start it
from time to time. And she's fine with me taking it up if I want. (Of course
I'm fine with that!). Mainly I hate to see it waste away...and it will if
we don't do something.
>
>So do we just start propping to get it started or is there some process we need
to follow for an aircraft that's been sitting for so long?
>
>Sorry for such an "off topic" request but....well....maybe this could lead to
me getting some tailwheel time (yes, I know, ONLY after getting some tailwheel
training...) but that might make me a better Piet pilot, right? :-)
>
>If someone has experience with such and could tell me what to watch for and give
some pointers it would be appreciated.
>
>Offlist please.
>
>Thanks,
>Jim in Pryor (where the storms might pass us by this time....)
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | never mind.... Stitch question... |
Just answered my own question. Went out to the shop and bent/hammered/drilled
a small curved needle.
Worked just fine. And didn't have to lay the cord up against the diagonal brace...didn't
want to do that anyway.
(And yes, I know, the holes don't line up with the lines...those were the original
lines and somehow they didn't line up with each other, I'm still not sure
why. So I made a template and punched the holes from the template...all in line
with each other.)
Next time I'll think about it some more before firing off an email...(no, I probably
won't).
JM
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
>Sent: Apr 17, 2012 2:37 PM
>To: Pietenpol List <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Stitch question...
>
>Would it be generally accepted as "ok" to go ahead and stitch around the diagonal
in the attached? And leave the cord laying against the diagonal? This is
one of the middle ribs on the horiz stab. And it doesn't move like a cable would.
Shouldn't be any movement between the diagonal brace and the cord. So
can I get by with just running the waxed cord around it and tightening up?
>
>There's just not much clearance in that area but I can just stich around the rib
if needed....
>
>(Hope this makes sense....)
>
>Jim in Pryor
>
Message 34
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|
| Subject: | Re: Stitch question... |
If memory serves, some haven't rib stitched the tail feathers at all (just glued
down?) and flown without incident so rib stitching may be sort of a belt and
suspenders deal for aircraft this slow. 43-13 1b does seem to mandate rib stitching
on "control surfaces" so it's probably wise. The way I read 43-13, the
spacing should be a maximum of 5 inches (twice slipstream spacing) so you should
only need 4 stitches (first one 2 1/2 inches from leading edge, then 3 more
stitches at 4 to 5 inch spacing, then 2 1/2 to trailing edge) per feather.
I would think with the 5 inch max spacing, you could put the stitch on either
side of the diagonal and problem solved.
Having said all that, you should be able to do what you propose without a problem.
The only issue is if you pull it real tight, you might elongate the hole
in the fabric as the lacing tries to straighten itself but it wouldn't be much
and the seam tape should cover any cosmetic issues. That or you'd have one lace
that was a little diagonal over the cap strip.
Hope this helps
Dave
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371099#371099
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| Subject: | to post or not to post....that is the question |
FIRST off-WELCOME to the new folks on the list. I didn't read all the pos
ts but sounds like
the new folks are getting some outstanding advice about Pietenpols and what
all the build options
are. (endless pretty much)
And let's not all get our panties in a bunch (even you Larry even though yo
u're Top Curmudgeon:) but
I do like when you get testy...you're so polished at it!) over little crap
-who cares, this is a great list
-let's keep it that way.
We don't need to be telling each other what they can post or not. We're a
dults, use your best
judgment and be kind, not cutting or crass. If you feel like venting hi
t the golf range or batting cages
or find the nearest cat. Okay I like dogs, period. You can't trust cat
s.
We can keep this fun, classy and not get anyone's undies in a bunch.
Okay, now where did I put that A-380 article I was going to post for Larry
Willams? :)!
Mike C.
do not archive
SMOKE ON!
[cid:image003.jpg@01CD1CC3.834FD4E0]
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Temperature Gauges W/O Electrical System |
The Mitchell mechanical gauge is part # 10-02706 A.S. catalogue. Westach GH
T part# is 2A1. part number for the sender is 712-5W AHHHH I think.
Dave
Dave Nielsen
sentuchows@aol.com
-----Original Message-----
From: DaveG601XL <david.m.gallagher@ge.com>
Sent: Tue, Apr 17, 2012 2:49 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Temperature Gauges W/O Electrical System
m>
Guys,
I am trying to figure out which temperature gauges (CHT & Oil) I can use th
at do
ot require electricity to operate since I am using an A-65F without an
lectrical system. I see a VDO CHT gauge advertised in Aircraft Spruce that
ays it does not need electricity unless you want the unit lighted. I do no
t
ee a similar note under any of the oil temp gauges. They all just say that
hey need 12VDC. The VDO web site did not help any since it seems to indica
te
hat all their gauges need voltage to operate.
Any recommendations on particular gauges or brands that have worked well?
Thanks,
--------
avid Gallagher
odiac 601 XL-B: flying, 200+ hours now
ext project under construction: Aircamper
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371082#371082
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
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Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: 787 differences training |
I rather enjoyed the read.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
From: AMsafetyC@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: 787 differences training
Interesting=2C I was pretty much told in so many words if I was tired of or
had a problem with a certain thread to no look/ don't and or don't read th
em as many other people found them interesting and educational. I am assum
ing that same advice holds true for all of us/ those that find themselves f
aced with much of similar situations. Especially as some readers may find t
he topic interesting and worthy of reading since it is aviation related and
at the far end of the flight spectrum from the Piet=2C Cub=2C Champ=2C T c
raft and several other hundred aircraft.
Are we moving from beating the dead horse to beating the jockey also? Just
an observation that may also be worthy of a prolonged and inane debate
Do Not Archive
John
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Temperature Gauges W/O Electrical System |
Oil temp gauge as follows:
Aircraft Spruce # 10-00954
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/scottoiltemp.php
--------
Adrian M
Winnipeg, MB
Canada
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371105#371105
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/oil_temp_sensor_145.jpg
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Temperature Gauges W/O Electrical System |
My oil pressure and oil temperature gauges came from Advance Auto
Parts. The capillary tube for the "water temp" gauge was long enough to
reach, and it came with adapters that enabled me to screw it into the
end of the Oil screen cover. The pressure gauge has a 1/8 metal tube
with flare fittings. Both seem to work fine. They are a little smaller
than standard aircraft instruments.
Ben
On 4/17/2012 2:49 PM, DaveG601XL wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DaveG601XL"<david.m.gallagher@ge.com>
>
> Guys,
>
> I am trying to figure out which temperature gauges (CHT& Oil) I can use that
do not require electricity to operate since I am using an A-65F without an electrical
system. I see a VDO CHT gauge advertised in Aircraft Spruce that says
it does not need electricity unless you want the unit lighted. I do not see
a similar note under any of the oil temp gauges. They all just say that they
need 12VDC. The VDO web site did not help any since it seems to indicate that
all their gauges need voltage to operate.
>
> Any recommendations on particular gauges or brands that have worked well?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --------
> David Gallagher
> Zodiac 601 XL-B: flying, 200+ hours now
> Next project under construction: Aircamper
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371082#371082
>
>
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
Message 40
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Off topic, but has anyone done spins in the pietenpol? Just in case I get
caught in an overcast.. Who knows. I might go into rolls and
loops. I haven't heard of any G limits for the bernie planes. Gardiner Mason
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: to post or not to post....that is the question |
Thumbs up! That is all
Kyle
--------
Airspeed, altitude or brains: Two are always needed to successfully complete the
flight.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371111#371111
Message 42
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| Subject: | Horizontal stab end pieces |
Hey guys, I will try to keep this short. Trying to determine if the plans are telling
me to put main beam or leading edge on the horizontal stab end pieces.
I am probably over thinking this. Just wondering what others did.
Thanks
Kyle
--------
Airspeed, altitude or brains: Two are always needed to successfully complete the
flight.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371112#371112
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: Horizontal stab end pieces |
Kyle,
I used the leading edge dimensions on the ends, but downsized toward the trailing
edge, for a smooth transition.
Gary from Cool
Happy building!
------Original Message------
From: Kyle85
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
ReplyTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Horizontal stab end pieces
Sent: Apr 17, 2012 7:34 PM
Hey guys, I will try to keep this short. Trying to determine if the plans are telling
me to put main beam or leading edge on the horizontal stab end pieces.
I am probably over thinking this. Just wondering what others did.
Thanks
Kyle
--------
Airspeed, altitude or brains: Two are always needed to successfully complete the
flight.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371112#371112
Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry
Message 44
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| Subject: | Horizontal stab end pieces |
This is what I used
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Chris%20Tracy/images/Tail_Wood_Piece_Locatio
n.jpg
But what the heck do I know, my plane is not finished
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kyle85
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 7:35 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Horizontal stab end pieces
Hey guys, I will try to keep this short. Trying to determine if the plans
are telling me to put main beam or leading edge on the horizontal stab end
pieces. I am probably over thinking this. Just wondering what others did.
Thanks
Kyle
--------
Airspeed, altitude or brains: Two are always needed to successfully complete
the flight.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371112#371112
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: Horizontal stab end pieces |
Do you have a pilot's license, Chris?;)
do not archive
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/San Marcos, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371121#371121
Message 46
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| Subject: | considering a piet build |
I don't really have much to add in the Cub-vs-Air Camper thread
except to slightly modify what someone (Jack-?) said about the
"glide". I consider this to be a plus for the Piet. I always
found that my most tense moments flying the Cub (and Super Cub)
were those last few seconds (felt like hours) waiting for the
mains to touch, riding the float down the runway, endlessly. I
know, I know- it's all about airspeed control and that meant I
was carrying a little too much airspeed- but still, I like the
fact that I can bring the Piet down on a straight-line final all
the way to the numbers and then plunk it down with minimal float.
It's a nice short field performer, in my book. I also agree that
adding wingspan also adds weight... not a good thing for Piets.
Closing comment: pay no attention to posts from one "Kevin Purtee",
a questionable guy that we put up with here out of kindness. He says
his family is dysfunctional, but he's referring to himself, not
his better half or any of us. And he belittles those of us who
did not build our own Piets, but who fly them anyway. I think of
Scout (my Air Camper) as an adopted child, one that I love by
choice. "Fat Bottom Girl", Kevin's airplane by birth and upbringing,
has no choice but to live in a dysfunctional household.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket"
Medford/Ashland, OR
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: Horizontal stab end pieces |
The important thing is that the gussets make full glue surface contact with the
adjacent pieces. Since the airfoil properties aren't critical, sandpaper can
fix everything else. Sort of a variation of the old military axiom "file to
fit, paint to match".
Dave Aldrich
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371125#371125
Message 48
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Seems like there was a thread about this some time ago and the consensus was don't
unless you have a parachute.
AC 90-89A has a test procedure if you want to try it.
Originally, g limits were found by piling sandbags on the wing until it failed
and calculating g limits limit from that. Convention was that permanent deformation
occurred at 1.5 times the "normal" limit so if the wing failed at the equivalent
loading of 6 g's, then the normal g limit would be 4. I don't think
the good Mr Pietenpol, or anyone else for that matter, has sandbagged a wing
so if you REALLY want to know, build two wings and get a LOT of sandbags.
Dave Aldrich
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371128#371128
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