Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Wed 04/18/12


Total Messages Posted: 58



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 03:57 AM - Re: Temperature Gauges W/O Electrical System (DaveG601XL)
     2. 04:00 AM - spinning a Piet (Douwe Blumberg)
     3. 04:25 AM - Re: considering a piet build (jarheadpilot82)
     4. 04:45 AM - Re: spins (womenfly2)
     5. 04:48 AM - Re: considering a piet build (womenfly2)
     6. 04:57 AM - Re: spins (jarheadpilot82)
     7. 05:05 AM - spins, TGWP (helspersew@aol.com)
     8. 06:12 AM - Re: spins, TGWP (Amsafetyc)
     9. 06:13 AM - Re: spinning a Piet (TOM STINEMETZE)
    10. 06:19 AM - Re: Re: spins (Amsafetyc)
    11. 06:29 AM - Re: Re: spins (airlion)
    12. 08:41 AM - Re: Re: spins (ellery voge)
    13. 08:54 AM - Re: Re: spins (Gerry Holland)
    14. 09:15 AM - Re: considering a piet build (nightmare)
    15. 09:31 AM - Re: Re: spins (Ryan Mueller)
    16. 09:35 AM - Re: Re: spins (Steve Emo)
    17. 09:39 AM - piet pics (nightmare)
    18. 09:56 AM - Re: piet pics (Michael Perez)
    19. 09:58 AM - Re: piet pics (Jack@textors.com)
    20. 10:01 AM - Re: piet pics (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
    21. 10:10 AM - Re: piet pics (helspersew@aol.com)
    22. 11:23 AM - Re: 2. 04:23 AM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 46 Msgs - 04/16/12 (Sutton, Mark) (Sanders, Andrew P)
    23. 11:33 AM - Re: piet pics (Dan Yocum)
    24. 01:49 PM - Re: spins (jarheadpilot82)
    25. 02:26 PM - Re: piet pics (nightmare)
    26. 02:30 PM - Re: spins (Bill Church)
    27. 02:42 PM - Re: spins (jarheadpilot82)
    28. 03:10 PM - Re: Destructive Testing (gboothe5@comcast.net)
    29. 03:28 PM - Re: spins (Bill Church)
    30. 03:31 PM - Cub Style Wheel Option (Ryan M)
    31. 03:43 PM - Re: Cub Style Wheel Option (Ryan M)
    32. 03:49 PM - Re: Stitch question... (Gary Boothe)
    33. 03:55 PM - Re: Cub Style Wheel Option (Ryan M)
    34. 04:07 PM - Re: spins (kevinpurtee)
    35. 04:17 PM - Re: Destructive Testing (helspersew@aol.com)
    36. 04:19 PM - adhesive question (Bob edson)
    37. 04:22 PM - Re: Re: spins (airlion)
    38. 04:34 PM - Re: Re: spins (airlion)
    39. 04:36 PM - Re: adhesive question (airlion)
    40. 04:36 PM - Re: adhesive question (Jack Phillips)
    41. 04:54 PM - Re: spins (jarheadpilot82)
    42. 04:56 PM - Re: Re: spins (Ryan Mueller)
    43. 04:56 PM - Don't know (airlion)
    44. 04:56 PM - looks awesome! (j_dunavin)
    45. 04:57 PM - Re: Overkill... (j_dunavin)
    46. 05:13 PM - Re: Stitch question... (Jim Markle)
    47. 05:15 PM - Re: spins (jarheadpilot82)
    48. 05:47 PM - Re: Stitch question... (Jack)
    49. 05:51 PM - Re: Destructive Testing (Ryan Mueller)
    50. 05:53 PM - Re: Destructive Testing (Bill Church)
    51. 05:57 PM - Re: Re: Destructive Testing (Ryan Mueller)
    52. 06:16 PM - Re: spins (Bill Church)
    53. 06:50 PM - Re: Re: spins (airlion)
    54. 07:01 PM - Re: Re: spins (airlion)
    55. 08:00 PM - Re: Horizontal stab end pieces (Kyle85)
    56. 08:21 PM - Re: Don't know (Jack Phillips)
    57. 08:52 PM - Re: Don't know (taildrags)
    58. 11:50 PM - Re: piet pics (Clif Dawson)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 03:57:15 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Temperature Gauges W/O Electrical System
    From: "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher@ge.com>
    Thanks guys, this is exactly what I was looking for. -------- David Gallagher Zodiac 601 XL-B: flying, 200+ hours now Next project under construction: Aircamper Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371136#371136


    Message 2


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    Time: 04:00:13 AM PST US
    From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg@earthlink.net>
    Subject: spinning a Piet
    Always use Marvel Mystery Oil before you attempt to spin your Pietenpol, and make sure your handheld has enough range to clear the area by using a proper ground plane. Douwe


    Message 3


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    Time: 04:25:08 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: considering a piet build
    From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>
    Thanks, Dick, for the additional information. -------- Do Not Archive Semper Fi, Terry Hand Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371138#371138


    Message 4


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    Time: 04:45:31 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: spins
    From: "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP@gmail.com>
    DO NOT spin a Pietenpol, even if you have a parachute (by-the-way would not fit in the cockpit with a pilot anyway). If you have a catastrophic failure, you could not get out of the plane if you had to. -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371139#371139


    Message 5


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    Time: 04:48:27 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: considering a piet build
    From: "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP@gmail.com>
    Why would you want a Pietenpol if you have a Cub? Fly the Cub! -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371140#371140


    Message 6


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    Time: 04:57:15 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: spins
    From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>
    Gardiner, Dave discusses the point very well, but here are my thoughts. As this is an individually-built airplane, even if someone else tested their wings, unless you have tested yours, you really do not know the g limits. When someone gets in a conventionally-built airplane that is certified for spins or aerobatic maneuvers, you know that numerous engineers did a lot of figuring, and the airplane was built with the engineering, design, and destructive testing completed, as well as standardized methods of construction. People have said the Mr. Pietenpol "over designed" the airplane in many ways, but unless you have done specific testing on your methods of construction, I would not even think about intentionally doing those types of maneuvers. Well, at least not without a parachute. [Wink] I am in the process of building my ribs, so I am getting ready to sand bag test one of my ribs to destruction. I know that sand bag testing will not really give me a complete picture of the g limits, it will give me some comfort as to the relative strength of my ribs as well as the quality of my construction. Just my $0.02. -------- Do Not Archive Semper Fi, Terry Hand Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371141#371141


    Message 7


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    Time: 05:05:39 AM PST US
    Subject: spins, TGWP
    From: helspersew@aol.com
    "Now I'm talk'n about five dollars for the best day of your life" do not archive


    Message 8


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    Time: 06:12:02 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: spins, TGWP
    From: Amsafetyc <amsafetyc@aol.com>
    "what if I don't like it?" Do not archive Sent from my iPhone On Apr 18, 2012, at 8:04 AM, helspersew@aol.com wrote: > "Now I'm talk'n about five dollars for the best day of your life" > > do not archive > > >


    Message 9


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    Time: 06:13:38 AM PST US
    From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS@mcpcity.com>
    Subject: Re: spinning a Piet
    Douwe: You forgot to mention filling up all the voids with ping pong balls and/or milk jugs. For the energy absorption properties, of course. Stinemetze do not archive >>> "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg@earthlink.net> 4/18/2012 6:07 AM >>> Always use Marvel Mystery Oil before you attempt to spin your Pietenpol, and make sure your handheld has enough range to clear the area by using a proper ground plane Douwe


    Message 10


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    Time: 06:19:45 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: spins
    From: Amsafetyc <amsafetyc@aol.com>
    Terry, I would be interested in seeing your data in addition to how you are treating it in your overall calculations and finally your operating assumptions based upon that data. That is if you don't mind sharing, I would appreciate it. Thanks John Do not archive Sent from my iPhone On Apr 18, 2012, at 7:56 AM, "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Gardiner, > > Dave discusses the point very well, but here are my thoughts. > > As this is an individually-built airplane, even if someone else tested their wings, unless you have tested yours, you really do not know the g limits. When someone gets in a conventionally-built airplane that is certified for spins or aerobatic maneuvers, you know that numerous engineers did a lot of figuring, and the airplane was built with the engineering, design, and destructive testing completed, as well as standardized methods of construction. People have said the Mr. Pietenpol "over designed" the airplane in many ways, but unless you have done specific testing on your methods of construction, I would not even think about intentionally doing those types of maneuvers. Well, at least not without a parachute. [Wink] > > I am in the process of building my ribs, so I am getting ready to sand bag test one of my ribs to destruction. I know that sand bag testing will not really give me a complete picture of the g limits, it will give me some comfort as to the relative strength of my ribs as well as the quality of my construction. > > Just my $0.02. > > -------- > Do Not Archive > > Semper Fi, > > Terry Hand > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371141#371141 > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 11


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    Time: 06:29:32 AM PST US
    From: airlion <airlion@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: spins
    Terry, I don't know what sandbagging a rib will accomplish because it is not really strong untill it is a wing. I do know that my new ribs of spruce are much stronger than my old ribs of cedar. Cheers, Gardiner ----- Original Message ---- From: Amsafetyc <amsafetyc@aol.com> Sent: Wed, April 18, 2012 9:18:24 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: spins Terry, I would be interested in seeing your data in addition to how you are treating it in your overall calculations and finally your operating assumptions based upon that data. That is if you don't mind sharing, I would appreciate it. Thanks John Do not archive Sent from my iPhone On Apr 18, 2012, at 7:56 AM, "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com> wrote: ><jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com> > > Gardiner, > > Dave discusses the point very well, but here are my thoughts. > > As this is an individually-built airplane, even if someone else tested their >wings, unless you have tested yours, you really do not know the g limits. When >someone gets in a conventionally-built airplane that is certified for spins or >aerobatic maneuvers, you know that numerous engineers did a lot of figuring, and >the airplane was built with the engineering, design, and destructive testing >completed, as well as standardized methods of construction. People have said the >Mr. Pietenpol "over designed" the airplane in many ways, but unless you have >done specific testing on your methods of construction, I would not even think >about intentionally doing those types of maneuvers. Well, at least not without a >parachute. [Wink] > > I am in the process of building my ribs, so I am getting ready to sand bag test >one of my ribs to destruction. I know that sand bag testing will not really give >me a complete picture of the g limits, it will give me some comfort as to the >relative strength of my ribs as well as the quality of my construction. > > Just my $0.02. > > -------- > Do Not Archive > > Semper Fi, > > Terry Hand > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371141#371141 > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 12


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    Time: 08:41:09 AM PST US
    From: ellery voge <elleryvoge@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Re: spins
    If you have ever been in a spin ( any airplane) spinning a piet. would neve r be considered. > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: spins > From: amsafetyc@aol.com > Date: Wed=2C 18 Apr 2012 09:18:24 -0400 > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > Terry=2C > > I would be interested in seeing your data in addition to how you are trea ting it in your overall calculations and finally your operating assumptions based upon that data. That is if you don't mind sharing=2C I would appreci ate it. > > Thanks > > John > > Do not archive > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Apr 18=2C 2012=2C at 7:56 AM=2C "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82@hotma il.com> wrote: > hotmail.com> > > > > Gardiner=2C > > > > Dave discusses the point very well=2C but here are my thoughts. > > > > As this is an individually-built airplane=2C even if someone else teste d their wings=2C unless you have tested yours=2C you really do not know the g limits. When someone gets in a conventionally-built airplane that is cer tified for spins or aerobatic maneuvers=2C you know that numerous engineers did a lot of figuring=2C and the airplane was built with the engineering =2C design=2C and destructive testing completed=2C as well as standardized methods of construction. People have said the Mr. Pietenpol "over designed" the airplane in many ways=2C but unless you have done specific testing on your methods of construction=2C I would not even think about intentionally doing those types of maneuvers. Well=2C at least not without a parachute. [ Wink] > > > > I am in the process of building my ribs=2C so I am getting ready to san d bag test one of my ribs to destruction. I know that sand bag testing will not really give me a complete picture of the g limits=2C it will give me s ome comfort as to the relative strength of my ribs as well as the quality o f my construction. > > > > Just my $0.02. > > > > -------- > > Do Not Archive > > > > Semper Fi=2C > > > > Terry Hand > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371141#371141 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > >


    Message 13


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    Time: 08:54:04 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: spins
    From: Gerry Holland <gholland@content-stream.co.uk>
    I think spinning a Pietenpol or on that matter any of the early homebuilts needs VERY careful consideration. My Corben Junior is 50+ years old and with a 4130 fuselage frame should be ok. The wings are still wood though! When I learnt to fly in the 60's spinning was an important part of the mid point syllabus and had to be demonstrated left and right during flight test. It gained an air of trepidation but in fact once mastered and demonstrated on test felt very worthwhile. Spinning for the sake of it.... no thanks. Knowing how to respond in such a flight condition is worth it. The one point to make though is that many who knew how to recover still came to grief because when it happened for real they were often to low, probably on that base leg section or steep climb out. Go spin in something aerobatic! Regards Gerry do no archive


    Message 14


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    Time: 09:15:37 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: considering a piet build
    From: "nightmare" <pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com>
    had a cub, sold it 10 years ago when lost previous flying job. actually won it in the usaerobatic foundation raffle. flew it from oshkosh to south florida. your gonna make me cry now. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371162#371162


    Message 15


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    Time: 09:31:01 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: spins
    From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com>
    You're going to need some tractor weights for this pointless exercise.... Ryan do not archive On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 6:56 AM, jarheadpilot82 <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>wrote: > jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com> > > Gardiner, > > Dave discusses the point very well, but here are my thoughts. > > As this is an individually-built airplane, even if someone else tested > their wings, unless you have tested yours, you really do not know the g > limits. When someone gets in a conventionally-built airplane that is > certified for spins or aerobatic maneuvers, you know that numerous > engineers did a lot of figuring, and the airplane was built with the > engineering, design, and destructive testing completed, as well as > standardized methods of construction. People have said the Mr. Pietenpol > "over designed" the airplane in many ways, but unless you have done > specific testing on your methods of construction, I would not even think > about intentionally doing those types of maneuvers. Well, at least not > without a parachute. [Wink] > > I am in the process of building my ribs, so I am getting ready to sand bag > test one of my ribs to destruction. I know that sand bag testing will not > really give me a complete picture of the g limits, it will give me some > comfort as to the relative strength of my ribs as well as the quality of my > construction. > > Just my $0.02. > > -------- > Do Not Archive > > Semper Fi, > > Terry Hand > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371141#371141 > >


    Message 16


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    Time: 09:35:55 AM PST US
    From: Steve Emo <steve.emo58@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: spins
    I second that. Isn't it easier, safer, and cheaper just to keep the ball in the center? Steve On Apr 18, 2012, at 11:40 AM, ellery voge <elleryvoge@hotmail.com> wrote: > If you have ever been in a spin ( any airplane) spinning a piet. would nev er be considered. > > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: spins > > From: amsafetyc@aol.com > > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 09:18:24 -0400 > > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > > > > Terry, > > > > I would be interested in seeing your data in addition to how you are tre ating it in your overall calculations and finally your operating assumptions based upon that data. That is if you don't mind sharing, I would appreciate it. > > > > Thanks > > > > John > > > > Do not archive > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Apr 18, 2012, at 7:56 AM, "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.co m> wrote: > > @hotmail.com> > > > > > > Gardiner, > > > > > > Dave discusses the point very well, but here are my thoughts. > > > > > > As this is an individually-built airplane, even if someone else tested their wings, unless you have tested yours, you really do not know the g lim its. When someone gets in a conventionally-built airplane that is certified f or spins or aerobatic maneuvers, you know that numerous engineers did a lot o f figuring, and the airplane was built with the engineering, design, and des tructive testing completed, as well as standardized methods of construction. People have said the Mr. Pietenpol "over designed" the airplane in many way s, but unless you have done specific testing on your methods of construction , I would not even think about intentionally doing those types of maneuvers. Well, at least not without a parachute. [Wink] > > > > > > I am in the process of building my ribs, so I am getting ready to sand bag test one of my ribs to destruction. I know that sand bag testing will n ot really give me a complete picture of the g limits, it will give me some c omfort as to the relative strength of my ribs as well as the quality of my c onstruction. > > > > > > Just my $0.02. > > > > > > -------- > > > Do Not Archive > > > > > > Semper Fi, > > > > > > Terry Hand > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371141#371141 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, > >======================= > > > > > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= >


    Message 17


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    Time: 09:39:55 AM PST US
    Subject: piet pics
    From: "nightmare" <pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com>
    just looking for maybe a link for a bunch of piet pics in one place. or maybe whoever reads this can include their Piet pic. thanks; Paul Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371164#371164


    Message 18


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    Time: 09:56:02 AM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: piet pics
    The West Coast Piet. website has a ton of pictures. For my personal in work photos, see the link below. I can send pictures of specific part/components if interested. Michael Perez Pietenpol HINT Videos Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com


    Message 19


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    Time: 09:58:58 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: piet pics
    From: "Jack@textors.com" <jack@textors.com>
    http://textors.com/PietProject.html Jack Textor Sent from my iPad On Apr 18, 2012, at 11:39 AM, "nightmare" <pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com> wrote: > > just looking for maybe a link for a bunch of piet pics in one place. or maybe whoever reads this can include their Piet pic. thanks; Paul > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371164#371164 > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 20


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    Time: 10:01:56 AM PST US
    From: AMsafetyC@aol.com
    Subject: Re: piet pics
    If you wait till July you can get all the pics you want of any and every part you want in any power configuration you want. All you need to do is go to the Brodhead fly in. A field filled with Piets, Piet builders, wanna be fliers and liars. A veritable morgishgoard of Piets and Piets peoples Do not achieve this big secret This is flying weather, I can see by the number of people here today I'm gonna need lots of gas! Who would like a free ride? John


    Message 21


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    Time: 10:10:44 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: piet pics
    From: helspersew@aol.com
    "I never give rides to kids" do not archive -----Original Message----- From: AMsafetyC <AMsafetyC@aol.com> Sent: Wed, Apr 18, 2012 12:02 pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: piet pics If you wait till July you can get all the pics you want of any and every pa rt you want in any power configuration you want. All you need to do is go t o the Brodhead fly in. A field filled with Piets, Piet builders, wanna be f liers and liars. A veritable morgishgoard of Piets and Piets peoples Do not achieve this big secret This is flying weather, I can see by the number of people here today I'm go nna need lots of gas! Who would like a free ride? John -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -========================


    Message 22


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    Time: 11:23:33 AM PST US
    From: "Sanders, Andrew P" <andrew.p.sanders@boeing.com>
    Subject: Re: RE: 2. 04:23 AM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 46 Msgs -
    04/16/12 (Sutton, Mark) To paraphrase Dennis Farina in "Big Trouble": With all due respect, I ask in the nicest possible way, PLEASE don't reply and send the entire digest back to the digest! Thanks, Andrew ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:23:03 AM PST US From: "Sutton, Mark" <msutton@unitedwayatlanta.org> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 46 Msgs - 04/16/12 Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone ----- Reply message ----- From: "Pietenpol-List Digest Server" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List Digest: 46 Msgs - 04/16/12 *


    Message 23


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    Time: 11:33:53 AM PST US
    From: Dan Yocum <yocum137@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: piet pics
    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=pietenpol+pictures Junior Curmudgeon do not archive


    Message 24


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    Time: 01:49:16 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: spins
    From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>
    Matronics Pietenpol-List Email Forum (pietenpol-list@matronics.com) The classic Pietenpol Air Camper forum. Discussions include everything about this popular and classic design include building, [color=red]flying[/red} (emphasis is mine), engine sources, plans, flyins, and just talking with others interested in this great old design. _________________________________ The quotation above comes from the Matronics Email Lists forum Index. So, in light of that, Gardiner, I think that you are absolutely on topic by raising the question of intentional spins in a Pietenpol. I don't see this as a pointless exercise at all. I have made flying my career for more than 30 years, so although, I have little experience in construction and maintenance of airplanes, I do feel totally comfortable discussing, flying, flight training, and flight safety, among other things. It is great to fly this or any other airplane, but if you are not sensitive to and have a knowledge and understanding of such things as specific flight characteristics of the model of airplane being flown, aerodynamics, and more, then you may get yourself into a situation that you can't get out of. By way of example, that is what spin training is about, at least when I taught spins in the military. Yes, a student was graded on their entry procedures as well as their recovery procedures, but the exercise was designed not to teach how to spin, or necessarily on how to recover, but, rather, how to avoid a spin entry was the actual goal. By recognizing that, as Steve Emo put it, "Isn't it easier, safer, and cheaper just to keep the ball in the center?", and understanding how rapidly things can go wrong when you don't, it makes for a safer pilot. So, I do think a discussion of flying, and not just building, is exactly what this Forum is about. That is why I appreciate people like Dick Navratil and others who have experience with different weights, power plants, etc. that really help this Forum. Maybe that is my $0.04 worth. -------- Do Not Archive Semper Fi, Terry Hand Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371195#371195


    Message 25


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    Time: 02:26:23 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: piet pics
    From: "nightmare" <pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com>
    thanks jack, paul Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371198#371198


    Message 26


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    Time: 02:30:01 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: spins
    From: "Bill Church" <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
    Terry, I think Ryan's comment was in regards to sand bag testing a wing rib to the point of destruction, as opposed to the discussion about spins. There was a lively and fairly entertaining discussion about this same topic (rib testing) a few years ago - that's where the reference to tractor weights comes from. There may have also been an elephant involved. The Pietenpol wing rib is a robust little structure. I don't think anyone has to worry about the ribs failing (if properly constructed). I'm not sure what knowledge would be gained from testing a rib to the point of destruction. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371199#371199


    Message 27


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    Time: 02:42:15 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: spins
    From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>
    Bill, My reason for doing some form of sandbag testing was simply to see if my construction abilities were good enough that I would be willing to fly under a wing for which I had built the ribs. It is not to prove the soundness of Mr. Pietenpol's airfoil (or anyone else's for that better), but rather to prove (at least to me) that the construction methods I used are sound. Call me a belt and suspenders guy, but I just like to know I am doing things correctly. Someone else may look at it differently. If testing my construction methods by the way I described is "pointless" and there is a better way of doing so, I would be happy to hear what that method is. I have generally found that it is a more positive experience for all if one can provide a better way of doing things, rather than to simply say something is "pointless." I am all ears if someone has a better suggestion. -------- Do Not Archive Semper Fi, Terry Hand Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371203#371203


    Message 28


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    Time: 03:10:12 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Destructive Testing
    From: gboothe5@comcast.net
    I'm certainly no aeronautical engineer, so I'm curious...what's an acceptable crush weight? What's unacceptable? Gary from Cool Do not archive ------Original Message------ From: jarheadpilot82 Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com ReplyTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: spins Sent: Apr 18, 2012 2:40 PM Bill, My reason for doing some form of sandbag testing was simply to see if my construction abilities were good enough that I would be willing to fly under a wing for which I had built the ribs. It is not to prove the soundness of Mr. Pietenpol's airfoil (or anyone else's for that better), but rather to prove (at least to me) that the construction methods I used are sound. Call me a belt and suspenders guy, but I just like to know I am doing things correctly. Someone else may look at it differently. If testing my construction methods by the way I described is "pointless" and there is a better way of doing so, I would be happy to hear what that method is. I have generally found that it is a more positive experience for all if one can provide a better way of doing things, rather than to simply say something is "pointless." I am all ears if someone has a better suggestion. -------- Do Not Archive Semper Fi, Terry Hand Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371203#371203 Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry


    Message 29


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    Time: 03:28:02 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: spins
    From: "Bill Church" <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
    Terry, If you just want to confirm the soundness of your construction abilities, why don't you just glue up a simple "T" made up of 2 pieces of 1/4" x 1/2" Sitka (or whatever wood you are building with), and gussets the same as you will use on your ribs. Allow the glue to fully cure, and then do a destructive test on that. Put it in a vise, and squeeze until it cracks. If the wood fails, you're "good to go". If the glue joints fail, you have reason to be concerned, since it's either your methods, or the adhesive that would be the reason for the glue joint to be the cause of failure. It's just that there's quite a bit of work involved in building an actual rib, and then you'd have to devise some sort of apparatus to hold and support the rib, and a method to distribute the weight, and acquire a bunch of sandbags, and on and on... so that, in the end, you'll be able to say that your rib supported "X" pounds (under the specific conditions that you tested it) before failing. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371207#371207


    Message 30


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    Time: 03:31:38 PM PST US
    From: Ryan M <aircamperace@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Cub Style Wheel Option
    What are the options to the Cub style wheels? I can find wheels but the-e xpander-tubes and master cyls are hard to come by and the Grove conversio n is very expensive. - I like the "balloon" look of the Cubs 10x4's, what are my other options?=0A=0ARyan M


    Message 31


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    Time: 03:43:04 PM PST US
    From: Ryan M <aircamperace@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Cub Style Wheel Option
    8x4=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Ryan M <aircamperace@ yahoo.com>=0ATo: "pietenpol-list@matronics.com" <pietenpol-list@matronics.c om> =0ASent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 6:31 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: C ub Style Wheel Option=0A =0A=0AWhat are the options to the Cub style wheels ? I can find wheels but the-expander-tubes and master cyls are hard to come by and the Grove conversion is very expensive. - I like the "balloon ==============


    Message 32


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    Time: 03:49:16 PM PST US
    From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: Stitch question...
    Jim, I know you resolved this, but, you know that you are allowed to move the stitch to avoid framing members...right? Gary from Cool NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 12:38 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stitch question... Would it be generally accepted as "ok" to go ahead and stitch around the diagonal in the attached? And leave the cord laying against the diagonal? This is one of the middle ribs on the horiz stab. And it doesn't move like a cable would. Shouldn't be any movement between the diagonal brace and the cord. So can I get by with just running the waxed cord around it and tightening up? There's just not much clearance in that area but I can just stich around the rib if needed.... (Hope this makes sense....) Jim in Pryor


    Message 33


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    Time: 03:55:09 PM PST US
    From: Ryan M <aircamperace@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Cub Style Wheel Option
    Has any one tried the8 x 6 carlisle turf glide experimental?=0A=0Ahttp://ww w.desser.com/store/products/800%252d6-4-PLY-CARLISLE-TURF-GLIDE-EXPERIMENTA L-TIRE-.html-=0A=0A=0ARyan M=0A=0A________________________________=0A Fro m: Ryan M <aircamperace@yahoo.com>=0ATo: "pietenpol-list@matronics.com" <pi etenpol-list@matronics.com> =0ASent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 6:31 PM=0ASu bject: Pietenpol-List: Cub Style Wheel Option=0A =0A=0AWhat are the options to the Cub style wheels? I can find wheels but the-expander-tubes and master cyls are hard to come by and the Grove conversion is very expensive. - I like the "balloon" look of the Cubs 10x4's, what are my other option ======================


    Message 34


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    Time: 04:07:19 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: spins
    From: "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>
    Back to Gardiner: y'all realize he's a former Marine SPAD driver, a retired airline pilot with ~30,000 hours, and he flies the tar out of a Cessna 140, right? do not archive and go back to breaking those ribs -------- Kevin &quot;Axel&quot; Purtee NX899KP Austin/San Marcos, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371212#371212


    Message 35


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    Time: 04:17:13 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Destructive Testing
    From: helspersew@aol.com
    Gary, It is my understanding that if your rib can withstand a small elephant stan ding upon it, then that is the standard for acceptable rib crush strength. Maybe someone here can illustrate this concept so we can all understand a l ittle better. Dan Helsper do not archive -----Original Message----- From: gboothe5 <gboothe5@comcast.net> Sent: Wed, Apr 18, 2012 5:10 pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Destructive Testing I'm certainly no aeronautical engineer, so I'm curious...what's an acceptab le rush weight? What's unacceptable? Gary from Cool o not archive -----Original Message------ rom: jarheadpilot82 ender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com o: pietenpol-list@matronics.com eplyTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com ubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: spins ent: Apr 18, 2012 2:40 PM ail.com> Bill, My reason for doing some form of sandbag testing was simply to see if my onstruction abilities were good enough that I would be willing to fly under a ing for which I had built the ribs. It is not to prove the soundness of Mr. ietenpol's airfoil (or anyone else's for that better), but rather to prove (at east to me) that the construction methods I used are sound. Call me a belt and uspenders guy, but I just like to know I am doing things correctly. Someone lse may look at it differently. If testing my construction methods by the way I described is "pointless" a nd here is a better way of doing so, I would be happy to hear what that method is. have generally found that it is a more positive experience for all if one can rovide a better way of doing things, rather than to simply say something is pointless." I am all ears if someone has a better suggestion. -------- o Not Archive Semper Fi, Terry Hand ead this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371203#371203 Sent on the Sprint=C2=AE Now Network from my BlackBerry=C2=AE -======================== -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -========================


    Message 36


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    Time: 04:19:06 PM PST US
    From: "Bob edson" <robertse@centurytel.net>
    Subject: adhesive question
    I connected the cables to the rudder and elevators and all works good. I cut leather pieces to cover the openings in the fabric where the cables exit and now what adhesive is best for this attachment.Thanks for any information. Bob


    Message 37


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    Time: 04:22:30 PM PST US
    From: airlion <airlion@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: spins
    Thanks for the reply Terry. The last time I was in a spin was in an SNJ in pensacola, I would really like to know if ANYONE has been in a spin in a piet. I don't intend to try it but would like to know how it handled. Where do you live Terry?. I am in Buckhead. ----- Original Message ---- From: jarheadpilot82 <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com> Sent: Wed, April 18, 2012 4:47:10 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: spins <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com> Matronics Pietenpol-List Email Forum (pietenpol-list@matronics.com) The classic Pietenpol Air Camper forum. Discussions include everything about this popular and classic design include building, [color=red]flying[/red} (emphasis is mine), engine sources, plans, flyins, and just talking with others interested in this great old design. _________________________________ The quotation above comes from the Matronics Email Lists forum Index. So, in light of that, Gardiner, I think that you are absolutely on topic by raising the question of intentional spins in a Pietenpol. I don't see this as a pointless exercise at all. I have made flying my career for more than 30 years, so although, I have little experience in construction and maintenance of airplanes, I do feel totally comfortable discussing, flying, flight training, and flight safety, among other things. It is great to fly this or any other airplane, but if you are not sensitive to and have a knowledge and understanding of such things as specific flight characteristics of the model of airplane being flown, aerodynamics, and more, then you may get yourself into a situation that you can't get out of. By way of example, that is what spin training is about, at least when I taught spins in the military. Yes, a student was graded on their entry procedures as well as their recovery procedures, but the exercise was designed not to teach how to spin, or necessarily on how to recover, but, rather, how to avoid a spin entry was the actual goal. By recognizing that, as Steve Emo put it, "Isn't it easier, safer, and cheaper just to keep the ball in the center?", and understanding how rapidly things can go wrong when you don't, it makes for a safer pilot. So, I do think a discussion of flying, and not just building, is exactly what this Forum is about. That is why I appreciate people like Dick Navratil and others who have experience with different weights, power plants, etc. that really help this Forum. Maybe that is my $0.04 worth. -------- Do Not Archive Semper Fi, Terry Hand Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371195#371195


    Message 38


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    Time: 04:34:35 PM PST US
    From: airlion <airlion@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: spins
    Kevin, you are too much. You know that I have a Tshirt that says THE OLDER I GET,THE BETTER I USED TO FLY. HE HE. Cheers, Gardiner ----- Original Message ---- From: kevinpurtee <kevin.purtee@us.army.mil> Sent: Wed, April 18, 2012 7:05:57 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: spins Back to Gardiner: y'all realize he's a former Marine SPAD driver, a retired airline pilot with ~30,000 hours, and he flies the tar out of a Cessna 140, right? do not archive and go back to breaking those ribs -------- Kevin &quot;Axel&quot; Purtee NX899KP Austin/San Marcos, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371212#371212


    Message 39


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    Time: 04:36:12 PM PST US
    From: airlion <airlion@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: adhesive question
    Barge cement in a tube from Ace hardware ________________________________ From: Bob edson <robertse@centurytel.net> Sent: Wed, April 18, 2012 7:18:06 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: adhesive question I connected the cables to the rudder and elevators and all works good. I cut leather pieces to cover the openings in the fabric where the cables exit and now what adhesive is best for this attachment.Thanks for any information. Bob


    Message 40


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    Time: 04:36:57 PM PST US
    From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: adhesive question
    I used PolyTak. I used the Poly Fiber system fro my fabric work and PolyTak is their standard fabric adheasive. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob edson Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 7:18 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: adhesive question I connected the cables to the rudder and elevators and all works good. I cut leather pieces to cover the openings in the fabric where the cables exit and now what adhesive is best for this attachment.Thanks for any information. Bob


    Message 41


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    Time: 04:54:28 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: spins
    From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>
    To All- Kevin, I am very aware of Gardiner's background. Actually, he and I have worn the same uniform twice, although I would never consider myself to be in his league. He flew Spads, for cryin' out loud! I have a great deal of respect for Gardiner, let there be no doubt. Actually, you and I have a little in common. I keep looking for the collective that never seems to be there (I flew UH-1N's on active duty and the reserves for about 8 years). Bill, thanks for the alternative suggestion for testing. I may do it that way. But thanks, again, for your thoughts on the subject. Gardiner, I am in Athens but come to Buckhead a lot as my Mother-in-law lives on Peachtree Street. Send me an email off-line with your phone number and I would be proud to buy you an adult beverage some time when I come over. I do plan on going to Triple Tree this year, by the way. -------- Do Not Archive Semper Fi, Terry Hand Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371219#371219


    Message 42


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    Time: 04:56:14 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: spins
    From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com>
    "it will give me some comfort as to the relative strength of my ribs as well as the quality of my construction." This is true, it will give you an idea of strength of the ribs....relative to hanging sandbags on them. Well, ok, if that gives you comfort, fine. You just now have to figure out the conversion between the weight of a given amount of sand versus the loads imposed on a rib in flight. Or you could just build them as the plans show and trust in 80+ years of empirical evidence. Insofar as the quality of your construction, there's really no need to go to the trouble of constructing and destroying a whole rib to do that. Take some scrap wood, glue it up and let it set, then try to break the joint. If the wood breaks before the joint does, then you have glued a successful joint.... Either way....have fun! Ryan On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 4:40 PM, jarheadpilot82 <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>wrote: > jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com> > > Bill, > > My reason for doing some form of sandbag testing was simply to see if my > construction abilities were good enough that I would be willing to fly > under a wing for which I had built the ribs. It is not to prove the > soundness of Mr. Pietenpol's airfoil (or anyone else's for that better), > but rather to prove (at least to me) that the construction methods I used > are sound. Call me a belt and suspenders guy, but I just like to know I am > doing things correctly. Someone else may look at it differently. > > If testing my construction methods by the way I described is "pointless" > and there is a better way of doing so, I would be happy to hear what that > method is. I have generally found that it is a more positive experience for > all if one can provide a better way of doing things, rather than to simply > say something is "pointless." > > I am all ears if someone has a better suggestion. > > -------- > Do Not Archive > > Semper Fi, > > Terry Hand > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371203#371203 > >


    Message 43


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    Time: 04:56:14 PM PST US
    From: airlion <airlion@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Don't know
    Since I am rebuilding my piet after the tornado damage do I have to get another FAA inspection? Gardiner


    Message 44


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    Time: 04:56:42 PM PST US
    Subject: looks awesome!
    From: "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin@hotmail.com>
    I like it! :D Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371220#371220


    Message 45


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    Time: 04:57:38 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Overkill...
    From: "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin@hotmail.com>
    I like it, i think it looks awesome! :D Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371221#371221


    Message 46


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    Time: 05:13:11 PM PST US
    From: Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
    Subject: Stitch question...
    Yeah, I figure if I can maintain minimum spacing I can probably move the stitches. Got it resolved thanks. That stitch has been smoothed over and 20 more made! :-) This evening my oldest son and my youngest son sat with me on the couch taking turns rib stitching. The oldest is an A&P at American Airlines and hadn't done a rib stitch in 15 or so years....so Ben (the 12 year old) helped him. It was one of my best Pietenpol experiences yet (and to think this project ALMOST ended up disappering from my shop a couple years ago!).... JM -----Original Message----- >From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net> >Sent: Apr 18, 2012 5:48 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Stitch question... > > >Jim, > >I know you resolved this, but, you know that you are allowed to move the stitch to avoid framing members...right? > >Gary from Cool >NX308MB > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle >Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 12:38 PM >To: Pietenpol List >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stitch question... > >Would it be generally accepted as "ok" to go ahead and stitch around the diagonal in the attached? And leave the cord laying against the diagonal? This is one of the middle ribs on the horiz stab. And it doesn't move like a cable would. Shouldn't be any movement between the diagonal brace and the cord. So can I get by with just running the waxed cord around it and tightening up? > >There's just not much clearance in that area but I can just stich around the rib if needed.... > >(Hope this makes sense....) > >Jim in Pryor > >


    Message 47


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    Time: 05:15:45 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: spins
    From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>
    Ryan, Thanks for the advice. I really appreciate it. It makes sense what you are saying about just testing a sample joint. Good point. Thanks again. -------- Do Not Archive Semper Fi, Terry Hand Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371225#371225


    Message 48


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    Time: 05:47:03 PM PST US
    From: "Jack" <jack@textors.com>
    Subject: Stitch question...
    Glad you came to your senses Jim! Jack Textor DSM NX1929T do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 7:13 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Stitch question... Yeah, I figure if I can maintain minimum spacing I can probably move the stitches. Got it resolved thanks. That stitch has been smoothed over and 20 more made! :-) This evening my oldest son and my youngest son sat with me on the couch taking turns rib stitching. The oldest is an A&P at American Airlines and hadn't done a rib stitch in 15 or so years....so Ben (the 12 year old) helped him. It was one of my best Pietenpol experiences yet (and to think this project ALMOST ended up disappering from my shop a couple years ago!).... JM -----Original Message----- >From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net> >Sent: Apr 18, 2012 5:48 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Stitch question... > > >Jim, > >I know you resolved this, but, you know that you are allowed to move the stitch to avoid framing members...right? > >Gary from Cool >NX308MB > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle >Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 12:38 PM >To: Pietenpol List >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stitch question... > >Would it be generally accepted as "ok" to go ahead and stitch around the diagonal in the attached? And leave the cord laying against the diagonal? This is one of the middle ribs on the horiz stab. And it doesn't move like a cable would. Shouldn't be any movement between the diagonal brace and the cord. So can I get by with just running the waxed cord around it and tightening up? > >There's just not much clearance in that area but I can just stich around the rib if needed.... > >(Hope this makes sense....) > >Jim in Pryor > >


    Message 49


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    Time: 05:51:10 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Destructive Testing
    From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com>
    Dan, It depends on whether or not you have soaked it in a bathtub or lit it on fire yet.... Ryan do not archive On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 6:16 PM, <helspersew@aol.com> wrote: > Gary, > > It is my understanding that if your rib can withstand a small elephant > standing upon it, then that is the standard for acceptable rib crush > strength. Maybe someone here can illustrate this concept so we can all > understand a little better. > > Dan Helsper > > do not archive > > > -----Original Message----- > From: gboothe5 <gboothe5@comcast.net> > To: pietenpol-list <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Wed, Apr 18, 2012 5:10 pm > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Destructive Testing > > > I'm certainly no aeronautical engineer, so I'm curious...what's an accept able > crush weight? What's unacceptable? > > Gary from Cool > Do not archive > ------Original Message------ > From: jarheadpilot82 > Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > ReplyTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: spins > Sent: Apr 18, 2012 2:40 PM > tmail.com> > > Bill, > > My reason for doing some form of sandbag testing was simply to see if my > construction abilities were good enough that I would be willing to fly un der a > wing for which I had built the ribs. It is not to prove the soundness of Mr. > Pietenpol's airfoil (or anyone else's for that better), but rather to pro ve (at > least to me) that the construction methods I used are sound. Call me a be lt and > suspenders guy, but I just like to know I am doing things correctly. Some one > else may look at it differently. > > If testing my construction methods by the way I described is "pointless" and > there is a better way of doing so, I would be happy to hear what that met hod is. > I have generally found that it is a more positive experience for all if o ne can > provide a better way of doing things, rather than to simply say something is > "pointless." > > I am all ears if someone has a better suggestion. > > -------- > Do Not Archive > > Semper Fi, > > Terry Hand > > > Read this topic online here: > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371203#371203 > > > Sent on the Sprint=AE Now Network from my BlackBerry=AE > > > " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > p://forums.matronics.com > blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > >


    Message 50


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    Time: 05:53:00 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Destructive Testing
    From: "Bill Church" <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
    Ask and ye shall receive... do not archive > > It is my understanding that if your rib can withstand a small elephant standing upon it, then that is the standard for acceptable rib crush strength. Maybe someone here can illustrate this concept so we can all understand a little better. > > Dan Helsper Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371229#371229 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/ribtest_189.jpg


    Message 51


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    Time: 05:57:32 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Destructive Testing
    From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com>
    The beachball allows even application of the weight along the capstrip...... Michael P, do you have a hint video for this process yet? Ryan do not archive On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 7:52 PM, Bill Church <billspiet@sympatico.ca> wrote: > billspiet@sympatico.ca> > > Ask and ye shall receive... > > > do not archive > > > > > > It is my understanding that if your rib can withstand a small elephant > standing upon it, then that is the standard for acceptable rib crush > strength. Maybe someone here can illustrate this concept so we can all > understand a little better. > > > > Dan Helsper > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371229#371229 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/ribtest_189.jpg > >


    Message 52


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    Time: 06:16:34 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: spins
    From: "Bill Church" <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
    Gardiner, Getting back to your original question... The answer is YES, someone (not me) has spun a Pietenpol. I recall reading a story in Chet Peek's book "The Pietenpol Story" about a flight that BHP took, that was very nearly his last. As I recall, BHP was in the front seat, and a larger gentleman was in the pilot's seat, and the guy wanted to see how the plane would spin, so BHP threw it into a spin, but found that the extra weight in the rear wouldn't allow him to exit the spin. The stick travel was limited by hitting the panel, and BHP eventually ended up forcing the stick far to one side to get under the panel, in order to get the additional forward travel, and managed to exit the spin, just in the nick of time. If I have the time, I'll see if I can find the story. While it isn't recommended, from what I've read, I believe that spinning and looping occurred fairly frequently in the "old days". But then, so did crashes. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371232#371232


    Message 53


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    Time: 06:50:10 PM PST US
    From: airlion <airlion@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: spins
    Thanks Bill, A while back I visited Pat Green in Hilliard Fl, and he said that he let his friend take his Piet up for some acro. He got into a spin at about 4500 ft and did not get out of it untill 700 ft. It seems that his friend was very tall and his upper body blocked all airflow to the rudder. Pat then redesigned his rudder and added 10 inches to the height. I think he is still flying his Piet which he built about 30 years ago. He also added more wingspan to get over the pine trees at his field. He is a very nice man to talk to but I don't know his phone. Talk to him. Gardiner Mason ----- Original Message ---- From: Bill Church <billspiet@sympatico.ca> Sent: Wed, April 18, 2012 9:16:13 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: spins Gardiner, Getting back to your original question... The answer is YES, someone (not me) has spun a Pietenpol. I recall reading a story in Chet Peek's book "The Pietenpol Story" about a flight that BHP took, that was very nearly his last. As I recall, BHP was in the front seat, and a larger gentleman was in the pilot's seat, and the guy wanted to see how the plane would spin, so BHP threw it into a spin, but found that the extra weight in the rear wouldn't allow him to exit the spin. The stick travel was limited by hitting the panel, and BHP eventually ended up forcing the stick far to one side to get under the panel, in order to get the additional forward travel, and managed to exit the spin, just in the nick of time. If I have the time, I'll see if I can find the story. While it isn't recommended, from what I've read, I believe that spinning and looping occurred fairly frequently in the "old days". But then, so did crashes. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371232#371232


    Message 54


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    Time: 07:01:10 PM PST US
    From: airlion <airlion@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: spins
    Terry, call me any time. My atlanta phone is 404 367 9453, and my cell is 706 594 3811. If you need a place to stay we have it. We are in memorial park just west of Northside Dr. Gardiner ----- Original Message ---- From: jarheadpilot82 <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com> Sent: Wed, April 18, 2012 7:53:35 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: spins <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com> To All- Kevin, I am very aware of Gardiner's background. Actually, he and I have worn the same uniform twice, although I would never consider myself to be in his league. He flew Spads, for cryin' out loud! I have a great deal of respect for Gardiner, let there be no doubt. Actually, you and I have a little in common. I keep looking for the collective that never seems to be there (I flew UH-1N's on active duty and the reserves for about 8 years). Bill, thanks for the alternative suggestion for testing. I may do it that way. But thanks, again, for your thoughts on the subject. Gardiner, I am in Athens but come to Buckhead a lot as my Mother-in-law lives on Peachtree Street. Send me an email off-line with your phone number and I would be proud to buy you an adult beverage some time when I come over. I do plan on going to Triple Tree this year, by the way. -------- Do Not Archive Semper Fi, Terry Hand Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371219#371219


    Message 55


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    Time: 08:00:39 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Horizontal stab end pieces
    From: "Kyle85" <boschkyle@hotmail.com>
    Thanks guys, got the peace of mind I was looking for! - Kyle -------- Airspeed, altitude or brains: Two are always needed to successfully complete the flight. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371239#371239


    Message 56


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    Time: 08:21:04 PM PST US
    From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Don't know
    No, not unless you make substantial changes (different engine, different prop, etc.). Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of airlion Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 7:56 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Don't know Since I am rebuilding my piet after the tornado damage do I have to get another FAA inspection? Gardiner


    Message 57


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    Time: 08:52:12 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Don't know
    From: "taildrags" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
    See, now that's what I love about this group! A very practical, responsible answer. If this were the "V-Tail Bonanza Group" or the "Mooney Owners Association" list, you'd be getting post after post about which FAA, NTSB, EAA, AOPA, GSA, TSA, or FCC form or license or fee you should be dealing with. You bend your Piet, you fix it. When it's fixed, you dust yourself off and you go fly it again. This is why we love these old airplanes! Ask me how I know ;o) PS- Gardiner, that little truck you babysat for me brought me 2500 miles from TX to OR towing a UHaul trailer in the heat of summer and mostly in 3rd gear, and it never missed a beat. Temp gauge never moved off the peg. Thanks again to you and Susan for treating me and my little Ranger like family, and I hope to do the same for you some day. Oh, and I'll buy you coffee and a piece of Georgia peach pie. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC &quot;Scout&quot; A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371243#371243


    Message 58


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    Time: 11:50:26 PM PST US
    From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854@shaw.ca>
    Subject: Re: piet pics
    Well, for what it's worth mine is here; http://www.clifdawson.ca/Homepage4-10-06/Pietenpol.html If that doesn't work; http://www.clifdawson.ca/ Clif A mile of road will take you a mile, but a mile of runway will take you anywhere > just looking for maybe a link for a bunch of piet pics in one place. or > maybe whoever reads this can include their Piet pic. thanks; Paul > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371164#371164 > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >




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