Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:35 AM - aircamper (Clif Dawson)
2. 03:39 AM - Re: Fuse question (Jack Phillips)
3. 05:02 AM - Pietenpols Unstable? (Kringle)
4. 05:03 AM - Re: Fuse question (kevinpurtee)
5. 05:15 AM - Re: Pietenpols Unstable? (kevinpurtee)
6. 05:31 AM - Re: Pietenpols Unstable? (Greg Cardinal)
7. 05:41 AM - Re: Pietenpols Unstable? (jarheadpilot82)
8. 05:42 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpols Unstable? (Jack@textors.com)
9. 06:10 AM - Re: Pietenpols Unstable? (Ryan M)
10. 07:26 AM - Re: Pietenpols Unstable? (Kringle)
11. 07:27 AM - Re: Pietenpols Unstable? (steve emo)
12. 07:38 AM - Re: Pietenpols Unstable? (Dick N)
13. 07:53 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpols Unstable? (Greg Cardinal)
14. 08:30 AM - Re: Pietenpols Unstable? (tools)
15. 09:40 AM - Re: Pietenpols Unstable? (jarheadpilot82)
16. 09:51 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpols Unstable? (Ryan M)
17. 10:02 AM - Internet "Dumpster Diving" (jarheadpilot82)
18. 10:04 AM - Re: Pietenpols Unstable? (jarheadpilot82)
19. 10:15 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpols Unstable? (Jack Phillips)
20. 10:20 AM - Re: hose fittings (Michael Perez)
21. 11:00 AM - long fuze Piet? (Timothy Willis)
22. 11:52 AM - Cards on the Table x 2 (jeff wilson)
23. 01:06 PM - new (airlion)
24. 02:45 PM - Re: long fuze Piet? (Kyle85)
25. 02:47 PM - Re: Fuse question (Kyle85)
26. 04:43 PM - Re: Re: Pietenpols Unstable? (C N Campbell)
27. 05:09 PM - Latex Paint Forum (gliderx5@comcast.net)
28. 06:17 PM - Re: Pietenpols Unstable? (Kyle85)
29. 07:37 PM - Re: apologies to Axel (IT Girl)
30. 07:52 PM - Re: Re: apologies to Axel (Ryan Mueller)
31. 08:43 PM - Re: Pietenpols Unstable? (kevinpurtee)
32. 11:02 PM - Piets unstable? (Clif Dawson)
Message 1
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This one appears to have the steel fuselage option.
Among other mods.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GwLZgX1cUA&feature=player_embedded
Clif
do not archive
Message 2
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Kyle,
I'm 6' 2" and about 195 lbs. I have the long fuselage, with the fuel in the
centersection. I can just barely manage to get into the front cockpit (rear
cockpit is fine) and would not want to sit in it for any extended period.
My cabane struts are 2-1/2" longer than plans and even with that it's a bear
to fold myself into the front seat.
If I were you, I'd build the short fuselage (because it's lighter, and
you'll need all the lightness you can get to haul both of you aloft) and put
your Dad on a diet. He'll thank you for it (as will his Doctor), he'll fit
better in the airplane, and the plane will perform better.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg
Cardinal
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 11:31 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse question
<gcardinal@comcast.net>
Your 6' 2" Dad will not be happy in the front cockpit of a short fuselage
Pietenpol, regardless of fuel tank location.
I am 5' 11" and had a ride in the short fuselage version. It was a tight
fit.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kyle85" <boschkyle@hotmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 9:59 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuse question
>
> I THOUGHT I had my mind made up on this but I have started having doubts
> on fuse length. My emp is days from completion and I was planning on
> starting the fuse shortly after. I have plans for both the long and the
> short fuse along with the materials to build either, so that is not a
> factor. Here is my scenario; It is important to me that my dad be able to
> fly with me. He is about 6'2 and 230 lbs. I am 5'10 180 lbs. My initial
> thought was long fuse because I was planning on running a cont. A-65. But
> then i realized my fuel tank is set up to be placed in the nose. So, I
> would think I could go with the short and be fine with the added fuel
> weight that far forward. But the problem with that logic is I will develop
> an aft CG as my fuel burns. If I do decide to go with the short will my
> dad fit with that fuel tank up there? I need some real world guidance here
> I know a few of you have built and flown planes close to this
> configuration. Any regrets or thoughts you would like to !
> pass along would be appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Kyle
>
> --------
> Airspeed, altitude or brains: Two are always needed to successfully
> complete the flight.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371455#371455
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Pietenpols Unstable? |
A pilot told me that all the piets she flew were unstable. She said, If you let
go of the stick they would just fall off one way or the other. Say it aint
so!
John
--------
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371466#371466
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Fuse question |
Kyle - I have a long fuselage, no tank up front and standard length cabanes. Not
your setup but you may still find the information valuable: I've had people
close to your Dad's size up there and, 1) they don't want to stay very long,
2) they tear up the airplane getting in and out - the person and the plane cannot
exist in the same space at the same time. Extended cabanes would alleviate
ingress/egress issues a little but it would still be a tight fit.
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/San Marcos, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371467#371467
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpols Unstable? |
Perhaps she meant to say that all Piet pilots are unstable? How many has she flown?
Here's what I know: if the air is calm my airplane will fly hands off for 20-30
seconds. If there are any bumps I have to monitor the airplane much more closely.
The nose wants to drop at low speeds, but that has nothing to do with aerodynamics
and everything to do with those big heavy elevators hanging back there being
subject to gravity. I have the East Texas Trim System in the form of a bungee
cord that keeps the nose where it belongs.
Here's what I've been told. I'm darn sure no aerodynamics expert so take it for
what it's worth: if the CG is jacked up, common in a Piet, an airplane can be
unstable. The experts can chime in.
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/San Marcos, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371469#371469
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpols Unstable? |
Only in turbulence. The only time I found it bothersome is when trying to
fold a chart. Then I learned to have my charts pepared prior to takeoff to
minimize folding them in the air.
It is part of the charm.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kringle" <Mrkringles@msn.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 7:01 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpols Unstable?
>
> A pilot told me that all the piets she flew were unstable. She said,
> ?oIf you let go of the stick they would just fall off one way or the
> other?. Say it ain?Tt so!
>
> John
>
> --------
> John
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371466#371466
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpols Unstable? |
John,
I am still building, and have only flown a couple of friend's Piets, but I have
a hard time when someone says, "All (fill in the blank) are (fill in the blank)."
Generalizations do no one any good, especially from someone that you may
not know their basis of the statement. How many Piets has she flown? Do you
really think that so many Piets would be built and flying over the past 80+ years
if the flying characteristics were so poor?
I think that I read an old EAA Chapter newsletter a while back that discussed Greg
Cardinal's first flights in his Piet and how there were initially some issues
with the flight characteristics. After flight testing and checking the rigging
on the flight controls, it flew much better. Obviously, he likes the way
it flies now as he has flown it for many years. Chime in, Greg, if I got this
story wrong.
My point is this. If any airplane flies "wrong", it very well could be the rigging
is incorrect and needs to be adjusted. Maybe this person flew several Piets
that had rigging issues. But her biggest mistake is making a broad brush statement
that paints a poor picture of a time-tested airplane.
My $.02
--------
Do Not Archive
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371471#371471
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpols Unstable? |
Has anyone ever built a "flying" tail Piet? In my model years I did so with a couple
of Sig Seniors and it worked well.
Jack Textor
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 22, 2012, at 7:15 AM, "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee@us.army.mil> wrote:
>
> Perhaps she meant to say that all Piet pilots are unstable? How many has she
flown?
>
> Here's what I know: if the air is calm my airplane will fly hands off for 20-30
seconds. If there are any bumps I have to monitor the airplane much more closely.
>
> The nose wants to drop at low speeds, but that has nothing to do with aerodynamics
and everything to do with those big heavy elevators hanging back there being
subject to gravity. I have the East Texas Trim System in the form of a bungee
cord that keeps the nose where it belongs.
>
> Here's what I've been told. I'm darn sure no aerodynamics expert so take it
for what it's worth: if the CG is jacked up, common in a Piet, an airplane can
be unstable. The experts can chime in.
>
> --------
> Kevin "Axel" Purtee
> NX899KP
> Austin/San Marcos, TX
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371469#371469
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpols Unstable? |
John,=0A=0ABecause=C2-Piets have no =C2-dihedral and generally have an
aft cg, it will be less stable than a 172 or whatever else she is used to f
lying. That doesn't necessarily make it a bad thing, just has more=C2-cha
racter, but may take a little more skill to fly it.=C2-=0A=0AI am a pilot
but only a Piet builder so take it for what it's worth.=0A=0ARyan Michals
=0A=0AStability=C2-is the tendency of an airplane in flight to remain in
straight, level, upright flight and to return to this attitude, if displace
d, without corrective action by the pilot.=0AStatic stability=C2-is the
=C2-initial=C2-tendency of an airplane, when disturbed, to return to th
e original position.=0ADynamic stability=C2-is the=C2-overall=C2-tend
ency of an airplane to return to its original position, following a series
of damped out oscillations.=0A=0AStability may be (a)=C2-positive,=C2-m
eaning the airplane will develop forces or moments which tend to restore it
to its original position; (b)=C2-neutral,=C2-meaning the restoring for
ces are absent and the airplane will neither return from its disturbed posi
tion, nor move further away; (c)=C2-negative,=C2-meaning it will develo
p forces or moments which tend to move it further away. Negative stability
is, in other words, the condition of=C2-instability.=0AA stable airplane
is one that will fly "hands off" and is pleasant and easy to handle. An exc
eedingly stable airplane, on the other hand, may lack maneuverability.=0AAn
airplane which, following a disturbance, oscillates with increasing up and
down movements until it eventually stalls or enters a dangerous dive would
be said to be unstable, or to have negative dynamic stability.=0AAn airpla
ne that has positive dynamic stability does not automatically have positive
=C2-static=C2-stability. The designers may have elected to build in, fo
r example, negative static stability and positive dynamic stability in orde
r to achieve their objective in maneuverability. In other words, negative a
nd positive dynamic and static stability may be incorporated in any combina
tion in any particular design of airplane.=0AAn airplane may be=C2-inhere
ntly stable,=C2-that is, stable due to features incorporated in the desig
n, but may become=C2-unstable=C2-due to changes in the position of the
center of gravity (caused by consumption of fuel, improper disposition of t
he disposable load, etc.).=0AStability may be (a)=C2-longitudinal,=C2-(
b)=C2-lateral,=C2-or (c)=C2-directional,=C2-depending on whether th
e disturbance has affected the airframe in the (a)=C2-pitching,=C2-(b)
=C2-rolling, or (c)=C2-yawing=C2-plane. copied from :http://www.allst
ar.fiu.edu/aero/axes33.htm=C2-=0A=0A________________________________=0A F
rom: Kringle <Mrkringles@msn.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com =0ASen
t: Sunday, April 22, 2012 8:01 AM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpols Uns
n.com>=0A=0AA pilot told me that all the piets she flew were unstable.=C2
- She said, =9CIf you let go of the stick they would just fall off
one way or the other=9D.=C2- Say it ain=99t so!=0A=0AJohn=0A
=0A--------=0AJohn=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://f
orums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371466#371466=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
==
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpols Unstable? |
Ill ask her more the next time I see her but it may be several months. She is
a retired FAA inspector and has over 100 hours piloting Pietenpols.
--------
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371477#371477
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpols Unstable? |
Sorry folks but I must say something here... The Piet's design is basically
stable. If the CG is within limits and the plane is well rigged. I have
no adjustable elevator trim on 58TL but I can trim it using the throttle.
Just for grins the other night I took my hands off the stick and using only
the throttle and rudders entered downwind at 45 deg and turned to base.
Banks were 15 deg or so. I was seeing if I might be able to land it
without stick input. My conclusion is with 'luck' and a long
approach/field one could fly it on.
I used to fly a 1978 PA28-181 and wouldn't fly more than 5-10 seconds
without dropping a wing until we FIXED the aileron rigging! Then you could
fly it with the throttle and rudder...
Piet design Inherently unstable? - Simply No
Steve
On Sun, Apr 22, 2012 at 8:01 AM, Kringle <Mrkringles@msn.com> wrote:
>
> A pilot told me that all the piets she flew were unstable. She said, =93
If
> you let go of the stick they would just fall off one way or the other=94.
> Say it ain=92t so!
>
> John
>
> --------
> John
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371466#371466
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpols Unstable? |
The stability of the Piet is totally affected by the lack of trim tabs.
That needs to be controlled by engine power instead. Or as BHP said, you
can stick your arm out to one side or the other and make it turn. Dont try
that with a 172.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kringle" <Mrkringles@msn.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 7:01 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpols Unstable?
>
> A pilot told me that all the piets she flew were unstable. She said,
> ?oIf you let go of the stick they would just fall off one way or the
> other?. Say it ain?Tt so!
>
> John
>
> --------
> John
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371466#371466
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpols Unstable? |
It is a rare airplane that will fly "hands off" on it's first flight.
Rigging adjustments are common and part of the reason for the test flying
period.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 7:41 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpols Unstable?
> <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>
>
> John,
>
> I am still building, and have only flown a couple of friend's Piets, but I
> have a hard time when someone says, "All (fill in the blank) are (fill in
> the blank)." Generalizations do no one any good, especially from someone
> that you may not know their basis of the statement. How many Piets has she
> flown? Do you really think that so many Piets would be built and flying
> over the past 80+ years if the flying characteristics were so poor?
>
> I think that I read an old EAA Chapter newsletter a while back that
> discussed Greg Cardinal's first flights in his Piet and how there were
> initially some issues with the flight characteristics. After flight
> testing and checking the rigging on the flight controls, it flew much
> better. Obviously, he likes the way it flies now as he has flown it for
> many years. Chime in, Greg, if I got this story wrong.
>
> My point is this. If any airplane flies "wrong", it very well could be the
> rigging is incorrect and needs to be adjusted. Maybe this person flew
> several Piets that had rigging issues. But her biggest mistake is making a
> broad brush statement that paints a poor picture of a time-tested
> airplane.
>
> My $.02
>
> --------
> Do Not Archive
>
> Semper Fi,
>
> Terry Hand
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371471#371471
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpols Unstable? |
All flying Piets are stable. What that means is that when disturbed from a steady
state, they tend to return to that state, rather than diverge from it. If
the CG is within limits, it's pretty much guaranteed... (barring weird stuff).
However, probably due to the reasonably small control surfaces, Piets tend to get
better pilot reports when flown in the aft region of acceptable CG limits.
There, the plane is LESS stable, but still stable. When disturbed from a steady
state, it's pretty slow and not aggressive about returning to that state,
also, it takes less force to disturb it.
Stability and maneuverability are the mutually exclusive things here. You can
only have one, and how an airplane flies is a compromise between the two.
The general inability to remain trimmed and simply fly hands off however is probably
what's being discussed, rather than stability. A highly stable airplane
will have the ability to stay trimmed up better than one that is not as stable,
or more maneuverable. As mentioned, many piets don't even have a way to trim
them, so for hands off flight, you find the airspeed the airplane is trimmed
for. Dicks's NX2RN is a classic example. It's hands off at 2K rpm and a pilot
only. Fly at a higher rpm and it needs some rudder input and it climbs (or
needs constant down stick and will therefore fly faster). At 1900 rpm, the
opposite.
So the broad sweeping statement that Piets are unstable really suffers from misuse
of the term stable. For it's class, it's a relatively maneuverable, less
stable airplane. If you want it more stable, move the CG forward. Then, rig
the plane to fly hands off in the regime you'll be flying in the most.
By the way, if the plane was unstable, when it is disturbed from steady state,
that movement would continue until something bad happens, like a ground loop,
but in the air. All taildraggers are unstable while moving on the ground. Directionality
can be achieved by overcoming the unstable force either with sufficient
rudder authority or tailwheel authority, or brakes, or something. But
the configuration is unstable.
The one caveat is unstable airplanes like F-18's, that have computers keeping them
in control. They are maneuvable and have forced stability.
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371490#371490
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpols Unstable? |
That was the point of my story about your airplane, Greg. It wasn't rigged quite
as you wanted during your first hours (common trait of new airplanes), so you
made corrections to the rigging until you were happy (another common exercise).
My point was only that rigging often requires changes, and, also, rigging qualities
are often directly related to the abilities of the rigger. Maybe this person
flew one or more Piets that either had little to no rigging correction, or
the abilities of the rigger were less than adequate.
Tools says it succinctly that in an airplane without trimming capabilities, the
airplane has a "sweet spot" if you will. Maybe nobody told her what that was,
so she formed an uneducated opinion. I stand by my logic that, if the airplane
was difficult to fly, there would not be this large group of people still enjoying
them over 80 years later.
--------
Do Not Archive
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371491#371491
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpols Unstable? |
With 100hrs, her=C2-experience=C2-couldn't have been all that bad, she
got back in one, several times.=0A=0ARyan=0A=0A____________________________
____=0A From: Kringle <Mrkringles@msn.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.c
om =0ASent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 10:24 AM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Re:
<Mrkringles@msn.com>=0A=0AI=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2ll ask her more the next
time I see her but it may be several months.=C2- She is a retired FAA in
spector and has over 100 hours piloting Pietenpols.=0A=0A--------=0AJohn=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/v
- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-
====================
Message 17
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| Subject: | Internet "Dumpster Diving" |
I am sure that no one else does this, but I tend spend time going down rabbit trails
when searching for things on the Internet, and I end up running into web
sites that I might not normally look for or find (Keep it clean, here, guys).
[Wink] I have termed it Internet Dumpster Diving- finding stuff that people
have thrown out there, and maybe even have forgotten that they have. Some stuff
that I find is more valuable than other stuff.
Anyway, I came across this website that has numerous aviation as well as woodworking
books that are in the public domain. For example, it might be interesting
to look through some of the aeronautical books from 1919 to see where the technology
was in that day. Any way, I thought it was interesting, and thought it
might be for others as well.
--------
Do Not Archive
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpols Unstable? |
Good point, Ryan.
--------
Do Not Archive
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Read this topic online here:
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpols Unstable? |
A Piet is no more unstable than a J-3 Cub, if rigged correctly and in the
proper CG range. Like a Cub, it will fly hands off in smooth air for a long
time. Like a Cub it will fly feet off for as much as 2 or 3 seconds.
I've flown 5 different Pietenpols - my own, Mike Cuy's, Shad and Gary
Bell's, John Hofmann's and a Grega GN-1 many years ago built by a fellow
named Mike Lucky. All had about the same stability. All are good flying
airplanes.
Having said that, they all fly like what they are - a 1929 design. All
require plenty of rudder and none will fly with the stability of a Cessna
210, nor should they. What kind of airplanes does this 'expert" fly? Is
she used to flying antiques or modern spamcans?
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
jarheadpilot82
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 8:41 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpols Unstable?
<jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>
John,
I am still building, and have only flown a couple of friend's Piets, but I
have a hard time when someone says, "All (fill in the blank) are (fill in
the blank)." Generalizations do no one any good, especially from someone
that you may not know their basis of the statement. How many Piets has she
flown? Do you really think that so many Piets would be built and flying over
the past 80+ years if the flying characteristics were so poor?
I think that I read an old EAA Chapter newsletter a while back that
discussed Greg Cardinal's first flights in his Piet and how there were
initially some issues with the flight characteristics. After flight testing
and checking the rigging on the flight controls, it flew much better.
Obviously, he likes the way it flies now as he has flown it for many years.
Chime in, Greg, if I got this story wrong.
My point is this. If any airplane flies "wrong", it very well could be the
rigging is incorrect and needs to be adjusted. Maybe this person flew
several Piets that had rigging issues. But her biggest mistake is making a
broad brush statement that paints a poor picture of a time-tested airplane.
My $.02
--------
Do Not Archive
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
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| Subject: | Re: hose fittings |
John, have you found the hose fittings you need? If not, email me off list and
we'll talk...I believe I can help you out.
Michael Perez
Pietenpol HINT Videos
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
Message 21
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Go long. Period.
Piets are still tight fits for many. I have a short Piet fuze hanging
in my garage as unusable by me, and a long fuselage Piet requires
bigger "shin holes" for me in the bulkhead at the passenger seat back
frame. I am just under 6 ft. 2in. Others may well correct me on
this, but I suspect both the pilot and passenger make out with more
room in a long fuze version.
Not only you and your dad, but other passengers and maybe the guy you
sell it to or your kids may appreciate the longer leg room and ease of
entry.
Tim in central TX
Message 22
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| Subject: | Cards on the Table x 2 |
Hello Fella's=0A=0AI'm involved in two Piet builds. My Piet started in 1992
when I bought the GN-1 plans from John Grega. At that time I didn't even k
now about Bernard, Hoopman and Cherry Grove.- But I was just too busy wit
h Career- and family so the plans sat in my file drawer along with all my
other info packets for other kits and plans for the dream of flight.=0AThe
n in 2010, with my youngest of 3 finally graduated from college, I started
getting the itch again. I looked through all the info packets and plans for
several different aircraft and came across the Grega plans. An EAA member
since 1992, I was not involved in a Chapter so it was time to get to know s
ome guys and get started building. When I went to the Chapter meeting for t
he first time I carried the GN-1 plans with me. I had written GN-1 in large
red letters on the outside of the manilla envelope and as soon as I walked
in the room the chapter president Brian Kissinger, saw it and said "We've
been looking for those". It turns out that about a half a year before the c
hapter had received a Piet that had been crashed nearly 15 years before. It
was a Grega built in the early 70's by a retired airline pilot, Art Hollim
an. The construction was A+. Well done and over built at just over 800 poun
ds. The crash did very little damage to the plane but
unfortunately Art Holliman did not fair so well. He is still with us but a
head injury left him blind. The plane was scavenged for the engine and ins
truments but the rest was in remarkable shape.=0ASo about a dozen chapter 6
4 members are working a few hours a week to rebuild it. About half the tail
feathers have been covered and one wing panel should be done soon. Another
crew is working on the fuse and cowl to enclose the 0-200. Cub style gear
with springs and 6 inch wheels.=0AWe were hoping to make Brodhead this year
but 2013 is more realistic.=0AThis is our Logo (copyrighted)=0A=0ABelow is
the Scrounge Dawg Piet (GN-1) at Historic Hangar 2, built by Curtis Wright
in 1927and used to build the Curtis Robin, at CPS St. Louis Downtown.=0A
=0A=0A=0ANow back to my Piet. I started researching Pietenpol on the intern
et and found the Brodhead Pietenpol Association and this Matronics list. I
sent away for the plans and picked up a project consisting of basic fuse an
d ribs and spars. I already have the Bingellis books, bought way back $45 f
or all 4.=0ASo I'm building to plans, long fuse, using Tony's books as the
construction manual.=0A=0AFuse is mostly done now except for Jenny style ge
ar which won't be put on till I get it in my new (new to me that is) hangar
at H49. Hangar needs a lot of work yet. Hope to be in by June.=0ARibs on s
pars with leading and trailing edges. Have not yet cut out ailerons.=0AI ha
ve a beautiful little A-65 200 hrs SMOH and chrome cylinders and complete e
xhaust, airbox, carb etc.- Engine is ready to mount.=0A=0ARay Hegy 72x42
prop previously flight tested by Oscar Z. on Scout.=0AWith the three piece
wing, the span will be 31 ft. Cross bracing in wings will be hard wire, no
turnbuckles.=0A=0A15 gal tank in center section. No nose tank.=0A19 inch ri
ms will be cross laced to a home made 6inch hub and covered with fabric.
=0A=0ASmall go-cart style strap brakes, heel pedals.=0A=0ABelow pic is not
very current=0A=0A=0AJeff Wilson=0ASt. Louis, MO=0APrivate Pilot
Message 23
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Douwe, you have really started something. If all these new builders get their planes
flying then we are going to have a hell of a squadron. Cheers, Gardiner
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: long fuze Piet? |
Thanks Tim! Looks like I will be making the long one work for me. Just be building
a class E and G airspace basic VFR airplane with no extra electrical and split
axle landing gear with spoke wheels. The end product hopefully will be light
enough for us.
Kyle
--------
Airspeed, altitude or brains: Two are always needed to successfully complete the
flight.
Read this topic online here:
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| Subject: | Re: Fuse question |
Thanks guys! Looks like I am going to build long and as light as I can!
-Kyle
--------
Airspeed, altitude or brains: Two are always needed to successfully complete the
flight.
Read this topic online here:
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpols Unstable? |
Kevin, what do you mean by "jacked up"? C
----- Original Message -----
From: "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 8:15 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpols Unstable?
> <kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>
>
> Perhaps she meant to say that all Piet pilots are unstable? How many has
> she flown?
>
> Here's what I know: if the air is calm my airplane will fly hands off for
> 20-30 seconds. If there are any bumps I have to monitor the airplane much
> more closely.
>
> The nose wants to drop at low speeds, but that has nothing to do with
> aerodynamics and everything to do with those big heavy elevators hanging
> back there being subject to gravity. I have the East Texas Trim System in
> the form of a bungee cord that keeps the nose where it belongs.
>
> Here's what I've been told. I'm darn sure no aerodynamics expert so take
> it for what it's worth: if the CG is jacked up, common in a Piet, an
> airplane can be unstable. The experts can chime in.
>
> --------
> Kevin "Axel" Purtee
> NX899KP
> Austin/San Marcos, TX
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371469#371469
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Latex Paint Forum |
Just an FYI for anyone in the Suffolk , VA area. I will be at the VA Festiv
al of flight this coming weekend presenting a forum on painting your airpla
ne with inexpensive latex paint. The forum is currently scheduled to run fr
om 11:15 to 12:15 on Saturday (maybe Sunday too). I will talk about finishi
ng my Kolb MKII, Titan Tornado, and Pietenpol Aircamper. Weather permitting
I will have the Titan with me. Stop by and say hi if you get the chance. B
elow is a link to the festival=99s web site.
http://virginiaflyin.org/
Malcolm Morrison
http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/Airplanes.htm
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpols Unstable? |
Chuck,
Jacked up is a term that you would hear a lot in the military. It means something
that is not correct or blatantly wrong. You will hear drill instructors tell
someone their uniform is "Jacked Up" if it is wrinkled or items not pinned(or
in today's military velcro) in its place. Sorry to cut in, but I am pretty sure
that is what he was getting at.
Kyle
--------
Airspeed, altitude or brains: Two are always needed to successfully complete the
flight.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371540#371540
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| Subject: | Re: apologies to Axel |
Equal?? I take exception :)
--------
Shelley Tumino
IT Girl
wife of "Axel"
NX899KP
DO NOT ARCHIVE
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| Subject: | Re: apologies to Axel |
[image: Inline image 1]
Run Oscar, run!
do not archive
On Sun, Apr 22, 2012 at 9:34 PM, IT Girl <shlizbth@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Equal?? I take exception :)
>
> --------
> Shelley Tumino
> IT Girl
> wife of "Axel"
> NX899KP
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371543#371543
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpols Unstable? |
Too far aft, Chuck.
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/San Marcos, TX
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Pete Bowers tested and compared four Piets.
I have a file of the article. Ten pages,a little over
one meg.
I was recently flying a 100hp Citabria and now
fly a Chief. Even with considerable dihedral I
find the Chief won't fly very long hands off
before deciding to go somewhere else. I find
the thing much more "antsy" than the Citabria.
So from what you guys are saying about your
flying Piets they can't be any more unstable than
this post war certified baby. So what does that
say about this lady's experience? ( and attitude)
Who want's spam can stability anyway? Isn't
our interest and purpose to fly and have fun doing
it??
Clif
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving
safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in
sideways,
joystick in one hand, beer in the other, body
thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a
ride!"
How many Piets has she flown? Do you really think that so many Piets
would
be built and flying over the past 80+ years if the flying
characteristics
were so poor?
> My point is this. If any airplane flies "wrong", it very well could be
the
> rigging is incorrect and needs to be adjusted. Maybe this person flew
> several Piets that had rigging issues.>
> Do Not Archive
> Semper Fi,
> Terry Hand
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