---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 05/17/12: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:12 AM - Re: Avgas use in Continental A65 or A75 (Jerry Dotson) 2. 05:32 AM - Jeff's plane (Douwe Blumberg) 3. 06:31 AM - Stromberg Notes. (Michael Perez) 4. 06:55 AM - Re: Stromberg Notes. (Jack Phillips) 5. 07:02 AM - Re: Stromberg Notes. (steve@wotelectronics.com) 6. 07:37 AM - Re: Stromberg Notes. (Michael Perez) 7. 07:53 AM - Enid, OK fly-in (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB) 8. 08:14 AM - Re: Re: Avgas use in Continental A65 or A75 (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB) 9. 09:30 AM - Re: Avgas use in Continental A65 or A75 (Bill Church) 10. 01:09 PM - Re: Jeff's plane (bender) 11. 03:37 PM - Re: aileron gap (IT Girl) 12. 08:22 PM - Re: Re: aileron gap (Ray Krause) 13. 09:25 PM - Re: Re: aileron gap (Greg Cardinal) 14. 09:42 PM - Re: Re: aileron gap (Ray Krause) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:12:19 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Avgas use in Continental A65 or A75 From: "Jerry Dotson" Shad, While doing the major on my Lycoming O-235 I disassembled the MA-3 carburetor and put the black composite float and the rubber tipped needle in gas. I tested to be sure it had ethanol. They were submerged in a sealed quart jar for about 9 months with no degrading. So I will not get heartburn over putting some ethanol laced gas in my Piet. Also for you guys building, ACS and MAC's Antique Auto Parts has a float unaffected by ethanol. I bought mine from Mac's. A9312FLM Model A Ford Gas Gauge Float - Modern Neoprene Item Subtotal: $4.15 Estimated Shipping: $7.00 Minimum Order Fee: $2.00 Order Total: $13.15 -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 thru covering and painting, now in final assembly 21" wheels Lycoming O-235 C2C Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373215#373215 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:32:18 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jeff's plane Great work Jeff!! ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:31:20 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stromberg Notes. Crew, if I may... I just received last night a bunch of papers from Doc M. (BPA newsletter) a bout Stromberg carbs.- There is some GREAT intell. in these papers. Anyhoo, from what I remember, (I read through them once kinda fast)- orig inal Strombergs used SS needles and sharp cornered, (the sealing edge, if y ou will) brass seat.- Later came the noeprene tip SS needles that used a rounded cornered seat. This combination at the time was the fix all to carb . leaks. Having seen this, other companies jumped on the band wagon. These copied needles were sub standard with machining, finish and type of tip use d. Once the FAA approved auto fuel and the fuel found it's way into these c arbs. the neoprene tipped needles started to fail, as described in another post, by swelling.- The original, high quality neoprene tipped needles wo rk fine with aircraft fuel only, but are getting harder to find and disting uish from the "copies."- The rounded seat required for this needle accord ing to what I read, is almost impossible to find.- Even so, these good ne edles are very old and most have hardened and are brittle. The solution next was the Delrin needle, which is impervious to both fuels and their additives, if any.- This needle uses the sharp cornered seat li ke the SS needles.- Problem now is this needle is light weight and a weig ht needs to be added to the float arm to help seat the needle. I believe if this mod is done, the carb. must be marked with a 1" dia. yellow dot. I am sure someone here can reference this mod and post it.- Also, with this n eedle being relatively soft, lapping the needled has proved difficult and s ome have ruined them all together trying. Most have kept, or have gone back to the SS needle and sharp cornered seat as it can be used with any fuel and requires no mods to the float.- (I be lieve this SS needle/brass seat combo. is what is readily available still.) As Ryan mentioned in a previous post, lapping helps mate the sealing surfa ces. I have a NAS3B Stromberg as opposed to the NAS31A (I believe). I was surpri sed to learn that there is a wide variety of these carbs. specifically asse mbled with needles, jets, bleed holes, etc. for specific engines and fuel d elivery systems. (gravity or pressure)- There are also mods made if these are used in a tail dragger type planes. (They were not designed for tail d raggers.)- I was also happy to find out from checking the numbers on my c arb. that it is correct for my A-65. It currently has the original, not cop ied, neoprene tipped needle and round cornered seat. It appears to be like new, however, not knowing what types of fuels may or may not be readily ava ilable, I plan to switch to the SS. You can be assured I will be re-reading these documents over a few times an d digging out the other intell. I have for the various mods, tips, tricks a nd procedures.- I am curious to see how all this information compares and how to apply it to my carb. rebuild...which I may start soon. As I said, the above is what I remember reading from the very valuable docu ments I received from Doc. He received them from yet another, whom I can't remember his name.- Thanks to both of them for providing this information ! Michael Perez =0APietenpol HINT Videos =0AKaretaker Aero =0Awww.karetakeraero.com =0A ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:55:39 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Stromberg Notes. An additional comment about lapping - an easy way to lap a needle valve seat is to chuck the needle in your drillpress with the speed set as slow as it can go. Smear some Crest toothpaste (the original type) on the valve seat and with the needle turning slowly, use the drill press to push the needle into the valve seat (hold the seat so it can't spin). The toothpaste has enough abrasive in it to do a nice job of lapping the seat to get a good seal with the needle. That's how I did it when I overhauled my Stromberg and it has worked well. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Perez Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 9:31 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stromberg Notes. Crew, if I may... I just received last night a bunch of papers from Doc M. (BPA newsletter) about Stromberg carbs. There is some GREAT intell. in these papers. Anyhoo, from what I remember, (I read through them once kinda fast) original Strombergs used SS needles and sharp cornered, (the sealing edge, if you will) brass seat. Later came the noeprene tip SS needles that used a rounded cornered seat. This combination at the time was the fix all to carb. leaks. Having seen this, other companies jumped on the band wagon. These copied needles were sub standard with machining, finish and type of tip used. Once the FAA approved auto fuel and the fuel found it's way into these carbs. the neoprene tipped needles started to fail, as described in another post, by swelling. The original, high quality neoprene tipped needles work fine with aircraft fuel only, but are getting harder to find and distinguish from the "copies." The rounded seat required for this needle according to what I read, is almost impossible to find. Even so, these good needles are very old and most have hardened and are brittle. The solution next was the Delrin needle, which is impervious to both fuels and their additives, if any. This needle uses the sharp cornered seat like the SS needles. Problem now is this needle is light weight and a weight needs to be added to the float arm to help seat the needle. I believe if this mod is done, the carb. must be marked with a 1" dia. yellow dot. I am sure someone here can reference this mod and post it. Also, with this needle being relatively soft, lapping the needled has proved difficult and some have ruined them all together trying. Most have kept, or have gone back to the SS needle and sharp cornered seat as it can be used with any fuel and requires no mods to the float. (I believe this SS needle/brass seat combo. is what is readily available still.) As Ryan mentioned in a previous post, lapping helps mate the sealing surfaces. I have a NAS3B Stromberg as opposed to the NAS31A (I believe). I was surprised to learn that there is a wide variety of these carbs. specifically assembled with needles, jets, bleed holes, etc. for specific engines and fuel delivery systems. (gravity or pressure) There are also mods made if these are used in a tail dragger type planes. (They were not designed for tail draggers.) I was also happy to find out from checking the numbers on my carb. that it is correct for my A-65. It currently has the original, not copied, neoprene tipped needle and round cornered seat. It appears to be like new, however, not knowing what types of fuels may or may not be readily available, I plan to switch to the SS. You can be assured I will be re-reading these documents over a few times and digging out the other intell. I have for the various mods, tips, tricks and procedures. I am curious to see how all this information compares and how to apply it to my carb. rebuild...which I may start soon. As I said, the above is what I remember reading from the very valuable documents I received from Doc. He received them from yet another, whom I can't remember his name. Thanks to both of them for providing this information! Michael Perez Pietenpol HINT Videos Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:02:26 AM PST US From: steve@wotelectronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stromberg Notes. Michael, I'm not sure what document you are talking about, but I'd guess there is a copy of it in my "archive" of all things small Continental. Check the link below. I apologize for the sloppy organization, I intend to improve that when I retire in 32 years: http://www.wotelectronics.com/airplane/ [1] One of these documents probably has the information you are referring to. You may need to copy & paste these links: http://www.wotelectronics.com/airplane/Carburetor/Stromberg%20Needles%20and%20leaks.pdf http://www.wotelectronics.com/airplane/Carburetor/Stromberg%20Fuel%20Level%20setting%20&%20tools.pdf http://www.wotelectronics.com/airplane/Carburetor/Stromberg%20Fuel%20Level%20and%20Tools.pdf http://www.wotelectronics.com/airplane/Carburetor/Fuel%20level%20tube%20Stromberg.pdf http://www.wotelectronics.com/airplane/Carburetor/stromberg%20carb%20-%20float%20weight%20for%20delrin%20needle.pdf Steve Ruse Norman, OK On 2012-05-17 08:30, Michael Perez wrote: > Crew, if I may... > > I just received last night a bunch of papers from Doc M. (BPA newsletter) about Stromberg carbs. There is some GREAT intell. in these papers. > > Anyhoo, from what I remember, (I read through them once kinda fast) original Strombergs used SS needles and sharp cornered, (the sealing edge, if you will) brass seat. Later came the noeprene tip SS needles that used a rounded cornered seat. This combination at the time was the fix all to carb. leaks. Having seen this, other companies jumped on the band wagon. These copied needles were sub standard with machining, finish and type of tip used. Once the FAA approved auto fuel and the fuel found it's way into these carbs. the neoprene tipped needles started to fail, as described in another post, by swelling. The original, high quality neoprene tipped needles work fine with aircraft fuel only, but are getting harder to find and distinguish from the "copies." The rounded seat required for this needle according to what I read, is almost impossible to find. Even so, these good needles are very old and most have hardened and are brittle. > > The solution next was the Delrin needle, which is impervious to both fuels and their additives, if any. This needle uses the sharp cornered seat like the SS needles. Problem now is this needle is light weight and a weight needs to be added to the float arm to help seat the needle. I believe if this mod is done, the carb. must be marked with a 1" dia. yellow dot. I am sure someone here can reference this mod and post it. Also, with this needle being relatively soft, lapping the needled has proved difficult and some have ruined them all together trying. > > Most have kept, or have gone back to the SS needle and sharp cornered seat as it can be used with any fuel and requires no mods to the float. (I believe this SS needle/brass seat combo. is what is readily available still.) As Ryan mentioned in a previous post, lapping helps mate the sealing surfaces. > > I have a NAS3B Stromberg as opposed to the NAS31A (I believe). I was surprised to learn that there is a wide variety of these carbs. specifically assembled with needles, jets, bleed holes, etc. for specific engines and fuel delivery systems. (gravity or pressure) There are also mods made if these are used in a tail dragger type planes. (They were not designed for tail draggers.) I was also happy to find out from checking the numbers on my carb. that it is correct for my A-65. It currently has the original, not copied, neoprene tipped needle and round cornered seat. It appears to be like new, however, not knowing what types of fuels may or may not be readily available, I plan to switch to the SS. > > You can be assured I will be re-reading these documents over a few times and digging out the other intell. I have for the various mods, tips, tricks and procedures. I am curious to see how all this information compares and how to apply it to my carb. rebuild...which I may start soon. > > As I said, the above is what I remember reading from the very valuable documents I received from Doc. He received them from yet another, whom I can't remember his name. Thanks to both of them for providing this information! > > Michael Perez > Pietenpol HINT Videos > Karetaker Aero > www.karetakeraero.com > HTTP://WWW.MATRONICS.COM/CONTRIBUTION Links: ------ [1] http://www.wotelectronics.com/airplane/ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:37:18 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stromberg Notes. Hey Steve, the info you provide is great as well and I do have it. The papers I received yesterday from Doc were written by Bob Kachergius. Michael Perez Pietenpol HINT Videos Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:53:29 AM PST US From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Enid, OK fly-in Fly in Enid, OK. Enid Woodring Regional Airport May 19th, 2012 Military Appreciation Fly In Please come and have breakfast with us! Barnstormers will serve a buffet breakfast from 8-10am There will be door prizes!!! Identifier: KWDG Unicom: 122.95 Runways: 17/35 6,249 x 100 ft 13/31 3,149 x 108 ft AWOS: 120.625 (580-237-1475) Traffic Pattern: 17~left 35~right 13~left 31~right Elevation: 1167 KWDG Tower Frequency 118.90 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:14:57 AM PST US From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Avgas use in Continental A65 or A75 My humble experience with fuel. Lots of No Ethanol Auto fuel in Oklahoma. Not any Ethanol Free Autofuel in Texas. Even for Boats or 4 wheelers. I have not found any. Even in small towns. I have done several internet searches and have never seen it in person. Metroplexes with smog problems require Ethanol gas. I guess in Texas they dominate the market so much that you can't get it otherwise. In NW Oklahoma most of the Gas stations have signs that say "NO ETHANOL"or "Alcohol Free gas!" We fly Mid grade or premium Autofuel in my buddies 1947 Aeronca Champ (A-65) and in my 1948 Beech Bonanza (E-185-11). Though in Texas I use AVGAS in my Vtail. The regular unleaded octane is 86 or 87 Octane. Both STCs call for 87 Octane. I have noticed small problems when using the 87 Octane that disappear when I use 89 or higher in my Bonanza. OT For my Bonanza, I keep my right tank full of 100LL and run Autofuel in the other tanks. Upon landing I run 100LL until I think it is all the way from the tank and the Pressure Carb is full of it. 100LL is better for the rubber gaskets in my Carb. Unleaded car fuel hardens these Expensive rubber parts. 100LL is much more stable for storage. The Current Auto fuel formulas seem to turn to varnish much faster than they did even 10 years ago. For long term storage, I have had good success putting STABIL in my Old Suburbans when I have put them in storage for months and even years. Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:30:25 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Avgas use in Continental A65 or A75 From: "Bill Church" Steve, Not sure how up-to-date this information is, but it appears that there are some locations in TX that sell ethanol-free gas; http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=TX BC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373234#373234 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:09:28 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Jeff's plane From: "bender" Thanks Douwe .. I think its cool how many of us are building these time traveling machines. Jeff do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373246#373246 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:37:31 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: aileron gap From: "IT Girl" We used 3M clear packing tape. Sealed completely and you cannot see it unless you are looking for it. -------- Shelley Tumino IT Girl wife of "Axel" NX899KP DO NOT ARCHIVE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373250#373250 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:22:07 PM PST US From: "Ray Krause" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: aileron gap Is gap taping required if you build with aircraft piano hinges? Thanks, Ray Krause Ready to install hinges. ----- Original Message ----- From: "IT Girl" Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 3:37 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: aileron gap > > We used 3M clear packing tape. Sealed completely and you cannot see it > unless you are looking for it. > > -------- > Shelley Tumino > IT Girl > wife of "Axel" > NX899KP > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373250#373250 > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:25:38 PM PST US From: "Greg Cardinal" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: aileron gap No gap tape needed when using piano hinges. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Krause" Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 10:19 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: aileron gap > > > Is gap taping required if you build with aircraft piano hinges? > > Thanks, > > Ray Krause > Ready to install hinges. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "IT Girl" > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 3:37 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: aileron gap > > >> >> We used 3M clear packing tape. Sealed completely and you cannot see it >> unless you are looking for it. >> >> -------- >> Shelley Tumino >> IT Girl >> wife of "Axel" >> NX899KP >> >> DO NOT ARCHIVE >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373250#373250 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:42:37 PM PST US From: "Ray Krause" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: aileron gap Thanks, Ray Krause Sky Scout ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Cardinal" Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 9:23 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: aileron gap > > > No gap tape needed when using piano hinges. > > Greg Cardinal > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ray Krause" > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 10:19 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: aileron gap > > >> >> >> Is gap taping required if you build with aircraft piano hinges? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Ray Krause >> Ready to install hinges. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "IT Girl" >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 3:37 PM >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: aileron gap >> >> >>> >>> We used 3M clear packing tape. Sealed completely and you cannot see it >>> unless you are looking for it. >>> >>> -------- >>> Shelley Tumino >>> IT Girl >>> wife of "Axel" >>> NX899KP >>> >>> DO NOT ARCHIVE >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373250#373250 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.