Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:45 AM - Re: scarf joint for spar (nightmare)
2. 03:13 AM - Re: Re: scarf joint for spar (Ryan Mueller)
3. 03:28 AM - Re: Re: scarf joint for spar (Ryan Mueller)
4. 05:29 AM - additional info on scarfing can be found....... (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC])
5. 05:47 AM - Fun Pietenpol video (Jim Markle)
6. 07:15 AM - Engine mounts, vertical fin offsets and ash (woodflier@aol.com)
7. 07:40 AM - right thrust offset on Continental Piet motor mounts (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC])
8. 09:02 AM - Re: right thrust offset on Continental Piet motor mounts (Michael Perez)
9. 09:26 AM - Re: Engine mounts, vertical fin offsets and ash (TOM STINEMETZE)
10. 10:07 AM - Re: Westcoast Pietenpol flyin? (Ray Krause)
11. 10:17 AM - Re: right thrust offset on Continental Piet motor mounts (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC])
12. 10:29 AM - Re: Westcoast Pietenpol flyin? (Michael Groah)
13. 11:07 AM - Re: right thrust offset on Continental Piet motor mounts (Michael Perez)
14. 11:25 AM - Re: Engine mounts, vertical fin offsets and ash (Hans van der Voort)
15. 04:25 PM - Re: scarf joint for spar (helspersew@aol.com)
16. 04:49 PM - Re: scarf joint for spar (Bill Church)
17. 05:33 PM - Re: Fun Pietenpol video (aerocarjake)
18. 05:42 PM - Re: Engine mounts, vertical fin offsets and ash (kevinpurtee)
19. 05:48 PM - Re: additional info on scarfing can be found....... (kevinpurtee)
20. 07:34 PM - Re: scarf joint for spar (Gene Rambo)
21. 07:37 PM - Re: Westcoast Pietenpol flyin? (Ray Krause)
22. 07:43 PM - Re: scarf joint for spar (RBush96589@aol.com)
23. 09:11 PM - Re: additional info on scarfing can be found....... (Billy McCaskill)
24. 09:17 PM - Re: cable cutting (Billy McCaskill)
25. 11:04 PM - Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
26. 11:14 PM - Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: scarf joint for spar |
sensing a bit of sarcasm Ryan. my question "have seen 2 different ways of making
a scarf joint. joint is made along the face, or the edge. which way is acceptable
for a spar?" I did find the answer for that in chapter 1 section 40 figure
4 (not section 4). I then put out a statement about how I plan on building
my spar. Since this is probably the most critical part of a homebuilt aircraft
, and there is obviously several different ways of making a spar, and since
43-13 is "the bible" and we know the bible is never misinterpreted, I figured
this being a forum, it would be nice to hear from the folks who have actually
built , flown and know others who have done the same. Based on the responses and
some questioning of the "bible", I'm glad I brought up the subject. forgive
me if I incorrectly sensed your sarcasm. haven't had my coffee yet.
Thanks to the others for your responses, great pics Jack.
Paul
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374455#374455
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: scarf joint for spar |
No, that would be Chapter 1, Section 4, Item 1-40 you are probably
referring to; Chapter 1, on wood structures, has only 5 sections. 43:13 is
not biblical, it's just approved data. If you follow the method illustrated
(the only one I see therein), you can reasonably be assured that your
methods are sound.
Ryan
On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 4:45 AM, nightmare <pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com>wrote:
> pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com>
>
> sensing a bit of sarcasm Ryan. my question "have seen 2 different ways of
> making a scarf joint. joint is made along the face, or the edge. which way
> is acceptable for a spar?" I did find the answer for that in chapter 1
> section 40 figure 4 (not section 4). I then put out a statement about how I
> plan on building my spar. Since this is probably the most critical part of
> a homebuilt aircraft , and there is obviously several different ways of
> making a spar, and since 43-13 is "the bible" and we know the bible is
> never misinterpreted, I figured this being a forum, it would be nice to
> hear from the folks who have actually built , flown and know others who
> have done the same. Based on the responses and some questioning of the
> "bible", I'm glad I brought up the subject. forgive me if I incorrectly
> sensed your sarcasm. haven't had my coffee yet.
> Thanks to the others for your responses, great pics Jack.
> Paul
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374455#374455
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: scarf joint for spar |
About $215 will net you Pietenpol plans, all 4 Bingelis books, and a
printed copy of AC 43.13....all come highly recommended
do not archive
On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 5:12 AM, Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com> wrote:
> No, that would be Chapter 1, Section 4, Item 1-40 you are probably
> referring to; Chapter 1, on wood structures, has only 5 sections. 43:13 is
> not biblical, it's just approved data. If you follow the method illustrated
> (the only one I see therein), you can reasonably be assured that your
> methods are sound.
>
> Ryan
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 4:45 AM, nightmare <pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com>wrote:
>
>> pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com>
>>
>> sensing a bit of sarcasm Ryan. my question "have seen 2 different ways of
>> making a scarf joint. joint is made along the face, or the edge. which way
>> is acceptable for a spar?" I did find the answer for that in chapter 1
>> section 40 figure 4 (not section 4). I then put out a statement about how I
>> plan on building my spar. Since this is probably the most critical part of
>> a homebuilt aircraft , and there is obviously several different ways of
>> making a spar, and since 43-13 is "the bible" and we know the bible is
>> never misinterpreted, I figured this being a forum, it would be nice to
>> hear from the folks who have actually built , flown and know others who
>> have done the same. Based on the responses and some questioning of the
>> "bible", I'm glad I brought up the subject. forgive me if I incorrectly
>> sensed your sarcasm. haven't had my coffee yet.
>> Thanks to the others for your responses, great pics Jack.
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374455#374455
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | additional info on scarfing can be found....... |
In the Tony Bingelis books. Not to beat a really dead horse but I'm amaz
ed at how many
of the questions about building are covered in the Bingelis book series inc
luding how to make
a sound and proper scarf joint.
Mike C.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Fun Pietenpol video |
This is from the Pietenpol group on Facebook...for those of you NOT on Facebook
(and good for you!).......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OHxkjEn6IA&feature=colike
If that link fails, search Youtube for: "Pietenpol gyroflyer582"
Jim in Pryor
NX1929J
Message 6
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| Subject: | Engine mounts, vertical fin offsets and ash |
To conserve posts, I'm commenting on a few threads here:
1. Jack Phillips's engine mount jig worked beautifully for me. If he says t
hat he put 9/16 offset for the engine into it, which sounds about right, th
en my experience has been that it works well for an A-65.
2. I offset my vertical fin 3/4" and that seems about right, again for the
A-65 with the 9/16 offset on the mount. Realize that that engine offset and
fin offset should be working together make the airplane fly straight when
in level flight without any rudder input. I can't tell you which modificat
ion results in more effect but the combination I have works well.
3. I bought the ash pieces that form the carry-through for the loads on the
main gear and wing struts from Paxton Lumber Company probably 12 years ago
. I can't recall whether I got a single 4X4 piece and cut it down or had th
em mill me pieces to the correct dimension but it was beautiful, straight g
rained wood. They're on the web but also have locations in several mid-west
ern cities.
As Jack correctly pointed out, ash is much stronger, though heavier cubic i
nch for inch, than Sitka spruce. I was asked to go look at Piet a guy had b
ought, recently completed and certified with the 40 hours flown off. The ca
rry through pieces were some kind of plywood, didn't even appear to be airc
raft grade. Wood substitution in a lot of the structure is a Pietenpol trad
ition but this particular area gets a lot of load and is pretty critical fo
r the overall structural integrity of the airplane. I'm sure there are prob
ably hardwoods that could be substituted for white ash, but ash readily ava
ilable, not particularly expensive considering the small amount needed, and
proven over 80 years.
Matt Paxton
Message 7
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| Subject: | right thrust offset on Continental Piet motor mounts |
Collecting all of the good input on this subject and talking with Mike Pere
z as he is starting to
put his engine mount together. I followed Frank Pavliga's A-65 setup by u
sing large washers
behind the left motor mount rubbers to give me right thrust offset. The be
auty here is that you
can add and subtract these washers as you see fit during the trimming and f
light test periods.
The only limitation you might run into is cowling/nosebowl interference but
it is worth a try if
your plane doesn't fly quite true. You can also washer in downthrust if yo
u think it needs it but
the Pietenpol motor mount gives enough downthrust (I believe) as drawn/desi
gned.
Was just talking with Mike yesterday about the (okay...I'm even getting sic
k of myself mentioning
my Uncle Tony but...) flight test/ wing-aileron-tailfeather procedure that
Tony describes in his books.
I followed that procedure adjusting wing forks and such and finally added a
small ground-adjustable
aluminum trim tab to the rudder that requires just a little offset for mine
to fly true, feet flat, hands-off.
It took some doing finding calm air and run these up and down trials but we
ll worth it. Who knows,
I may have even gained 2 mph with the drag reduction in the process.
Mike C.
[cid:image001.png@01CD3FE2.DC077F10] [cid:image002.png@01CD3FE2.DC077F10]
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: right thrust offset on Continental Piet motor mounts |
Mike, to be clear and to be sure I heard you correctly during our talks...y
ou built your engine mount with some right thrust and then- added washers
later during flight testing, correct?
Michael Perez
=0APietenpol HINT Videos
=0AKaretaker Aero
=0Awww.karetakeraero.com
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Engine mounts, vertical fin offsets and ash |
Since the Corvair engine turns the opposite of all the "real" aircraft engines,
does the fin offset also become reversed? If so, what offset has been used?
Thanks,
Tom Stinemetze
N328Xray
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Westcoast Pietenpol flyin? |
Dear group,
Is it correct that the flyin at Fraiser Lake is tomorrow? I have heard no
mention about it lately.
Thanks,
Ray Krause
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2012 5:46 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fun Pietenpol video
> <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
>
> This is from the Pietenpol group on Facebook...for those of you NOT on
> Facebook (and good for you!).......
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OHxkjEn6IA&feature=colike
>
> If that link fails, search Youtube for: "Pietenpol gyroflyer582"
>
> Jim in Pryor
> NX1929J
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | right thrust offset on Continental Piet motor mounts |
Yes Mike P., I recall building in some right offset into my motor mount jig
but just not sure how much. I then added
the washers. I'll have to measure someday when the cowling is off just wh
at that offset is.
I actually added the washers before I even flew the plane and they were so
close after rigging and test flying/ adjusting
that I added that ground-adjustable aluminum trim tab on the rudder so I w
ouldn't have to fuss with adding washers,
getting a cherry picker..etc.
Mike C.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Westcoast Pietenpol flyin? |
Yes. The west coast gathering is tomorrow. Are you going to make it?
Mike Groah.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 1, 2012, at 10:07 AM, "Ray Krause" <Raykrause@frontiernet.net> wrote:
>
> Dear group,
>
> Is it correct that the flyin at Fraiser Lake is tomorrow? I have heard no mention
about it lately.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ray Krause
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
> To: "Pietenpol List" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, June 01, 2012 5:46 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fun Pietenpol video
>
>
>>
>> This is from the Pietenpol group on Facebook...for those of you NOT on Facebook
(and good for you!).......
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OHxkjEn6IA&feature=colike
>>
>> If that link fails, search Youtube for: "Pietenpol gyroflyer582"
>>
>> Jim in Pryor
>> NX1929J
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | right thrust offset on Continental Piet motor mounts |
Cool. Good stuff...thanks for all your help.
Michael Perez
Pietenpol HINT Videos
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Engine mounts, vertical fin offsets and ash |
Tom,=0A-=0AYes, it does.=0A-=0AThe original Pietenpol engine mount for
the Corvair has some off sett build in.=0A-=0ABut I added a 3/8 on the Fi
n also=0A-=0AHans=0ANX 15KV=0AWaller, TX=0A =0A=0A_______________________
_________=0A From: TOM STINEMETZE <TOMS@mcpcity.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@m
atronics.com =0ASent: Friday, June 1, 2012 11:26 AM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpo
l-List: Engine mounts, vertical fin offsets and ash=0A =0A--> Pietenpol-L
ist message posted by: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS@mcpcity.com>=0A=0ASince the C
orvair engine turns the opposite of all the "real" aircraft engines, does t
he fin offset also become reversed?- If so, what offset has been used?=0A
===========
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: scarf joint for spar |
Good to hear from you Gene Rambo. (I just know your silence is due to your
secret planning for a triumphant Brodhead arrival)
Many moons ago (1972) when I went to A & P school, the "bible" AC43.13 stat
ed that an acceptable spar scarf joint was 12:1. I really had to scratch my
head when the "new" version came out with a 15:1 slope. Why was this chang
ed? Is there some historical data of spar failures at the old 12:1 slope? I
highly doubt it. I suspect some FAA bureaucrat in a dusty back corner thou
ght that it would be "safer" at 15:1.
Dan Helsper
Safely back in Puryear, TN
Waldo: "I really do love you Maudy"................Maudy: "Except in flyin
g weather"
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Rambo <generambo@msn.com>
Sent: Thu, May 31, 2012 5:30 pm
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: scarf joint for spar
No it hasn't. It WAS 12 to 1, with 10 to 1 minimum. New 43.13 went to 15
to 1.
Gene
do not archive
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: scarf joint for spar
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> From: gboothe5@comcast.net
> Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 22:20:18 +0000
>
>
> Always been 15 to 1.
>
> Gary
> Sent on the Sprint=C2=AE Now Network from my BlackBerry=C2=AE
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Ash <ashcan@earthlink.net>
> Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 18:14:05
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
joint for spar
>
>
> I'd heard word-of-mouth at SNF that the recommended scarfing slope in AC
43-13 (Chapter 1, somewhere around page 15) had increased to 15 to 1. I don
't remember what it used to be, or if that was a line just to sucker me in,
but you might want to check it out just in case.
>
> Jim Ash
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: John Franklin <jbfjr@peoplepc.com>
> >Sent: May 31, 2012 4:43 PM
> >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: scarf joint for spar
> >
> >
> >My spars were built as an I-beam design with 3/8" ply sandwiched between
5/16" x 1" Douglas fir strips. The scarf joints, following the 15:1 rule,
were about 6" in length and were laminated with 1/8" ply. A 6" scarf is a p
ain in the arse to fit properly. Disclaimer here, I haven't flown these win
gs yet!
> >
> >John Franklin
> >Prairie Aire 4TA0
> >GN-1 / Corvair
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >>From: nightmare <pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com>
> >>Sent: May 31, 2012 2:19 PM
> >>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> >>Subject: Pietenpol-List: scarf joint for spar
> >>
oo.com>
> >>
> >>have seen 2 different ways of making a scarf joint. joint is made along
the face, or the edge. I know 43-13 probably explains it, but I dont have
a copy yet. which way is acceptable for a spar. I plan on 3/4 stock with 1/
8 inch lamination on each side. Sorry if this is obvious by looking at plan
s too, but dont have those yet either. curiosity has gotten the best of me.
thanks; Paul
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Read this topic online here:
> >>
> >>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374412#374412
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
=======================
&g======
>
>
>
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: scarf joint for spar |
Getting back to the original question, Paul, it's funny that you should be asking
this question, even thought you do not have a set of plans, because the Pietenpol
plans show a method of spar splicing that is NOT recommended (see attached
clip from the plans). Probably all of the early Pietenpol aircraft used this
method, and I don't think that they fell from the skies as a result, but it
is not a very strong method of splicing.
As it happens, the bulk of the heavy lifting is performed by the lift struts. The
3 piece wing has a 3 piece spar, held together with a few bolts, but actually
free to pivot (if the lift struts weren't there)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374499#374499
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dwg_no_5_159.jpg
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Fun Pietenpol video |
Scary, treacherous, and thrilling...!!
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374501#374501
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Engine mounts, vertical fin offsets and ash |
Hi Tom - I left everything at zero and, predictably, require lots of left pedal.
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/San Marcos, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374502#374502
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: additional info on scarfing can be found....... |
So what I hear you saying, Mike, is that I should buy all four Bingelis books and
read them...
do not archive
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/San Marcos, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374503#374503
Message 20
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| Subject: | scarf joint for spar |
The "NEW" 43.13 changed lots. It did away with hand spliced (or at least w
rap soldered) cable splices=2C changed the scarf joint criteria=2C and does
it even mention fabric covering anymore?? It was dumbed down for airline-
bound mechanics. I still use my old 43.13=2C AND my CAM 18. They WERE app
roved=2C and nothing says that the methods have been disproven. I have lots
of secrets . . . . .. Will says we are gonna flame the "mean man" . . .
Genedo not archive
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: scarf joint for spar
From: helspersew@aol.com
Good to hear from you Gene Rambo. (I just know your silence is due to your
secret planning for a triumphant Brodhead arrival)
Many moons ago (1972) when I went to A & P school=2C the "bible" AC43.13 st
ated that an acceptable spar scarf joint was 12:1. I really had to scratch
my head when the "new" version came out with a 15:1 slope. Why was this cha
nged? Is there some historical data of spar failures at the old 12:1 slope?
I highly doubt it. I suspect some FAA bureaucrat in a dusty back corner th
ought that it would be "safer" at 15:1.
Dan Helsper
Safely back in Puryear=2C TN
Waldo: "I really do love you Maudy"................Maudy: "Except in flyin
g weather"
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Rambo <generambo@msn.com>
Sent: Thu=2C May 31=2C 2012 5:30 pm
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: scarf joint for spar
No it hasn't. It WAS 12 to 1=2C with 10 to 1 minimum. New 43.13 went to 1
5 to 1.
Gene
do not archive
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: scarf joint for spar
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> From: gboothe5@comcast.net
> Date: Thu=2C 31 May 2012 22:20:18 +0000
>
>
> Always been 15 to 1.
>
> Gary
> Sent on the Sprint=AE Now Network from my BlackBerry=AE
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Ash <ashcan@earthlink.net>
> Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> Date: Thu=2C 31 May 2012 18:14:05
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
joint for spar
>
>
> I'd heard word-of-mouth at SNF that the recommended scarfing slope in AC
43-13 (Chapter 1=2C somewhere around page 15) had increased to 15 to 1. I d
on't remember what it used to be=2C or if that was a line just to sucker me
in=2C but you might want to check it out just in case.
>
> Jim Ash
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: John Franklin <jbfjr@peoplepc.com>
> >Sent: May 31=2C 2012 4:43 PM
> >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: scarf joint for spar
> >
> >
> >My spars were built as an I-beam design with 3/8" ply sandwiched between
5/16" x 1" Douglas fir strips. The scarf joints=2C following the 15:1 rule
=2C were about 6" in length and were laminated with 1/8" ply. A 6" scarf is
a pain in the arse to fit properly. Disclaimer here=2C I haven't flown the
se wings yet!
> >
> >John Franklin
> >Prairie Aire 4TA0
> >GN-1 / Corvair
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >>From: nightmare <pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com>
> >>Sent: May 31=2C 2012 2:19 PM
> >>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> >>Subject: Pietenpol-List: scarf joint for spar
> >>
oo.com>
> >>
> >>have seen 2 different ways of making a scarf joint. joint is made along
the face=2C or the edge. I know 43-13 probably explains it=2C but I dont h
ave a copy yet. which way is acceptable for a spar. I plan on 3/4 stock wit
h 1/8 inch lamination on each side. Sorry if this is obvious by looking at
plans too=2C but dont have those yet either. curiosity has gotten the best
of me. thanks=3B Paul
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Read this topic online here:
> >>
> >>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374412#374412
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
&g======
>
>
>
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | Re: Westcoast Pietenpol flyin? |
Plan to depart Colusa at around 8 AM ..... but in my Waiex.
Thanks,
Ray
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Groah" <dskogrover@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2012 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Westcoast Pietenpol flyin?
>
> Yes. The west coast gathering is tomorrow. Are you going to make it?
>
> Mike Groah.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 1, 2012, at 10:07 AM, "Ray Krause" <Raykrause@frontiernet.net>
> wrote:
>
>> <Raykrause@frontiernet.net>
>>
>> Dear group,
>>
>> Is it correct that the flyin at Fraiser Lake is tomorrow? I have heard
>> no mention about it lately.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Ray Krause
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Markle"
>> <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
>> To: "Pietenpol List" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Friday, June 01, 2012 5:46 AM
>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fun Pietenpol video
>>
>>
>>> <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
>>>
>>> This is from the Pietenpol group on Facebook...for those of you NOT on
>>> Facebook (and good for you!).......
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OHxkjEn6IA&feature=colike
>>>
>>> If that link fails, search Youtube for: "Pietenpol gyroflyer582"
>>>
>>> Jim in Pryor
>>> NX1929J
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Re: scarf joint for spar |
hey Dan,
dont know if you know about it or not but the ladies love taildraggers
org.is having their national get together in savannah tn (snh) this week end.
they are having a poker run ,flyout lunch, live band and guest
speakers.food and socializing if you are looking for some where to go. I plan on
flying down in the morning and will probably camp tomorrow night and come back
home sunday afternoon.
Randy Bush
NX294RB
do not archive
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: additional info on scarfing can be found....... |
Even if you choose not to read them, I understand that they make good clamping
weights while the ribs are still in the rib jig...
do not archive
--------
Billy McCaskill
Baker, LA
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374510#374510
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Re: cable cutting |
I have those cutters, Oscar. And I would NOT want to shake the hand of the man
who can cut 7/8" cable with these! I used them to cut some 1" diameter heavy
duty rubber air conditioning hose this evening, and while it was manageable,
it was not very easy. I do believe that these cutters would easily handle 3/32"
or 1/8" aircraft cable, and copper electrical cable up to about 1/2". I would
not care to try it on anything much more substantial than that.
--------
Billy McCaskill
Baker, LA
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374511#374511
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
complete Pietenpol-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ]
This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
************************************************************
******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS *******
************************************************************
PLEASE READ. This document contains Pietenpol-List policies and information
for new and old subscribers. Understanding the Pietenpol-List policies will
minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the Pietenpol-List
running smoothly for all of us.
******************************************
*** Quick Start Guide to List Features ***
******************************************
There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each
one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator
you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this
List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
****************************************
*** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe ***
****************************************
Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and
select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You
may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of
your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the
complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information.
The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption
process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request
was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed.
You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request.
The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post
until you receive the second conformation email message.
*****************************
*** How to Post a Message ***
*****************************
Send an email message to:
pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed
to the List.
*****************************************************
*** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post ***
*****************************************************
When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message
is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the
email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor.
If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it
is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that
gets posted to the Lists.
Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important
with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook
or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be
functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM
test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List:
smith@machine.domain.com
smith@domain.com
Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure
your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to
the List.
**************************************
*** Enclosure Support on the Lists ***
**************************************
Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets
is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these
are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the
content of enclosures.
These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics
Lists:
1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists.
2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists.
3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site.
4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives.
5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature.
6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed:
bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls
All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to
sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from
a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk.
7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting
to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down
the process of posting the message !!
Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules
could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists.
1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files
you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there
are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post
30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these
folks and the rest of us, for that matter.
2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000
pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just
unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture
down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the
file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less.
Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically
scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it!
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
Look for the link "Image Resizer"
3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not
post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother.
And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even
questionable. !!
4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members
subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting
to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and
BE COURTEOUS!
Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where
you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server
for long time viewing and availability.
*******************
*** Digest Mode ***
*******************
Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started.
This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:"
and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting
of a line of underscores.
Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be
combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list.
To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form
described above, and just select the Digest version of the List.
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions
of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable.
Now some caveats:
* Messages sent to "pietenpol-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard
email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
digest List.
* If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you
will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
the day.
* If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the
normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change
the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please
*do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.
****************************
*** List Digest Browser ***
****************************
An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to
the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found
at the following location:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
email distribution as normal.
**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the Pietenpol-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
*******************************
*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/pietenpol-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Pietenpol-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Pietenpol-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* Pietenpol-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Pietenpol
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Pietenpol-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
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[This is an automated posting.]
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Message 26
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| Subject: | Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Pietenpol-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Pietenpol-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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