---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 06/06/12: 44 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:13 AM - Re: OK, gicving up ONE of my secrets. . . . . (Clif Dawson) 2. 02:23 AM - Re: Re: t-nuts vs anchor nuts (Chris) 3. 02:28 AM - Re: cable guides (Chris) 4. 04:15 AM - Re: 1st flight--flaring high in a Pietenpol (Jerry Dotson) 5. 04:18 AM - Re: Re: t-nuts vs anchor nuts (helspersew@aol.com) 6. 04:40 AM - Re: NX510JD IS FLIGHT READY (Jerry Dotson) 7. 05:01 AM - Re: Re: t-nuts vs anchor nuts (Jack Phillips) 8. 05:08 AM - Re: Re: 1st flight--flaring high in a Pietenpol (Jack Phillips) 9. 05:34 AM - Re: NX510JD IS FLIGHT READY (kevinpurtee) 10. 05:55 AM - landing a Piet (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]) 11. 06:35 AM - Another Pietenpol Certified (woodflier@aol.com) 12. 06:44 AM - Re: Cable guides (woodflier@aol.com) 13. 08:00 AM - Re: Hegy prop; engine offset washers (AircamperN11MS) 14. 08:10 AM - Re: Re: Hegy prop; engine offset washers (Gary Boothe) 15. 08:28 AM - Re: Hegy prop; engine offset washers (AircamperN11MS) 16. 08:58 AM - Re: NX510JD IS FLIGHT READY (aerocarjake) 17. 09:48 AM - Re: Re: NX510JD IS FLIGHT READY (Michael Perez) 18. 10:23 AM - Re: t-nuts vs anchor nuts (j_dunavin) 19. 10:38 AM - Re: Formation Flying (j_dunavin) 20. 11:32 AM - passengers (bender) 21. 11:39 AM - Re: Re: t-nuts vs anchor nuts (C N Campbell) 22. 11:44 AM - Re: passengers (Jack Phillips) 23. 11:46 AM - Re: passengers (brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com) 24. 11:50 AM - Re: cable guides (C N Campbell) 25. 12:03 PM - Re: passengers (C N Campbell) 26. 12:21 PM - Going off-list for a while (TOM STINEMETZE) 27. 12:50 PM - Re: passengers (John Francis) 28. 02:03 PM - Re: Going off-list for a while (Jim Boyer) 29. 02:57 PM - Re: passengers (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]) 30. 02:59 PM - Wing attachment (Ken Bickers) 31. 04:08 PM - Re: Re: passengers (Greg Cardinal) 32. 04:12 PM - Re: Wing attachment (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]) 33. 04:47 PM - Re: passengers (bender) 34. 05:02 PM - Re: Wing attachment (Michael Perez) 35. 05:05 PM - Re: Going off-list for a while (Jerry Dotson) 36. 06:10 PM - Re: Re: passengers (Jack Phillips) 37. 06:33 PM - Re: t-nuts vs anchor nuts (nightmare) 38. 06:51 PM - Re: Going off-list for a while (gboothe5@comcast.net) 39. 07:53 PM - Re: Re: passengers (Ryan Mueller) 40. 08:05 PM - Re: Re: passengers (John Hofmann) 41. 09:07 PM - Re: Re: t-nuts vs anchor nuts (Ray Krause) 42. 09:18 PM - Re: Re: t-nuts vs anchor nuts (Gene Rambo) 43. 09:42 PM - Re: passengers (Gene Rambo) 44. 10:10 PM - Re: Wing attachment (Ken Bickers) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:13:21 AM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OK, gicving up ONE of my secrets. . . . . Ah, shades of 'Magnificent Men". Clif do not archive Sepia Clif, sepia..... :) Ryan do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:23:22 AM PST US From: "Chris" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: t-nuts vs anchor nuts Ray Mine are on 7 to 8 inch centers. Not flight tested but I have tugged on the aileron and have not noticed any problem. I was more worried about making a weak spot along the aileron spar if I put them closer. If you look at mike Cuy's aileron hinges his are spread apart too. Remember the flight speed between the aluminum plane and the Pietenpol is way different. On a faster plane I would want them closer. Chris Sacramento, Ca Westcoastpiet.com _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Krause Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 8:03 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: t-nuts vs anchor nuts What spacing did you use with the T nuts/screws on the ailerons? When using the piano MS--- type hinges on an aluminum plane, we put one rivet at each hinge extension (the attach point). I am using the 1" wide MS --- aluminum piano hinges and have installed 8-24 screws and the self locking nut plates at every 3rd hinge extension. This does not seem as good as, or as stable, as having an anchor at each hinge extension. Placing the nut plate/screws any closer together may create a "fault line", or weak point, along the aileron beams (spars). Also, the self locking (slightly ovaled) nut plates work very well with bolts with hex heads. But TOO well with Phillip head screws. The nut plates are so tight they cause the heads to strip out before the screw can be secured. I have opened the nut plates with an 8-24 tap before installation so the oval is not so severe. I will use loctite when I make the final installation. Suggestions would help. Thanks in advance..... Ray Krause Building the Sky Scout. ----- Original Message ----- From: shad bell Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 6:00 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: t-nuts vs anchor nuts You could try crimping the T nut a little bit, to a slight oval shape to make it more like a lock-nut. I have never tried it (just popped in my head after replacing a couple nutplates at work today) but it might be worth experimenting. Otherwise just use some good locktight. We have 304+hrs with T-nuts on the aileron hinges and no problems. Shad --- On Tue, 6/5/12, John Francis wrote: From: John Francis Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: t-nuts vs anchor nuts > Yes, to mount the piano hinge. Thanks. -------- John Francis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374762#374762 http://forums.matronbsp; - List Contribution Web Site - href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:28:19 AM PST US From: "Chris" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cable guides Ralph Don't forget to add cable guards to the pulleys Chris Sacramento, Ca Westcoastpiet.com _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 7:08 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: cable guides The plans seem to show cable guides just outboard of the pulley going to the stick and another in the area where the strut joins the spar. Are just these two required or have people included more guides along the distance? Ralph in South Dakota ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:15:14 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: 1st flight--flaring high in a Pietenpol From: "Jerry Dotson" Thanks Shad. While I am not a fan of wheel landings I think at least the first one will be a wheel holding some power until the wheels roll. Would 55 be too fast on final? do not archive -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 thru covering and painting, now in final assembly 21" wheels Lycoming O-235 C2C Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374826#374826 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:18:44 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: t-nuts vs anchor nuts From: helspersew@aol.com T-nuts are fine. I put a dab of epoxy on each, then a drop of Locktite on t he screws. But here is a twist. Every other screw was a wood screw just scr ewed into the wood. Non of mine have moved so far. Also you have the paint on the screw heads to hold them in. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: Gene Rambo Sent: Tue, Jun 5, 2012 3:45 pm Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: t-nuts vs anchor nuts Actually, you can safety tee nuts. I epoxied mine in, but at the last minu te before covering I cut a bunch of strips of thin plywood say, 1/2" by 1" and drilled a hole in the middle for the screw to protrude through. Then I glued and nailed one across each tee nut. They won't push out now . . . Gene do not archive > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: t-nuts vs anchor nuts > From: j_dunavin@hotmail.com > Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 10:37:23 -0700 > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > I'm not at that point yet, so I couldn't say for for sure how I will do m ine, BUT if your technical advisor says to use anchor nuts or nut plates, t hen I would. There is no way to saftey a tee nut, unless you used lock tigh t. > These nut plates are all metal and not too expensive: > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/anchornuts4.php > and if you look at this doc: > http://www.coastfab.com/images/pdf/2010/nutplates_ms21059_ms21061.pdf > They self lock due to the fact that the hole is a little out of round. > > If all else fails, this is actual AN hardware, not true value hardware. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374771#374771 > > > > > > <============= > > > -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:40:09 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: NX510JD IS FLIGHT READY From: "Jerry Dotson" First flight won't be today :( 6 AM radar................. do not archive -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 thru covering and painting, now in final assembly 21" wheels Lycoming O-235 C2C Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374830#374830 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/a37_150.jpg ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:01:07 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: t-nuts vs anchor nuts Mine are on 2" centers, and I also used # 8 MS24693 screws to attach into nutplates. I did exactly the same as Ray - used a tap to partially open the self-locking feature, otherwise the heads would strip before I got the screws all the way in. No problems yet, with 260 hours and 7 years on them. I do inspect the screws on each preflight inspection - easy to do, just lift the aileron and look to see that all screws are flush. Takes about 2 seconds per side. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 5:04 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: t-nuts vs anchor nuts Ray Mine are on 7 to 8 inch centers. Not flight tested but I have tugged on the aileron and have not noticed any problem. I was more worried about making a weak spot along the aileron spar if I put them closer. If you look at mike Cuy's aileron hinges his are spread apart too. Remember the flight speed between the aluminum plane and the Pietenpol is way different. On a faster plane I would want them closer. Chris Sacramento, Ca Westcoastpiet.com _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Krause Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 8:03 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: t-nuts vs anchor nuts What spacing did you use with the T nuts/screws on the ailerons? When using the piano MS--- type hinges on an aluminum plane, we put one rivet at each hinge extension (the attach point). I am using the 1" wide MS --- aluminum piano hinges and have installed 8-24 screws and the self locking nut plates at every 3rd hinge extension. This does not seem as good as, or as stable, as having an anchor at each hinge extension. Placing the nut plate/screws any closer together may create a "fault line", or weak point, along the aileron beams (spars). Also, the self locking (slightly ovaled) nut plates work very well with bolts with hex heads. But TOO well with Phillip head screws. The nut plates are so tight they cause the heads to strip out before the screw can be secured. I have opened the nut plates with an 8-24 tap before installation so the oval is not so severe. I will use loctite when I make the final installation. Suggestions would help. Thanks in advance..... Ray Krause Building the Sky Scout. ----- Original Message ----- From: shad bell Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 6:00 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: t-nuts vs anchor nuts You could try crimping the T nut a little bit, to a slight oval shape to make it more like a lock-nut. I have never tried it (just popped in my head after replacing a couple nutplates at work today) but it might be worth experimenting. Otherwise just use some good locktight. We have 304+hrs with T-nuts on the aileron hinges and no problems. Shad --- On Tue, 6/5/12, John Francis wrote: From: John Francis Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: t-nuts vs anchor nuts > Yes, to mount the piano hinge. Thanks. -------- John Francis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374762#374762 http://forums.matronbsp; - List Contribution Web Site - href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:08:35 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: 1st flight--flaring high in a Pietenpol Jerry, I concur with everything both Mike Cuy and Shad Bell have offered you. I normally approach at 55, carrying about 1200 RPM (A65 Continental) and I then make a normal flare and 3-point landing (well, that's the goal - it doesn't always work out that way), and I don't cut the power to idle until the wheels are on the ground if there's plenty of runway. Once you get used to it, you can easily make the approach and landing with the power at idle the whole way, but I wouldn't recommend starting out that way. With no power on, the time between starting your flare at 50 -55 and the stall at 35-40 is somewhere around two seconds, and it seems much quicker than that. Unless you have the wheels within 12" of the runway when you flare, you'll likely stall and drop it in if you don't carry a little power. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Dotson Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 7:12 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: 1st flight--flaring high in a Pietenpol Thanks Shad. While I am not a fan of wheel landings I think at least the first one will be a wheel holding some power until the wheels roll. Would 55 be too fast on final? do not archive -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 thru covering and painting, now in final assembly 21" wheels Lycoming O-235 C2C Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374826#374826 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:34:03 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: NX510JD IS FLIGHT READY From: "kevinpurtee" Congratulations, Jerry! Good stuff. do not archive -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/San Marcos, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374837#374837 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:55:19 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: landing a Piet Great words from Jack and Shad on their experiences flying an approach and landing a Pietenpol. I too fly my final approach at 55 mph with a little power held in to pretty close to the runway. Like jack said, unless you have the wheels within 12" of the runway there will probably be a thunk. The plane three points wonderfully too and even in crosswinds I three point. I've never been able to master the wheel landing except in the Corby Starlet I owned for a few years. The Piet is a surprisingly good crosswind airplane. So glad you're getting a good feel for the ground handling Jerry. I did the same thing and it paid off getting that view and training my feet. I like the fact that you're patient for weather too--so many videos of 1st flights I see show trees blowing around and wind noise in the microphone. I don't get that. It takes 3, 6, 10, 20 years to build a plane but some have to fly it right away after it gets legal in lousy weather conditions. Glad I have a little chicken in me. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:35:27 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Another Pietenpol Certified From: woodflier@aol.com Congratulations, Jerry! Ain't that a terrific feeling. I had the same probl em last year when I got my airworthiness. It was pouring rain during the inspection and I cou ldn't do the first flight for several days. It was worth the wait. Can't wait to hear ho w it goes. Matt Paxton NX629ML The DAR came and certified my Pietenpol this morning. The weather is not cooperating. The forecasts look like it will be Saturday at least before this windy low passes out of here. Lots of covers to put on before then any way. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:44:46 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cable guides From: woodflier@aol.com My Technical Adviser said I needed cable guides on all pulleys where the ca ble turned more than a few degrees. I installed a bunch of them. The consequence of a jamme d control cable is not one I care to consider. I used pulleys for the bend the aileron cables make at the back seat and they all got cable guards there also. Matt Paxton NX629ML Time: 07:36:24 PM PST US From: "Ralph" Subject: Pietenpol-List: cable guides The plans seem to show cable guides just outboard of the pulley going to the stick and another in the area where the strut joins the spar. Are just these two required or have people included more guides along the distance? Ralph in South Dakota ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:00:44 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hegy prop; engine offset washers From: "AircamperN11MS" Thanks for the reply Oscar. That prop works very well with my C-85 on my Piet. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374850#374850 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:10:38 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hegy prop; engine offset washers Scott, Missed you at Frazer Lake! Hope you make it next year... Gary Boothe NX308MB Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AircamperN11MS Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 8:00 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hegy prop; engine offset washers --> Thanks for the reply Oscar. That prop works very well with my C-85 on my Piet. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374850#374850 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:28:07 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hegy prop; engine offset washers From: "AircamperN11MS" Gary, I am looking forward to next year. My wife had family show up from Florida so I needed to stay behind this year. It looks like you had good weather which makes me feel that much worse about not going. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374853#374853 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:58:53 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: NX510JD IS FLIGHT READY From: "aerocarjake" Great stuff Jerry - Congrats.......!! -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374857#374857 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:48:47 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: NX510JD IS FLIGHT READY Good to hear another builder has persevered and finished quite the long pro ject!- I wish you the best on your first flight...I am sure it will be a thrill! Michael Perez =0APietenpol HINT Videos =0AKaretaker Aero =0Awww.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:23:42 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: t-nuts vs anchor nuts From: "j_dunavin" > Actually, you can safety tee nuts. I epoxied mine in, but at the last minute before covering I cut a bunch of strips of thinplywood say, 1/2" by 1" and drilled a hole in the middle for the screw to protrude through. Then I glued and nailed one across each tee nut. They won't push out now . . . AH got it! 8) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374867#374867 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:38:40 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Formation Flying From: "j_dunavin" that is way awesome! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374870#374870 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:32:50 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: passengers From: "bender" my wife and her friend wanted a photo today.. They improve the look of the piet in my opinion.. do not archive. jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374877#374877 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/candjpiet_229.jpg ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:39:25 AM PST US From: "C N Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: t-nuts vs anchor nuts Gene, I also used T-nuts. I had some #4X1/2-inch sheet metal screws on hand so I drilled a small pilot hole beside each t-nut on each side and ran a screw into each so that the heads of the screws overlapped the flange of the T-nut. Those screws prevent the t-nut from coming out when the #10 flat-head screw goes in. Just wonder if I should use Loc-tite on the threads of the flat-head screws. I'm planning to do that -- just looking for confirmation that it's necessary. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene Rambo To: pietenpol-list Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 4:15 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: t-nuts vs anchor nuts Actually, you can safety tee nuts. I epoxied mine in, but at the last minute before covering I cut a bunch of strips of thin plywood say, 1/2" by 1" and drilled a hole in the middle for the screw to protrude through. Then I glued and nailed one across each tee nut. They won't push out now . . . Gene do not archive > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: t-nuts vs anchor nuts > From: j_dunavin@hotmail.com > Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 10:37:23 -0700 > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > I'm not at that point yet, so I couldn't say for for sure how I will do mine, BUT if your technical advisor says to use anchor nuts or nut plates, then I would. There is no way to saftey a tee nut, unless you used lock tight. > These nut plates are all metal and not too expensive: > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/anchornuts4.php > and if you look at this doc: > http://www.coastfab.com/images/pdf/2010/nutplates_ms21059_ms21061.pdf > They self lock due to the fact that the hole is a little out of round. > > If all else fails, this is actual AN hardware, not true value hardware. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374771#374771 > > > > > > <============= > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 11:44:53 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: passengers I love photos of nude women in Pietenpols! Are they coming to Brodhead with you this year? They wouldn't need to pack any clothes. For Heaven's Sake, Do Not Archive Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bender Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 2:32 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: passengers my wife and her friend wanted a photo today.. They improve the look of the piet in my opinion.. do not archive. jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374877#374877 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/candjpiet_229.jpg ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 11:46:10 AM PST US From: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: passengers Looks great Jeff....nothing makes a Piet look better than naked women. Brian SLC-UT -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bender Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 12:32 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: passengers --> my wife and her friend wanted a photo today.. They improve the look of the piet in my opinion.. do not archive. jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374877#374877 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/candjpiet_229.jpg ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 11:50:25 AM PST US From: "C N Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cable guides Hey! This is an experimental airplane. You can build it any way you want. C ----- Original Message ----- From: Ralph To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 10:08 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: cable guides The plans seem to show cable guides just outboard of the pulley going to the stick and another in the area where the strut joins the spar. Are just these two required or have people included more guides along the distance? Ralph in South Dakota ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 12:03:33 PM PST US From: "C N Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: passengers Which is your wife and which is the friend -- some of these young bucks would probably like to know! Do not archive. ----- Original Message ----- From: "bender" Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 2:32 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: passengers > > > my wife and her friend wanted a photo today.. > They improve the look of the piet in my opinion.. > > do not archive. > > jeff > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374877#374877 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/candjpiet_229.jpg > > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 12:21:02 PM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Going off-list for a while Friends and fellow Pietsters: It grieves me to say this but I will be going off-list for a while and will be just getting the digest version while I am recuperating from back surgery. I opted to do this now since I cannot stand to sit in the Piet for more than 10-minutes before my back gives out. I 'spect that might get even worse when the seat is moving - - so - - while I am still young enough to recover I am going in for the big fix. Feel free to use my name in vain or whatever while I am gone but rest assured - - I SHALL RETURN! Tom Stinemetze N328X do not archive ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 12:50:52 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: passengers From: "John Francis" Perhaps a video on how to properly enter and exit a Pietenpol is in order here? Just a thought...and a good one! -------- John Francis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374886#374886 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 02:03:16 PM PST US From: Jim Boyer Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Going off-list for a while Hi Tom, Good luck with the back surgery; just be sure to let it heal before doing anything that might push it too soon. My wife has had 3 back surgerys and pushed too hard; but thankfully now is better. Cheers, Jim B. do not archive ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 02:57:43 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: passengers Man you know you're starting to get slightly over the hill when you say "oh yes, those ladies are very pretty" then go about examining your construction choices and methods Jeff! 'let's see...is that a Model A or B...' 19" wheels or 18"? Well you just combined two of the three male pilot's favorite passions....ladies, airplanes, and food. Mike C. do not archive ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 02:59:50 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing attachment From: Ken Bickers Its beginning to look almost like an airplane. I started the initial mating of the wings to the fuselage last evening. Cheers, Ken ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 04:08:36 PM PST US From: "Greg Cardinal" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: passengers Not a video but a step-by-step procedure is in the archives. Search "How to be a Proper Pietenpol Passenger" Greg Cardinal Minneapolis ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Francis" Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 2:48 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: passengers > > Perhaps a video on how to properly enter and exit a Pietenpol is in order > here? Just a thought...and a good one! > > -------- > John Francis > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374886#374886 > > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 04:12:26 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing attachment Looks just great Ken! Looks like a Corvair motor mount. Bet that was exciting to see all those big parts together! Way to go. Mike C. do not archive ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 04:47:44 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: passengers From: "bender" Ididn't realize the looked naked but now that I look again....well I....uh see that. ..both in sun dresses ..wife in the back.. do not archive Jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374902#374902 ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 05:02:27 PM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing attachment Looks a lot like an airplane. Nice work area too! Michael Perez Pietenpol HINT Videos Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 05:05:27 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Going off-list for a while From: "Jerry Dotson" Tom I sure hate you need surgery. I had surgery in 1990. My doctor had me to walk. When I say wall I mean every day starting a week after surgery. I started out walking 100 feet then retreating to the house. After 6 months I was up to 3 miles. I still walk every day. That is my $0.02 Good luck do not archive -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 thru covering and painting, now in final assembly 21" wheels Lycoming O-235 C2C Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374906#374906 ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 06:10:13 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: passengers Oh sure - and you expect us to believe that? I still want to know if they'll be at Brodhead. That may determine whether I make the trip this year or not. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bender Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 7:31 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: passengers Ididn't realize the looked naked but now that I look again....well I....uh see that. ..both in sun dresses ..wife in the back.. do not archive Jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374902#374902 ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 06:33:03 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: t-nuts vs anchor nuts From: "nightmare" whats a good source for the t nuts. paul Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374908#374908 ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 06:51:25 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Going off-list for a while From: gboothe5@comcast.net Tom, Best wishes! Get back (pun intended)to us as soon as possible. In your honor, I promise to use your name in vain, as often as possible... Gary from Cool Do not archive ------Original Message------ From: TOM STINEMETZE Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com ReplyTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Going off-list for a while Sent: Jun 6, 2012 12:20 PM Friends and fellow Pietsters: It grieves me to say this but I will be going off-list for a while and will be just getting the digest version while I am recuperating from back surgery. I opted to do this now since I cannot stand to sit in the Piet for more than 10-minutes before my back gives out. I 'spect that might get even worse when the seat is moving - - so - - while I am still young enough to recover I am going in for the big fix. Feel free to use my name in vain or whatever while I am gone but rest assured - - I SHALL RETURN! Tom Stinemetze N328X do not archive Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 07:53:23 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: passengers From: Ryan Mueller Greg, In this case, there is NOTHING wrong with an additional guide....do you understand? Nothing.... ;-) Ryan do not archive On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 5:48 PM, Greg Cardinal wrote: > gcardinal@comcast.net> > > Not a video but a step-by-step procedure is in the archives. Search "How > to be a Proper Pietenpol Passenger" > > Greg Cardinal > Minneapolis > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Francis" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 2:48 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: passengers > > >> >> Perhaps a video on how to properly enter and exit a Pietenpol is in order >> here? Just a thought...and a good one! >> >> -------- >> John Francis >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/**viewtopic.php?p=374886#374886 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 08:05:17 PM PST US From: John Hofmann Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: passengers Make sure there is a towel on the seat.... do not archive John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2424 American Lane Madison, WI 53704 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com On Jun 6, 2012, at 7:51 PM, Jack Phillips wrote: > > Oh sure - and you expect us to believe that? I still want to know if > they'll be at Brodhead. That may determine whether I make the trip this > year or not. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bender > Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 7:31 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: passengers > > > Ididn't realize the looked naked but now that I look again....well I....uh > see that. > ..both in sun dresses ..wife in the back.. > > do not archive > > Jeff > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374902#374902 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 09:07:32 PM PST US From: "Ray Krause" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: t-nuts vs anchor nuts Thanks to Chris and all the others who responded to my question. It is hard to remember that the Sky Scout will not be the same as the Waiex in speed and performance! My spacing measures about 3 inches, so I should be OK. I have epoxied in the anchor nuts and will go back and maybe apply the plywood covers to be sure. Sure don't want the nuts to come loose in there! I agree, it will be easy to check before each flight to see if the ailerons are still attached well. Thanks again for the speedy response. Sure missed you at Fraiser Lake, Chris. Ray Krause ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 2:04 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: t-nuts vs anchor nuts Ray Mine are on 7 to 8 inch centers. Not flight tested but I have tugged on the aileron and have not noticed any problem. I was more worried about making a weak spot along the aileron spar if I put them closer. If you look at mike Cuy's aileron hinges his are spread apart too. Remember the flight speed between the aluminum plane and the Pietenpol is way different. On a faster plane I would want them closer. Chris Sacramento, Ca Westcoastpiet.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Krause Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 8:03 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: t-nuts vs anchor nuts What spacing did you use with the T nuts/screws on the ailerons? When using the piano MS--- type hinges on an aluminum plane, we put one rivet at each hinge extension (the attach point). I am using the 1" wide MS --- aluminum piano hinges and have installed 8-24 screws and the self locking nut plates at every 3rd hinge extension. This does not seem as good as, or as stable, as having an anchor at each hinge extension. Placing the nut plate/screws any closer together may create a "fault line", or weak point, along the aileron beams (spars). Also, the self locking (slightly ovaled) nut plates work very well with bolts with hex heads. But TOO well with Phillip head screws. The nut plates are so tight they cause the heads to strip out before the screw can be secured. I have opened the nut plates with an 8-24 tap before installation so the oval is not so severe. I will use loctite when I make the final installation. Suggestions would help. Thanks in advance..... Ray Krause Building the Sky Scout. ----- Original Message ----- From: shad bell To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 6:00 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: t-nuts vs anchor nuts You could try crimping the T nut a little bit, to a slight oval shape to make it more like a lock-nut. I have never tried it (just popped in my head after replacing a couple nutplates at work today) but it might be worth experimenting. Otherwise just use some good locktight. We have 304+hrs with T-nuts on the aileron hinges and no problems. Shad --- On Tue, 6/5/12, John Francis wrote: From: John Francis Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: t-nuts vs anchor nuts To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Date: Tuesday, June 5, 2012, 12:29 PM Yes, to mount the piano hinge. Thanks. -------- John Francis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374762#374762 http://forums.matronbsp; - List Contribution Web Site - href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 09:18:06 PM PST US From: Gene Rambo Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: t-nuts vs anchor nuts You know=2C even without any provisions to prevent loosening=2C the aileron hinges have a screw every say 6"=2C so there are something like ten in eac h aileron. The screws are about an inch and a quarter=2C or half. How in the world could enough of the ten back out far enough to do any harm at all without you noticing it? Carry a screwdriver=2C put a drop of glue of som e kind=2C or even locktite on the screws=2C and don't worry about it. 8) From: cncampbell@windstream.net Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: t-nuts vs anchor nuts Gene=2C I also used T-nuts. I had some #4X1/2-inch sheet metal screws on hand so I drilled a small pilot hole beside each t-nu t on each side and ran a screw into each so that the heads of the screws overlap ped the flange of the T-nut. Those screws prevent the t-nut from coming out when the #10 flat-head screw goes in. Just wonder if I should use Loc-tite on the threads of the flat-head screws. I'm planning to do that -- just looking for confirmation that it's necessary. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene Rambo To: pietenpol-list Sent: Tuesday=2C June 05=2C 2012 4:15 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: t-nuts vs anchor nuts Actually=2C you can safety tee nuts. I epoxied mine in=2C but at the last minute before covering I cut a bunch of strips of thin plywood say=2C 1/2" by 1" and drilled a hole in the middle for the screw to protrude through. Then I glued and nailed one across each tee nut. They won't push out now . . . Gene do not archive > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: t-nuts vs anchor nuts > From: j_dunavin@hotmail.com > Date: Tue=2C 5 Jun 2012 10:37:23 -0700 > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > > I'm not at that point yet=2C so I couldn't say for for sure how I will do mine=2C BUT if your technical adv isor says to use anchor nuts or nut plates=2C then I would. There is no way to saftey a tee nut=2C unless you used lock tight. > These nut plates are all metal and not too expensive: > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/anchornuts4.php > and if you look at this doc: > http://www.coastfab.com/images/pdf/2010/nutplates_ms21059_ms21061.pdf > They self lock due to the fact that the hole is a little out of round. > > If all else fails=2C this is actual AN hardware=2C not true value hardware. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374771#374771 > > > > > > <============= > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 09:42:11 PM PST US From: Gene Rambo Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: passengers What Piet?? Genedo not archive > Subject: Pietenpol-List: passengers > From: jfaith@solairusaviation.com > Date: Wed=2C 6 Jun 2012 11:32:01 -0700 > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > om> > > my wife and her friend wanted a photo today.. > They improve the look of the piet in my opinion.. > > do not archive. > > jeff > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374877#374877 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/candjpiet_229.jpg > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 10:10:02 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing attachment From: Ken Bickers Mike C -- good eyes. Yes, I'm planning on the Corvair. The bottom end is at Roy's Garage in Michigan having a 5th bearing installed. Mike P -- thanks. Our hangar makes a nice shop. But usually there is a Piper Pacer living in it, too. For the next couple weeks, it is having a stay-over at a friend's hangar, giving me a chance to start the work on mating the wings on the Pietenpol. Cheers, Ken On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 5:43 PM, Michael Perez wrote: > Looks a lot like an airplane. Nice work area too! > > Michael Perez > Pietenpol HINT Videos > Karetaker Aero > www.karetakeraero.com > > * > > * > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.