Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:41 AM - Re: AN Bolt deciphering - Resource (Ben Charvet)
2. 07:03 AM - Engine Mount Complete-Work Continues (Michael Perez)
3. 07:07 AM - elevator (flipper) trim (Douwe Blumberg)
4. 09:20 AM - Mike P's motor mount completed (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC])
5. 09:46 AM - Re: AN Bolt deciphering - Resource (C N Campbell)
6. 11:06 AM - Re: elevator (flipper) trim (Mark Roberts)
7. 12:12 PM - Re: AN Bolt deciphering - Resource (Mark Roberts)
8. 12:26 PM - Re: AN Bolt deciphering - Resource (Gary Boothe)
9. 06:03 PM - NX53WE specs (Bob edson)
10. 06:38 PM - Re: Engine Mount Complete-Work Continues (Jack Phillips)
11. 09:01 PM - Brodhead (gboothe5@comcast.net)
12. 10:25 PM - Re: NX53WE specs (Mark Roberts)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: AN Bolt deciphering - Resource |
You need a lot of bolts, and the ones with the holes are more expensive,
so I only used the drilled bolts where I needed them. I started out
just ordering the bolts I thought I needed, but eventually ended up
buying 10 of a variety of lengths of AN-3 and AN-4bolts, because when
you go to doing assembly you sometimes need to move up or down a size to
get the proper number of threads. I just bought 100 of the self-locking
nuts in AN-3, and the same for both sizes of washers. Costs very little
in the whole scheme of things, and you avoid getting stumped because you
are 1 bolt short (or long:-) ). I don't remember the part number of the
pulleys, but there is a pulley in the ACS catalog with a ball-bearing
hub that takes a 1/4 inch bolt and takes 1/8 inch cable. They cost
around $10 each, and you need a bunch of them. Someone will chime in
with the part number I'm sure
Ben Charvet
NX866BC 130 hrs so far
OK to archive?
Ben
On 6/14/2012 1:46 AM, Mark Roberts wrote:
> The hardest part of this build (OK, for me perhaps who is so ADD that
> I am still trying to remember where my meds are located...) is the
> stinkin' hardware. I have compiled a list of metal, and am now
> "bolting"...
>
> I am assuming that most of the bolts I get could have a hole in the
> shaft to use if necessary. Is there any potential down side to this
> idea of ordering all the bolts with holes in the threaded end. I can
> bet there would be a problem if I needed the hole and didn't have it...
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Here's a link to what I thought was a helpful chart. I hope it might
> help others with my same affliction (Harumph!)
>
> http://www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com/images/pdf/an3_thru_an20.pdf
>
> Mark
> *
>
>
> *
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
Message 2
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| Subject: | Engine Mount Complete-Work Continues |
Crew, I finished my A-65 mount Tuesday. I believe I am finished with all the required
welding on the plane now. Building the jig and fabricating the mount was
reminiscent of building the straight axle landing gear.
Engine work will now continue. I have a Fresno Airparts order on it's way and I
hope to start engine assembly as soon as the parts arrive. I also have my fire
wall finished as of last night. It is 1/8" plywood, 1/16" Fiberfrax and .030"
aluminum.
I need to figure out if/how I can store my wings at home once they are covered.
Once I do that, I may buy more fabric and start on them prior to winter.
Michael Perez
Pietenpol HINT Videos
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
Message 3
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| Subject: | elevator (flipper) trim |
I lifted this idea from Rick Holland, and have mentioned it before, but
since you ask.
If you have a battery, or even if you don't, you can use a small
rechargeable.
I purchased a Ray Allen trim servo which weighs a few ounces and mounts in
the elevator to actuate a tab. Two tiny wires run up to a rocker switch and
"Bob's your Uncle!!" you're done!! Light, nothing seen cluttering the
cockpit and. Easey Peasey, Lemon Squeezey.
Very un-original, BUT so is anything else, but it's much easier to hide than
any other system other than a ground adjustable (bend) tab.
Available through ACS and many others.
Douwe
Message 4
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| Subject: | Mike P's motor mount completed |
Congratulations Mike! The engine mount is a big deal to accomplish fabri
cating and seeing it first hand brought back lots
of memories and reminded me of the satisfaction of a difficult job accompli
shed.
Mike's motor mount looked even better after a nice coat of
dark green zinc chromate primer!
Mike C.
do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: AN Bolt deciphering - Resource |
Mark, the main difference is price. In the ACS listing an AN3-7A
(undrilled) is $0.12 -- an AN3-7 (drilled) is $0.52. That 40-cent
difference would build up when you start ordering your hardware. Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Roberts
To: pietenpol-list
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 1:46 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: AN Bolt deciphering - Resource
The hardest part of this build (OK, for me perhaps who is so ADD that
I am still trying to remember where my meds are located...) is the
stinkin' hardware. I have compiled a list of metal, and am now
"bolting"...
I am assuming that most of the bolts I get could have a hole in the
shaft to use if necessary. Is there any potential down side to this idea
of ordering all the bolts with holes in the threaded end. I can bet
there would be a problem if I needed the hole and didn't have it...
Thoughts?
Here's a link to what I thought was a helpful chart. I hope it might
help others with my same affliction (Harumph!)
http://www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com/images/pdf/an3_thru_an20.pdf
Mark
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: elevator (flipper) trim |
Thanks for that Douwe! That might be a better option for me as I am not wild about
running the added cable and such for the mechanical system, and I think this
might be easier for me.
Mark
--------
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=375662#375662
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: AN Bolt deciphering - Resource |
Thanks guys!
The pulley thing has me stumped, although the bolt selector I found on ACS
after I posted was helpful.
I looked at the pulley list and found nothing fitting the 1/8" cable in the
range for cost I expected. If anyone remembers the PN for the pulleys you
bought from ACS, I for one would be interested (never been much of a
trailblazer myself!)
Best,
Mark
DO NOT ARCHIVE
On Thursday, June 14, 2012, C N Campbell wrote:
> **
> Mark, the main difference is price. In the ACS listing an AN3-7A
> (undrilled) is $0.12 -- an AN3-7 (drilled) is $0.52. That 40-cent
> difference would build up when you start ordering your hardware. Chuck
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Mark Roberts <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'mark.rbrts1@gmail.com');>
> *To:* pietenpol-list <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> 'pietenpol-list@matronics.com');>
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 14, 2012 1:46 AM
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: AN Bolt deciphering - Resource
>
> The hardest part of this build (OK, for me perhaps who is so ADD that I am
> still trying to remember where my meds are located...) is the stinkin'
> hardware. I have compiled a list of metal, and am now "bolting"...
>
> I am assuming that most of the bolts I get could have a hole in the shaft
> to use if necessary. Is there any potential down side to this idea of
> ordering all the bolts with holes in the threaded end. I can bet there
> would be a problem if I needed the hole and didn't have it...
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Here's a link to what I thought was a helpful chart. I hope it might help
> others with my same affliction (Harumph!)
>
> http://www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com/images/pdf/an3_thru_an20.pdf
>
> Mark
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | AN Bolt deciphering - Resource |
Mark,
Aside from the cost difference, my earlier version of AC43.13 states,
".Bolts 5/16" diameter and over with cotter pinholes may be used with
self-locking nuts." Inference from that, along with my recollection from A&P
school, is that smaller bolts with cotter pinholes would not be used with
fiber locknuts.
Gary from Cool
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of C N Campbell
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: AN Bolt deciphering - Resource
Mark, the main difference is price. In the ACS listing an AN3-7A
(undrilled) is $0.12 -- an AN3-7 (drilled) is $0.52. That 40-cent
difference would build up when you start ordering your hardware. Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Roberts <mailto:mark.rbrts1@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 1:46 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: AN Bolt deciphering - Resource
The hardest part of this build (OK, for me perhaps who is so ADD that I am
still trying to remember where my meds are located...) is the stinkin'
hardware. I have compiled a list of metal, and am now "bolting"...
I am assuming that most of the bolts I get could have a hole in the shaft to
use if necessary. Is there any potential down side to this idea of ordering
all the bolts with holes in the threaded end. I can bet there would be a
problem if I needed the hole and didn't have it...
Thoughts?
Here's a link to what I thought was a helpful chart. I hope it might help
others with my same affliction (Harumph!)
http://www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com/images/pdf/an3_thru_an20.pdf
Mark
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 9
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We built the long fuselage and made it 2 inches wider and the pilot
cockpit 2 inches longer. For the wheels we used 21 inch rims and made 6
inch hubs. My son did all the metal work. It has disc brakes with gocart
cylinders. Tha wings are Riblett 612 airfoil and the cabanes are the
same length.The stall is at 27 and is not a sharp break but a kind of a
mush. It slow flies at 30 and he had it up to 103. It weighed in at 805
empty and is very stable. We are pleased with this airfoil and the
overall preformance.23 hours yet to go. Bob
Message 10
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| Subject: | Engine Mount Complete-Work Continues |
Michael, I'm a little surprised at your choice for the firewall metal. I've
never known of an airplane with an aluminum firewall. All I've ever seen
were steel. Aluminum melts at about 1100 degrees F, and a gasoline fed fire
will easily melt it. I don't think it would offer much protection, even
with a fiberfrax backing. I though you loved stainless steel?
Anyway, you might want to rethink aluminum for a firewall. I assume you've
been reading your Bingelis books, but if not, here is what Mike Cuy's Uncle
Tony has to say about firewall materials:
Acceptable Firewall Materials
The following materials may be used in firewalls WITHOUT BEING TESTED;
. Stainless steel sheet - .015 inch thick (.284 lb./cu. in.)
. Mild steel sheet (coated with aluminum or otherwise corrosion
protected) - .018 inch thick
. Terne plate - .018 inch thick
. Steel or copper base alloy fittings
. Other materials may be used if they can pass the fireproof test.
The Fireproof Test
If you want to use some other material for your firewall, you may have to
prove its ability to meet certain criteria for compliance as a fireproof
material. Simply stated, the material must be given a flame test, in which a
piece of it, approximately 10 inches in diameter, is subjected to a
five-inch diameter flame. Firewall materials and fittings must resist flame
penetration for at least 15 minutes.
That's all there is to that. Compliance is relatively easy and no
homebuilder wanting to try a new firewall treatment should slight the
requirement.
Choosing Your Firewall Material
Galvanized sheet is the most common, most economical of the acceptable
materials used in small general aviation aircraft. It gets its corrosion
resistance from a zinc or hot-dip galvanizing coating obtained by immersing
the sheet steel in a mixture of molten zinc at a temperature of
approximately 865 degrees F. until the base metal temperature of the
immersed steel sheet reaches that of the hot-dip bath.
Local sources for galvanized sheet include metal shops and air conditioning
duct fabricators.
Don't be surprised if the folks operating these metal shops refer to the
thickness of their galvanized sheets in term of gauges rather than inch
sizes such as .018 inch or .015 inch. If that be the case, 26 gauge is
pretty close to what you want (about .018 inch thick). You could assure
yourself that you are obtaining the correct thickness if you bring your own
micrometer to check the various sheets. There are a number of so-called
"standard gauges" and some variations in the actual thickness for the same
gauge number may crop up.
No useful purpose would be served by using a heavier firewall sheet than
that required to meet acceptable minimums. Never lose sight of the fact that
the addition of unnecessary weight, no matter how slight, degrades the
aircraft's performance. The firewall metal for a two-seat aircraft will
probably weigh as much as 4-1/2 pounds anyway, so why make it seven?
In order of preference for firewall material, stainless steel gets top
billing in both quality and appearance. It also costs two to four times more
than galvanized sheet. However, as the "cadillac" of firewall materials, it
is the first choice among builders who want a "show airplane." Builders with
economy in mind will ordinarily use galvanized sheet for their firewall and
may console themselves by claiming that galvanized sheet is lighter than
stainless. I doubt that the weight difference could be measured on the crude
scales most of us have around our shops, but there is that difference.
Another fireproof material, often used in the past and sometimes still found
on older aircraft, is terne plate. It is not used much today because it
isn't as commonly available as galvanized.
Monel and Inconel, although acceptable as firewall materials, are difficult
to obtain. As far as homebuilders are concerned, these may be regarded as
rare materials.
Concern over weight leads some builders to consider the use of aluminum.
However, using aluminum sheet by itself for firewall material is not
acceptable to most FAA inspectors. The official reason is, aluminum will not
pass the flame test because its melting point is just slightly above 1,200
degrees F. In some applications . . . for very slow, light aircraft
(ultralights) with small engines, it might be considered sufficient.
However, before you decide to use it in your own aircraft, check it out with
your local FAA inspector. Although the standards established by regulation
for production-line aircraft do not necessarily apply to experimental
aircraft, deviation from accepted practices may result in your having to get
into a proof testing demonstration. Is it worth the trouble?
So, before going much further, I would strongly urge you to consider
glavanized iron or stainless steel.
Best of luck,
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Perez
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 10:01 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Engine Mount Complete-Work Continues
Crew, I finished my A-65 mount Tuesday. I believe I am finished with all the
required welding on the plane now. Building the jig and fabricating the
mount was reminiscent of building the straight axle landing gear.
Engine work will now continue. I have a Fresno Airparts order on it's way
and I hope to start engine assembly as soon as the parts arrive. I also have
my fire wall finished as of last night. It is 1/8" plywood, 1/16" Fiberfrax
and .030" aluminum.
I need to figure out if/how I can store my wings at home once they are
covered. Once I do that, I may buy more fabric and start on them prior to
winter.
Michael Perez
Pietenpol HINT Videos
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
Message 11
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By a fortunate turn of events, I find myself with transportation to Brodhead on
Thursday, but in need of a ride to Chicago/Midway on Sunday. Anyone got room
for a tag-along?
Gary from Cool
Do not archive
Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: NX53WE specs |
This is such an interesting post! When I read the modifications you made to your
Piet, it was if you were reading my build notes. I sure would like to chat off
line at your convenience to pick your mind and share a bit off line. If that
is OK with you, my email address is mark.rbrts1 at gmail.com. Email me your
phone number and best time to call and we can compare notes.
I am finishing up the turtle deck now. My build is 2 inches deeper at the pilot
seat (I'm 6'4" tall), 2 inches wider overall, 2 inches longer in the nose (plan
to use a Corvair), and I am using the Riblett GA-30-613.5 (as I was instructed
by Harry Riblett to properly call it when I spoke to him about which one to
use of the 2 he recommended.., due to my size, weight, and density altitude
in the summers here).
Congratulations! What an exciting time for you! I hope we can chat off line sometime
about your Piet!
Mark Roberts
Fresno, CA
--------
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=375708#375708
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