---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 06/20/12: 23 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:04 AM - Re: Hey! Pulley my finger! A pulley question... (George Abernathy) 2. 04:04 AM - shackles (Douwe Blumberg) 3. 05:37 AM - Turnbuckles for sale (899PM) 4. 06:13 AM - Re: What welding rod did you use for 4130? (scudrun) 5. 06:30 AM - Re: Re: What welding rod did you use for 4130? (Michael Perez) 6. 06:40 AM - Re: Re: String Theory (Crankcase) (Michael Perez) 7. 06:44 AM - Re: Re: What welding rod did you use for 4130? (Michael Perez) 8. 07:20 AM - Re: Heel Brake Question (nightmare) 9. 07:38 AM - Re: Re: Heel Brake Question (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB) 10. 07:58 AM - Re: Re: What welding rod did you use for 4130? (Jack@textors.com) 11. 08:01 AM - Re: Re: Heel Brake Question (gboothe5@comcast.net) 12. 08:46 AM - Re: Re: Heel Brake Question (Michael Perez) 13. 10:38 AM - Re: Heel Brake Question (dgaldrich) 14. 02:33 PM - Re: Hey! Pulley my finger! A pulley question... (Mark Roberts) 15. 02:47 PM - Re: Re: A pulley question... (brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com) 16. 05:18 PM - Re: Re: Heel Brake Question (C N Campbell) 17. 05:22 PM - Re: Hey! Pulley my finger! A pulley question... (Bill Church) 18. 06:50 PM - Horn mistake.... (giacummo) 19. 07:21 PM - Re: Hey! Pulley my finger! A pulley question... (Mark Roberts) 20. 07:29 PM - Re: A pulley question... (Mark Roberts) 21. 08:31 PM - Re: Turnbuckles for sale (Ray Krause) 22. 09:24 PM - Re: What welding rod did you use for 4130? (scudrun) 23. 09:35 PM - Re: Horn mistake.... (Greg Cardinal) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:04:38 AM PST US From: George Abernathy Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hey! Pulley my finger! A pulley question... Hi Mark,=0A=0AI did some research on the pulley issue. Mcfarlane makes a pu lley called an MCS 378-3 that will accept 1/8 cable. =0A=0A=0ASome of the p ulleys are only rated for 15 degrees of bend in the cable. This one is good for the pietenpol. It has a 600 lb load limit. =0A=0A=0AMemory sludge serv es up that the bends required for a piet are acceptable. =0A=0A=0AHere is a link=0A=0Ahttp://www.mcfarlane-aviation.com/Products/?ID=79258855&PartNu mber=MCS378-3&=0A=0AClick on the supersedure chart on the bottom of the p age to compare the various types. =0A=0A=0A=0A_____________________________ ___=0A From: Mark Roberts =0ATo: pietenpol-list@matr onics.com =0ASent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 1:22 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-Lis t: Hey! Pulley my finger! A pulley question...=0A =0A--> Pietenpol-List mes sage posted by: "Mark Roberts" =0A=0AOK, I know the plans were drawn in the 30's and things change.=0A=0ABut since we are still building these things into this century, what are you all using for a 2" p ulley on the control stick assembly?=0A=0AI have put an order list together from ACS and have almost everything 'cept the pulleys and the nuts and bol ts identified for the order, and I can't find the phenolic pulleys that are 2" diameter for a 1/8" cable. the closest I found was A-123, a 2" OD with a 1.5" ID, but only accepts up to a 3/32" cable, not 1/8".=0A=0ASuggestions ? I might be too picky here, but some stuff I am just plain ignorant about and this is one of them.=0A=0A(And I am not taking suggestions regarding th e other things I might be ignorant about from any other west coast pieters. ..)=0A=0AThanks guys! Hope to be ordering very soon. I am ready for some st eel!=0A=0AMark=0A=0A--------=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=375624#375 = ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:04:02 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: shackles For those of you who want to use shackles, I picked up a bunch from B&B for a good price last time I bought some turnbuckles. Douwe ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:37:37 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckles for sale From: "899PM" I have over (100) AN140-16S turnbuckles for sale. They are used and have (2) cable eyes. I used motorcycle chain sideplates/links to create a "fork" and used these throughout my Air Camper. $8ea plus $5 shipping via USPS Priority small flat rate box. Please PM me with orders. Check, MO or PayPal all work fine. Thanx.......Mike -------- PAPA MIKE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376124#376124 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_4302_811.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_4299_207.jpg ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:13:10 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: What welding rod did you use for 4130? From: "scudrun" I bought this TIG welder on E-Bay and it does everything as advertized and I think is a very good deal. http://www.ebay.ca/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250810415089&ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:CA:1123#ht_7441wt_952 It was delivered in 3 days, and worked like a charm out of the box. I have done mostly stainless welding with it but did some aluminum for testing and it worked great with blunt zirconiated electrodes in AC pulsed mode. Nice cleaning action. One other quick note which will be valuable for those welding thin materials. I learned to chemically sharpen my tungsten using sodium nitrite which is an inexpensive chemical salt available from chemical supplies (or you could buy a product called chemsharp which is the same thing sold in expensive jars!) For thin metals in DC mode you can't beat the fine tip you get with this method and no arc wandering! Joe tools wrote: > I'll second what Dan says about TIG. Also WAY easier for really thin metals, like a lot of the fittings on the Piet. > > Rigbt now, it seems there's lots of TIG welders being sold via ebay, craigslist, etc, for a really good deal. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376126#376126 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:30:05 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: What welding rod did you use for 4130? "I'm finally firmly in the camp (mostly after having seen it in person a =0Alot) that TIG is fine, easier for me, no normalizing is required." I agree.- Michael Perez =0APietenpol HINT Videos =0AKaretaker Aero =0Awww.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:40:04 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: String Theory (Crankcase) Thanks Jerry. Michael Perez Pietenpol HINT Videos Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:44:30 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: What welding rod did you use for 4130? Mark, I have no real experience with oxy. welding, however, I have done my fair share of tig...most of it on my plane. I did do some years ago as well .- If you go the tig route, I believe you will find that you will come up to speed very fast and be quite confident. I shied away from welding at fi rst too, on my plane. It had been so long since I welded, I felt like I wou ld be starting all over.- Turns out, the welding was one of the most fun aspects of my build. Michael Perez =0APietenpol HINT Videos =0AKaretaker Aero =0Awww.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:20:24 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Heel Brake Question From: "nightmare" great design Gary. i may be copying it myself. how good do the band brakes work? and whats a good supplier for them?Paul Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376137#376137 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:00 AM PST US From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Heel Brake Question Regarding Heel brakes. I am a convert as far as using them on taildraggers. I have spent a lot of time in my buddies Aeronca Champ the last few months. At first I found the heel brakes to be almost counter intuitive. It felt strange to push with my heel and flex my toes up in order to stop. (Remember I was raised in a Cessna 150 with the training wheel up front and toe brakes.) However, I have become a fan of them on this taildragger. If they were as easy to get to as toe brakes I would probably have ground looped the plane by now. If I had not locked the brakes and put the plane on it's nose. In the Champ, my feet don't rest on the heel brakes. So heel brakes require just enough more effort that I have to reach for them and I am too busy keeping the plane straight to do that without real thought. It keeps me out of trouble. Blue Skies, Steve D ----- Original Message ----- From: nightmare Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Heel Brake Question > > great design Gary. i may be copying it myself. how good do the band brakes work? and whats a good supplier for them?Paul > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376137#376137 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:58:03 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: What welding rod did you use for 4130? From: "Jack@textors.com" Joe could you further explain chemical sharpening? Thanks Do not archive Jack Textor Sent from my iPad On Jun 20, 2012, at 8:12 AM, "scudrun" wrote: > > I bought this TIG welder on E-Bay and it does everything as advertized and I think is a very good deal. > > http://www.ebay.ca/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250810415089&ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:CA:1123#ht_7441wt_952 > > It was delivered in 3 days, and worked like a charm out of the box. I have done mostly stainless welding with it but did some aluminum for testing and it worked great with blunt zirconiated electrodes in AC pulsed mode. Nice cleaning action. > > One other quick note which will be valuable for those welding thin materials. I learned to chemically sharpen my tungsten using sodium nitrite which is an inexpensive chemical salt available from chemical supplies (or you could buy a product called chemsharp which is the same thing sold in expensive jars!) For thin metals in DC mode you can't beat the fine tip you get with this method and no arc wandering! > > Joe > > > > > > tools wrote: >> I'll second what Dan says about TIG. Also WAY easier for really thin metals, like a lot of the fittings on the Piet. >> >> Rigbt now, it seems there's lots of TIG welders being sold via ebay, craigslist, etc, for a really good deal. > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376126#376126 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:01:28 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Heel Brake Question From: gboothe5@comcast.net Thanks, Paul. Taxi tests will start in about a month. I'm not expecting much! ------Original Message------ From: nightmare Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com ReplyTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Heel Brake Question Sent: Jun 20, 2012 7:20 AM great design Gary. i may be copying it myself. how good do the band brakes work? and whats a good supplier for them?Paul Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376137#376137 Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:46:54 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Heel Brake Question Her is where I bought mine: http://www.gokartgalaxy.com/4_band_brakes_and_components.htm Michael Perez Pietenpol HINT Videos Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:38:45 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Heel Brake Question From: "dgaldrich" With regard to brakes of any kind, make SURE they don't interfere with the rudder bar. A friend of mine who shall remain nameless added brakes to his Piet and discovered (too late) an interference problem that kept him from getting full throw on the rudder just when he needed it to keep a ground loop under control. Dave Aldrich do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376153#376153 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:33:05 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hey! Pulley my finger! A pulley question... From: "Mark Roberts" Thank you! I didn't realize how pricey hose pulleys would be! Thanks for the reference. Looks like I'll be saving up for them.... Mark -------- do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376164#376164 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:47:37 PM PST US From: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: A pulley question... Mark, These pulley's are what I have used on my Taylorcraft. They have the ball-bearing centers and are for the 1/8" cable, and the ad is posted under Taylorcraft in Barnstormers. Brian SLC-UT $26 * AVAILABLE * FAA-PMA pulleys, for 1/8"cables, 3/16" bearing hole, Ball Bearing style replacement pulley fits Taylorcraft aircraft replacing A-228 3.0" and A-229 1.75" Commercial bushing pulleys. Reduces control system drag, makes the airplane easer to fly and lightens control forces making the airplane a delight to fly. * Contact Donna Losey & Doug Combs - CLASSIC AERO located Gilbert, AZ USA * Telephone: 480-917-0969 . 480-650-0883 * Fax: 484-762-6711 * Posted June 3, 2012 * Show all Ads posted by this Advertiser -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 3:33 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hey! Pulley my finger! A pulley question... --> Thank you! I didn't realize how pricey hose pulleys would be! Thanks for the reference. Looks like I'll be saving up for them.... Mark -------- do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376164#376164 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:18:13 PM PST US From: "C N Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Heel Brake Question As far as I'm concerned, rudder pedals with toe-operated brakes is the ONLY way to go. C Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "dgaldrich" Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 1:38 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Heel Brake Question > > > With regard to brakes of any kind, make SURE they don't interfere with the > rudder bar. A friend of mine who shall remain nameless added brakes to > his Piet and discovered (too late) an interference problem that kept him > from getting full throw on the rudder just when he needed it to keep a > ground loop under control. > > Dave Aldrich > > do not archive > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376153#376153 > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:22:41 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hey! Pulley my finger! A pulley question... From: "Bill Church" How about MS24566-3B, available from Aircraft Spruce, for $17.50 a piece? Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376173#376173 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:50:52 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Horn mistake.... From: "giacummo" Hello, I did a mistake and I have two choices to correct it. I am covering the rudder and stabilizer of the piet to practice with the process and .. finish some parts. When I cover the rudder, I put the elevator horn in place of the rudder horn... two or three months ago, and I just discover the error ( I dcide to cover the stabilizer now and when I was searchin for the horns I saw I have two of different size!!). The solution of course is replace the horn .. of course, but for that I have to cut the cover (it is painted now) and recover this place.. The other option is make an other horn, and keep the rudder horn smaller than the one designed for the Piet. My question is.. is there any trouble in keeping the small horn in the rudder or I have to change it?.. Lots of you have flown the Piet..may be you can guide me about this little problem. Thank you and regards Mario -------- Mario Giacummo http://vgmk1.blogspot.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376178#376178 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:21:38 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hey! Pulley my finger! A pulley question... From: "Mark Roberts" I hope I am not beating a topic to death.... But I am trying to understand this issue a bit more so I don't make a mistake. Here is the statement on the pulley's on ACS website: N210A & AN210B (MS24566) Anti-Friction Bearing Control Pulley with phenolic body and ball bearing with seal. The AN210A pulleys are dimensionally the same as the B pulleys but have metal-shielded bearings rather than removable composition-seal type bearings. The low allowable design load of the -3A and -3B pulleys-is based on cable fatigue. AN210-1A, AN210-3A, AN210-1B and AN210-3B shall not be installed on frequently used aircraft controls to bend the cable more than 15 degrees from a straight line. The part in bold is what has been throwing me. The front pulley bends the cable much more than 15 degrees so what do you use? This part I would have thought would be pretty standard as all of us use it, so I think I must be over thinking it... Thanks for "bearing" with me on this one... At even $17.50 per pulley, I don't want to buy stuff I find out later I can't use... Mark -------- do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376183#376183 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:29:55 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: A pulley question... From: "Mark Roberts" Thank you Brian. I'll look into them. Mark -------- do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376184#376184 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:31:39 PM PST US From: "Ray Krause" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckles for sale Papa Mike, I will take 20 of them, if they are still available. If OK with you, I will send a check whenever you say to do so. Thanks a Million for the offer! Ray Krause 843 Jay Street Colusa, Ca 95932 530-458-7097 (home) 530-736-2627 (cell) Building Sky Scout ----- Original Message ----- From: "899PM" Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 5:36 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckles for sale > > I have over (100) AN140-16S turnbuckles for sale. They are used and have > (2) cable eyes. I used motorcycle chain sideplates/links to create a > "fork" and used these throughout my Air Camper. $8ea plus $5 shipping > via USPS Priority small flat rate box. Please PM me with orders. Check, MO > or PayPal all work fine. > > Thanx.......Mike > > -------- > PAPA MIKE > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376124#376124 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_4302_811.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_4299_207.jpg > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:24:48 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: What welding rod did you use for 4130? From: "scudrun" Chemical sharpening: You get a jar of sodium nitrite. Hold your electrode in a pair of pliers and fire up a propane torch and just heat the tip of the tungsten until it glows red in the flame. Then quickly before it cools dip it in the sodium nitrite powder, moving it in small circles and up and down a little. A reaction takes place as the oxydizing salt reacts with the hot tungsten and the tungsten is removed forming a beautiful smooth sharp tip. You quickly learn that you can control the angle of the sharpening by how far you dip the tungsten into the pool that forms on the poweder as it melts and reacts. There are no grinding marks on the electrode which is what makes the arc wander and difficult to control on low power thin metal welding where you need fine control. Also grinding releases fine dust which you don't want to breathe especially if you are using thoriated tungsten which contains a few percent radioactive thorium. Here's a photo of a 1/16" lanthanated electrode I chemically sharpened using this technique. Look at the fine tip on it! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376187#376187 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/sharpened_with_sodium_nitrite_191.jpg ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:35:44 PM PST US From: "Greg Cardinal" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Horn mistake.... Mario, Do the right thing. Uncover the rudder enough to remove the incorrectly installed horn. Not only will this be easier than making a new horn but leaving the smaller horn on the rudder will change the geometry of the rudder control. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: "giacummo" Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 8:50 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Horn mistake.... > > > Hello, > > I did a mistake and I have two choices to correct it. I am covering the > rudder and stabilizer of the piet to practice with the process and .. > finish some parts. When I cover the rudder, I put the elevator horn in > place of the rudder horn... two or three months ago, and I just discover > the error ( I dcide to cover the stabilizer now and when I was searchin > for the horns I saw I have two of different size!!). > The solution of course is replace the horn .. of course, but for that I > have to cut the cover (it is painted now) and recover this place.. > The other option is make an other horn, and keep the rudder horn smaller > than the one designed for the Piet. > > My question is.. is there any trouble in keeping the small horn in the > rudder or I have to change it?.. Lots of you have flown the Piet..may be > you can guide me about this little problem. > > Thank you and regards > > Mario > > -------- > Mario Giacummo > http://vgmk1.blogspot.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376178#376178 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.