Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:25 AM - center section cut out (Douwe Blumberg)
2. 07:10 AM - Re: center section cut out (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC])
3. 12:12 PM - Re: gap seals (FandS_Piet)
4. 12:28 PM - Re: gap seals (Jerry Dotson)
5. 12:54 PM - Types of Plywood (namrednos)
6. 01:16 PM - Re: gap seals (namrednos)
7. 02:39 PM - Re: Types of Plywood (tools)
8. 04:32 PM - Wing perimeter tapes (Rick Schreiber)
9. 04:56 PM - Re: Wing perimeter tapes (gboothe5@comcast.net)
10. 05:38 PM - Re: gap seals (Jerry Dotson)
11. 05:40 PM - cabane fitting question (Ken Chambers)
12. 05:58 PM - Re: cabane fitting question (Gary Boothe)
13. 06:01 PM - Re: Wing perimeter tapes (Rick Schreiber)
14. 06:49 PM - Re: Wing perimeter tapes (Gary Boothe)
15. 08:14 PM - Re: Types of Plywood (Jim Boyer)
Message 1
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| Subject: | center section cut out |
Hey chaps (and lasses.)
Just found an interesting article from a 1996 Buckeye Pietenpol Association
Newsletter about a guy (Joe Leonard from Garrettsville, OH) experimenting
with his center section cut-out.
To Paraphrase. He had a cut-out in his center section with a rounded
trailing edge. Somebody at Brodhead suggested the founded edge was causing
turbulent airflow over the tail.
As an experiment, he laminated up some foam shaped it to fill the cutout,
duct taped it in place nad went flying.
He did three landings and take-offs, a few stalls etc and reports "it was
like flying a totally different airplane! Stall speed dropped about 5 m.p.h.
The best climb rate previously occurred at 65 m.p.h, with the cut-out
filled, it dropped to 60 m.p.h." "With the center section closed, it floats
like a cub at 60. The rate of climb has not increased and I'm still not
sure if the cruise speed has increased or not." "I've been telling people
all along the center section is not a factor in creating lift, which is
true, BUT it affects a bunch of other things."
Pretty interesting info to ponder for those eliminating the flop. May
Bernhard new what he was doing??
Douwe
Progress report; had a granite engraving friend cut some stencils from
adhesive backed rubber for my tail numbers and a little tail logo (decided
against anything on the fuselage because with the side pipes it was too
busy) and that worked great. She now has some stuff on the tail. Going to
pinstripe the edges of the letters today.
When I was building my wheels I forgot grease fittings, plus they're covered
so. rather than having to remove the wheels to grease them (no biggie
really) I welded up a little tube with a ninety degree in it and a grease
fitting on one end. This goes inside the axle just behind the wheel
retaining cap and is welded into a little hole in the axle between the
bearings in the wheel. When I shoot grease into it, it comes out inside the
wheel.
Triple checking the engine installation before I install the cowling.
Working on seat cushion designs
Did one coaming then started the other and found out I had underestimated
how many eyelets I needed so that stopped until more are delivered.
The only area I sprayed latex over the old dope, under my center section, is
staying a little tacky. Am hoping it'll dry up eventually.
Starting my tailwheel re-education soon from one of the EAA pilots of the
Ford Tri-motor here in beautiful Fallmouth, KY!!!
Message 2
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| Subject: | center section cut out |
Douwe,
Great find about Joe's experimentations. Joe's plane is/was a heavy 85hp
GN-1 Grega with a very long nose. I flew Joe's airplane with the cutout
(he was gracious enough to allow me to fly his before my plane was finished
) and it was a very nice handling airplane but you could feel how much heav
ier it was than say Frank Pavliga's or mine-still a good plane and glad you
posted about Joe's article.
Here's one thing I know. I have a cutout with a handhold and my plane sta
lls power off at 29 mph. Build it light and it will stall nicely with or
without a cutout. My empty weight is 632 lbs.
So great to hear of your continuing progress on your Pietenpol and that you
'll be getting some good tailwheel instruction in the near future to prepar
e you for the day of celebration!
Mike C.
Message 3
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Has anybody tried using piano hinges for the elevators? My dad and I have kicked
this idea around but are still planning on making the per plans hinges
On a milling machine unless of course the masses think it may be beneficial.
--------
Fred Kim
Pittsburgh, Pa
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=377168#377168
Message 4
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I used piano hinge on all control surfaces. The way I did it it is a ton of extra
work but now I like it. The piano hinge is inserted in a groove cut with a
slitting saw and a router. It is epoxied in and the doubter in me made me put
1/8" pins in for extra security. Would I do it again.........yeah.
do not archive
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
First flight June 16,2012
Started building July, 2009
21" wheels
Lycoming O-235 C2C
Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=377169#377169
Attachments:
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http://forums.matronics.com//files/a67_448.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/a68_192.jpg
Message 5
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| Subject: | Types of Plywood |
For the sides and bottom of a piet what type of plywood would you builders (flyer's)
recommend. I have found local (no shipping cost) 1/4" Okume and 1/8" and
1/4" Meranti Marine plywood. Meranti looks like mahogany and is heavier than
the Okume but at a better price. Both are stamped BS 1088, a British standard
for glue waterproof and boil proof with minimum face ply thickness.
Thanks for your help
Scott in Kentucky
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=377170#377170
Message 6
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With piano hinge all the way across the elevator, did you have enough length of
rap to attach the covering cloth.
--------
Scott
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=377171#377171
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Types of Plywood |
Either one is fine. I personally prefer the meranti or the mahogany over the okume
for the pure strength. The pure strength is a good thing because of how
people get in and out of a piet stepping directly onto a 2 x 2 section of 1/4
ply with their full weight. If you were really anal about helping people in and
out, and being careful yourself, I think the okume would be fine.
>From a "specification" standpoint, either is fine, don't worry about it.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=377176#377176
Message 8
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| Subject: | Wing perimeter tapes |
Yesterday I finished rib stitching one of my wing panels. I think the
outside temp was around 98 with about 80% humidity. I have no idea how
hot it was in the hangar, but I was pretty wiped out by the end. The
wing covering and rib stitching has been fun, except for the heat here
in NW Indiana. I had been starting around 7 am before the heat got too
bad, but yesterday I was on a roll and just wanted to finish up the
stitching. Plus I had a helper which sure makes it go faster.
I getting ready to do the rib tapes and perimeter tapes and I have a
question. I am using the Stewart System and in their instruction video
they say to use a 4 inch perimeter tape on the leading edge. My question
is how has everyone transitioned from the wider leading edge tape to the
narrower 3 inch edge tape on the wing tip bow. If you just taper the 4
inch tape and seam it to the 3 inch tape where did you place the
transition seam so it looks nice. I realize I am just obsessing over
this, but I sure don't want to make a mistake at this stage.
Tomorrow I may go out to the airport and start doing the rib tapes
before sunrise to avoid the heat (except my wife just told me the low
tonight is only going to be 80).
Regards,
Rick Schreiber
Valparaiso IN
NX478RS
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Wing perimeter tapes |
Yes, Rick, you're obsessing!;-) Just taper the 4" and transition juuust around
the corner. You will be amazed at how good it'll look when all doped (and I didn't
even use dope!)
Gary from Cool
------Original Message------
From: Rick Schreiber
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
ReplyTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing perimeter tapes
Sent: Jul 3, 2012 4:31 PM
Yesterday I finished rib stitching one of my wing panels. I think the
outside temp was around 98 with about 80% humidity. I have no idea how
hot it was in the hangar, but I was pretty wiped out by the end. The
wing covering and rib stitching has been fun, except for the heat here
in NW Indiana. I had been starting around 7 am before the heat got too
bad, but yesterday I was on a roll and just wanted to finish up the
stitching. Plus I had a helper which sure makes it go faster.
I getting ready to do the rib tapes and perimeter tapes and I have a
question. I am using the Stewart System and in their instruction video
they say to use a 4 inch perimeter tape on the leading edge. My question
is how has everyone transitioned from the wider leading edge tape to the
narrower 3 inch edge tape on the wing tip bow. If you just taper the 4
inch tape and seam it to the 3 inch tape where did you place the
transition seam so it looks nice. I realize I am just obsessing over
this, but I sure don't want to make a mistake at this stage.
Tomorrow I may go out to the airport and start doing the rib tapes
before sunrise to avoid the heat (except my wife just told me the low
tonight is only going to be 80).
Regards,
Rick Schreiber
Valparaiso IN
NX478RS
Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry
Message 10
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Scott that is a good question and I can't find a picture of what I did but will
try to explain it. At the hinge just glue the fabric down in a nice straight
line right up to the edge of the hinge. Then I cut short pieces of POLY-FIBER
HEAVY INTER-RIB BRACING TAPE and glued them from the top side all the way round
to the bottom side passing through the gaps in the unassembled hinge. It worked
out just perfect, the gap was 1/2" and the tape is too. Then I ran 2" pinked
edge tape over that. Clear as mud?
do not archive
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
First flight June 16,2012
Started building July, 2009
21" wheels
Lycoming O-235 C2C
Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=377188#377188
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/a69_218.jpg
Message 11
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| Subject: | cabane fitting question |
I'm working on the cabane to fuselage fittings. I'd rather not cut through
the fuselage stiffener to make a space for the inside fitting.
Would it be acceptable to move the fitting back an inch to avoid this?
Could glue a piece in beneath the longeron to take the bolt.
Or is there some other way to do this? Searched the archives and didn't
find a good alternative.
Thanks
Ken
Message 12
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| Subject: | cabane fitting question |
Ken,
Do you have Long Fuse plans? In those plans it is noted as a 3" "filler".
Whatever you decide to do, you must ensure that the distance between the
forward and rearward fittings corresponds with the distance between the
struts, thereby preserving a parallelogram with the longerons, cabanes and
center section. That allows you to move the center section back without
changing the angle of incidence.
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Chambers
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 5:40 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: cabane fitting question
I'm working on the cabane to fuselage fittings. I'd rather not cut through
the fuselage stiffener to make a space for the inside fitting.
Would it be acceptable to move the fitting back an inch to avoid this? Could
glue a piece in beneath the longeron to take the bolt.
Or is there some other way to do this? Searched the archives and didn't find
a good alternative.
Thanks
Ken
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Wing perimeter tapes |
On 7/3/2012 6:55 PM, gboothe5@comcast.net wrote:
>
> Yes, Rick, you're obsessing!;-) Just taper the 4" and transition juuust around
the corner. You will be amazed at how good it'll look when all doped (and I
didn't even use dope!)
>
> Gary from Cool
>
Thanks for the response Gary. Just tapering the 4 inch tape into the 3
inch tape on the WT Bow is what I thought.
Have you started priming yet? I probably have a couple of days before I
can start the second wing panel. If the temperature breaks this weekend
I probably start the other wing then.
Rick
Do Not Archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Wing perimeter tapes |
Mostly done, Rick! Project is headed for the airport on Saturday! See you at
Brodhead?
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Schreiber
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 6:01 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing perimeter tapes
--> <lmforge@earthlink.net>
On 7/3/2012 6:55 PM, gboothe5@comcast.net wrote:
>
> Yes, Rick, you're obsessing!;-) Just taper the 4" and transition
> juuust around the corner. You will be amazed at how good it'll look
> when all doped (and I didn't even use dope!)
>
> Gary from Cool
>
Thanks for the response Gary. Just tapering the 4 inch tape into the 3 inch
tape on the WT Bow is what I thought.
Have you started priming yet? I probably have a couple of days before I can
start the second wing panel. If the temperature breaks this weekend I
probably start the other wing then.
Rick
Do Not Archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Types of Plywood |
Scotty I used marine Mahogany plywood for my Piet; 3mm (1/8) and 6mm (1/4). I like
the mahogany look and it was very good quality at much less than aircraft
plywood.
Jim B.
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