Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Thu 07/12/12


Total Messages Posted: 42



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 03:02 AM - Re: Throwing in the towel! (Bill Church)
     2. 03:33 AM - Re: Throwing in the towel! (Jack)
     3. 04:42 AM - Re: Throwing in the towel! (Jack Phillips)
     4. 05:43 AM - Old Brodhead Pictures (DaveG601XL)
     5. 05:56 AM - Re: Old Brodhead Pictures (Gary Boothe)
     6. 06:30 AM - old Bhead pics-- propping a Corvair  (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC])
     7. 06:46 AM - Re: Pietenpol for dummies thread? (Michael Perez)
     8. 06:53 AM - Re: Throwing in the towel! (kevinpurtee)
     9. 06:59 AM - Re: Old Brodhead Pictures (DO NOT ARCHIVE)
    10. 07:00 AM - Re: Pietenpol for dummies thread? (Amsafetyc)
    11. 07:13 AM - Re: Throwing in the towel! (DO NOT ARCHIVE)
    12. 07:19 AM - Re: Old Brodhead Pictures (l.morlock)
    13. 07:28 AM - Re: MOVING DAY!!! (helspersew@aol.com)
    14. 07:30 AM - Re: Throwing in the towel! (helspersew@aol.com)
    15. 07:42 AM - Re: Pietenpol for dummies thread? (tools)
    16. 07:45 AM - Re: Old Brodhead Pictures (skipgadd@earthlink.net)
    17. 07:51 AM - Re: question for the radio geeks (scudrun)
    18. 07:55 AM - Re: Re: Throwing in the towel! (Jack Phillips)
    19. 08:27 AM - Engine Work (Michael Perez)
    20. 08:58 AM - Re: Re: Throwing in the towel! (Gene Rambo)
    21. 09:56 AM - Re: Engine Work (Jack@textors.com)
    22. 10:25 AM - Re: Re: question for the radio geeks (Ken Bickers)
    23. 10:34 AM - Re: Engine Work (Michael Perez)
    24. 12:27 PM - Re: Pietenpol for dummies thread? (glad2fly)
    25. 02:13 PM - Re: Re: Pietenpol for dummies thread? (Amsafetyc)
    26. 02:23 PM - Corvair core (Pilot78)
    27. 02:37 PM - Re: Pietenpol for dummies thread? (K5YAC)
    28. 02:40 PM - Ramping up for Brodhead (Lawrence Williams)
    29. 02:45 PM - Re: question for the radio geeks (scudrun)
    30. 03:16 PM - Re: Re: Pietenpol for dummies thread? (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
    31. 03:39 PM -  Airworthiness Certificate !!! (Michael Groah)
    32. 04:47 PM - Re: Airworthiness Certificate !!! (Jim Boyer)
    33. 04:48 PM - Re: Airworthiness Certificate !!! (Gary Boothe)
    34. 05:03 PM - Re: Corvair core (Ben Charvet)
    35. 05:55 PM - Re: Airworthiness Certificate !!! (Bill Church)
    36. 06:03 PM - Re: Airworthiness Certificate !!! (Jerry Dotson)
    37. 06:09 PM - Re: Corvair core (John Francis)
    38. 06:15 PM - Re: Airworthiness Certificate !!! (Jack Phillips)
    39. 07:34 PM - Re: Airworthiness Certificate !!! (Rick)
    40. 08:31 PM - Re: Airworthiness Certificate !!! (kevinpurtee)
    41. 09:33 PM - Re: Pietenpol for dummies thread? (K5YAC)
    42. 09:39 PM - Re: Airworthiness Certificate !!! (K5YAC)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 03:02:33 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Throwing in the towel!
    From: "Bill Church" <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
    Sure looks good, Gene. You know what color would go nicely with a black fuselage? ... Bill C. do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378073#378073


    Message 2


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    Time: 03:33:59 AM PST US
    From: "Jack" <jack@textors.com>
    Subject: Throwing in the towel!
    Gene great shots thanks. Be sure to stop in for a brat Friday at 11:30. Jack Textor DSM NX1929T do not archive _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 11:07 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Throwing in the towel! OK, Guys, as Jack and Matt have reported, I am officially throwing in the towel. Despite my best efforts, my Piet will not be making the trip this year. Will and I, however, will be there! I am attaching a few photos to show the progress. I am sending some of the wing rotating jig I built. I am ready to paint the wing. The other photos show the last test-fit of the sheet metal before paint. I put the first coat of color on the tail surfaces and ailerons today. Before we leave for Brodhead, I expect that the tail will all be installed and rigged, leaving only the wing and sheet metal to paint. The wheels I am using (not in the photo) are fabric covered and being painted with the tail. Since these photos, I have finished plumbing the engine, and it is ready to run but for the exhaust stacks. I gave it my best effort!! See you all next week!! Gene


    Message 3


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    Time: 04:42:08 AM PST US
    From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Throwing in the towel!
    This Pietenpol is going to become the new standard for the purists. Even the cables have wrapped and soldered ends - no nicopress fittings or swagings for Gene! And all the hardware is cad-plated, but with the silver cadmium plating as was done in the 1930's, not the gold colored stuff we have now. I have no idea where Gene had to go to find the hardware. Absolutely beautiful job, Gene. I will be proud to fly alongside such a ship next year on the way to Brodhead. Hope to see you there next week. I won't know until Wednesday whether I'm coming or not, but I do know that if I come, it won't be by Pietenpol. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 12:07 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Throwing in the towel! OK, Guys, as Jack and Matt have reported, I am officially throwing in the towel. Despite my best efforts, my Piet will not be making the trip this year. Will and I, however, will be there! I am attaching a few photos to show the progress. I am sending some of the wing rotating jig I built. I am ready to paint the wing. The other photos show the last test-fit of the sheet metal before paint. I put the first coat of color on the tail surfaces and ailerons today. Before we leave for Brodhead, I expect that the tail will all be installed and rigged, leaving only the wing and sheet metal to paint. The wheels I am using (not in the photo) are fabric covered and being painted with the tail. Since these photos, I have finished plumbing the engine, and it is ready to run but for the exhaust stacks. I gave it my best effort!! See you all next week!! Gene


    Message 4


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    Time: 05:43:33 AM PST US
    Subject: Old Brodhead Pictures
    From: "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher@ge.com>
    Here is another something to get us into the Brodhead state of mind. I was going through some of my old photo albums and pulled out some pictures I took there in 1983. This was the year after my father bought a partially completed GN-1 Aircamper project so we drove up to Brodhead for the day. I apologize for the quality. Since my scanner is no longer working I used a digital camera to take pictures of the pictures. Maybe someone can shed some light on the aircraft in the pictures. - The under-construction picture with the radial engine was one that really caught my eye. - As I recall, the shot of the Corvair engine being hand propped has a crowd behind it because it was not starting. There was plenty of suggestions on how to get it started. I believe they did eventually get it running. - I looked up the FAA registry on N3265 in the taxiing shot and it was exported to England in 1990. See you all there next week, -------- David Gallagher Zodiac 601 XL-B: flying, 200+ hours now Next project under construction: Aircamper Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378078#378078 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/brodhead1983_04_929.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/brodhead1983_03_730.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/brodhead1983_02_141.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/brodhead1983_01_996.jpg


    Message 5


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    Time: 05:56:04 AM PST US
    From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: Old Brodhead Pictures
    Those were great, David! Isn't that a much younger Mike Cuy propping that Corvair? Gary Boothe NX308MB Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DaveG601XL Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 5:43 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Old Brodhead Pictures --> <david.m.gallagher@ge.com> Here is another something to get us into the Brodhead state of mind. I was going through some of my old photo albums and pulled out some pictures I took there in 1983. This was the year after my father bought a partially completed GN-1 Aircamper project so we drove up to Brodhead for the day. I apologize for the quality. Since my scanner is no longer working I used a digital camera to take pictures of the pictures. Maybe someone can shed some light on the aircraft in the pictures. - The under-construction picture with the radial engine was one that really caught my eye. - As I recall, the shot of the Corvair engine being hand propped has a crowd behind it because it was not starting. There was plenty of suggestions on how to get it started. I believe they did eventually get it running. - I looked up the FAA registry on N3265 in the taxiing shot and it was exported to England in 1990. See you all there next week, -------- David Gallagher Zodiac 601 XL-B: flying, 200+ hours now Next project under construction: Aircamper Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378078#378078 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/brodhead1983_04_929.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/brodhead1983_03_730.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/brodhead1983_02_141.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/brodhead1983_01_996.jpg


    Message 6


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    Time: 06:30:07 AM PST US
    From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
    Subject: old Bhead pics-- propping a Corvair
    That's not me propping Duane Tulba's silver and black Corvair Pietenpol though I do remember him flying it into Brodhead several times. I also never swing my leg when hand propping like that gentleman was shown doing-- I step backward and pull down..but I digress. Mike C. do not archive


    Message 7


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    Time: 06:46:47 AM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: Pietenpol for dummies thread?
    Jamie, welcome to the Pietenpol list. - As already mentioned, the Pietenpol does not come in kit form, it is bu ilt from plans purchased from the Pietenpol family.- I believe there are about 14-16 pages of plans depending on if you build the three piece wing a nd straight axle landing gear.- The plans include provisions to install C ub type landing gear as well as model A Ford, Corvair or Continental engine s. Places like Aircraft Spruce sell wood kits...packages of wood already cut t o build the various parts of the plane...but not everything is included in these kits and you still need to cut the pieces to the proper length to fit .- Plywood kits need to be cut to shape. This is as close to a full plane kit as you will find. You will also need to build your own jigs for duplic ating the wing ribs, fuselage, engine mount, etc. There are those who offer metal pieces and parts custom made for you, but I have not used such parts and can't attest to the quality and cost. There is no detailed model that I am aware of to build that would simulate building the real plane. The plane truly is built- from scratch...as said before...some more then others, and they are all unique, works of art. I am sure you will figure out what is right for you and if you choose to pr oceeded with the Pietenpol, don't be shy to ask questions and seek help fro m this list. Michael Perez =0APietenpol HINT Videos =0AKaretaker Aero =0Awww.karetakeraero.com


    Message 8


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    Time: 06:53:52 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Throwing in the towel!
    From: "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>
    That's spectacular, Gene! do not archive -------- Kevin &quot;Axel&quot; Purtee NX899KP Austin/San Marcos, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378084#378084


    Message 9


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    Time: 06:59:55 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Old Brodhead Pictures
    From: "DO NOT ARCHIVE" <bphillip@SHENTEL.NET>
    Thanks for the trip down memory lane! The best part of these pictures is that it shows how little the Brodhead Pietenpol reunion has changed. The red ship (N3265) was built by Hosea (SP?) Challis, and had been modified just enough that he thought it appropriate to call it a Challis "Chaffinch" rather than a Pietenpol Air Camper. I remember seeing Ed Sampson & Francis Saunders' LeBlond powered Air Camper under construction at about that time as well. I need to dig out some of my old pics too. I know I have a really good one with Allen Rudolf and some skinny kid (me) in front of N13691 in 1985 or so. -------- Brett Phillips PLEASE DO NOT ARCHIVE! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378085#378085


    Message 10


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    Time: 07:00:46 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Pietenpol for dummies thread?
    From: Amsafetyc <amsafetyc@aol.com>
    Some of the best information and advice has already been provided however, I will share it with you again at the risk or repeating it for others that already know it. Which amounts to every builder on the list. "Don't over think it, just start building!" For about 20 bucks and a few hours you can build a mock up and see what you think or you can continue down your current path and by next year at this time you will have wasted a year and accomplished nothing. If you want real life then we will see you in Brodhead in 7 days. John Do not archive we all know this already it's for the new guys Sent from my iPhone On Jul 9, 2012, at 2:43 PM, "glad2fly" <jamie@drjordan.us> wrote: > > I'm interested in the plane, maybe building it. If there was a thread that explained the various "kits" and methods of creating the shapes I would appreciate it. I'm not a woodworker. > > Also, regarding "kits." I understand that the Pietenpol design is more or less a scratch build. It seems like some entrepreur would have already created a whole kit with all the parts to sell though. I'd much be flying sooner than later and pay someone for the leg work. Or if there were a list of parts and where they can be found thread that would be helpful. I know there's a lot on this site but it's piecemeal...or maybe I just haven't read enough yet. > > Is there a model that I can build that would give me a idea of what the bigger project is all about? > > I've got a ton of questions and will try to find the answers here before posting the obvious....I hope. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=377795#377795 > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 11


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    Time: 07:13:42 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Throwing in the towel!
    From: "DO NOT ARCHIVE" <bphillip@SHENTEL.NET>
    [quote="pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net"]This Pietenpol is going to become the new standard for the purists. > [b] You aren't kidding! Gene's cowling is pretty sweet too. If I can get some time to focus on it, there could easily be another Ford powered Piet joining the mix from VA next year. -------- Brett Phillips PLEASE DO NOT ARCHIVE! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378087#378087


    Message 12


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    Time: 07:19:18 AM PST US
    From: "l.morlock" <l.morlock@att.net>
    Subject: Re: Old Brodhead Pictures
    A friend of mine gave me the attached picture of Allen Rudolf and 13691 taken at Oshkosh many years ago. DO NOT ARCHIVE ----- Original Message ----- From: "DO NOT ARCHIVE" <bphillip@SHENTEL.NET> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 9:59 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Old Brodhead Pictures > <bphillip@shentel.net> > > Thanks for the trip down memory lane! The best part of these pictures is > that it shows how little the Brodhead Pietenpol reunion has changed. > The red ship (N3265) was built by Hosea (SP?) Challis, and had been > modified just enough that he thought it appropriate to call it a Challis > "Chaffinch" rather than a Pietenpol Air Camper. > I remember seeing Ed Sampson & Francis Saunders' LeBlond powered Air > Camper under construction at about that time as well. I need to dig out > some of my old pics too. I know I have a really good one with Allen > Rudolf and some skinny kid (me) in front of N13691 in 1985 or so. > > -------- > Brett Phillips > PLEASE DO NOT ARCHIVE! > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378085#378085 > > >


    Message 13


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    Time: 07:28:35 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: MOVING DAY!!!
    From: helspersew@aol.com
    Douwe, Congratulations!! What a great feeling it must be.....again!! Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL do not archive -----Original Message----- From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg@earthlink.net> Sent: Wed, Jul 11, 2012 1:56 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: MOVING DAY!!! Well, looks like Monday is the big moving day! The wings are already there, but on Monday we plan to movethe rest over as she=99s pretty much done. We=99ll get the wings hung on Monday so it=99s readyfor my retu rn from Brodhead. Douwe


    Message 14


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    Time: 07:30:24 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Throwing in the towel!
    From: helspersew@aol.com
    Gene, As Jack has stated, a new standard is about to be set!! Fantastic!! See yo u at Brodhead! Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL do not archive -----Original Message----- From: Gene Rambo <generambo@msn.com> Sent: Wed, Jul 11, 2012 11:08 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Throwing in the towel! OK, Guys, as Jack and Matt have reported, I am officially throwing in the t owel. Despite my best efforts, my Piet will not be making the trip this ye ar. Will and I, however, will be there! I am attaching a few photos to sh ow the progress. I am sending some of the wing rotating jig I built. I am ready to paint the wing. The other photos show the last test-fit of the s heet metal before paint. I put the first coat of color on the tail surface s and ailerons today. Before we leave for Brodhead, I expect that the tail will all be installed and rigged, leaving only the wing and sheet metal to paint. The wheels I am using (not in the photo) are fabric covered and be ing painted with the tail. Since these photos, I have finished plumbing th e engine, and it is ready to run but for the exhaust stacks. I gave it my best effort!! See you all next week!! Gene


    Message 15


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    Time: 07:42:38 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Pietenpol for dummies thread?
    From: "tools" <n0kkj@yahoo.com>
    Hey Jamie, There are lots of Piet models out there too, however, I wouldn't consider any of those useful for insight into building a piet. The design IS particularly well suited for duplicating in 1/3 or 1/4 scale, which would give you an idea of how one goes together. Years ago I saw a 1/4 scale model a ford on ebay... THAT would be cool! >From what I gather about your point of view, finding a partial complete is probably a good way for you to go. While ALL homebuilts have uniqueness, there are a couple of aspects about the Piet which are more substantial than most other designs. Primarily the engine, fuse length and gear. I'd highly recommend Brodhead or just finding some other venue with examples of these differences so you can determine how close to the configuration you desire, the project would be, which will help you determine it's worth to you. I'll dig around and see if I can find the contact info the Piet I referred to earlier. I'd have bought it, but timing was bad. I bought a flying Piet last year as well (hope to have it at brodhead) which was EXACTLY the configuration I wanted save the engine (though since I've decided it's definitely the engine I want, an A-65). I think it was a great way to go, my son (now 18yrs) and I are really having the time of our lives with the plane, and it's firmly cementing in my mind, the configuration of the plane I am building. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378093#378093


    Message 16


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    Time: 07:45:53 AM PST US
    From: "skipgadd@earthlink.net" <skipgadd@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Old Brodhead Pictures
    Very cool pictures Dave, The 929 picture is the Ted Davis, Dick Weeden and Francis Saunders LaBlond Piet. I believe it is still on the field with an A model. Jack Cox wrote an article in Sport Aviation April 1990 including this Piet. The 730 picture is Duane Tulba's Piet. That is his brother in law Tim Shefjak with the prop. That Corvair with blower fan could be hard to start. Duane brought it to Brodhead for over 10 years, but don't think it has flown in a while. Duane and Tim still come to Brodhead. The 996 picture is Verl Deal's Corvair Piet, it came to Brodhead a lot of years and Verl still comes. As of last year he was still working on another Corvair Piet for his son in law, good guy. Skip > [Original Message] > From: DaveG601XL <david.m.gallagher@ge.com> > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> > Date: 7/12/2012 8:45:07 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Old Brodhead Pictures > <david.m.gallagher@ge.com> > > Here is another something to get us into the Brodhead state of mind. I was going through some of my old photo albums and pulled out some pictures I took there in 1983. This was the year after my father bought a partially completed GN-1 Aircamper project so we drove up to Brodhead for the day. I apologize for the quality. Since my scanner is no longer working I used a digital camera to take pictures of the pictures. > > Maybe someone can shed some light on the aircraft in the pictures. > - The under-construction picture with the radial engine was one that really caught my eye. > - As I recall, the shot of the Corvair engine being hand propped has a crowd behind it because it was not starting. There was plenty of suggestions on how to get it started. I believe they did eventually get it running. > - I looked up the FAA registry on N3265 in the taxiing shot and it was exported to England in 1990. > > See you all there next week, > > -------- > David Gallagher > Zodiac 601 XL-B: flying, 200+ hours now > Next project under construction: Aircamper > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378078#378078 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/brodhead1983_04_929.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/brodhead1983_03_730.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/brodhead1983_02_141.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/brodhead1983_01_996.jpg > >


    Message 17


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    Time: 07:51:02 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: question for the radio geeks
    From: "scudrun" <jstreet@uwaterloo.ca>
    I got to agree with K5YAC here. I have spent as much time building radio transcievers and antennas as people spend building Pietenpols. Yes I'm that radio geek someone was looking for. If the antenna feedpoint has the same impedance as the feed line then the length of the feedline is only going to affect loss and has nothing to do with tuning. However in the real world antennas even if they are perfectly tuned, change their tune when something comes near them, and it all gets complicated. What people need is something that is simple and that works reasonably well and is easy to install. I am about to add a radio to my Piet. What I will do is use a piece of RG-58 coax long enough to run from the radio location to an area behind the seat that I can reach through inspection ports with the covering on the aircraft. I'll remove 24" of the shield being careful not to damage the insulation on the center conductor and leave a bit of the shield exposed to attach the ground radials. That's about 1/4 wave at 121.5 MHz. I'll solder four more 24" lengths of wire (say about 16 gauge) to the shield where I cut it and arrange to fan them out as evenly spaced as possible and as perpendicular as possible to the center conductor which is the antenna radiator. If I have to have bends in any of these wires I'll try to keep the bends as close to the ends of the wires as possible and run hem inline with the plane avoiding bending them in a direction that would be parallel to the antenna radiator. I'll arrange the antenna to be upside down with the radials extending in a horizontal plane and the radiator running straight down and as far away as possible from other conductors such as control cables, harness cables etc. The coax, I'll try to run straight away from the radiator in line with the plane of the radial wires of the ground plane until it is more than 2 feet (prefereably more than 4 feet) away from the antenna before it runs in any other direction. Based on lots of installations where I adhered to these princip! les the antenna with be awesome for these needs. BTW I would highly recommend against using a rubber duck antenna in combination with a headset. I've seen many problems with power from the antenna right beside the headset wires picking up radio frequency energy into the microphone line and playing havoc. Getting a proper external antenna mounted several feet away makes a world of difference to being heard as well as hearing. If the antenna is only a few feet away and you are still not being heard properly you could try putting some clip-on ferrite beads on your headset wires which can make a huge difference in improving your microphone audio in this situation. 72 (that's radio geek speak for softly saying best regards) Joe True and false. The feedline (be it coax or whatever feedline you prefer, although coax is standard), is not an active element. Yes, it must be of the proper impedance, and using the best type of coax for the given application is critical in proper transmission of signal, but length has nothing to do with tuning. This part of the conversation gets pretty deep as we start discussing dielectric materials, velocity factors, etc. To summarize, different frequencies travel through different dielectric materials at different rates (speeds)... therefore no one type of 50ohm coax is suitable for all applications... for example, I use LMR400 in my HF station. If I were wanting to squeeze every bit of signal out of my handheld air band transceiver I'd probably use LMR240 instead of RG-58, but at the lengths we are talking about the losses are negligible. That is really what we are talking about when it comes to feedlines, losses, not tuning. For example, the attenuation of a 100' length of RG-58 at 150MHz is ~6.2dB... the same length of LMR240 is only 3.0dB, or in radio talk, an entire s-unit! Ok, I understand, we aren't running 100', we are running closer to 10', which reduces those values by a factor of 10, or .62dB and .3dB of loss respectively. At that length we are talking about a difference of .32dB of signal loss between the two. Am I going to run out and get some LMR240 for that small of a boost in signal? Nope, I'll grab the readily available RG-58 and cut to whatever length I need... the shorter the better. Remember, length=attenuation=loss.[/quote] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378096#378096


    Message 18


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    Time: 07:55:57 AM PST US
    From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: Throwing in the towel!
    Brett, that would be pretty cool if you and Gene fly your Model A Piets, and Matt Paxton and I fly our Continental Piets together in a 4-ship formation all the way from Virginia next year. Hurry up and finish it! Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DO NOT ARCHIVE Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 10:13 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Throwing in the towel! --> <bphillip@shentel.net> [quote="pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net"]This Pietenpol is going to become the new standard for the purists. > [b] You aren't kidding! Gene's cowling is pretty sweet too. If I can get some time to focus on it, there could easily be another Ford powered Piet joining the mix from VA next year. -------- Brett Phillips PLEASE DO NOT ARCHIVE! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378087#378087


    Message 19


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    Time: 08:27:31 AM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Engine Work
    Attached are a few more engine work pictures. I believe at this point I will cease engine work and start covering the fuselage. Michael Perez Pietenpol HINT Videos Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com


    Message 20


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    Time: 08:58:58 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Throwing in the towel!
    From: Gene Rambo <generambo@msn.com>
    Brett, absolutely you are going to finish and we'll do it next year!! Brett has been helping me a lot lately and gave it HIS best shot to help me finish. I owe him and will be on his butt to get his going. Like Jack said, a 4 ship from VA would be awesome!! Gene Do not archive On Jul 12, 2012, at 10:13 AM, "DO NOT ARCHIVE" <bphillip@shentel.net> wrote: > > [quote="pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net"]This Pietenpol is going to become the new standard for the purists. >> [b] > > > You aren't kidding! Gene's cowling is pretty sweet too. If I can get some time to focus on it, there could easily be another Ford powered Piet joining the mix from VA next year. > > -------- > Brett Phillips > PLEASE DO NOT ARCHIVE! > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378087#378087 > > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 21


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    Time: 09:56:54 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Engine Work
    From: "Jack@textors.com" <jack@textors.com>
    Michael isn't it fun! Looks great! You will want string around the center st uds also. In my shop I keep the engine covered. You should too despite your spotless shop. Jack Textor Sent from my iPad On Jul 12, 2012, at 10:27 AM, Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net> wrote : > Attached are a few more engine work pictures. I believe at this point I wi ll cease engine work and start covering the fuselage. > > Michael Perez > Pietenpol HINT Videos > Karetaker Aero > www.karetakeraero.com > <IMG_7069.jpg> > <IMG_7049.jpg> > <IMG_7068.jpg> > <IMG_7067.jpg>


    Message 22


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    Time: 10:25:06 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: question for the radio geeks
    From: Ken Bickers <bickers.ken@gmail.com>
    Joe, thanks for this information. It is timely, at least for me. Would it be possible to post a simple drawing showing what you intend to do in terms of your installation? It wouldn't need to be to scale, just something that gives a visual orientation. Thanks, Ken On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 8:50 AM, scudrun <jstreet@uwaterloo.ca> wrote: > > I got to agree with K5YAC here. I have spent as much time building radio transcievers and antennas as people spend building Pietenpols. Yes I'm that radio geek someone was looking for. If the antenna feedpoint has the same impedance as the feed line then the length of the feedline is only going to affect loss and has nothing to do with tuning. However in the real world antennas even if they are perfectly tuned, change their tune when something comes near them, and it all gets complicated. What people need is something that is simple and that works reasonably well and is easy to install. I am about to add a radio to my Piet. What I will do is use a piece of RG-58 coax long enough to run from the radio location to an area behind the seat that I can reach through inspection ports with the covering on the aircraft. I'll remove 24" of the shield being careful not to damage the insulation on the center conductor and leave a bit of the shield exposed to attach the ground radia! > ls. That's about 1/4 wave at 121.5 MHz. I'll solder four more 24" lengths of wire (say about 16 gauge) to the shield where I cut it and arrange to fan them out as evenly spaced as possible and as perpendicular as possible to the center conductor which is the antenna radiator. If I have to have bends in any of these wires I'll try to keep the bends as close to the ends of the wires as possible and run hem inline with the plane avoiding bending them in a direction that would be parallel to the antenna radiator. I'll arrange the antenna to be upside down with the radials extending in a horizontal plane and the radiator running straight down and as far away as possible from other conductors such as control cables, harness cables etc. The coax, I'll try to run straight away from the radiator in line with the plane of the radial wires of the ground plane until it is more than 2 feet (prefereably more than 4 feet) away from the antenna before it runs in any other direction. B! > ased on lots of installations where I adhered to these princip! > les the > > antenna with be awesome for these needs. > > BTW I would highly recommend against using a rubber duck antenna in combination with a headset. I've seen many problems with power from the antenna right beside the headset wires picking up radio frequency energy into the microphone line and playing havoc. Getting a proper external antenna mounted several feet away makes a world of difference to being heard as well as hearing. If the antenna is only a few feet away and you are still not being heard properly you could try putting some clip-on ferrite beads on your headset wires which can make a huge difference in improving your microphone audio in this situation. > > 72 (that's radio geek speak for softly saying best regards) > > Joe > > > True and false. The feedline (be it coax or whatever feedline you prefer, although coax is standard), is not an active element. Yes, it must be of the proper impedance, and using the best type of coax for the given application is critical in proper transmission of signal, but length has nothing to do with tuning. This part of the conversation gets pretty deep as we start discussing dielectric materials, velocity factors, etc. To summarize, different frequencies travel through different dielectric materials at different rates (speeds)... therefore no one type of 50ohm coax is suitable for all applications... for example, I use LMR400 in my HF station. If I were wanting to squeeze every bit of signal out of my handheld air band transceiver I'd probably use LMR240 instead of RG-58, but at the lengths we are talking about the losses are negligible. That is really what we are talking about when it comes to feedlines, losses, not tuning. For example, the attenuation of a 10! > 0' length of RG-58 at 150MHz is ~6.2dB... the same length of LMR240 is only 3.0dB, or in radio talk, an entire s-unit! Ok, I understand, we aren't running 100', we are running closer to 10', which reduces those values by a factor of 10, or .62dB and .3dB of loss respectively. At that length we are talking about a difference of .32dB of signal loss between the two. Am I going to run out and get some LMR240 for that small of a boost in signal? Nope, I'll grab the readily available RG-58 and cut to whatever length I need... the shorter the better. Remember, length=attenuation=loss.[/quote] > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378096#378096 > >


    Message 23


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    Time: 10:34:39 AM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: Engine Work
    It IS fun!- There is string around those studs, hard to see in the small picture perhaps. Whenever the engines are not being worked on/photographed, they are covered .-- Happy to hear you appreciate a clean shop! Michael Perez =0APietenpol HINT Videos =0AKaretaker Aero =0Awww.karetakeraero.com =0A


    Message 24


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    Time: 12:27:50 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Pietenpol for dummies thread?
    From: "glad2fly" <jamie@drjordan.us>
    I just visited a Piet builder this morning (Ken) who very graciously spent almost 2 hours showing me his incredible Piet. I'm astounded at the effort that goes into building this plane. I don't know what it is but there's something about building it yourself that interests me. It's like this guy that built (is building) Bishop's Castle. A one man show I had to go see myself. I want to put my stamp on something like this. Figuring out what that long-term effort/passion will be isn't easy. I'm planning my future out loud here. The craftiness of building the Piet is starting to sink in. Learning how to read the 1930's plans kinda concerns me but I suppose everyone gets over the interpretation and figures it out. And after all, there's just a bunch of pieces of wood that can be remade if needed. I know the plans call for a wood frame but would there be any significant issues using a combination of aluminum and wood? Do those 2 materials have any history being used well in a handcrafted plane? I know this would take the plane out of the traditional plans and not accepted as a Pietenpol. I'm just asking questions here and to those that think that would be sacrilegious I understand. Jamie Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378121#378121


    Message 25


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    Time: 02:13:28 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Pietenpol for dummies thread?
    From: Amsafetyc <amsafetyc@aol.com>
    Ahhhhhhh yes you, you've entered phase 2 substitution of materials. One of the hallmarks of the newbie both common and an irresistible temptation to improve upon a great design and make it worse. The good news it's your airplane and can do what you want. The bad news is you can do what you want to your airplane in the interest of experimentation and most all will suggest that you buy the books and stick to the plans. John Do not archive Sent from my iPhone On Jul 12, 2012, at 3:27 PM, "glad2fly" <jamie@drjordan.us> wrote: > > I just visited a Piet builder this morning (Ken) who very graciously spent almost 2 hours showing me his incredible Piet. I'm astounded at the effort that goes into building this plane. I don't know what it is but there's something about building it yourself that interests me. It's like this guy that built (is building) Bishop's Castle. A one man show I had to go see myself. I want to put my stamp on something like this. Figuring out what that long-term effort/passion will be isn't easy. I'm planning my future out loud here. > > The craftiness of building the Piet is starting to sink in. Learning how to read the 1930's plans kinda concerns me but I suppose everyone gets over the interpretation and figures it out. And after all, there's just a bunch of pieces of wood that can be remade if needed. > > I know the plans call for a wood frame but would there be any significant issues using a combination of aluminum and wood? Do those 2 materials have any history being used well in a handcrafted plane? I know this would take the plane out of the traditional plans and not accepted as a Pietenpol. I'm just asking questions here and to those that think that would be sacrilegious I understand. > > Jamie > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378121#378121 > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 26


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    Time: 02:23:20 PM PST US
    Subject: Corvair core
    From: "Pilot78" <brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com>
    I got my Corvair engine back to the hangar a few weeks ago. It's a running engine straight out of the 65' with all the correct serial numbers listed in the W.W. rebuild manual. I felt it was a decent price at $150, the only kicker is I had to purchase the 2 engines the guy had to get that price. So if anyone needs a good core out here on the West coast I have an extra. Contact me off list if interested or know someone who is. Brian SLC-UT Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378126#378126 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img02516_20120629_1543_122.jpg


    Message 27


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    Time: 02:37:42 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Pietenpol for dummies thread?
    From: "K5YAC" <hangar10@cox.net>
    Amsafetyc wrote: > Ahhhhhhh yes you, you've entered phase 2 substitution of materials. One of the hallmarks of the newbie both common and an irresistible temptation to improve upon a great design and make it worse. > > John > > Do not archive > Good one John... literally made me laugh out loud. Jamie, if you don't believe John, I've got a beeeutiful set of aluminum control horns I'll sell ya, CHEAP! No skimping here, they are 6061-T6, polished to a mirror finish and ready to be fitted! I'm sure there are various other "improvements" for sale laying around collecting dust. I wasted a couple of weeks (at least) farting around with these... then built the steel ones according to plans in a weekend. I won't even charge you for my sweat. ;-) Hey John, seems like it's been a really long time since you haven't been making your trips to Tulsa... looking forward to having a cold one (or two) with ya next week. I'll bring the lemons... ha! -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage and Fuse framed up - Working on Landing Gear Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378127#378127


    Message 28


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    Time: 02:40:45 PM PST US
    From: Lawrence Williams <lnawms@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Ramping up for Brodhead
    Just finished washing the Piet and will wax it tomorrow. (I know, I know, w hy bother when I fly behind a Ford). - -Not too sure if I'll polish the struts because they are a magnet to grim ey hands belonging to dumpy, 60-something guys holding forth to their buddi es about when they, "Had one just like this".Happens every year and I keep telling myself to just paint the darned things and be done with it....but I never do. - Flew for a while this a.m. just to make sure everything is still flying in close formation and nothing fell off. Guess that wraps up the preflight che cks! - Gotta douse the tent with h2o repellant, get-the citronella candles, put some clothes into a bag and be ready to leap off. - WX looks a little dicey in the forecast at the moment so I'll keep an eye o n it but assuming everything works as planned, I'll see you all in a week o r so. - Fly safe- - Larry (Top Curmudgeon) Williams NX899LW -


    Message 29


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    Time: 02:45:15 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: question for the radio geeks
    From: "scudrun" <jstreet@uwaterloo.ca>
    Here is a link that has some diagrams. Just imagine the diagram on the right turned upside down. Also you don't need to use a connector to form the feed point of the antenna as shown there. You can just remove 1/4 wave length of shield from the cut end of the coax (24 inches) and use the center conductor with it's insulation still intact as your radiator (the red line). Solder the radial wires (blue) (also 24 inches) to the end of the shield where it is cut back and run them out to anchor points to form a plane. They can angle upwards in this case when the radiator is tensioned downwards to an anchor point on the fuselage. Run the radiator straight down and anchor it to a piece of the wooden frame. You can add an extender to the end of any of these wires if necessary by simply tying a piece of mason line to the wire and running it to a convenient point where you can drive a small wood screw. It is not critical that the radials form a perfect plane or cone, just go with what works and doesn't hang up on anything with the control system. Keep it light and simple. It is protected inside the fuselage and doesn't have to be super robust. Run the coax roughly paralleled to the blue ground plane wires until you are far from the radiator (several feet). Choose a coaxial cable that has the same type of connector on the end as your radio (usually a BNC for a handheld radio). Here is the link: http://273k.net/gsm/designing-and-building-a-gsm-antenna/monopole/ When I make mine I'll snap some pics along the way and post. Joe Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378131#378131


    Message 30


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    Time: 03:16:47 PM PST US
    From: AMsafetyC@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Pietenpol for dummies thread?
    Mark, We are camping on field and since there's no more job, no more trips to Tulsa for warm beer and lemon and no more free trips to Brodhead, I got to pony up and pay the freight to go anywhere. I sure hope I land something soon. I am looking forward to see you for a cold Yuengling Lager NFL( No Freakin Lime), it doesn't get any better than that. I be there on Thursday, see ya then. John Do not archive


    Message 31


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    Time: 03:39:20 PM PST US
    From: Michael Groah <dskogrover@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Airworthiness Certificate !!!
    =0A=0A=0AToday we received our airworthiness certificate and my repairman's certificate for 414MV!- It feels good to have that part done.-- Now I just need to do that final part..... fly it!- The first flight should h appen in the next couple of weeks.- =0A=0AMike Groah=0ATulare CA


    Message 32


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    Time: 04:47:53 PM PST US
    From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Airworthiness Certificate !!!
    Mike and Vic, Congratulations!!!!!!!!!!! Your Piet really looks great and really glad to see you have it signed off. It is officially an airplane now. Take a video of your first flight and send it to us. Love the colors you picked too. Cheers, Jim B. =C2-


    Message 33


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    Time: 04:48:35 PM PST US
    From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: Airworthiness Certificate !!!
    Mike, I've been working through these 100+ days all week on rigging, and that's just about the best news I've heard all week!! Your plane is beautiful!! Gary Boothe NX308MB Do not archive From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Groah Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:39 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Airworthiness Certificate !!! Today we received our airworthiness certificate and my repairman's certificate for 414MV! It feels good to have that part done. Now I just need to do that final part..... fly it! The first flight should happen in the next couple of weeks. Mike Groah Tulare CA


    Message 34


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    Time: 05:03:54 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Corvair core
    From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet@gmail.com>
    I wouldnt sell the extra until you are sure you dont need it. I originally planned to use Corvair power and disassembled 3 cores to get enough usable parts . At least wait till you get your best one apart. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 12, 2012, at 5:23 PM, "Pilot78" <brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com> wrote: > > I got my Corvair engine back to the hangar a few weeks ago. It's a running engine straight out of the 65' with all the correct serial numbers listed in the W.W. rebuild manual. I felt it was a decent price at $150, the only kicker is I had to purchase the 2 engines the guy had to get that price. So if anyone needs a good core out here on the West coast I have an extra. Contact me off list if interested or know someone who is. > > Brian > SLC-UT > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378126#378126 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img02516_20120629_1543_122.jpg > > > > > > >


    Message 35


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    Time: 05:55:15 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Airworthiness Certificate !!!
    From: "Bill Church" <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
    Bee-yoo-tee-full! Well done, gentlemen. Bill C. do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378149#378149


    Message 36


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    Time: 06:03:49 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Airworthiness Certificate !!!
    From: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson@centurylink.net>
    Hearty CONGRATULATIONS to you. I know just how great it feels but wait........it gets much better. The first time you put her nose into the wind and get 5oo feet under your wings. Well just see for yourself. do not archive -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 First flight June 16,2012 Started building July, 2009 21&quot; wheels Lycoming O-235 C2C Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378150#378150


    Message 37


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    Time: 06:09:42 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Corvair core
    From: "John Francis" <Mrkringles@msn.com>
    Almost everything you can see in your picture will be scrapped as the valuable core is hidden underneath. Dont forget to save the magnesium cooling fan for some backyard fun! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kVh4NQ7geg&feature=related Do not archive. -------- John Francis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378151#378151


    Message 38


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    Time: 06:15:03 PM PST US
    From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Airworthiness Certificate !!!
    Looks great, Mike! I must say, I like your paint scheme. Everything looks good except the prop turns the wrong way. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Groah Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:39 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Airworthiness Certificate !!! Today we received our airworthiness certificate and my repairman's certificate for 414MV! It feels good to have that part done. Now I just need to do that final part..... fly it! The first flight should happen in the next couple of weeks. Mike Groah Tulare CA


    Message 39


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    Time: 07:34:30 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Airworthiness Certificate !!!
    From: Rick <lmforge@earthlink.net>
    Congratulations Mike and Vic. I bet the feeling is almost indescribable! Rick Schreiber Valparaiso IN Sent from my iPad On Jul 12, 2012, at 5:38 PM, Michael Groah <dskogrover@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > Today we received our airworthiness certificate and my repairman's certifi cate for 414MV! It feels good to have that part done. Now I just need to d o that final part..... fly it! The first flight should happen in the next c ouple of weeks. > > Mike Groah > Tulare CA > > > <AW Cert.jpg> > <Pietenpol 414MV.jpg>


    Message 40


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    Time: 08:31:45 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Airworthiness Certificate !!!
    From: "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>
    Wow! Very nice. Congratulations! do not archive -------- Kevin &quot;Axel&quot; Purtee NX899KP Austin/San Marcos, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378167#378167


    Message 41


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    Time: 09:33:54 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Pietenpol for dummies thread?
    From: "K5YAC" <hangar10@cox.net>
    Tyler and I will be arriving Thursday, and we are planning to camp on the field too... this ought to be great. Have you prepared that safety spiel for the kiddos? -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage and Fuse framed up - Working on Landing Gear Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378169#378169


    Message 42


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    Time: 09:39:36 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Airworthiness Certificate !!!
    From: "K5YAC" <hangar10@cox.net>
    Looks great! Congratulations! -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage and Fuse framed up - Working on Landing Gear Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378170#378170




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