---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 08/18/12: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:45 AM - Re: Aluminum Strut fittings (Jim Markle) 2. 05:57 AM - Re: Aluminum Strut fittings (Ken Bickers) 3. 06:05 AM - Re: Aluminum Strut fittings (Jim Markle) 4. 06:06 AM - Re: Son-in-law-to-be sits in Piet... film at 11:00... (Gary Boothe) 5. 06:19 AM - Re: Aluminum Strut fittings (l.morlock) 6. 12:24 PM - big numbers (bender) 7. 12:35 PM - Re: big numbers (Jim Markle) 8. 02:32 PM - Re: big numbers (Jack@textors.com) 9. 04:23 PM - BFR's......first flights? (helspersew@aol.com) 10. 04:30 PM - Re: BFR's......first flights? (gboothe5@comcast.net) 11. 07:53 PM - Re: Scout out a Scout (curtdm(at)gmail.com) 12. 09:59 PM - Re: BFR's......first flights? (Mark Roberts) 13. 10:01 PM - Re: big numbers (Mark Roberts) 14. 10:23 PM - Re: Control sticks in position... (Mark Roberts) 15. 10:33 PM - Re: Re: big numbers (jorge lizarraga) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:45:31 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Strut fittings From: Jim Markle VGhhbmtzIERhbiwgSSdsbCBnaXZlIHRoYXQgYSB0cnkuaGVsc3BlcnNld0Bhb2wuY29tIHdyb3Rl OkppbSwKwqAKSWYgeW91IGFyZSBjYXJlZnVsIG1heWJlIHlvdSBjYW4gZ2V0IGF3YXkgd2l0aCBp dC4gQSBsYXNlciBsZXZlbCB3b3VsZCBiZSB2ZXJ5IGhlbHBmdWwuIFRoZW4geW91IGNvdWxkIGJl IHN1cmUgb2Ygd2hhdCB5b3UgYXJlIGRvaW5nLgrCoApEYW4gSGVsc3BlcgpQdXJ5ZWFyLCBUTgot LS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQpGcm9tOiBKaW0gTWFya2xlIDxqaW1fbWFya2xlQG1p bmRzcHJpbmcuY29tPgpUbzogcGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3QgPHBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmlj cy5jb20+ClNlbnQ6IEZyaSwgQXVnIDE3LCAyMDEyIDEwOjM2IGFtClN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBQaWV0 ZW5wb2wtTGlzdDogQWx1bWludW0gU3RydXQgZml0dGluZ3MKCi0tPiBQaWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlzdCBt ZXNzYWdlIHBvc3RlZCBieTogSmltIE1hcmtsZSA8amltX21hcmtsZUBtaW5kc3ByaW5nLmNvbT4K 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________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:57:27 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Strut fittings From: Ken Bickers Jim, I started off using a laser pointer when setting the dihedral. I found it hard to use, due to jiggling of the pointer at one end and the widening of the light by the time it got to the other end. After an hour or so of frustration, I went to the local sporting goods store and bought some high-test, non-stretch fishing line. Then I tied that to a stick that could be clamped at one of the wing and pulled very tight to a stick clamped to the end of the other wing. That made the whole thing easy, though I never did catch a fish. Cheers, Ken On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 6:45 AM, Jim Markle wrote: > Thanks Dan, I'll give that a try. > > helspersew@aol.com wrote: > Jim, > > If you are careful maybe you can get away with it. A laser level would be > very helpful. Then you could be sure of what you are doing. > > Dan Helsper > Puryear, TN > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Markle > To: pietenpol-list > Sent: Fri, Aug 17, 2012 10:36 am > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Strut fittings > > > Hey Dan, > > During your final assembly, did you actually have to make adjustments to all > 4 > forks? I'm wondering if you could be really careful with all the strut > lengths > and maybe only need to make adjustments to the rear struts? > > Am I thinking right or is adjustment on all 4 absolutely necessary? I would > like to avoid buying those $80 fittings if their not going to get much > use.... > > Your (or anyone's!) thoughts? > > JM > > > -----Original Message----- > From: helspersew@aol.com > Sent: Aug 17, 2012 9:19 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Strut fittings > > > Hi Greg, > > Thank you for the kind words. I have attached a pic of the fitting. This is > a > J-3 fork. If you can get a drawing of that fork you will be able to eye-ball > how > much thread engagement I have there. Yes I used the small struts from > Carlson. > This set-up is working well so far. If I can be of further service let me > know. > > Dan H > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Bacon > To: pietenpol-list > Sent: Fri, Aug 17, 2012 8:33 am > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Strut fittings > > > Dan, > > > Did you use the small struts from Carlson Aircraft? And, what did you > figure > for safe thread depth of the J3 forks? I couldn't find a minimum thread > depth > chart for steel bolts into aluminum. A typical rule of thumb for > steel-in-steel > is one thread diameter minimum to match the full strength of the bolt. I > would > assume steel-in-aluminum to be more than that since aluminum isn't quite as > strong as steel. Aluminum is also subject to fatigue over the long haul, so > overkill would be good here. > > > Saw your piet at Brodhead this year. Looks beautiful! > > > Thanks, > > -- > Greg Bacon > > > " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:05:29 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Strut fittings From: Jim Markle SG1tbW1tLCB0aGF0J3MgYSBuZWF0IGlkZWEhCgpUaGFua3MhS2VuIEJpY2tlcnMgPGJpY2tlcnMu a2VuQGdtYWlsLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6LS0+IFBpZXRlbnBvbC1MaXN0IG1lc3NhZ2UgcG9zdGVkIGJ5 OiBLZW4gQmlja2VycyA8Ymlja2Vycy5rZW5AZ21haWwuY29tPgoKSmltLCBJIHN0YXJ0ZWQgb2Zm IHVzaW5nIGEgbGFzZXIgcG9pbnRlciB3aGVuIHNldHRpbmcgdGhlIGRpaGVkcmFsLsKgIEkKZm91 bmQgaXQgaGFyZCB0byB1c2UsIGR1ZSB0byBqaWdnbGluZyBvZiB0aGUgcG9pbnRlciBhdCBvbmUg ZW5kIGFuZAp0aGUgd2lkZW5pbmcgb2YgdGhlIGxpZ2h0IGJ5IHRoZSB0aW1lIGl0IGdvdCB0byB0 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dmlhIHRoZSBXZWIgRm9ydW1zIQpfLT0KXy09wqDCoCAtLT4gaHR0cDovL2ZvcnVtcy5tYXRyb25p Y3MuY29tCl8tPQpfLT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQpfLT3CoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqAgLSBMaXN0IENvbnRy aWJ1dGlvbiBXZWIgU2l0ZSAtCl8tPcKgIFRoYW5rIHlvdSBmb3IgeW91ciBnZW5lcm91cyBzdXBw b3J0IQpfLT3CoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDC oMKgwqDCoMKgIC1NYXR0IERyYWxsZSwgTGlzdCBBZG1pbi4KXy09wqDCoCAtLT4gaHR0cDovL3d3 dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL2NvbnRyaWJ1dGlvbgpfLT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQoKCgo ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:25 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Son-in-law-to-be sits in Piet... film at 11:00... He's interested..that's a good sign.might be a keeper. Gary from Cool _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 9:02 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Son-in-law-to-be sits in Piet... film at 11:00... Just needs a scarf and a skull cap! He was trying to sit so that he'd go faster... I had to explain Low and Slow to him... ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:19:54 AM PST US From: "l.morlock" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Strut fittings Or use a "bunyip" aka water level. Buy a length of clear plastic tubing at the hardware store, fill it with water (almost), find a helper, hold it up to the wing, then observe the level of the water on each end of the tube to find level or whatever amount of dihedral you want. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Bickers" Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2012 8:57 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Strut fittings > > Jim, I started off using a laser pointer when setting the dihedral. I > found it hard to use, due to jiggling of the pointer at one end and > the widening of the light by the time it got to the other end. After > an hour or so of frustration, I went to the local sporting goods store > and bought some high-test, non-stretch fishing line. Then I tied that > to a stick that could be clamped at one of the wing and pulled very > tight to a stick clamped to the end of the other wing. That made the > whole thing easy, though I never did catch a fish. Cheers, Ken > > On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 6:45 AM, Jim Markle > wrote: >> Thanks Dan, I'll give that a try. >> >> helspersew@aol.com wrote: >> Jim, >> >> If you are careful maybe you can get away with it. A laser level would be >> very helpful. Then you could be sure of what you are doing. >> >> Dan Helsper >> Puryear, TN >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jim Markle >> To: pietenpol-list >> Sent: Fri, Aug 17, 2012 10:36 am >> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Strut fittings >> >> >> >> Hey Dan, >> >> During your final assembly, did you actually have to make adjustments to >> all >> 4 >> forks? I'm wondering if you could be really careful with all the strut >> lengths >> and maybe only need to make adjustments to the rear struts? >> >> Am I thinking right or is adjustment on all 4 absolutely necessary? I >> would >> like to avoid buying those $80 fittings if their not going to get much >> use.... >> >> Your (or anyone's!) thoughts? >> >> JM >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: helspersew@aol.com >> Sent: Aug 17, 2012 9:19 AM >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Strut fittings >> >> >> >> Hi Greg, >> >> Thank you for the kind words. I have attached a pic of the fitting. This >> is >> a >> J-3 fork. If you can get a drawing of that fork you will be able to >> eye-ball >> how >> much thread engagement I have there. Yes I used the small struts from >> Carlson. >> This set-up is working well so far. If I can be of further service let me >> know. >> >> Dan H >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Greg Bacon >> To: pietenpol-list >> Sent: Fri, Aug 17, 2012 8:33 am >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Strut fittings >> >> >> Dan, >> >> >> Did you use the small struts from Carlson Aircraft? And, what did you >> figure >> for safe thread depth of the J3 forks? I couldn't find a minimum thread >> depth >> chart for steel bolts into aluminum. A typical rule of thumb for >> steel-in-steel >> is one thread diameter minimum to match the full strength of the bolt. I >> would >> assume steel-in-aluminum to be more than that since aluminum isn't quite >> as >> strong as steel. Aluminum is also subject to fatigue over the long haul, >> so >> overkill would be good here. >> >> >> Saw your piet at Brodhead this year. Looks beautiful! >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> -- >> Greg Bacon >> >> >> >> >> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> >> >> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:24:22 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: big numbers From: "bender" Did a little painting today.. I've always liked the look of the wing registration numbers but wasn't sure if i'd put em on the piet... i decided why not.. Jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381172#381172 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:35:28 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: big numbers From: Jim Markle SSBzYXkgeW91IGRlY2lkZWQgcmlnaHQhIMKgTGV0J3Mgc2VlIHNvbWUgcGljdHVyZXMhYmVuZGVy IDxqZmFpdGhAc29sYWlydXNhdmlhdGlvbi5jb20+IHdyb3RlOi0tPiBQaWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlzdCBt ZXNzYWdlIHBvc3RlZCBieTogImJlbmRlciIgPGpmYWl0aEBzb2xhaXJ1c2F2aWF0aW9uLmNvbT4K CkRpZCBhIGxpdHRsZSBwYWludGluZyB0b2RheS4uCkkndmUgYWx3YXlzIGxpa2VkIHRoZSBsb29r IG9mIHRoZSB3aW5nIHJlZ2lzdHJhdGlvbiBudW1iZXJzIGJ1dCB3YXNuJ3Qgc3VyZSBpZiBpJ2Qg cHV0IGVtIG9uIHRoZSBwaWV0Li4uCmkgZGVjaWRlZCB3aHkgbm90Li4KCkplZmYKCgoKCgoKClJl YWQgdGhpcyB0b3BpYyBvbmxpbmUgaGVyZToKCmh0dHA6Ly9mb3J1bXMubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS92 aWV3dG9waWMucGhwP3A9MzgxMTcyIzM4MTE3MgoKCgoKCgoKXy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0KXy09wqDCoMKgwqDCoMKg wqDCoMKgIC0gVGhlIFBpZXRlbnBvbC1MaXN0IEVtYWlsIEZvcnVtIC0KXy09IFVzZSB0aGUgTWF0 cm9uaWNzIExpc3QgRmVhdHVyZXMgTmF2aWdhdG9yIHRvIGJyb3dzZQpfLT0gdGhlIG1hbnkgTGlz dCB1dGlsaXRpZXMgc3VjaCBhcyBMaXN0IFVuL1N1YnNjcmlwdGlvbiwKXy09IEFyY2hpdmUgU2Vh cmNoICYgRG93bmxvYWQsIDctRGF5IEJyb3dzZSwgQ2hhdCwgRkFRLApfLT0gUGhvdG9zaGFyZSwg YW5kIG11Y2ggbXVjaCBtb3JlOgpfLT0KXy09wqDCoCAtLT4gaHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3Mu Y29tL05hdmlnYXRvcj9QaWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlzdApfLT0KXy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0KXy09wqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDC oMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoCAtIE1BVFJPTklDUyBXRUIgRk9SVU1TIC0KXy09IFNhbWUgZ3JlYXQgY29u dGVudCBhbHNvIGF2YWlsYWJsZSB2aWEgdGhlIFdlYiBGb3J1bXMhCl8tPQpfLT3CoMKgIC0tPiBo dHRwOi8vZm9ydW1zLm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20KXy09Cl8tPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09Cl8tPcKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDC oMKgwqDCoCAtIExpc3QgQ29udHJpYnV0aW9uIFdlYiBTaXRlIC0KXy09wqAgVGhhbmsgeW91IGZv ciB5b3VyIGdlbmVyb3VzIHN1cHBvcnQhCl8tPcKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDC oMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqAgLU1hdHQgRHJhbGxlLCBMaXN0IEFkbWluLgpf LT3CoMKgIC0tPiBodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vY29udHJpYnV0aW9uCl8tPT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09CgoK Cg= ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:32:05 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: big numbers From: "Jack@textors.com" I like it, well done! NX1929T for mine... Do not archive Jack Textor Sent from my iPad On Aug 18, 2012, at 2:34 PM, Jim Markle wrote: > I say you decided right! Let's see some pictures! > bender wrote: > > Did a little painting today.. > I've always liked the look of the wing registration numbers but wasn't sure if i'd put em on the piet... > i decided why not.. > > Jeff > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381172#381172 > > > > > > > > > > > ky"Z+M4Gq(wrzKDKj',.+-5h,z^.+- Tn+bp+ry'C { ,x(ZP>-Zvkkj+ykym-&j',r5hRm-&j',r5hR08IaT1$+y\{^j)ZnWayg+k&j',r+k&j',rh*'gJ+^N*.~zw,hjY^.+-kym-&j',rr&*'i0fr((nb{nrf ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:23:58 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: BFR's......first flights? From: helspersew@aol.com Gary and Douwe- Waiting..............to hear how those BFR's are coming and ultimately..... ...first flights? Dan Helsper Puryear, TN ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:30:52 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: BFR's......first flights? From: gboothe5@comcast.net Q29udGFjdGVkIGFuIGluc3RydWN0b3IuLi53YWl0aW5nIHRvIGhlYXIgYmFjay4NClNlbnQgb24g dGhlIFNwcmludK4gTm93IE5ldHdvcmsgZnJvbSBteSBCbGFja0JlcnJ5rg0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdp bmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogaGVsc3BlcnNld0Bhb2wuY29tDQpTZW5kZXI6IG93bmVy LXBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0LXNlcnZlckBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tDQpEYXRlOiBTYXQsIDE4IEF1ZyAy MDEyIDE5OjIzOjM0IA0KVG86IDxwaWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tPg0KUmVwbHkt VG86IHBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb21TdWJqZWN0OiBQaWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlzdDog QkZSJ3MuLi4uLi5maXJzdCBmbGlnaHRzPw0KDQoNCkdhcnkgYW5kIERvdXdlLQ0KDQpXYWl0aW5n Li4uLi4uLi4uLi4uLi50byBoZWFyIGhvdyB0aG9zZSBCRlIncyBhcmUgY29taW5nIGFuZCB1bHRp bWF0ZWx5Li4uLi4uLi5maXJzdCBmbGlnaHRzPw0KDQpEYW4gSGVsc3Blcg0KUHVyeWVhciwgVE4N Cg0K ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:53:54 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Scout out a Scout From: "curtdm(at)gmail.com" Tom, Thanks for offering to help out. I think I've got it covered for right now. If it falls thru, I might have to give you a call. The next time I'm visiting my parents in Albany, I'll have to make a trip up to Alex to see your progress. -------- Curt Merdan Flower Mound, TX Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381205#381205 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:59:15 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: BFR's......first flights? From: "Mark Roberts" More than just Dan waiting and watching... How's a guy suppose to fan the flame of hope and optimism if you guys don't post your flight successes :D Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381211#381211 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:01:51 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: big numbers From: "Mark Roberts" Ooooowwww! Veeerrry nice! And the wing numbers look great too! But that shop floor, and the size! Where was that taken Jeff? Kidding aside, those numbers look very clean. How'd you do them? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381212#381212 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:23:36 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Control sticks in position... From: "Mark Roberts" Hi Jake! I am very interested in your brake set up. Do you have other pictures of the pedals and cylinders? Where'd you get those toe brake pedals? :D Very nice. I am planning my brake assembly now, and am trying to determine who's design I want to steal...er... Imitate :) Thanks! Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381213#381213 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:33:00 PM PST US From: jorge lizarraga Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: big numbers hello marl I hope your stared wellding these is fun and bery relaxed finish ed my 10 rib in 18 day I know Im backwars but one those day fly my firs mis sion, seyou nex jorge from hanford=0A=0A=0AFrom: Mark Roberts =0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Saturday, August 18, 2012 10:01 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: big numbers=0A=0A--> Pietenpo l-List message posted by: "Mark Roberts" =0A=0AOoooo wwww! Veeerrry nice! And the wing numbers look great too! But that shop flo or, and the size! Where was that taken Jeff? =0A=0AKidding aside, those num bers look very clean. How'd you do them?=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic onli ne here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381212#381212 ======================= ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.