Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:30 AM - Re: Re: Aluminum Strut fittings (Jack)
2. 04:01 AM - Re: Re: Slow speed rush to 1st flight (Gene Rambo)
3. 04:02 AM - Re: Re: Aluminum Strut fittings (helspersew@aol.com)
4. 04:25 AM - Re: Is anyone going to MERFI (Matthew)
5. 05:41 AM - bunyips, bubbles and gravity.... Re: Aluminum Strut fittings (Jim Markle)
6. 06:00 AM - Re: Re: Slow speed rush to 1st flight (Michael Perez)
7. 06:19 AM - Re: Re: Aluminum Strut fittings (l.morlock)
8. 06:21 AM - Re: Aluminum Strut fittings (l.morlock)
9. 06:28 AM - Re: bunyips, bubbles and gravity.... Re: Aluminum Strut fittings (Michael Perez)
10. 06:29 AM - Re: Re: Aluminum Strut fittings (Greg Bacon)
11. 06:36 AM - Re: Aluminum Strut fittings (Jim Markle)
12. 06:41 AM - Re: Aluminum Strut fittings (gboothe5@comcast.net)
13. 06:42 AM - Re: Aluminum Strut fittings (l.morlock)
14. 06:45 AM - Re: Re: Aluminum Strut fittings (l.morlock)
15. 07:52 AM - Rigging references. (tools)
16. 07:55 AM - Re: Re: Aluminum Strut fittings (Ken Bickers)
17. 08:05 AM - Re: Slow speed rush to 1st flight (V Groah)
18. 08:09 AM - Re: Re: Aluminum Strut fittings (Greg Bacon)
19. 08:17 AM - Re: Aluminum Strut fittings (Billy McCaskill)
20. 08:36 AM - Re: Re: Aluminum Strut fittings (Ken Bickers)
21. 09:42 AM - Re: Aluminum Strut fittings (taildrags)
22. 10:16 AM - Re: Slow speed rush to 1st flight (Mark Roberts)
23. 10:18 AM - Re: bunyips, bubbles and gravity.... Re: Aluminum Strut fittings (C N Campbell)
24. 10:36 AM - Re: bunyips, bubbles and gravity.... Re: Aluminum Strut fittings (Jim Markle)
25. 10:42 AM - Re: Re: Slow speed rush to 1st flight (gboothe5@comcast.net)
26. 04:47 PM - Re: Control sticks in position... (aerocarjake)
27. 05:27 PM - Re: Control sticks in position... (Mark Roberts)
28. 05:37 PM - Re: Re: Aluminum Strut fittings (Jack)
29. 05:47 PM - Re: Rigging references. (airlion)
30. 05:51 PM - bunyips, bubbles and gravity.... Re: Aluminum Strut fittings (IT Girl)
31. 06:20 PM - Re: Rigging references. (tools)
32. 06:51 PM - 4130 vs 1025 steel (or 1010) (Mark Roberts)
33. 08:33 PM - Re: Blakesburg (ldmill)
34. 10:22 PM - bunyips, bubbles and gravity.... Re: Aluminum Strut fitting (Mark Roberts)
35. 10:31 PM - Re: Rigging references. (Mark Roberts)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Strut fittings |
Ken, Billy and others please further explain the string and stick method.
I'm having trouble visualizing.
Thanks!
Jack Textor
DSM
NX1929T
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Billy
McCaskill
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 11:09 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Strut fittings
A bunyip will only be useful for setting dihedral if your shop/hangar floor
is dead-flat and level. If the floor has even a slight pitch or slant to
it, you could end up with some weird rigging issues. Your fuselage could be
sitting at the same angle as the floor, but your wingtips will be level with
each other. The stretched string is probably better suited for this job.
--------
Billy McCaskill
Baker, LA
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381312#381312
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Slow speed rush to 1st flight |
Don't do any high speed taxis!!!!!!!
On Aug 19, 2012, at 7:16 PM, "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Sorry, Dan...couldn't resist...
>
> The last static test done, with the Dan Helsper Industrial Fish Scales,
> showed a pull of 300#'s. Haven't done any high speed yet taxi's yet...
>
> Gary Boothe
> NX308MB
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
> Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 4:02 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Slow speed rush to 1st flight
>
> --> <gboothe5@comcast.net>
>
> Forward.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dwilson
> Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 3:26 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Slow speed rush to 1st flight
>
>
> Gary, How is the prop pulling?
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381280#381280
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Strut fittings |
A few years ago I was fortunate to be able to afford one of those fancy rot
ating laser levels. It even has a hand-held receiver (arrows and beeper) so
that it can be used in bright sun. I have used this thing innumerable time
s on many different projects, including of course the Piet rigging. It real
ly made it a no-brainer.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack <jack@textors.com>
Sent: Mon, Aug 20, 2012 5:30 am
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Strut fittings
Ken, Billy and others please further explain the string and stick method.
I'm having trouble visualizing.
Thanks!
Jack Textor
DSM
NX1929T
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Billy
McCaskill
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 11:09 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Strut fittings
A bunyip will only be useful for setting dihedral if your shop/hangar floor
is dead-flat and level. If the floor has even a slight pitch or slant to
it, you could end up with some weird rigging issues. Your fuselage could b
e
sitting at the same angle as the floor, but your wingtips will be level wit
h
each other. The stretched string is probably better suited for this job.
--------
Billy McCaskill
Baker, LA
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381312#381312
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Is anyone going to MERFI |
Wish I could make it, but I don't think it would be a good choice to skip my
wedding for it, might inhibit later outings!! However, if anyone want to d
o a flyover at WACO airport in Troy between 1530 and 1700, that would be pre
tty cool :)
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 20, 2012, at 2:42 AM, shad bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Is anyone planning on flying their Piet to MERFI next saturday? The MERFI
fly-in is at Urbana Grimes Airport in Urbana Ohio on Aug 25, 26. I plan on
flying over on Saturday mid to late morning with my neighbors, a Cessna 140
, a Space Walker2, and a Stits Playmate. If any of you Ohio Pieter's want t
o join us (Mike Cuy, Don Emch) We will be leaving Chapman Memorial on Saturd
ay about 10-11 am. Hope to see some of you there.
>
> Shad
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: bunyips, bubbles and gravity.... Re: Aluminum Strut fittings |
Egad, I never even thought about that....
Ok, so the way I do it is: I first put the fuse up on saw horses and level it using
whatever method....
Then I level everything else using the same method, bunyip, laser or whatever.
I also have a digital level but it just doesn't seem to get as accurate as a
bubble, laser or bunyip.
Am I missing something or wouldn't that do the trick?
I hope this is ok since I'm gonna do the tail feathers/cables shortly.
And I haven't had my first cup of coffee so maybe I'm missing something....
JM
-----Original Message-----
>From: Billy McCaskill <billmz@cox.net>
>Sent: Aug 19, 2012 11:09 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Strut fittings
>
>
>A bunyip will only be useful for setting dihedral if your shop/hangar floor is
dead-flat and level. If the floor has even a slight pitch or slant to it, you
could end up with some weird rigging issues. Your fuselage could be sitting
at the same angle as the floor, but your wingtips will be level with each other.
The stretched string is probably better suited for this job.
>
>--------
>Billy McCaskill
>Baker, LA
>tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381312#381312
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Slow speed rush to 1st flight |
I too appreciate the fact the others on this list take the time to update u
s on their current build or taxi, testing/flight status. Reading the posts
on "First engine run", or "Cut my first metal piece today", "Taxi tests goi
ng fine" etc. all keep me focused and motivated.-
-
Steady as she goes.
Michael Perez
Pietenpol HINT Videos
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Strut fittings |
Yes, you do have to level the fuselage first, forgot to mention that.
Wouldn't you also have to level the fuselage with the stretched string
method?
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Billy McCaskill" <billmz@cox.net>
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 12:09 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Strut fittings
>
> A bunyip will only be useful for setting dihedral if your shop/hangar
> floor is dead-flat and level. If the floor has even a slight pitch or
> slant to it, you could end up with some weird rigging issues. Your
> fuselage could be sitting at the same angle as the floor, but your
> wingtips will be level with each other. The stretched string is probably
> better suited for this job.
>
> --------
> Billy McCaskill
> Baker, LA
> tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381312#381312
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Strut fittings |
Hi, Jim. How do you set up your bunyip with a 5 gal bucket? I'd love to
find a way to make it a one person process.
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 11:23 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Strut fittings
> <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
>
> Thanks Larry and all.....
>
> Actually, I have a laser and a bunyip, built it with a 5 gal bucket so it
> can be a one person process...and I prefer the bunyip!
>
> do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: "l.morlock" <l.morlock@att.net>
>>Sent: Aug 18, 2012 8:19 AM
>>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Strut fittings
>>
>>
>>Or use a "bunyip" aka water level. Buy a length of clear plastic tubing
>>at
>>the hardware store, fill it with water (almost), find a helper, hold it up
>>to the wing, then observe the level of the water on each end of the tube
>>to
>>find level or whatever amount of dihedral you want.
>>
>> Larry
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Ken Bickers" <bickers.ken@gmail.com>
>>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>>Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2012 8:57 AM
>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Strut fittings
>>
>>
>>> <bickers.ken@gmail.com>
>>>
>>> Jim, I started off using a laser pointer when setting the dihedral. I
>>> found it hard to use, due to jiggling of the pointer at one end and
>>> the widening of the light by the time it got to the other end. After
>>> an hour or so of frustration, I went to the local sporting goods store
>>> and bought some high-test, non-stretch fishing line. Then I tied that
>>> to a stick that could be clamped at one of the wing and pulled very
>>> tight to a stick clamped to the end of the other wing. That made the
>>> whole thing easy, though I never did catch a fish. Cheers, Ken
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 6:45 AM, Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Thanks Dan, I'll give that a try.
>>>>
>>>> helspersew@aol.com wrote:
>>>> Jim,
>>>>
>>>> If you are careful maybe you can get away with it. A laser level would
>>>> be
>>>> very helpful. Then you could be sure of what you are doing.
>>>>
>>>> Dan Helsper
>>>> Puryear, TN
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
>>>> To: pietenpol-list <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>>>> Sent: Fri, Aug 17, 2012 10:36 am
>>>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Strut fittings
>>>>
>>>> <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
>>>>
>>>> Hey Dan,
>>>>
>>>> During your final assembly, did you actually have to make adjustments
>>>> to
>>>> all
>>>> 4
>>>> forks? I'm wondering if you could be really careful with all the strut
>>>> lengths
>>>> and maybe only need to make adjustments to the rear struts?
>>>>
>>>> Am I thinking right or is adjustment on all 4 absolutely necessary? I
>>>> would
>>>> like to avoid buying those $80 fittings if their not going to get much
>>>> use....
>>>>
>>>> Your (or anyone's!) thoughts?
>>>>
>>>> JM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: helspersew@aol.com
>>>> Sent: Aug 17, 2012 9:19 AM
>>>> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Strut fittings
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Greg,
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for the kind words. I have attached a pic of the fitting.
>>>> This
>>>> is
>>>> a
>>>> J-3 fork. If you can get a drawing of that fork you will be able to
>>>> eye-ball
>>>> how
>>>> much thread engagement I have there. Yes I used the small struts from
>>>> Carlson.
>>>> This set-up is working well so far. If I can be of further service let
>>>> me
>>>> know.
>>>>
>>>> Dan H
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Greg Bacon <gbacon67@gmail.com>
>>>> To: pietenpol-list <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>>>> Sent: Fri, Aug 17, 2012 8:33 am
>>>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Strut fittings
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dan,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Did you use the small struts from Carlson Aircraft? And, what did you
>>>> figure
>>>> for safe thread depth of the J3 forks? I couldn't find a minimum
>>>> thread
>>>> depth
>>>> chart for steel bolts into aluminum. A typical rule of thumb for
>>>> steel-in-steel
>>>> is one thread diameter minimum to match the full strength of the bolt.
>>>> I
>>>> would
>>>> assume steel-in-aluminum to be more than that since aluminum isn't
>>>> quite
>>>> as
>>>> strong as steel. Aluminum is also subject to fatigue over the long
>>>> haul,
>>>> so
>>>> overkill would be good here.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Saw your piet at Brodhead this year. Looks beautiful!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Greg Bacon
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>>>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>>>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: bunyips, bubbles and gravity.... Re: Aluminum Strut |
fittings
If I may,
-
When I temporarily had my plane is the garage to fit the wings, I did this:
-
1) Level fuselage, front to back AND side to side.
2) Everything else gets referenced to the fuselage!
3) Set C.S vertical to fuse. (90 deg. side to side)-Make sure C.S. is per
pendicular to fuselage, side to side. When looking at the plane head on, th
e C.S. should not be angled out one side or the other.
4) Square the C.S. When looking down at the C.S. from above, it should be i
n line with the fuselage, it should not be "twisted".
5) Attach wings.
6) Use a single reference point on the FUSELAGE. Like a hinge at the tail p
ost. (again, everything is referenced-from-the fuse.-once set. (see 1
above.)-Measure the distance from there to each wing trailing edge corne
r. The two measurements should match.
7) On a side note, using a point near the cockpits, or nose of the plane, y
ou can set up the horizontal stab. the same way.
8) Run string on top of the wing from tip to tip. I ran mine along the fron
t spar. (wing was not covered.)- Set dihedral...or not.
9) Run string along rear spar same as 8 above and set washout...or not.
-
Referencing everything to the fuselage helps avoid irregularities-from th
e ground, non-square walls, non-flat ceilings, etc.- The plane only cares
how its parts relate to itself, not to the floor of your shop!
Michael Perez
Pietenpol HINT Videos
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Strut fittings |
Larry,
Can you describe your string method? I'm assuming you stretch from end rib
to end rib inbetween the front and rear spars. Do you set the dihedral by
making sure the distances from the string to the wing are the same at all
respective locations (E.g. - 3/16 inch at number 6 ribs, 3/4 inch at but
ribs)? Seems simple enough.
By the way, "Spider Wire" is a fishing string brand that would work well
for this. It has almost no stretch.
Thanks,
Greg Bacon
On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 8:19 AM, l.morlock <l.morlock@att.net> wrote:
>
> Yes, you do have to level the fuselage first, forgot to mention that.
> Wouldn't you also have to level the fuselage with the stretched string
> method?
>
> Larry
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Billy McCaskill" <billmz@cox.net>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 12:09 AM
>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Strut fittings
>
>
>>
>> A bunyip will only be useful for setting dihedral if your shop/hangar
>> floor is dead-flat and level. If the floor has even a slight pitch or
>> slant to it, you could end up with some weird rigging issues. Your
>> fuselage could be sitting at the same angle as the floor, but your wingtips
>> will be level with each other. The stretched string is probably better
>> suited for this job.
>>
>> --------
>> Billy McCaskill
>> Baker, LA
>> tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/**viewtopic.php?p=381312#381312<http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381312#381312>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Greg Bacon
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Strut fittings |
Ok Larry, I'll try.....
Just run a tube out of the bottom of a full bucket of water. Set the bucket on
a saw horse or whatever. Then you can walk the tubing around to the areas you
want to level up....You'll have to use a yard stick to measure from the water
level in the tube since it will always be a constant level. There won't be
anyone on the other end moving the tubing/water level up and down.
Or you could raise the bucket (on a saw horse or whatever) to the correct level
then just take the tubing/water level around to the different points.
I just carry a yardstick and use the water level as the constant...
Hope that makes sense. If not, let me know and I'll try again.
-----Original Message-----
>From: "l.morlock" <l.morlock@att.net>
>Sent: Aug 20, 2012 8:21 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Strut fittings
>
>
>Hi, Jim. How do you set up your bunyip with a 5 gal bucket? I'd love to
>find a way to make it a one person process.
>
> Larry
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 11:23 PM
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Strut fittings
>
>
>> <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
>>
>> Thanks Larry and all.....
>>
>> Actually, I have a laser and a bunyip, built it with a 5 gal bucket so it
>> can be a one person process...and I prefer the bunyip!
>>
>> do not archive
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>>From: "l.morlock" <l.morlock@att.net>
>>>Sent: Aug 18, 2012 8:19 AM
>>>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Strut fittings
>>>
>>>
>>>Or use a "bunyip" aka water level. Buy a length of clear plastic tubing
>>>at
>>>the hardware store, fill it with water (almost), find a helper, hold it up
>>>to the wing, then observe the level of the water on each end of the tube
>>>to
>>>find level or whatever amount of dihedral you want.
>>>
>>> Larry
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Ken Bickers" <bickers.ken@gmail.com>
>>>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>>>Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2012 8:57 AM
>>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Strut fittings
>>>
>>>
>>>> <bickers.ken@gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>> Jim, I started off using a laser pointer when setting the dihedral. I
>>>> found it hard to use, due to jiggling of the pointer at one end and
>>>> the widening of the light by the time it got to the other end. After
>>>> an hour or so of frustration, I went to the local sporting goods store
>>>> and bought some high-test, non-stretch fishing line. Then I tied that
>>>> to a stick that could be clamped at one of the wing and pulled very
>>>> tight to a stick clamped to the end of the other wing. That made the
>>>> whole thing easy, though I never did catch a fish. Cheers, Ken
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 6:45 AM, Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Thanks Dan, I'll give that a try.
>>>>>
>>>>> helspersew@aol.com wrote:
>>>>> Jim,
>>>>>
>>>>> If you are careful maybe you can get away with it. A laser level would
>>>>> be
>>>>> very helpful. Then you could be sure of what you are doing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dan Helsper
>>>>> Puryear, TN
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
>>>>> To: pietenpol-list <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>>>>> Sent: Fri, Aug 17, 2012 10:36 am
>>>>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Strut fittings
>>>>>
>>>>> <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey Dan,
>>>>>
>>>>> During your final assembly, did you actually have to make adjustments
>>>>> to
>>>>> all
>>>>> 4
>>>>> forks? I'm wondering if you could be really careful with all the strut
>>>>> lengths
>>>>> and maybe only need to make adjustments to the rear struts?
>>>>>
>>>>> Am I thinking right or is adjustment on all 4 absolutely necessary? I
>>>>> would
>>>>> like to avoid buying those $80 fittings if their not going to get much
>>>>> use....
>>>>>
>>>>> Your (or anyone's!) thoughts?
>>>>>
>>>>> JM
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: helspersew@aol.com
>>>>> Sent: Aug 17, 2012 9:19 AM
>>>>> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Strut fittings
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Greg,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for the kind words. I have attached a pic of the fitting.
>>>>> This
>>>>> is
>>>>> a
>>>>> J-3 fork. If you can get a drawing of that fork you will be able to
>>>>> eye-ball
>>>>> how
>>>>> much thread engagement I have there. Yes I used the small struts from
>>>>> Carlson.
>>>>> This set-up is working well so far. If I can be of further service let
>>>>> me
>>>>> know.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dan H
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Greg Bacon <gbacon67@gmail.com>
>>>>> To: pietenpol-list <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>>>>> Sent: Fri, Aug 17, 2012 8:33 am
>>>>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Strut fittings
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dan,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Did you use the small struts from Carlson Aircraft? And, what did you
>>>>> figure
>>>>> for safe thread depth of the J3 forks? I couldn't find a minimum
>>>>> thread
>>>>> depth
>>>>> chart for steel bolts into aluminum. A typical rule of thumb for
>>>>> steel-in-steel
>>>>> is one thread diameter minimum to match the full strength of the bolt.
>>>>> I
>>>>> would
>>>>> assume steel-in-aluminum to be more than that since aluminum isn't
>>>>> quite
>>>>> as
>>>>> strong as steel. Aluminum is also subject to fatigue over the long
>>>>> haul,
>>>>> so
>>>>> overkill would be good here.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Saw your piet at Brodhead this year. Looks beautiful!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Greg Bacon
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>>>>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>>>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>>>>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>>>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Strut fittings |
That's how I set foundations (in the days before lasers). Make sure all the bubbles
are siphoned out of the tubing.
Gary
Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
Ok Larry, I'll try.....
Just run a tube out of the bottom of a full bucket of water. Set the bucket on
a saw horse or whatever. Then you can walk the tubing around to the areas you
want to level up....You'll have to use a yard stick to measure from the water
level in the tube since it will always be a constant level. There won't be
anyone on the other end moving the tubing/water level up and down.
Or you could raise the bucket (on a saw horse or whatever) to the correct level
then just take the tubing/water level around to the different points.
I just carry a yardstick and use the water level as the constant...
Hope that makes sense. If not, let me know and I'll try again.
-----Original Message-----
>From: "l.morlock" <l.morlock@att.net>
>Sent: Aug 20, 2012 8:21 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Strut fittings
>
>
>Hi, Jim. How do you set up your bunyip with a 5 gal bucket? I'd love to
>find a way to make it a one person process.
>
> Larry
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 11:23 PM
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Strut fittings
>
>
>> <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
>>
>> Thanks Larry and all.....
>>
>> Actually, I have a laser and a bunyip, built it with a 5 gal bucket so it
>> can be a one person process...and I prefer the bunyip!
>>
>> do not archive
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>>From: "l.morlock" <l.morlock@att.net>
>>>Sent: Aug 18, 2012 8:19 AM
>>>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Strut fittings
>>>
>>>
>>>Or use a "bunyip" aka water level. Buy a length of clear plastic tubing
>>>at
>>>the hardware store, fill it with water (almost), find a helper, hold it up
>>>to the wing, then observe the level of the water on each end of the tube
>>>to
>>>find level or whatever amount of dihedral you want.
>>>
>>> Larry
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Ken Bickers" <bickers.ken@gmail.com>
>>>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>>>Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2012 8:57 AM
>>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Strut fittings
>>>
>>>
>>>> <bickers.ken@gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>> Jim, I started off using a laser pointer when setting the dihedral. I
>>>> found it hard to use, due to jiggling of the pointer at one end and
>>>> the widening of the light by the time it got to the other end. After
>>>> an hour or so of frustration, I went to the local sporting goods store
>>>> and bought some high-test, non-stretch fishing line. Then I tied that
>>>> to a stick that could be clamped at one of the wing and pulled very
>>>> tight to a stick clamped to the end of the other wing. That made the
>>>> whole thing easy, though I never did catch a fish. Cheers, Ken
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 6:45 AM, Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Thanks Dan, I'll give that a try.
>>>>>
>>>>> helspersew@aol.com wrote:
>>>>> Jim,
>>>>>
>>>>> If you are careful maybe you can get away with it. A laser level would
>>>>> be
>>>>> very helpful. Then you could be sure of what you are doing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dan Helsper
>>>>> Puryear, TN
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
>>>>> To: pietenpol-list <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>>>>> Sent: Fri, Aug 17, 2012 10:36 am
>>>>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Strut fittings
>>>>>
>>>>> <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey Dan,
>>>>>
>>>>> During your final assembly, did you actually have to make adjustments
>>>>> to
>>>>> all
>>>>> 4
>>>>> forks? I'm wondering if you could be really careful with all the strut
>>>>> lengths
>>>>> and maybe only need to make adjustments to the rear struts?
>>>>>
>>>>> Am I thinking right or is adjustment on all 4 absolutely necessary? I
>>>>> would
>>>>> like to avoid buying those $80 fittings if their not going to get much
>>>>> use....
>>>>>
>>>>> Your (or anyone's!) thoughts?
>>>>>
>>>>> JM
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: helspersew@aol.com
>>>>> Sent: Aug 17, 2012 9:19 AM
>>>>> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Strut fittings
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Greg,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for the kind words. I have attached a pic of the fitting.
>>>>> This
>>>>> is
>>>>> a
>>>>> J-3 fork. If you can get a drawing of that fork you will be able to
>>>>> eye-ball
>>>>> how
>>>>> much thread engagement I have there. Yes I used the small struts from
>>>>> Carlson.
>>>>> This set-up is working well so far. If I can be of further service let
>>>>> me
>>>>> know.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dan H
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Greg Bacon <gbacon67@gmail.com>
>>>>> To: pietenpol-list <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>>>>> Sent: Fri, Aug 17, 2012 8:33 am
>>>>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Strut fittings
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dan,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Did you use the small struts from Carlson Aircraft? And, what did you
>>>>> figure
>>>>> for safe thread depth of the J3 forks? I couldn't find a minimum
>>>>> thread
>>>>> depth
>>>>> chart for steel bolts into aluminum. A typical rule of thumb for
>>>>> steel-in-steel
>>>>> is one thread diameter minimum to match the full strength of the bolt.
>>>>> I
>>>>> would
>>>>> assume steel-in-aluminum to be more than that since aluminum isn't
>>>>> quite
>>>>> as
>>>>> strong as steel. Aluminum is also subject to fatigue over the long
>>>>> haul,
>>>>> so
>>>>> overkill would be good here.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Saw your piet at Brodhead this year. Looks beautiful!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Greg Bacon
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>>>>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>>>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>>>>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>>>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Strut fittings |
OK, Jim, I got it. Thanks. Sounds like a good one-man method.
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 9:34 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Strut fittings
> <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
>
> Ok Larry, I'll try.....
>
> Just run a tube out of the bottom of a full bucket of water. Set the
> bucket on a saw horse or whatever. Then you can walk the tubing around to
> the areas you want to level up....You'll have to use a yard stick to
> measure from the water level in the tube since it will always be a
> constant level. There won't be anyone on the other end moving the
> tubing/water level up and down.
>
> Or you could raise the bucket (on a saw horse or whatever) to the correct
> level then just take the tubing/water level around to the different
> points.
>
> I just carry a yardstick and use the water level as the constant...
>
> Hope that makes sense. If not, let me know and I'll try again.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: "l.morlock" <l.morlock@att.net>
>>Sent: Aug 20, 2012 8:21 AM
>>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Strut fittings
>>
>>
>>Hi, Jim. How do you set up your bunyip with a 5 gal bucket? I'd love to
>>find a way to make it a one person process.
>>
>> Larry
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
>>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>>Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 11:23 PM
>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Strut fittings
>>
>>
>>> <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
>>>
>>> Thanks Larry and all.....
>>>
>>> Actually, I have a laser and a bunyip, built it with a 5 gal bucket so
>>> it
>>> can be a one person process...and I prefer the bunyip!
>>>
>>> do not archive
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>From: "l.morlock" <l.morlock@att.net>
>>>>Sent: Aug 18, 2012 8:19 AM
>>>>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Strut fittings
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Or use a "bunyip" aka water level. Buy a length of clear plastic tubing
>>>>at
>>>>the hardware store, fill it with water (almost), find a helper, hold it
>>>>up
>>>>to the wing, then observe the level of the water on each end of the tube
>>>>to
>>>>find level or whatever amount of dihedral you want.
>>>>
>>>> Larry
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "Ken Bickers" <bickers.ken@gmail.com>
>>>>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>>>>Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2012 8:57 AM
>>>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Strut fittings
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> <bickers.ken@gmail.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim, I started off using a laser pointer when setting the dihedral. I
>>>>> found it hard to use, due to jiggling of the pointer at one end and
>>>>> the widening of the light by the time it got to the other end. After
>>>>> an hour or so of frustration, I went to the local sporting goods store
>>>>> and bought some high-test, non-stretch fishing line. Then I tied that
>>>>> to a stick that could be clamped at one of the wing and pulled very
>>>>> tight to a stick clamped to the end of the other wing. That made the
>>>>> whole thing easy, though I never did catch a fish. Cheers, Ken
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 6:45 AM, Jim Markle
>>>>> <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Thanks Dan, I'll give that a try.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> helspersew@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>> Jim,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you are careful maybe you can get away with it. A laser level
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> very helpful. Then you could be sure of what you are doing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dan Helsper
>>>>>> Puryear, TN
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
>>>>>> To: pietenpol-list <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Fri, Aug 17, 2012 10:36 am
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Strut fittings
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey Dan,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> During your final assembly, did you actually have to make adjustments
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> all
>>>>>> 4
>>>>>> forks? I'm wondering if you could be really careful with all the
>>>>>> strut
>>>>>> lengths
>>>>>> and maybe only need to make adjustments to the rear struts?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am I thinking right or is adjustment on all 4 absolutely necessary?
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> like to avoid buying those $80 fittings if their not going to get
>>>>>> much
>>>>>> use....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your (or anyone's!) thoughts?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> JM
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: helspersew@aol.com
>>>>>> Sent: Aug 17, 2012 9:19 AM
>>>>>> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Strut fittings
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Greg,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you for the kind words. I have attached a pic of the fitting.
>>>>>> This
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> J-3 fork. If you can get a drawing of that fork you will be able to
>>>>>> eye-ball
>>>>>> how
>>>>>> much thread engagement I have there. Yes I used the small struts from
>>>>>> Carlson.
>>>>>> This set-up is working well so far. If I can be of further service
>>>>>> let
>>>>>> me
>>>>>> know.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dan H
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Greg Bacon <gbacon67@gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: pietenpol-list <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Fri, Aug 17, 2012 8:33 am
>>>>>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Strut fittings
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dan,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Did you use the small struts from Carlson Aircraft? And, what did
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> figure
>>>>>> for safe thread depth of the J3 forks? I couldn't find a minimum
>>>>>> thread
>>>>>> depth
>>>>>> chart for steel bolts into aluminum. A typical rule of thumb for
>>>>>> steel-in-steel
>>>>>> is one thread diameter minimum to match the full strength of the
>>>>>> bolt.
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> assume steel-in-aluminum to be more than that since aluminum isn't
>>>>>> quite
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> strong as steel. Aluminum is also subject to fatigue over the long
>>>>>> haul,
>>>>>> so
>>>>>> overkill would be good here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Saw your piet at Brodhead this year. Looks beautiful!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Greg Bacon
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>>>>>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>>>>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>>>>>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>>>>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Strut fittings |
I've never used the string method, only a bunyip. Maybe Billy McCaskill
can explain the string method further?
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Bacon
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 9:29 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Strut fittings
Larry,
Can you describe your string method? I'm assuming you stretch from
end rib to end rib inbetween the front and rear spars. Do you set the
dihedral by making sure the distances from the string to the wing are
the same at all respective locations (E.g. - 3/16 inch at number 6 ribs,
3/4 inch at but ribs)? Seems simple enough.
By the way, "Spider Wire" is a fishing string brand that would work
well for this. It has almost no stretch.
Thanks,
Greg Bacon
On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 8:19 AM, l.morlock <l.morlock@att.net> wrote:
<l.morlock@att.net>
Yes, you do have to level the fuselage first, forgot to mention
that. Wouldn't you also have to level the fuselage with the stretched
string method?
Larry
----- Original Message ----- From: "Billy McCaskill"
<billmz@cox.net>
To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 12:09 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Strut fittings
<billmz@cox.net>
A bunyip will only be useful for setting dihedral if your
shop/hangar floor is dead-flat and level. If the floor has even a
slight pitch or slant to it, you could end up with some weird rigging
issues. Your fuselage could be sitting at the same angle as the floor,
but your wingtips will be level with each other. The stretched string
is probably better suited for this job.
--------
Billy McCaskill
Baker, LA
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381312#381312
st"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Greg Bacon
Message 15
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| Subject: | Rigging references. |
I do a lot of machine tool rebuilding which is completely analogous to rigging
a wing. I've noticed a couple of things which weren't completely explained.
First, using a string to establish dihedral, or make sure there isn't any. It's
alright to stretch a string between the wingtips and make sure it's 1 1/2" above
the center section to establish dihedral, but you ALSO have to make sure
that string is level, to make sure EACH SIDE has the same dihedral.
Making sure a string is level isn't an easy thing with a level. Even a 4' level
isn't that long compared to 29', and holding it is another matter. Lastly,
the quality of the typical 4' level isn't that great. Small errors transposed
over 29' quickly add up. The laser level or water level will work better. Easily
as accurate, is to forget about level, and only worry about relative dimensions.
Stretch a string near the floor under the front spar and get it as close to level
as you can by eye for convenience. Put another under the middle of the fuse,
front to back, perpendicular to the first. Make sure it's perpendicular by
using a 3x4x5 pythagorean triplet. That is measure along one line 3', the other
4' and make sure those two poings (which form the hypotenuse of a right triangle)
are exactly 5' apart (diagonally). If they are, you have a REALLY accurate
right angle. Adjust one string as necessary to make that happen.
Prop up the plane's tail to get the top longeron of the fuse parallel to the front
to back string. If your fuse isn't covered, set a straight board across,
hang a string down in the middle of it and make sure the middle is lined up and
the distance from that board to the string is the same, all along the centerline
of the fuse.
Now make sure your fuselage is perpendicular to spar string in the x axis the same
way as described as making sure the wing is perpendicular to the fuse as looked
at from above.
Now make sure the fuse is perpendicular to the spar string in the y axis. Clamp
a nice straight board to the side of the fuse down to the string. Make sure
it makes a right angle. Measure up along that board 4', measure out along the
string 3' and then make sure the hypotenuse is 5'.
Now just measure up from the spar string to points on the wing, using a plumb bob,
to establish dihedral and make sure the wing is on straight (or the front
spar is).
Now, put another string parallel to the front spar string, under the rear spar.
Make sure it's parallel by just getting on the ground in front and make sure
it lines up. If it lines up really close over 30', it'll be CLOSE. Getting
the two spar strings to intersect the centerline string is where you need to be
the most finicky as you only have a few feet between them. Nice small string,
with a fair amount of tension and be very finicky about them JUST touching.
Now you measure up from the rear string to the spar just as the front. If you
have no washout, the dimensions will be the same. Or you can use direct measurements
to establish washout.
Using this method will eliminate any error in reading level and error in your hangar's
floor.
I'm sure this might not be enough detail for some folks, but is detailed enough
spawn questions.
Lastly, I've become pretty good friends with the guy at the EAA's museum who placed
EVERY airplane in there. He's traveled ALL OVER the nation to get those
planes, taking them apart, hauling them back and putting them back together.
His stories of just how INACCURATE the rigging is on so many of those airplanes
is surprising. The point being, especially in the genre of a Piet, there's
a lot of forgiveness. However, if you're like me, it's just tough to sleep at
night worring about these things. Establishing a REALLY accurate datum should
help a lot.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381355#381355
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Strut fittings |
Larry, Jack, et al:
I used the string method. Careful leveling ahead of time is a very
good idea, as you'd like to make sure that everything is going to turn
out true later on. But in truth, the string method is
self-referential in the sense that you are measuring from wing
locations compared to other wing locations and not to anything else.
Here are the steps:
1. Buy some non-stretch string that is long enough to span from wing
tip to wing tip. I used fishing line. Here in Colorado we have lots of
places to buy fishing line, most of which is beautiful fly-line used
to catch finicky high altitude trout. What I really wanted was the
sort of line that would be used by guys with southern drawls and
fishing boats that match their trucks who catch big honkin' fish just
waiting to be floured and fried. So it took a bit of looking to find
some line that would work.
2. You'll need two sticks. I used left over spruce about 3/4" by
3/4" and maybe 8 or 10 inches long.
3. Clamp one stick vertically to an outboard wing rib (notice exactly
which gusset or intercoastal to which you've clamp the stick).
4. Tie one end of the string a set distance above the capstrip of the
end rib (I tied mine one inch above the capstrip).
5. At the other end rib, do exactly the same (i.e. tying the string
the same distance above the capstrip at the same location on the rib)
while stretching the string very, very tight. You want to minimize
sag in the string. This is the reason for buying non-stretch line.
6. Measure the distance between the string and comparable ribs,
adjusting the spar lengths until you have exactly the same distances,
with whatever dihedral you want to dial in. I set my dihedral to
7/16" measured at the wing root, figuring that the sag in the line was
probably about 1/16".
7. Repeat the process at a couple of different locations down the
rib. I repeated it in three locations. Near the front of the rib;
the middle of the rib; just forward of the aileron bay.
This can be done by one person. A helper is handy so that one person
can be adjusting the spar length while the other is measuring. I had
two helpers, which was too much help.
Cheers, Ken
On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 7:44 AM, l.morlock <l.morlock@att.net> wrote:
> I've never used the string method, only a bunyip. Maybe Billy McCaskill can
> explain the string method further?
>
> Larry
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Greg Bacon
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 9:29 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Strut fittings
>
> Larry,
>
> Can you describe your string method? I'm assuming you stretch from end rib
> to end rib inbetween the front and rear spars. Do you set the dihedral by
> making sure the distances from the string to the wing are the same at all
> respective locations (E.g. - 3/16 inch at number 6 ribs, 3/4 inch at but
> ribs)? Seems simple enough.
>
> By the way, "Spider Wire" is a fishing string brand that would work well for
> this. It has almost no stretch.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Greg Bacon
>
> On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 8:19 AM, l.morlock <l.morlock@att.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Yes, you do have to level the fuselage first, forgot to mention that.
>> Wouldn't you also have to level the fuselage with the stretched string
>> method?
>>
>> Larry
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Billy McCaskill" <billmz@cox.net>
>> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 12:09 AM
>>
>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Strut fittings
>>
>>
>>>
>>> A bunyip will only be useful for setting dihedral if your shop/hangar
>>> floor is dead-flat and level. If the floor has even a slight pitch or slant
>>> to it, you could end up with some weird rigging issues. Your fuselage could
>>> be sitting at the same angle as the floor, but your wingtips will be level
>>> with each other. The stretched string is probably better suited for this
>>> job.
>>>
>>> --------
>>> Billy McCaskill
>>> Baker, LA
>>> tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381312#381312
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ===================================
>> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> ===================================
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ===================================
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ===================================
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Greg Bacon
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Slow speed rush to 1st flight |
Chris=2C how is yours coming? We have not seen or heard anything of you f
or a long time. The word is that family things are getting in the way=2C a
s well they should. Keep up some work and keep in touch. We need a coupl
e more of those continental powered piets to harass with our corviars. V
ic NX414MV And yes Gary's plane looks great!
From: catdesigns@att.net
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Slow speed rush to 1st flight
Gary's plane looks fantastic and he is very popular at the airport with lot
s of visitors and people waving as he taxies by. I can also report that the
Corvair engine preformed admirably as a ground based vehicle power plant
=2C but I would expect that from a car engine.
Chris
Sacramento=2C Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
Sent: Sunday=2C August 19=2C 2012 2:56 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Slow speed rush to 1st flight
In typical Pietenpol fashion=2C the taxi tests continue at slow and careful
rate.
Phase 1 taxi was for 2 hrs at 5mph. A slight problem developed with the tai
l wheel=2C which was easily remedied by a different washer arrangement (Cur
t ' a lot of the vibration is now gone!).
Today began Phase 2 ' two hours at 10-15mph. For a passenger=2C I had the
esteemed Chris Tracy. Airport visitor traffic was heavy=2C making any work
difficult. Brakes are ineffectual=2C but Dan Helsper led me to some nice b
rake linings that will need to be riveted on before further taxi. Curt Merd
an had suggested that my master switch appeared vulnerable=2C and=2C sure e
nough=2C I must have bumped it with my knee the last time I got out=85this
morning=2C switch was ON and battery was dead. I put the charger on for a f
ew hours before Chris showed up=2C but it was only enough to get a little j
uice back in the battery=85had to hand prop my Corvair! Nice to know that i
t=92s possible=85
For me=2C this time is proving valuable.
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Strut fittings |
Ken,
"adjusting the spar length"
Did you mean to say "lift strut length"?
Thanks,
Greg Bacon
On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 9:55 AM, Ken Bickers <bickers.ken@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Larry, Jack, et al:
>
> I used the string method. Careful leveling ahead of time is a very
> good idea, as you'd like to make sure that everything is going to turn
> out true later on. But in truth, the string method is
> self-referential in the sense that you are measuring from wing
> locations compared to other wing locations and not to anything else.
> Here are the steps:
>
> 1. Buy some non-stretch string that is long enough to span from wing
> tip to wing tip. I used fishing line. Here in Colorado we have lots of
> places to buy fishing line, most of which is beautiful fly-line used
> to catch finicky high altitude trout. What I really wanted was the
> sort of line that would be used by guys with southern drawls and
> fishing boats that match their trucks who catch big honkin' fish just
> waiting to be floured and fried. So it took a bit of looking to find
> some line that would work.
> 2. You'll need two sticks. I used left over spruce about 3/4" by
> 3/4" and maybe 8 or 10 inches long.
> 3. Clamp one stick vertically to an outboard wing rib (notice exactly
> which gusset or intercoastal to which you've clamp the stick).
> 4. Tie one end of the string a set distance above the capstrip of the
> end rib (I tied mine one inch above the capstrip).
> 5. At the other end rib, do exactly the same (i.e. tying the string
> the same distance above the capstrip at the same location on the rib)
> while stretching the string very, very tight. You want to minimize
> sag in the string. This is the reason for buying non-stretch line.
> 6. Measure the distance between the string and comparable ribs,
> adjusting the spar lengths until you have exactly the same distances,
> with whatever dihedral you want to dial in. I set my dihedral to
> 7/16" measured at the wing root, figuring that the sag in the line was
> probably about 1/16".
> 7. Repeat the process at a couple of different locations down the
> rib. I repeated it in three locations. Near the front of the rib;
> the middle of the rib; just forward of the aileron bay.
>
> This can be done by one person. A helper is handy so that one person
> can be adjusting the spar length while the other is measuring. I had
> two helpers, which was too much help.
>
> Cheers, Ken
>
> On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 7:44 AM, l.morlock <l.morlock@att.net> wrote:
> > I've never used the string method, only a bunyip. Maybe Billy McCaskill
> can
> > explain the string method further?
> >
> > Larry
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Greg Bacon
> > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> > Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 9:29 AM
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Strut fittings
> >
> > Larry,
> >
> > Can you describe your string method? I'm assuming you stretch from end
> rib
> > to end rib inbetween the front and rear spars. Do you set the dihedral
> by
> > making sure the distances from the string to the wing are the same at all
> > respective locations (E.g. - 3/16 inch at number 6 ribs, 3/4 inch at but
> > ribs)? Seems simple enough.
> >
> > By the way, "Spider Wire" is a fishing string brand that would work well
> for
> > this. It has almost no stretch.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Greg Bacon
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 8:19 AM, l.morlock <l.morlock@att.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Yes, you do have to level the fuselage first, forgot to mention that.
> >> Wouldn't you also have to level the fuselage with the stretched string
> >> method?
> >>
> >> Larry
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Billy McCaskill" <billmz@cox.net>
> >> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> >> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 12:09 AM
> >>
> >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Strut fittings
> >>
> >>
> billmz@cox.net>
> >>>
> >>> A bunyip will only be useful for setting dihedral if your shop/hangar
> >>> floor is dead-flat and level. If the floor has even a slight pitch or
> slant
> >>> to it, you could end up with some weird rigging issues. Your fuselage
> could
> >>> be sitting at the same angle as the floor, but your wingtips will be
> level
> >>> with each other. The stretched string is probably better suited for
> this
> >>> job.
> >>>
> >>> --------
> >>> Billy McCaskill
> >>> Baker, LA
> >>> tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Read this topic online here:
> >>>
> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381312#381312
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> ===================================
> >> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> >> ===================================
> >> http://forums.matronics.com
> >> ===================================
> >> le, List Admin.
> >> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> >> ===================================
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Greg Bacon
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--
Greg Bacon
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Strut fittings |
Ken explained it as well or better than I could. The taught string references
only the wing itself, and nothing else. Presuming that your cabanes/center section
were rigged square and plumb with the fuselage, it doesn't matter if your
floor has any slope or pitch when establishing the dihedral (or lack thereof).
As Ken said, you are measuring from the string stretched between the wingtips
to various points along the wing to make sure that your wingtips are each
at the same angle with respect to the center section. Adjust the length of your
lift struts to accommodate the dihedral angle you are trying to set.
Clear as mud, right? Hope that this helps.
--------
Billy McCaskill
Baker, LA
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381362#381362
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Strut fittings |
Yes, strut length. Thanks for the correction.
On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 9:09 AM, Greg Bacon <gbacon67@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ken,
>
> "adjusting the spar length"
>
> Did you mean to say "lift strut length"?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Greg Bacon
>
> On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 9:55 AM, Ken Bickers <bickers.ken@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Larry, Jack, et al:
>>
>> I used the string method. Careful leveling ahead of time is a very
>> good idea, as you'd like to make sure that everything is going to turn
>> out true later on. But in truth, the string method is
>> self-referential in the sense that you are measuring from wing
>> locations compared to other wing locations and not to anything else.
>> Here are the steps:
>>
>> 1. Buy some non-stretch string that is long enough to span from wing
>> tip to wing tip. I used fishing line. Here in Colorado we have lots of
>> places to buy fishing line, most of which is beautiful fly-line used
>> to catch finicky high altitude trout. What I really wanted was the
>> sort of line that would be used by guys with southern drawls and
>> fishing boats that match their trucks who catch big honkin' fish just
>> waiting to be floured and fried. So it took a bit of looking to find
>> some line that would work.
>> 2. You'll need two sticks. I used left over spruce about 3/4" by
>> 3/4" and maybe 8 or 10 inches long.
>> 3. Clamp one stick vertically to an outboard wing rib (notice exactly
>> which gusset or intercoastal to which you've clamp the stick).
>> 4. Tie one end of the string a set distance above the capstrip of the
>> end rib (I tied mine one inch above the capstrip).
>> 5. At the other end rib, do exactly the same (i.e. tying the string
>> the same distance above the capstrip at the same location on the rib)
>> while stretching the string very, very tight. You want to minimize
>> sag in the string. This is the reason for buying non-stretch line.
>> 6. Measure the distance between the string and comparable ribs,
>> adjusting the spar lengths until you have exactly the same distances,
>> with whatever dihedral you want to dial in. I set my dihedral to
>> 7/16" measured at the wing root, figuring that the sag in the line was
>> probably about 1/16".
>> 7. Repeat the process at a couple of different locations down the
>> rib. I repeated it in three locations. Near the front of the rib;
>> the middle of the rib; just forward of the aileron bay.
>>
>> This can be done by one person. A helper is handy so that one person
>> can be adjusting the spar length while the other is measuring. I had
>> two helpers, which was too much help.
>>
>> Cheers, Ken
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 7:44 AM, l.morlock <l.morlock@att.net> wrote:
>> > I've never used the string method, only a bunyip. Maybe Billy McCaskill
>> > can
>> > explain the string method further?
>> >
>> > Larry
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: Greg Bacon
>> > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>> > Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 9:29 AM
>> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Strut fittings
>> >
>> > Larry,
>> >
>> > Can you describe your string method? I'm assuming you stretch from end
>> > rib
>> > to end rib inbetween the front and rear spars. Do you set the dihedral
>> > by
>> > making sure the distances from the string to the wing are the same at
>> > all
>> > respective locations (E.g. - 3/16 inch at number 6 ribs, 3/4 inch at but
>> > ribs)? Seems simple enough.
>> >
>> > By the way, "Spider Wire" is a fishing string brand that would work well
>> > for
>> > this. It has almost no stretch.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > Greg Bacon
>> >
>> > On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 8:19 AM, l.morlock <l.morlock@att.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Yes, you do have to level the fuselage first, forgot to mention that.
>> >> Wouldn't you also have to level the fuselage with the stretched string
>> >> method?
>> >>
>> >> Larry
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Billy McCaskill" <billmz@cox.net>
>> >> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>> >> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 12:09 AM
>> >>
>> >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Strut fittings
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> <billmz@cox.net>
>> >>>
>> >>> A bunyip will only be useful for setting dihedral if your shop/hangar
>> >>> floor is dead-flat and level. If the floor has even a slight pitch or
>> >>> slant
>> >>> to it, you could end up with some weird rigging issues. Your fuselage
>> >>> could
>> >>> be sitting at the same angle as the floor, but your wingtips will be
>> >>> level
>> >>> with each other. The stretched string is probably better suited for
>> >>> this
>> >>> job.
>> >>>
>> >>> --------
>> >>> Billy McCaskill
>> >>> Baker, LA
>> >>> tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Read this topic online here:
>> >>>
>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381312#381312
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ===================================
>> >> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> >> ===================================
>> >> http://forums.matronics.com
>> >> ===================================
>> >> le, List Admin.
>> >> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> >> ===================================
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Greg Bacon
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> ==========
>> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>>
>> ==========
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Greg Bacon
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Strut fittings |
Back to the string method, if I understand the question correctly (Jack-?), how
to use a string to set the dihedral. What I did was to stretch a string from
wingtip to wingtip more or less over the front spar, then measure the gap at
the centersection (see sketch). If I remember correctly, the gap is about 3".
If you stand back and look at it, with the airplane set level (tail up), you
can tell if the wings are cranked up unevenly. Then if you move the string back
to where it's over the aft spar, you can do the same thing for the aft struts.
It worked when I rerigged Scout after pulling off the wings, but then again nothing
was moved very much from when it was originally rigged, so there wasn't a
lot of adjustment to be made.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford/Ashland, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381377#381377
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/string_912.jpg
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Slow speed rush to 1st flight |
So is it mandatory that the pilot be color matched with his plane?
"Here we see pilot and builder Gary Boothe posing in a wonderful Olive shirt sleeve
next to his latest masterpiece, the Olive Poplar Piet..."
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381381#381381
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: bunyips, bubbles and gravity.... Re: Aluminum Strut |
fittings
What, pray tell, is a bunyip? New one on me! C
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 8:41 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: bunyips, bubbles and gravity.... Re: Aluminum Strut
fittings
> <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
>
> Egad, I never even thought about that....
>
> Ok, so the way I do it is: I first put the fuse up on saw horses and level
> it using whatever method....
>
> Then I level everything else using the same method, bunyip, laser or
> whatever. I also have a digital level but it just doesn't seem to get as
> accurate as a bubble, laser or bunyip.
>
> Am I missing something or wouldn't that do the trick?
>
> I hope this is ok since I'm gonna do the tail feathers/cables shortly.
>
> And I haven't had my first cup of coffee so maybe I'm missing
> something....
>
> JM
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Billy McCaskill <billmz@cox.net>
>>Sent: Aug 19, 2012 11:09 PM
>>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Strut fittings
>>
>>
>>A bunyip will only be useful for setting dihedral if your shop/hangar
>>floor is dead-flat and level. If the floor has even a slight pitch or
>>slant to it, you could end up with some weird rigging issues. Your
>>fuselage could be sitting at the same angle as the floor, but your
>>wingtips will be level with each other. The stretched string is probably
>>better suited for this job.
>>
>>--------
>>Billy McCaskill
>>Baker, LA
>>tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Read this topic online here:
>>
>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381312#381312
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: bunyips, bubbles and gravity.... Re: Aluminum Strut |
fittings
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Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Slow speed rush to 1st flight |
In a word, "Yes." But, then, you know how fashion conscious we are in Cali.
------Original Message------
From: Mark Roberts
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
ReplyTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Slow speed rush to 1st flight
Sent: Aug 20, 2012 10:15 AM
So is it mandatory that the pilot be color matched with his plane?
"Here we see pilot and builder Gary Boothe posing in a wonderful Olive shirt sleeve
next to his latest masterpiece, the Olive Poplar Piet..."
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Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Control sticks in position... |
Hello Mark,
The pedals are "homebuilder" pedals (single place version) from Aircraft Spruce:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/rudderpedalkit.php
The brake cylinders are from MATCO (2361 South 1560 West, Woods Cross, UT 84087
(801) 335-0582)
http://www.matcomfg.com/contact.html
...and were specialy made slightly shorter than the stock version. (I placed an
order with them on a weekday morning and the cylinders were on my doorstep THE
NEXT DAY...!)
I am VERY happy with how they are fitting/integrating into my plane but have NOT
finished building it so "imitator" beware... :=)
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
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Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Control sticks in position... |
PERFECT!! Many thanks for the info. I think I might be getting closer to what I
will be duplicating... :D
Again, thanks for all the info!
Mark
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Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Strut fittings |
Thank you very much to all that responded, I get it now! Oh, what's
dihedral? Just kidding...
Jack Textor
DSM
NX1929T
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 5:30 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Strut fittings
Ken, Billy and others please further explain the string and stick method.
I'm having trouble visualizing.
Thanks!
Jack Textor
DSM
NX1929T
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Billy
McCaskill
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 11:09 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Strut fittings
A bunyip will only be useful for setting dihedral if your shop/hangar floor
is dead-flat and level. If the floor has even a slight pitch or slant to
it, you could end up with some weird rigging issues. Your fuselage could be
sitting at the same angle as the floor, but your wingtips will be level with
each other. The stretched string is probably better suited for this job.
--------
Billy McCaskill
Baker, LA
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
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Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Rigging references. |
Tools, your explanation on the string method is about as clear as mud to my
simple mind. I am using the LAR method now and when I stand in front of the
plane inthe hangar it looks good with about 1.5 degree dihedral which was what
I
had before the tornado at sun n fun. I will try and figure out your system.
Gardiner
----- Original Message ----
From: tools <n0kkj@yahoo.com>
Sent: Mon, August 20, 2012 10:52:53 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rigging references.
I do a lot of machine tool rebuilding which is completely analogous to rigging
a
wing. I've noticed a couple of things which weren't completely explained.
First, using a string to establish dihedral, or make sure there isn't any. It's
alright to stretch a string between the wingtips and make sure it's 1 1/2" above
the center section to establish dihedral, but you ALSO have to make sure that
string is level, to make sure EACH SIDE has the same dihedral.
Making sure a string is level isn't an easy thing with a level. Even a 4' level
isn't that long compared to 29', and holding it is another matter. Lastly, the
quality of the typical 4' level isn't that great. Small errors transposed over
29' quickly add up. The laser level or water level will work better. Easily as
accurate, is to forget about level, and only worry about relative dimensions.
Stretch a string near the floor under the front spar and get it as close to
level as you can by eye for convenience. Put another under the middle of the
fuse, front to back, perpendicular to the first. Make sure it's perpendicular
by using a 3x4x5 pythagorean triplet. That is measure along one line 3', the
other 4' and make sure those two poings (which form the hypotenuse of a right
triangle) are exactly 5' apart (diagonally). If they are, you have a REALLY
accurate right angle. Adjust one string as necessary to make that happen.
Prop up the plane's tail to get the top longeron of the fuse parallel to the
front to back string. If your fuse isn't covered, set a straight board across,
hang a string down in the middle of it and make sure the middle is lined up and
the distance from that board to the string is the same, all along the centerline
of the fuse.
Now make sure your fuselage is perpendicular to spar string in the x axis the
same way as described as making sure the wing is perpendicular to the fuse as
looked at from above.
Now make sure the fuse is perpendicular to the spar string in the y axis. Clamp
a nice straight board to the side of the fuse down to the string. Make sure it
makes a right angle. Measure up along that board 4', measure out along the
string 3' and then make sure the hypotenuse is 5'.
Now just measure up from the spar string to points on the wing, using a plumb
bob, to establish dihedral and make sure the wing is on straight (or the front
spar is).
Now, put another string parallel to the front spar string, under the rear spar.
Make sure it's parallel by just getting on the ground in front and make sure it
lines up. If it lines up really close over 30', it'll be CLOSE. Getting the
two spar strings to intersect the centerline string is where you need to be the
most finicky as you only have a few feet between them. Nice small string, with
a fair amount of tension and be very finicky about them JUST touching.
Now you measure up from the rear string to the spar just as the front. If you
have no washout, the dimensions will be the same. Or you can use direct
measurements to establish washout.
Using this method will eliminate any error in reading level and error in your
hangar's floor.
I'm sure this might not be enough detail for some folks, but is detailed enough
spawn questions.
Lastly, I've become pretty good friends with the guy at the EAA's museum who
placed EVERY airplane in there. He's traveled ALL OVER the nation to get those
planes, taking them apart, hauling them back and putting them back together.
His stories of just how INACCURATE the rigging is on so many of those airplanes
is surprising. The point being, especially in the genre of a Piet, there's a
lot of forgiveness. However, if you're like me, it's just tough to sleep at
night worring about these things. Establishing a REALLY accurate datum should
help a lot.
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Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: bunyips, bubbles and gravity.... Re: Aluminum Strut fittings |
Thank you for the bunyip tutorial Jim.... I have lots of that tubing, and will
be leveling tables this weekend for beginning the rebuild on the fuselage. I
might just try it if my regular level doesn't work out.
--------
Shelley Tumino
IT Girl
wife of "Axel"
NX899KP
DO NOT ARCHIVE
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Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Rigging references. |
Ya, kinda figured that might be the case. First, it isn't THE string method, but
merely A string method.
Generally, THE string method involves stretching a string along the spar of the
wing to get a straight reference.
Doing that on the top will get the correct total dihedral, but doesn't necessarily
make sure it's even on both sides. Doing it on the bottom, which requires
standing the string off the spar at the ends, and raising the panel until the
string touches at the cabane strut, will keep it even on both sides.
The method I TRY to describe really just involves making simple datum plane below
the plane, close to the ground.
Use a string where you need references, the centerline of the plane, and both spars.
You could put a fourth under the horiz stab. It's like a line drawing
of the plane you might say. Then you just measure down to the datum plane you
just established. Measuring from the plane, straight down is easy with a simple
plumb bob.
Just like laying the grid pattern for a tile floor, getting the initial two lines
actually perpendicular isn't a simple matter of using a framing square if you
want it accurate. Using a 3,4,5 triangle (or multiple like 6,8,10) works really
well and is easy.
You then make sure the fuse is accurately aligned to the centerline string in pitch,
roll and yaw you might say. It's kind of an iterative process. Align one
axis, check another, recheck the first, check the third, recheck the first
two... etc.
Once that is done, it all starts to make sense.
Using a laser level makes it all A LOT easier, but using a bubble level really
gives lots of chances for error that can be eliminated by forgetting level altogether,
and making sure you have an accurate reference.
Using a water level is actually pretty cool and works GREAT for dihedral and such,
but you still need to use "reference" sort of measurements for other aspects
of rigging, like getting the wing perpendicular to the centerline of the plane
and such.
I doubt many will go to such extreme, but an understanding of how it works, will
give a lot more confidence in other methods used as well.
More mud?
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Message 32
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| Subject: | 4130 vs 1025 steel (or 1010) |
I dropped of a sheet of 4130 x .032 to a friend of mine who owns a steel fabrication
shop, and he asked if I could use another kind of steel than 4130. He asked
because he said he had plentiful amounts of 1010 sheet steel in varying quantities,
and he said if I wanted to compensate for the strength differences,
he thought I could cut the rest out of stock he has on hand if I wanted.
As metal is my weakness here (in experience level), I am wondering what you folks
think about this, outside of my knee-jerk reaction to say "No" just because
it's not sold at ACS or Wicks...
My bird will have extra wing area, and yet weight is still important, but what
other points might I need to consider if I looked at using another steel aside
from 4130? Didn't the 1930's Piets use 1025 or something?
Thanks for your perspectives. I searched the archives before posting to see if
this had been asked and didn't see anything, but I might have missed it.
Mark
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Message 33
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Actually - I am on the list Dick - just sinking in massive hours trying to finish
my other plane(Sonex/Waiex). Am sending in the paperwork to the FAA this week
to schedule my inspection.
Am seriously looking forward to Blakesburg as well!! Will be flying down either
Wednesday after work or Thursday morning and staying through till Sunday. Weather
permitting, of course. Otherwise will be driving. They always park my GN-1
down the hill by the airfields' Piet. For those of you camping there - be
sure to bring metal spikes and a hammer to get your tent secured as well as your
plane if you fly it in. It's been so dry that you may need a sledge.
I think we need to have a serious group meeting at the Pilot's Pub and discuss
the quality of the pictures... First round is on me. Friday night???
Rest of my time will be spent with "hound dog eyes" trying to get a ride in a Waco
or a Monocoupe - (if any happen to show up)
Dick - hope you get your radial piet there - we need somebody there with star power
like yourself...
Cheers - hope to see some of you there!
Lorin Miller
GN-1 N30PP
Waiex N81YX
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| Subject: | Re: bunyips, bubbles and gravity.... Re: Aluminum Strut fitting |
That looks like a good tool to make for various projects... Thanks for posting
that.
I searched google for bunyips and just saw mythical creatures, nothing like a useful
tool idea. Good post Jim!
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| Subject: | Re: Rigging references. |
I for one appreciate the method you described, even if it took a bit to re-read
and visualize the methodology. I have a ways to go before I can try it, but thanks
to Matt, we have good archives!
Mark
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