Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:19 AM - Re: Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 (Jack)
2. 05:07 AM - Re: Re: Piet parts to Brodhead (Ryan Mueller)
3. 05:20 AM - Re: Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 (Andrew Eldredge)
4. 05:42 AM - Re: Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 (Ryan Mueller)
5. 07:20 AM - Re: Looking for a steel tube piet (g. doe)
6. 07:26 AM - Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 (AircamperN11MS)
7. 07:58 AM - Re: Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 (Ryan Mueller)
8. 08:09 AM - Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 (dgaldrich)
9. 08:24 AM - Re: Spar Routing (Don Emch)
10. 08:29 AM - Re: Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 (Ryan Mueller)
11. 08:40 AM - Re: Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 (Ryan Mueller)
12. 08:40 AM - Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 (AircamperN11MS)
13. 09:13 AM - Piet album website (AircamperN11MS)
14. 09:38 AM - Re: Piet album website (Ryan Mueller)
15. 09:52 AM - Re: Re: Spar Routing (Ken Bickers)
16. 10:08 AM - Re: Spar Routing (Don Emch)
17. 10:19 AM - Re: Spar Routing (curtdm(at)gmail.com)
18. 10:25 AM - Re: Spar Routing (Don Emch)
19. 10:52 AM - Re: Spar Routing (curtdm(at)gmail.com)
20. 10:53 AM - Re: Re: Spar Routing (Ryan Mueller)
21. 11:53 AM - How would you position the control stick? (Jim Markle)
22. 11:55 AM - two niceset guys you'd ever want to meet (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC])
23. 12:21 PM - Re: How would you position the control stick? (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC])
24. 12:23 PM - Re: two niceset guys you'd ever want to meet (Ryan Mueller)
25. 12:51 PM - Re: How would you position the control stick? (Jim Markle)
26. 01:18 PM - Re: two niceset guys you'd ever want to meet (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC])
27. 01:33 PM - Re: two niceset guys you'd ever want to meet (Don Emch)
28. 01:38 PM - Re: Re: two niceset guys you'd ever want to meet (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC])
29. 01:49 PM - Re: two niceset guys you'd ever want to meet (Don Emch)
30. 03:02 PM - Re: How would you position the control stick? (tools)
31. 03:05 PM - Re: How would you position the control stick? (tools)
32. 03:51 PM - Re: two niceset guys you'd ever want to meet (Gary Boothe)
33. 04:10 PM - Re: Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 (Ben Charvet)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 |
For those that need to safety their carb, the ad provides good pictures for
example.
Jack Textor
DSM
NX1929T
do not archive
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Mueller
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2012 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1
Strombergs are excellent carbs, simple tech that has been proven over many
years on god knows how many different production/experimental aircraft and
engines.
As Dave mentioned, the dripping is a simple issue of where the float bowl
vent port is relative to the level of fuel in the bowl when the carburetor
is installed on a taildragger. This was addressed over 50 years ago by a
Service Bulletin.....shops/people don't know about or don't perform the SB,
and they still drip....from D&G Supply's page: "For Stromberg/NAS model
carburetors utilized on "taildraggers", care must be taken to control the
fuel level in the bowl to accommodate the slanted mounting of this unit on
the engine to prevent overflow leakage. There is a modification to this
carburetor per Service Bulletin #73 dated 6/58 that removes a potential
leaking air bleed hole located low in the throat by plugging and re-drilling
a new one further up". Simple resolution.
I just happened to stumble upon the gentleman Dave mentioned in the Vintage
Barn (Bob Kachergius), and sat in on his talk.....he definitely knows what
he's talking about. He went through the carb top to bottom, with samples,
cutaway carbs, etc, pointing out all the different little details of an
overhaul that might get missed: SB 73, the warping from overtightening the
screws, looking for evidence of corrosion from water at in the bottom of the
float bowl, how the float needle seat hole many times was not drilled deep
enough at the factory, so the seat is too proud and you can't properly set
the float level unless you machine it properly, etc etc, and how he
addresses them.
His overhaul price was a little more than some other shops, but I'd be hard
pressed to imagine you could find a more thorough overhaul. Steve Krog
interviewed him for an article in the August 2011 VAA mag, and he's
apparently written numerous articles in various type club publications (Cub
Club, etc). Anywho, he's got an ad up on Barnstormers:
http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_392052_STROMBERG+NA-S3++CARBURETORS.h
tml
Ryan
ryan@rmueller.org
On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 9:37 AM, tools <n0kkj@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dick bought my carb at Sun-n-fun and just sent it out for a complete
rebuild. And in it's defense, it NEVER stumbled on me (except for the broke
primer line) except while adding power to taxi IMMEDIATELY after startup.
However, I was warned (by quite a few people) that just firewalling it with
no regard wasn't a good idea, and knowing it has no accelator pump, it made
sense. I started the carb heat routine while I was troubleshooting the
backfiring (lean condition) caused by the broke primer line, and it helped
quite a bit, which lets me know it would help with a lean condition caused
by quick acceleration and no accelerator pump.
Also, it didn't make sense to waste time taking my hand off the throttle,
moving to the carb heat (all while slowing down and wasting runway), then
back to the throttle to go around. So it's a routine I use ALL the time.
While a good carb, it is old... I'm going to go read the article you
mention. I do have a question for you and Mike. Can you get your carbs to
hesitate? If it's adjusted properly, will it hesitate at all? Under any
normal condition?
I guess the whole point is this. If SOME hesitation under an extremely
quick advance of the throttle from a full idle is normal, then you can
experience it knowing things are probably alright with your carb.
As how these things go, I was warned of it and after I JUST became a little
comfortable with it, I did advance the throttle more quickly (I would
advance the throttle VERY slowly at first because I wasn't much used to a
taildragger, rather than trying to overcome a difficulty with the carb) and
found that hesitation so assumed it normal. As it turned out, it wasn't!
A technique I use with jet engines is to never let the engine "go to sleep".
Especially with pure jets (no fan) and older jets, the response time from a
developed idle can be dangerously slow. If you jockey the engines just
enough, you'll keep them in a position where you have good response, without
adding any significant thrust that would compromise the approach. Same
applies to a piet.
I notice many light civil pilots basically fly a no power final approach
(which guarantees making the field with an engine failure, not a bad idea).
Now if you fly that approach at a close to touchdown speed, if you do get
low and add power with hesitation, you're in bad shape. If you fly that
approach at a higher speed, short of touchdown and glide into it, you have
margin for error, enough time (speed) to get through a hesitation.
I, on the other hand, with a huge lack of experience in light civil planes,
and YEARS AND YEARS of "bad habits", fly a lower power on approach, which
keeps my engine out of the region where it would hesitate with a quick
advance anyway.
As I mentioned, the whole point of the discussion (in my mind) is to help us
understand what the limitations of our carbs are so that we can determine if
something isn't right. It's quite possible it SHOULDN'T ever hesitate and
my flying habits would mask that condition and I'd never know if my carb was
adjusted right in that regime or not.
Lastly, the old drip from these old carbs. I'm on the verge of buying a
little Chief with an A65. The owner just had the carb totally overhauled
(to the tune of $600) because it would drip. I was told that was silly,
because they all drip...
I'm of the opinion that no good carb should just drip. Something is wrong
in there if it does. May not really matter because it won't drip while
running, but still...
Oh ya, one more thing. When I was buying n2rn it was being inspected. A
cylinder had to be pulled for some work. After we put it together and ran
it, it had a little pop on acceleration. Dick wasn't happy and we thought
maybe leaking a little air somewhere and we went about tightening all the
hose clamps on the intake system. Problem went away. None of them seemed
loose. It does seem that this engine is quite sensitive to any leaks in the
intake system. So don't confuse that problem with a POSSIBLE propensity for
hesitating due to a lack of complexity.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382499#382499
==========
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
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Subject: | Re: Piet parts to Brodhead |
If they didn't get this with the airplane, might be worth a couple of bucks
just for the backstory on what they bought:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Building-Pietenpol-NX925GP-Air-Camper-Notes-Pictures-DVD-R-David-Stephens-/320977644291?pt=US_Nonfiction_Book&hash=item4abbc22b03
On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 1:19 PM, skipgadd@earthlink.net <
skipgadd@earthlink.net> wrote:
> skipgadd@earthlink.net>
>
> Jim,
> Know what you mean. When David said he was going to deliver his Piet to
> Brodhead, I thought gee I'll bet he could use some help. The MAAC fly-in is
> just icing on the cake.
> Skip
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
> > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> > Date: 9/5/2012 12:38:15 PM
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet parts to Brodhead
> >
> <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
> >
> > Dang, I'm stating to get that old familiar "we're going to Brodhead and
> you're not..." feeling...again.
> >
> > I hate that....
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 |
Since the mixture control in the Stromberg is vacuum operated, not to
mention the venturi, I've decided that the speed of the pull is important
when I am pulling in advance of a start. When pulling backward, is the
process sensitive to blade speed?
Andrew Eldredge
Provo, UT
On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 9:58 PM, tools <n0kkj@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Yep, classic a65 flood clearing procedure from what I've heard from a few
> different sources.
>
> Mags - off
> Throt - wide open
> Blades - pull through BACKWARDS, about a dozen
>
> Throt - closed (EASY to screw this up, be VERY careful)
> Carb heat - off
> Mags - on
>
> Start as usual.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382569#382569
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 |
No, it is not. And a dozen blades is a bit excessive, unless you like the
exercise. 4 or 5, and give her a go. Not entirely sure why it's so easy to
screw up closing the throttle....if you have to be VERY careful about
pulling something to the rear until it stops, maybe this whole airplane
thing is not your recommended hobby....
Ryan
On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 7:20 AM, Andrew Eldredge
<andrew.eldredge@gmail.com>wrote:
> Since the mixture control in the Stromberg is vacuum operated, not to
> mention the venturi, I've decided that the speed of the pull is important
> when I am pulling in advance of a start. When pulling backward, is the
> process sensitive to blade speed?
>
> Andrew Eldredge
> Provo, UT
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 9:58 PM, tools <n0kkj@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Yep, classic a65 flood clearing procedure from what I've heard from a few
>> different sources.
>>
>> Mags - off
>> Throt - wide open
>> Blades - pull through BACKWARDS, about a dozen
>>
>> Throt - closed (EASY to screw this up, be VERY careful)
>> Carb heat - off
>> Mags - on
>>
>> Start as usual.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382569#382569
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Looking for a steel tube piet |
Greg, there is a flyer in Woodstock, GA for sale, it is on Barnstormers, it
is at the grass field I fly out of, gary=0A=0A=0A=0A______________________
__________=0AFrom: Greg Bacon <gbacon67@gmail.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@mat
ronics.com =0ASent: Tuesday, September 4, 2012 9:57 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol
-List: Looking for a steel tube piet=0A=0A=0AGents,=0AThere is a fellow in
Australia that is looking to purchase a steel tube piet (flying - not a pro
ject). -Please contact me if you know of anyone interested in selling one
===============
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 |
Steve,
I have quit using the method you have described when clearing my flooded Cont.
A friend of mine who use to investigate AC accidents for Cont. powered aircraft
showed me a better method and it works every time. I'm sure that you have
noticed that when you clear it with your procedures that it will not always work
every time.
I'll describe the way I do it now. First make sure the planes tail is tied down
for safety. With the Mags off and the throttle in the wide open position,
Pull the prop through about 10 blades in the forward direction. This does a couple
of things. It pushes the raw fuel out the exhaust rather than putting it
back into the intake system (reducing the chance of a backfire into the carburetor
and fire) and it also keeps the engine oil in the oil pump (preventing
oil cavitation). After pulling it through, reduce the throttle to the idle or
cracked position (whatever works best for you), Flip on the mags and it will
start on the first pull. Works every time. The only scary part is pulling it
through at WOT and hoping that the mag switches work. Keep mindful that Switches
can fail and you could have an unintentional engine start when pulling it
through. But we all know that we must be prepare for that anytime we touch
a prop. I am one who shuts my engine down with the mag switches and I am fairly
confident that my switches always work.
Give it a try, I think it is a better alternative and better for the engine.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382594#382594
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Subject: | Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 |
Funny how quirky each one can be....502Rocket takes 2 shots of prime and
four blades, and starts every time. Turn the switch off, and it quits.
Pretty simple
On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 9:25 AM, AircamperN11MS <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org>wrote:
> Scott.liefeld@lacity.org>
>
> Steve,
>
> I have quit using the method you have described when clearing my flooded
> Cont. A friend of mine who use to investigate AC accidents for Cont.
> powered aircraft showed me a better method and it works every time. I'm
> sure that you have noticed that when you clear it with your procedures that
> it will not always work every time.
>
>
> I'll describe the way I do it now. First make sure the planes tail is
> tied down for safety. With the Mags off and the throttle in the wide open
> position, Pull the prop through about 10 blades in the forward direction.
> This does a couple of things. It pushes the raw fuel out the exhaust
> rather than putting it back into the intake system (reducing the chance of
> a backfire into the carburetor and fire) and it also keeps the engine oil
> in the oil pump (preventing oil cavitation). After pulling it through,
> reduce the throttle to the idle or cracked position (whatever works best
> for you), Flip on the mags and it will start on the first pull. Works
> every time. The only scary part is pulling it through at WOT and hoping
> that the mag switches work. Keep mindful that Switches can fail and you
> could have an unintentional engine start when pulling it through. But we
> all know that we must be prepare for that anytime we touch a prop. I am
> one who shuts my engine down with the !
> mag switches and I am fairly confident that my switches always work.
>
> Give it a try, I think it is a better alternative and better for the
> engine.
>
> --------
> Scott Liefeld
> Flying N11MS since March 1972
> Steel Tube
> C-85-12
> Wire Wheels
> Brodhead in 1996
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382594#382594
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 |
I seem to recall a knowledgeable person (the guy on the Bower's list??) positing
that flooding was caused by using the mags to shut the engine down. Because
the engine is still sucking fuel, the plugs get fouled. He suggested shutting
the engine down using a fuel shutoff valve close to the carb fuel supply and
opening the throttle as it dies to get more air through. Also has the advantage
of stopping any dripping due to float level issues. Something to think...
Dave
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382596#382596
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Subject: | Re: Spar Routing |
Mr. Pietenpol did use 3/4" laminated spars at some point later on. I would think
a 3/4" laminated spar would inherently be a little stronger than a 3/4" solid
spar because of doing away with the possible voids in a solid spar. Often
times I hear people mention that a 3/4" solid spar is as strong as a routed 1"
spar. I don't believe this to be the case. The strength of the spar is in the
top and bottom where it is in tension and compression. That is why so many
of the older airplanes have routed spars... to get that larger cross-section
at the top and bottom of the spar. As far as the cost goes the difference between
a 3/4" thick spar and a 1" thick spar is peanuts compared to the entire project.
Obviously 3/4" solid spars are fine because there are many Piets flying
with them. The Cubs, Champs, etc. that have less than 1" thick spars are quite
a bit taller than the Piet's 4 3/4", giving more strength. One thing to
remember... when many of the manufacturers from this era went to a more powerful
engine, they almost always increased the thickness of the spar...(Waco, American
Eagle, Swallow, etc.) Keep in mind many of our Piets are flying around
with at least 50% more power than the original plans call for.
I know this topic has been beaten to death but I just thought I'd share my thoughts.
:)
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382600#382600
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Subject: | Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 |
You're at idle when you turn off the mags, not bringing in much fuel for a
few seconds, how would that contribute to flooding?
How do plugs get fouled if they are not sparking for a few seconds?
Sure, if you turn off the fuel and want to wait until the engine consumes
the fuel in the bowl and dies, go ahead. Or just have SB 73 done to the
carb, and don't worry about it.
On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 10:09 AM, dgaldrich <dgaldrich@embarqmail.com> wrote:
> dgaldrich@embarqmail.com>
>
> I seem to recall a knowledgeable person (the guy on the Bower's list??)
> positing that flooding was caused by using the mags to shut the engine
> down. Because the engine is still sucking fuel, the plugs get fouled. He
> suggested shutting the engine down using a fuel shutoff valve close to the
> carb fuel supply and opening the throttle as it dies to get more air
> through. Also has the advantage of stopping any dripping due to float
> level issues. Something to think...
>
> Dave
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382596#382596
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 |
Just curious.....how is your Piet doing? Nice ship, hope she'll be back in
the air soon....
On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 9:37 AM, tools <n0kkj@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I'm on the verge of buying a little Chief with an A65
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 |
I don't have much problem with flooding anyway. My plane requires different priming
procedures depending on which fuel I am running. 100LL takes a lot less
priming than auto gas does. Due to the specific gravity of the fuels, I guess.
I also shut my fuel off as I turn the corner for my hanger. I guess about
10 seconds before I shut the mags off. This just empties the fuel bowl a little
before shut down. I have a steel needle and seat in the carb and have no
trouble with dripping.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382602#382602
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Subject: | Piet album website |
This is interesting. This adds up to a lot of history.
http://www.abpic.co.uk/search.php?q=Pietenpol%20AirCamper&u=type&sort=&page=0&limit=10
Enjoy
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382608#382608
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Subject: | Re: Piet album website |
Also, Chris Tracy's excellent site, a bit more accessible:
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/
On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 11:13 AM, AircamperN11MS <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org>wrote:
> Scott.liefeld@lacity.org>
>
> This is interesting. This adds up to a lot of history.
>
>
> http://www.abpic.co.uk/search.php?q=Pietenpol%20AirCamper&u=type&sort=&page=0&limit=10
>
> Enjoy
>
> --------
> Scott Liefeld
> Flying N11MS since March 1972
> Steel Tube
> C-85-12
> Wire Wheels
> Brodhead in 1996
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382608#382608
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Spar Routing |
Don, when I was trying to decide on what spar option to take, I used
the formulas in the publications found on the WestCoastPiet site.
Based on my calculations of 3/4" versus routed 1" spars using Sitka
Spruce, I found that the 1" routed spar should be approximately 11%
stronger than the 3/4" solid spar. Notice that I didn't try to
calculate the strength of built up 3/4" spars. It also appeared that
the weight would be essentially the same. The built up 3/4" spars
would presumably be heavier, as they would have several glue joints
that neither of the other two spar options would require. Cheers, Ken
On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 9:24 AM, Don Emch <EmchAir@aol.com> wrote:
>
> Mr. Pietenpol did use 3/4" laminated spars at some point later on. I would think
a 3/4" laminated spar would inherently be a little stronger than a 3/4" solid
spar because of doing away with the possible voids in a solid spar. Often
times I hear people mention that a 3/4" solid spar is as strong as a routed
1" spar. I don't believe this to be the case. The strength of the spar is in
the top and bottom where it is in tension and compression. That is why so many
of the older airplanes have routed spars... to get that larger cross-section
at the top and bottom of the spar. As far as the cost goes the difference between
a 3/4" thick spar and a 1" thick spar is peanuts compared to the entire
project. Obviously 3/4" solid spars are fine because there are many Piets flying
with them. The Cubs, Champs, etc. that have less than 1" thick spars are
quite a bit taller than the Piet's 4 3/4", giving more strength. One thing to
remember... when many of the manufacturers from this!
> era went to a more powerful engine, they almost always increased the thickness
of the spar...(Waco, American Eagle, Swallow, etc.) Keep in mind many of
our Piets are flying around with at least 50% more power than the original plans
call for.
>
> I know this topic has been beaten to death but I just thought I'd share my thoughts.
:)
>
> Don Emch
> NX899DE
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382600#382600
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Spar Routing |
Ken,
I would agree with you. Thanks for the input!
Don Emch
NX899DE
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Subject: | Re: Spar Routing |
I don't know how the amount of engine power relates to the thickness of a spar.
I think the load the spar can carry is most important. The drag and anti-drag
wires should be sufficient to stabilize the thinner board.
My original question was how deep to route the 3/4" spar. If it is routed only
1/8" deep on both sides, you still have 1/2" remaining just like the original
1" spar. I have faith that the 3/4" routed spar will be plenty strong to carry
the plane and two people and still be below it's operating load limit with
plenty of margin before hitting it's ultimate load limit.
I do believe a 3/4" laminated spar is stronger, built up like a glulam structural
beam.
--------
Curt Merdan
Flower Mound, TX
Do Not Archive
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Subject: | Re: Spar Routing |
Curt,
I'm not arguing in any way. I'm just sharing my thoughts on it and what I have
seen in building up different wings. The manufacturers had something in mind
in the late 20's when they were going from the heavy, big 90hp OX5 to the more
powerful radials because many of them increased the spar thickness. Just reporting
on what I've seen. Carry on...
Don Emch
NX899DE
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Subject: | Re: Spar Routing |
Don't worry Don, I didn't think you were arguing.
I'll never be on Oprah's book list because I always come across argumentative when
I write. That's why I usually keep my mouth shut and my hands behind my back.
[Wink]
--------
Curt Merdan
Flower Mound, TX
Do Not Archive
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Subject: | Re: Spar Routing |
I'm looking at a plan sheet, dated 01/10/75, designed by B.H. Pietenpol,
drawn by Vi Kapler.....
Center Section Spar = 3/4 spruce
Wing Panel Spar = 3/4 spruce
What non-existent problem is trying to be solved?
On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 12:19 PM, curtdm(at)gmail.com <curtdm@gmail.com>wrote:
> curtdm@gmail.com>
>
> I don't know how the amount of engine power relates to the thickness of a
> spar. I think the load the spar can carry is most important. The drag and
> anti-drag wires should be sufficient to stabilize the thinner board.
> My original question was how deep to route the 3/4" spar. If it is routed
> only 1/8" deep on both sides, you still have 1/2" remaining just like the
> original 1" spar. I have faith that the 3/4" routed spar will be plenty
> strong to carry the plane and two people and still be below it's operating
> load limit with plenty of margin before hitting it's ultimate load limit.
> I do believe a 3/4" laminated spar is stronger, built up like a glulam
> structural beam.
>
> --------
> Curt Merdan
> Flower Mound, TX
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382617#382617
>
>
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Subject: | How would you position the control stick? |
Where would you recommend the control stick rest in neutral/cruising position?
Tony B says it should move freely around a 10" square but I'm wondering if the
center of that box should maybe be a bit in front of straight up and down.
Or would you recommend I just sit in it and put the stick at a "neutral feeling"
position for me? (That makes the most sense.)
I've seen a couple that had bends in them that moved the actual grip forward a
few inches. Mine is already built so I'm not adding an offset but would like
to finish hooking up the control cables. But I figure now is a good time to sit
in it and also consider the input of some of you with Air Camper flying experience.
Sort of unrelated picture of recent cable completions attached.
Thanks!
Jim in Pryor
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Subject: | two niceset guys you'd ever want to meet |
Curt Merdan and Don Emch. Two of the most pleasant people I've ever had
the pleasure of meeting
at Brodhead.
Shame you two don't get along. :) (line from Ann Nelson to Elaine and Te
d Striker)
[cid:image001.jpg@01CD8D08.B5562970]<http://www.aveleyman.com/FilmCredit.as
px?FilmID=355>
Mike C.
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Subject: | How would you position the control stick? |
Or would you recommend I just sit in it and put the stick at a "neutral feeling"
position for me? (That makes the most sense.)
Jim--exactly. I would do just what you described above. No needs to bend the
stick or move it forward or aft. Glad to hear
of your excellent progress!
And the 'circle' of movement for a Pietenpol stick is plenty big, even if you have
big thighs (like us full figured girls) if you build
the horns and control system to plans---what I'm saying is there is plenty of room
for "throw" as-designed. The only time I use
full throw is when taxiing in a strong crosswind or in full flare on landings.
Mike C.
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Subject: | Re: two niceset guys you'd ever want to meet |
Don't forgot Curt's daughter....well mannered and enthusiastic.....dunno
where she gets it from. ;-)
Ryan
On Sep 7, 2012 1:59 PM, "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]"
<michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote:
> Curt Merdan and Don Emch. Two of the most pleasant people I've ever had
> the pleasure of meeting****
>
> at Brodhead. ****
>
> ** **
>
> Shame you two don't get along. :) (line from Ann Nelson to Elaine and
> Ted Striker) ****
>
> ** **
>
> [image: Description:
> http://www.wearysloth.com/Gallery/ActorsN/12726-355.jpg]<http://www.aveleyman.com/FilmCredit.aspx?FilmID=355>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> Mike C.****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
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Subject: | How would you position the control stick? |
Great, thanks!
-----Original Message-----
>From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
>Sent: Sep 7, 2012 2:21 PM
>To: "pietenpol-list@matronics.com" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: How would you position the control stick?
>
>
>Or would you recommend I just sit in it and put the stick at a "neutral feeling"
position for me? (That makes the most sense.)
>
>
>Jim--exactly. I would do just what you described above. No needs to bend the
stick or move it forward or aft. Glad to hear
>of your excellent progress!
>
>And the 'circle' of movement for a Pietenpol stick is plenty big, even if you
have big thighs (like us full figured girls) if you build
>the horns and control system to plans---what I'm saying is there is plenty of
room for "throw" as-designed. The only time I use
>full throw is when taxiing in a strong crosswind or in full flare on landings.
>
>Mike C.
>
>
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Subject: | two niceset guys you'd ever want to meet |
The only person I know who is NICER than Don or Curt is Larry Williams:)
Mike C.
Too bad he's not on the list and out flying those powered deathtrap parachu
tes somewhere over Maui to vent his frustrations
over Snowflakes and GN-1 builders and non-purists. Poor guy worked himsel
f up into an Bernie Ulcer.
And as long as I've had too much coffee, has ANYONE ever seen a picture of
Bernie (okay Bernard for those of you who take offense to me
calling him Bernie) smiling? Maybe after building 26 airplanes I would
n't be smiling much either. Think of all the wood slivers and
near-death experiences?
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Subject: | Re: two niceset guys you'd ever want to meet |
Good point Mike! I think I saw a picture of him once where he was just starting
to work up a smile. It's gotta have something to do with building that many
airplanes.
Someday when I grow up I want to be just like Larry Williams. He's about as classy
and nice as they come!
Don Emch
NX899DE
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Subject: | Re: two niceset guys you'd ever want to meet |
Larry Williams really is a peach of a guy Don---he just likes to try to come across
on the list as a grumpy old
man. He doesn't do a very convincing job of it....too nice!
Mike C.
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Subject: | Re: two niceset guys you'd ever want to meet |
Larry likes to amuse himself and I think acting as the Top Curmudgeon is lots of
fun to him!
Don Emch
NX899DE
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Subject: | Re: How would you position the control stick? |
I've been stop to stop a few times about tree top level into and out of fields
(surrounded by trees) on gusty days, but see no reason that just centered is anything
other than you'd want (side to side).
I had to rerig the ailerons once and got the stick out of centered and it bothered
me IMMEDIATELY, but was an easy fix.
Otherwise, I'd sit in it and see where neutral feels good for you (fore and aft).
Then trim the plane to where that's actually the case. Maybe a slight forward
bent stick might be advantageous for some folks. You DEFINITELY want full
aft available. I lost some with a experimental seat cushion... not good. Another
easy fix.
BETTER YET, go get a ride! Seriously. When I bought Dick N's NX2RN, I was ready
to cancel the deal as soon as I sat in it. Thought there was NO WAY I could
operate that rudder bar. Then he let me taxi it and that saved the deal. Was
no problem, but that wasn't obvious by just sitting.
If you're gonna cross country at all, a nice comfortable neutral is a good thing...
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Subject: | Re: How would you position the control stick? |
I would say you need more up than down, if you need to move the stick forward a
bit... Only use down of any significance to get the tailwheel off the ground.
And doing that early never worked out well for me, meaning if you have enough
speed, don't need that much throw.
FWIW
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Subject: | two niceset guys you'd ever want to meet |
Then, lucky me! I'm meeting Curt for breakfast tomorrow!!
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael
D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 11:55 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: two niceset guys you'd ever want to meet
Curt Merdan and Don Emch. Two of the most pleasant people I've ever had
the pleasure of meeting
at Brodhead.
Shame you two don't get along. :) (line from Ann Nelson to Elaine and Ted
Striker)
<http://www.aveleyman.com/FilmCredit.aspx?FilmID=355> Description:
http://www.wearysloth.com/Gallery/ActorsN/12726-355.jpg
Mike C.
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Subject: | Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 |
The plugs get fouled because shutting off with the throttle closed is
the equivalent of about 12 blades of priming. I shut off with the mag
switch, but advance the throttle at the same time to avoid that problem.
Ben
On 9/7/2012 11:28 AM, Ryan Mueller wrote:
> You're at idle when you turn off the mags, not bringing in much fuel
> for a few seconds, how would that contribute to flooding?
>
> How do plugs get fouled if they are not sparking for a few seconds?
>
> Sure, if you turn off the fuel and want to wait until the engine
> consumes the fuel in the bowl and dies, go ahead. Or just have SB 73
> done to the carb, and don't worry about it.
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 10:09 AM, dgaldrich <dgaldrich@embarqmail.com
> <mailto:dgaldrich@embarqmail.com>> wrote:
>
> <dgaldrich@embarqmail.com <mailto:dgaldrich@embarqmail.com>>
>
> I seem to recall a knowledgeable person (the guy on the Bower's
> list??) positing that flooding was caused by using the mags to
> shut the engine down. Because the engine is still sucking fuel,
> the plugs get fouled. He suggested shutting the engine down using
> a fuel shutoff valve close to the carb fuel supply and opening the
> throttle as it dies to get more air through. Also has the
> advantage of stopping any dripping due to float level issues.
> Something to think...
>
> Dave
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382596#382596
>
>
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> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ==========
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> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
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>
>
> *
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
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