---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 09/15/12: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:26 AM - Re: Update (Don Emch) 2. 02:39 PM - Jeff's external aileron cables (nightmare) 3. 02:46 PM - Chick Magnet is Kicking In (Gary Boothe) 4. 02:52 PM - need help deciding on powerplant (nightmare) 5. 02:52 PM - need help deciding on powerplant (nightmare) 6. 03:07 PM - Re: need help deciding on powerplant (Gary Boothe) 7. 03:22 PM - Re: need help deciding on powerplant (Ryan Mueller) 8. 03:46 PM - Re: need help deciding on powerplant (IT Girl) 9. 04:06 PM - Re: need help deciding on powerplant (IT Girl) 10. 04:51 PM - Re: Re: need help deciding on powerplant (Ken Bickers) 11. 06:13 PM - Re: need help deciding on powerplant (Pietn38b@aol.com) 12. 06:21 PM - flop (Daniel Engelkenjohn) 13. 06:47 PM - Re: Re: need help deciding on powerplant (Jack Phillips) 14. 06:55 PM - Re: flop (Ryan Mueller) 15. 07:06 PM - Re: Re: need help deciding on powerplant (Ryan Mueller) 16. 07:18 PM - Re: need help deciding on powerplant (IT Girl) 17. 09:20 PM - Re: need help deciding on powerplant (nightmare) 18. 09:43 PM - Re: need help deciding on powerplant (K5YAC) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:26:49 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Update From: "Don Emch" Jeff, Very, very nice. I love the look. Didn't you start building that thing like... last month!? And yes... Welcome to the Green and Cream Team! Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383161#383161 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:39:17 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jeff's external aileron cables From: "nightmare" Are there any plans/drawings on that external aileron setup? Thanks; Paul Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383188#383188 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:46:02 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Chick Magnet is Kicking In Gary Boothe NX308MB ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:52:24 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: need help deciding on powerplant From: "nightmare" I may be flip flopping. Lately have been leaning heavily towards a Continental. from a65 to 0200. I'm trying to keep an open mind and wanted some opinions on the Corvair. What could i expect to spend on the lower horsepower corvair with no starter, alternator. Just bare bones, hand propping action. the only splurge would be to put the other cam in it so it turns the "right" way. And i would be doing all the work myself. I'm going to talk to the folks over at flycorvair.com, but i also wanted some real Piet builders opinions. Thanks; Paul -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383191#383191 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:52:31 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: need help deciding on powerplant From: "nightmare" I may be flip flopping. Lately have been leaning heavily towards a Continental. from a65 to 0200. I'm trying to keep an open mind and wanted some opinions on the Corvair. What could i expect to spend on the lower horsepower corvair with no starter, alternator. Just bare bones, hand propping action. the only splurge would be to put the other cam in it so it turns the "right" way. And i would be doing all the work myself. I'm going to talk to the folks over at flycorvair.com, but i also wanted some real Piet builders opinions. Thanks; Paul -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383190#383190 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:07:58 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: need help deciding on powerplant Paul, Just my humble opinion.... Do not sell short the starter/alternator combo, for several reasons: 1) You're only talking about a few hundred dollars; 2) The corvair is not comfortable to prop (I've done it...compression occurs at a lower position); 3) The safety factor is HUGE! William Wynne will tell you the same thing. As for which way the prop turns...I'm elated that my prop spins the same way as a Spitfire!! Stop flip/flopping, sign up for the next Corvair College in Barnwell, SC, and get on with your project. Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nightmare Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 2:52 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: need help deciding on powerplant --> I may be flip flopping. Lately have been leaning heavily towards a Continental. from a65 to 0200. I'm trying to keep an open mind and wanted some opinions on the Corvair. What could i expect to spend on the lower horsepower corvair with no starter, alternator. Just bare bones, hand propping action. the only splurge would be to put the other cam in it so it turns the "right" way. And i would be doing all the work myself. I'm going to talk to the folks over at flycorvair.com, but i also wanted some real Piet builders opinions. Thanks; Paul -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383191#383191 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:22:00 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: need help deciding on powerplant From: Ryan Mueller Well, I started typing, but Gary beat me too it....so I'll just have to say: I concur. There's zero point in reversing the rotation. Having hand-propped a Corvair (not even a fresh engine, it was the Last Original before the rebuild): no thank you. So much nicer to be able to just climb in and push a button. The starter is well worth the money. And why bother worrying about having to charge a battery to power your ignition? On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 5:07 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: > > Paul, > > Just my humble opinion.... > > Do not sell short the starter/alternator combo, for several reasons: > > 1) You're only talking about a few hundred dollars; > 2) The corvair is not comfortable to prop (I've done it...compression > occurs > at a lower position); > 3) The safety factor is HUGE! William Wynne will tell you the same thing. > > As for which way the prop turns...I'm elated that my prop spins the same > way > as a Spitfire!! > > Stop flip/flopping, sign up for the next Corvair College in Barnwell, SC, > and get on with your project. > > Gary Boothe > NX308MB > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nightmare > Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 2:52 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: need help deciding on powerplant > > --> > > I may be flip flopping. Lately have been leaning heavily towards a > Continental. from a65 to 0200. I'm trying to keep an open mind and wanted > some opinions on the Corvair. > What could i expect to spend on the lower horsepower corvair with no > starter, alternator. Just bare bones, hand propping action. the only > splurge > would be to put the other cam in it so it turns the "right" way. And i > would > be doing all the work myself. I'm going to talk to the folks over at > flycorvair.com, but i also wanted some real Piet builders opinions. > Thanks; > Paul > > -------- > Paul Donahue > Started 8-3-12 > do not archive > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383191#383191 > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:46:17 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: need help deciding on powerplant From: "IT Girl" Here Here!! -------- Shelley Tumino IT Girl wife of "Axel" NX899KP DO NOT ARCHIVE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383195#383195 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:06:01 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: need help deciding on powerplant From: "IT Girl" Here is the thing. Your power plant choice is really your own. You will get strong opinions here from everyone, based on their personal choice. Bottom line it is your decision. Talk with some of the guys about the flight characteristics you need, and the geographic locations where you will do the most flying. You will come to a decision about what powerplant is right for you, based on your needs and your budget. For example, if you are leaning toward a certified engine, you are probably looking at an immediate outlay of expense in a lump sum, where building a corvair can be done piecemeal as you can afford it. An added benefit is that you built it, you know how it is put together, and can likely fix it when it needs maintenance (my opinion). Grace and William at FLycorvair will guide you through the process with the corvair, but they will not guide you to any specific powerplant either. If you are able, please come to CC24 in Barnwell, SC. Many people come to Corvair College to help make their decision about power plants. If you cant make CC24, we will be hosting a Corvair College in Spring of 2014 in Austin, TX Good luck. -------- Shelley Tumino IT Girl wife of "Axel" NX899KP DO NOT ARCHIVE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383196#383196 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:51:55 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: need help deciding on powerplant From: Ken Bickers Shelley, I can't make it to Barnwell for the upcoming Corvair College, but will try my damndest to get to Austin for the one in the spring. Do you have dates, even tentative ones, yet for the Austin CC? Thanks, Ken On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 5:05 PM, IT Girl wrote: > > Here is the thing. Your power plant choice is really your own. You will get strong opinions here from everyone, based on their personal choice. Bottom line it is your decision. Talk with some of the guys about the flight characteristics you need, and the geographic locations where you will do the most flying. You will come to a decision about what powerplant is right for you, based on your needs and your budget. > > For example, if you are leaning toward a certified engine, you are probably looking at an immediate outlay of expense in a lump sum, where building a corvair can be done piecemeal as you can afford it. An added benefit is that you built it, you know how it is put together, and can likely fix it when it needs maintenance (my opinion). > > Grace and William at FLycorvair will guide you through the process with the corvair, but they will not guide you to any specific powerplant either. > > If you are able, please come to CC24 in Barnwell, SC. Many people come to Corvair College to help make their decision about power plants. If you cant make CC24, we will be hosting a Corvair College in Spring of 2014 in Austin, TX > Good luck. > > -------- > Shelley Tumino > IT Girl > wife of "Axel" > NX899KP > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383196#383196 > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:13:55 PM PST US From: Pietn38b@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: need help deciding on powerplant Paul I now have three corvair powered aircraft. The one in my piet is a plane-jane Pietenpol conversion. I have had no trouble with hand propping although since I put starters on the other two I have decided to put a starter on the Piet in the furture. I also hand propped the DA-2A for the first 500 hrs also. Even though I really like the corvairs the little continentals are hard to beat in a Piet, I've flown both. Jim Ballew. In a message dated 9/15/2012 4:52:35 P.M. Central Daylight Time, pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com writes: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "nightmare" I may be flip flopping. Lately have been leaning heavily towards a Continental. from a65 to 0200. I'm trying to keep an open mind and wanted some opinions on the Corvair. What could i expect to spend on the lower horsepower corvair with no starter, alternator. Just bare bones, hand propping action. the only splurge would be to put the other cam in it so it turns the "right" way. And i would be doing all the work myself. I'm going to talk to the folks over at flycorvair.com, but i also wanted some real Piet builders opinions. Thanks; Paul -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383191#383191 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:21:21 PM PST US From: "Daniel Engelkenjohn" Subject: Pietenpol-List: flop Are there any plans or dimensions for a center section flop available? Dennis ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:47:27 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: need help deciding on powerplant -----Original Message----- For example, if you are leaning toward a certified engine, you are probably looking at an immediate outlay of expense in a lump sum, where building a corvair can be done piecemeal as you can afford it. An added benefit is that you built it, you know how it is put together, and can likely fix it when it needs maintenance (my opinion). Not necessarily true. I bought my Continental A65 as a box of parts, for $1500. Two years later I bought new Millenium cylinders for it. A year later I sent the crankshaft and the crankcase out for overhaul and bought a new camshaft. A year later I assembled everything. Total cost $7,500 for a zero time vertified aircraft engine - very little more than a full-up Corvair conversion with the fifth bearing. As Shelley said, the deciding factor should be the type of flying you expect to do and the terrain you will be flying over. Will you be flying out of short strips with tall trees? If so you may need more power and opt for a Corvair, or an O-200 or O-235. One thing to remember in choosing is how easy it may be to get service if you have a problem away from home. Most aircraft repair shops will not touch an auto engine conversion, so while you might be able to repair a Corvair or Ford very inexensively, you may not be able to repair it at all when on a trip. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:55:07 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: flop From: Ryan Mueller The flop is in the F&G Manual plans, but not in the later full size plans. It's offset to the left in the original one piece wing plans, which would make sense since you are stepping up and in from the left side. With the three piece you either just flop the trailing portion of the center section, or figure out how you might want to work out an offset portion to the left. Part of the fun! [image: Inline image 1] On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 8:23 PM, Daniel Engelkenjohn wrote: > Are there any plans or dimensions for a center section flop available? > > Dennis > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:06:02 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: need help deciding on powerplant From: Ryan Mueller Just to play devil's advocate, 8 years ago you majored a 65HP aircraft engine for $7500 (and odds are that price has not gone down, probably not stayed the same, maybe increased a bit).....as opposed to the Corvair at roughly the same price today, delivering 100HP.... But then it is 65HP to 100HP, and aircraft to auto conversion, so kind of apples and oranges ;-) On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 8:47 PM, Jack Phillips wrote: > pietflyr@bellsouth.net> > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > For example, if you are leaning toward a certified engine, you are probably > looking at an immediate outlay of expense in a lump sum, where building a > corvair can be done piecemeal as you can afford it. An added benefit is > that you built it, you know how it is put together, and can likely fix it > when it needs maintenance (my opinion). > > Not necessarily true. I bought my Continental A65 as a box of parts, for > $1500. Two years later I bought new Millenium cylinders for it. A year > later I sent the crankshaft and the crankcase out for overhaul and bought a > new camshaft. A year later I assembled everything. Total cost $7,500 for > a > zero time vertified aircraft engine - very little more than a full-up > Corvair conversion with the fifth bearing. > > As Shelley said, the deciding factor should be the type of flying you > expect > to do and the terrain you will be flying over. Will you be flying out of > short strips with tall trees? If so you may need more power and opt for a > Corvair, or an O-200 or O-235. > > One thing to remember in choosing is how easy it may be to get service if > you have a problem away from home. Most aircraft repair shops will not > touch an auto engine conversion, so while you might be able to repair a > Corvair or Ford very inexensively, you may not be able to repair it at all > when on a trip. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:18:10 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: need help deciding on powerplant From: "IT Girl" It will be Spring of 2014 Ken. Kevin is doing really well, but I have military obligations this spring that will have me out of the house for a month, and I can't leave him to do it all alone. We also want to have a fuselage built to put our engine on for the CC. So pencil us in for March of 2014. bickers.ken(at)gmail.com wrote: > Shelley, I can't make it to Barnwell for the upcoming Corvair College, > but will try my damndest to get to Austin for the one in the spring. > Do you have dates, even tentative ones, yet for the Austin CC? > Thanks, Ken > > On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 5:05 PM, IT Girl wrote: > > > > > > > Here is the thing. Your power plant choice is really your own. You will get strong opinions here from everyone, based on their personal choice. Bottom line it is your decision. Talk with some of the guys about the flight characteristics you need, and the geographic locations where you will do the most flying. You will come to a decision about what powerplant is right for you, based on your needs and your budget. > > > > For example, if you are leaning toward a certified engine, you are probably looking at an immediate outlay of expense in a lump sum, where building a corvair can be done piecemeal as you can afford it. An added benefit is that you built it, you know how it is put together, and can likely fix it when it needs maintenance (my opinion). > > > > Grace and William at FLycorvair will guide you through the process with the corvair, but they will not guide you to any specific powerplant either. > > > > If you are able, please come to CC24 in Barnwell, SC. Many people come to Corvair College to help make their decision about power plants. If you cant make CC24, we will be hosting a Corvair College in Spring of 2014 in Austin, TX > > Good luck. > > > > -------- > > Shelley Tumino > > IT Girl > > wife of "Axel" > > NX899KP > > > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383196#383196 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------- Shelley Tumino IT Girl wife of "Axel" NX899KP DO NOT ARCHIVE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383206#383206 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:20:34 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: need help deciding on powerplant From: "nightmare" This is good stuff guys and girl. i just assumed the corvair was just as easy as the cont s hand propping, but looks like maybe not so. The gradual emptying of my wallet rather than dumping it all out at once, is something to think about. even though i dont know much about either, i have done complete rebuilds of auto engines in the past, so i think i could handle working on either one. the cost of rebuilding the cont vs the corvair is pretty amazing. i'll obviously be doing more research on my own to make a decision, but just these few responses were very helpful. thank you ; Paul -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383208#383208 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:43:27 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: need help deciding on powerplant From: "K5YAC" What Gary said. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage and Fuse framed up - Working on Landing Gear Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383209#383209 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.